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Episode 166: HubSpot vs MailChimp, plus social robots

Welcome to Episode 166 of HubShots!

HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

We hope you enjoy the podcast as much as HubSpot’s CEO, Brian Halligan does.

This episode we chat about HubSpot’s decision to include basic email sends in HubSpot free, plus Social Robots.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/166-hubspot-vs-mailchimp-plus-social-robots/

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD3Uo4X-IxPJLE8ygPDQhNQ

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Recorded: Thursday 18 July 2019 | Published: Friday 26 July 2019

Shot 1: Inbound Thought of the Week

Thinking about ‘temporal subscriptions’ thanks to the This Old Marketing podcast (which returned this week – we chat about the podcast further in shot 7).

Temporal subscription behaviour is becoming more common – it’s the tendency to just subscribe temporarily eg subscribe to Netflix for just a series (eg Stranger Things) and then cancel. It’s the drop in and out mentality.

Worth considering in your industries – even if you are a B2B business – because all purchase behaviour eventually follows personal (consumer) behavior. Start planning for it now.

More on this:


See also:


Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

HubSpot has enabled sending up to 2000 emails in the free accounts



Here’s what you’ll see the first time you go into Emails in a free Marketing Hub account:

Marketing Email   HubSpot

I wonder how concerned is about this getting abused by spammers – I’m guessing plenty:


Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week


Apparently the What’s New report is considered a dashboard report…

One we like is the Average Time to Respond Over Time

You can measure how quickly team members are responding to tickets over time. This report displays the average time it takes users to send an email reply to a ticket once it has been created, and compares this to the previous time period.

Screen Shot 2019 07 05 at 9.23.44 PM

Shot 4: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

Issues with turning a form in a template into a smart form.

You’re in a template, that has a section with form eg a Contact Us area. You want to make the form into a smart form (eg to switch out the form based on a list).

In the template it doesn’t give you the option to make it smart:

Design Manager   HubSpot and Hubspot Advanced Implementation Certification 1

However, according to the KB article it should:


On to HubSpot Support, and Steve on chat – 15 mins later he’s given me a workaround:

  • Add a second form module, but make sure you select a default Form

It shows the option to make the form smart

Design Manager   HubSpot and Hubspot Advanced Implementation Certification

Use this second module, and delete the first module

Probably a bug – but that’s the workaround for now.

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

Track how many visits you are getting from Google My Business


Shot 6: Insight of the Week


Want to highlight 2 things from this report:

  1. Social Robots

WEF Top 10 Emerging Technologies 2019 Report pdf

Like most robots, social robots use artificial intelligence (AI) to decide how to act on information received through cameras and other sensors.

Worldwide sales of consumer robots reached an estimated $5.6 billion in 2018 and the market is expected to grow to $19 billion by the end of 2025, with more than 65 million robots sold a year.

There is a wave of robots like BUDDY (Blue Frog Robotics), a big-eyed mobile device that plays

games in addition to acting as a personal assistant and providing home automation and security.

2. Collaborative Telepresence

WEF Top 10 Emerging Technologies 2019 Report pdf 1

Although collaborative telepresence is still very much emerging, all the pieces are in place for it to become transformative within three to five years.

As the parts are come together, expect to see changes in daily life and work that are as dramatic as those sparked by the widespread adoption of smartphones.

Takeaway: Be aware as these could be other channels to reach your audience as they become more comfortable with AI driven robots and interacting with others in different mediums.

Shot 7: Podcast of the Week

Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose are back with their This Old Marketing Podcast


Shot 8: Resource of the Week

Beautiful images

https://unsplash.com/ – The internet’s source of freely useable images.   Not like stock photos!

Shot 9: Quote of the Week

“The secret of getting ahead is getting started.” -Mark Twain

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week

Interesting form layout choice of the week:

Hubspot Advanced Implementation Certification

Why have email as a small third field and the employee dropdown as so large?




Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

HubShots Episode 166: HubSpot vs MailChimp, plus social robots

Episode 166 Transcript

– [Ian] Welcome to HubShots Episode 166. We talk about HubSpot versus MailChimp, plus social robots. Do listen to Asia-Pacific’s number one HubSpot-focus podcast where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks, features, and strategies for growing your marketing and sales results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. How are you, Craig?

– [Craig] Well! Looking forward to hearing about social robots. And I know that part is, I’ve got some myself resource you’ve pulled out for later in the show.

– [Ian] that’s right. It’s from emerging technologies report in 2019 but we will talk about that shortly. All right, Craig. Onto our Inbound Thought of The Week.

– [Craig] I was listening to the This Old Marketing podcast with Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose which is back, just started back this week. Welcome back, guys. After 18 months hiatus. Joe, of course from a CMI Content Marketing Institute. But one of the things that really piqued my interest in the show, we’re all talking about temporal subscriptions. Have you heard this term before?

– No, I haven’t.

– Temporal subscription? It’s basically this behavior whereby people subscribe, they just kinda opt in or opt out at a whim. So, a good example Netflix.

– Okay.

– [Craig] All right, I’m gonna subscribe to Netflix ’cause I wanna watch Stranger Things or I’m gonna subscribe to HBO ’cause I wanna watch the last season of Game of Thrones and then I’m out, so there’s no loyalty, there’s no recurring subscription behavior, and that’s becoming a bit more common. People have their subscriptions. I don’t know about you but we just have subscriptions. They go on, we never cancel them, right? However, it’s becoming much more than norm where people are temporal. And so I thought this was really interesting behavior, trend, probably starting in the States. We’re probably not seeing it here for another couple of years in Australia but I was thinking about that in all businesses, not only our own agency which of course we don’t lock people into contracts. If they’re a retainer, they can stop at any time, move up and down, so that’s definitely something that we’ve been doing for a while and I know a lot of other agencies do. However, when I think of our clients and even HubSpot, if you think, they often try and lock people in for years at a time, annual renewals and things like that. A couple years from now, it’s just not gonna be the way. Everything will be months to months or cancel anytime with no downside by the way. I actually asked Netflix about this. I said, “Can I cancel? “Will I lose all my lists and watch them?” They go, no, no. Just cancel but when you re-subscribe, all your data will still be there. You’ll pick up where you left off.

– Really?

– Yeah. I was like, wow that’s a really good experience. And, well, I’ve got no intention to cancel in Netflix anytime soon but if I did, that’s kinda one of the fears you have, right? They kinda lock you in with that kind of–

– [Ian] It’s like you’ve been canceled and restarting, isn’t it?

– [Craig] Yeah, but that kind of they lock you in so that you don’t wanna lose that data, and then you’re not watching. Anyway, I think the tide has turned and this is what’s gonna happen for industries and/or big B-to-B industries and things like that, it’ll be there because it starts with personal behavior, i.e. consumer behavior and that pushes through to B-to-B as well so just because you’re in B-to-B, don’t think that it won’t affect you in the future.

– You’re immune.

– Yeah, exactly.

– [Ian] All right. Onto our HubSpot Marketing Feature Week, Craig. And this is where we’re talking about HubSpot enabling email sending to their marketing free accounts and how does that go with MailChimp.

– [Craig] Right, so we’re not actually gonna talk about the news that they’ve released this in their free accounts ’cause they’ve been doing a great job of blasting that everywhere.

– [Ian] Yes, they certainly are.

– [Craig] Yes, you cannot avoid the news, right? So if you’re listening to this podcast, we’re not assuming this is news to you. You are well aware of this. But what I thought was fascinating about it was just that they’ve really taken over the ground that MailChimp has had for the last decade and has just decided to move out of with their free plan. They’ve really locked that down, reduced features, all that kinda thing. And HubSpot, it seems, have just said oh, right, oh well. Will do.

– We’ll walk in there.

– [Craig] We’ll take that over, thanks. And so well, great job. That whole freemium models worked really well for MailChimp and HubSpot just there from the free right up through to the enterprise space, I think they’re really well-positioned for this. The thing that I thought interesting is if you look at the video, and there’s Kyle Jepson doing a talk about how good it is for sales. By the way, have you noticed they’ve pushed it on the CRM side?

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] They’re not pushing it on the marketing side.

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] HubSpot marketing free. Why aren’t they? That’s interesting. They’re pushing their sales angle. Anyway, that says CRM plus email and it works in marketing free so it’s not as specific to a CRM side. But anyway, maybe they don’t wanna be so blatant that they’re going up against MailChimp, I don’t know. But interesting when Kyle Jepson’s doing the video, talking about it, he spends a minute and a half talking about he must have permission.

– That’s exactly right.

– For your email, and you know what? It’s just because this is spammer’s paradise. The number of people that are just gonna spin up these HubSpot free accounts, just import dodgy lists, spam them out, don’t get banned, of course. HubSpot will cut down that.

– Yes, and they’ve actually said that.

– HubSpot will cut down–

– And you know what’s really interesting?

– Yeah.

– Well, like Kyle was saying was that just because you may have exhibited at a conference for example, right, and you sponsored it so you actually get access to the listing. They’ve said, look, you might hear from our sponsors. You cannot even load that in and send emails from HubSpot. No, obviously you could load it in because you might wanna contact them and keep the interaction but you actually can’t email them out of HubSpot.

– [Craig] Well, I don’t know if I necessarily agree with that because the implied consent is that, I mean, you’ve gotta check. This is not legal advice, folks. You’ve gotta check in your particular area.

– That’s right.

– But certainly here in Australia, there’s an implied consent component and if you have opted in, you have, in a conference then theoretically, you should be allowed to do that. Whether that’s a good idea or not, I’m not suggesting it’s a good idea and we’ve discussed this on the show in the past as well because frankly if people are not expecting to hear from you, they’re gonna mark you as spam anyway but does that mean you’re not allowed to do it? I don’t know. And I think HubSpot’s, I think they’re just being overly protective because they know it’s gonna get, they know this is gonna get abused, right?

– Correct. Well, you know very well the more you make someone aware of something not to do them, the likelihood they are probably to be very cautious with doing anything of that nature because they are aware of the consequences.

– [Craig] Well, I hope so because you know my fear. I was thinking, well, I hope our pro and enterprise accounts are on the same IP addresses because these free accounts are gonna get marked as spam so badly by a lot of the email tools out there so I hope that doesn’t impinge on our pro accounts.

– [Ian] Yeah. Anyway, so if you’re using CRM or you’ve got marketing free, go and try out the email marketing part within the system. All right. Onto our HubSpot Sales Feature of The Week, Craig. We’re gonna highlight a blog post that talks about six simple HubSpot reports your dashboard needs. And there are lots of reports on there. There was one that I saw, and this is not specifically sales-related but I think would be good in terms of response but this is actually a report that’s average time to respond over time and this is actually responding to tickets. So it’s not directly sales-related but it’s service-related and obviously, sales could be using tickets as well. But then report displays the average time it takes users to send an email reply to a ticket once it’s been created and compares it to the previous time period. I thought that was an interesting report which I’d actually never seen, and there are five others that you could add. So I wanted to highlight that. All right, onto the HubSpot Question of The Week, Craig.

– [Craig] All right, quite a quirky little one that I banged heads against today.

– [Ian] No, yes.

– [Craig] So this has to do with templates. This is a page template, web page template, and in the template, there’s a Contact Us section and in that Contact Us section, there’s a form. So we’re in the template, not in the page. It’s a page based on the template but in the template, there’s a form. I wanted that form to be a smart form ’cause I wanted to switch out the form based on criteria, based on at least strength. Anyway, I couldn’t do it and there was no option to make it smart. We’ve got a link to the knowledge base, you should be able to do it. Well, I could make rich text fields smart.

– Could.

– Anyway, I couldn’t get this sorted and you tested it in your portal ’cause that’s how it is, isn’t it?

– Couldn’t get it to do that.

– [Craig] Anyway, what we did, straight onto HubSpot Support on the chat. By the way, their chat, this is the same I think we mentioned as the last show. Their chat support is really good.

– [Ian] It is.

– [Craig] Anyways, Steve from HubSpot Support’s on there. Took him about 15 minutes, I have to say, so he wasn’t a quick fix which is good ’cause I always worry I’ve done something stupid. Anyways, but he comes back. Anyway, it looks like it’s a bug but there’s a workaround and so the workaround he gave me is you actually add a second form on there in that template module and that one you have to have selected a form by default in there.

– Correct.

– [Craig] You can make that smart and then you delete the first form. So very weird, very bizarre, but that’s the workaround so if there’s one or two people who are running into this and they hear this on the show, they’ll think this is just amazing timing ’cause yeah, I’d say it’s a bug and hopefully it’ll get fixed but yeah, if you’re wondering about smart forms and templates, there you go.

– [Ian] So Craig, I just wanna say, what is one reason why you would use a smart form in a template?

– [Craig] So let’s say you’ve got a Contact Us section, let’s say it’s in the footer of most pages, so you’ve made this probably a global section, global module, and so the form in there, you might wanna switch it out if you know the person versus an anonymous user.

– Correct.

– [Craig] So if it’s someone that you know and that’s a form, might be welcome back, I just made this or if it’s someone new, it might ask for a whole bunch of details, you could do that with the progressive form fills as well. The other thing you can do is show entirely different forms and so here’s an example. You might show a different form based on their–

– Life cycle stage.

– Life cycle stage but I was gonna say mobile versus desktop, might have a cut-down form, something like that. You might have different layouts, those kinds of things.

– [Ian] Yeah, or they come from a social channel for example. That could be another instance where we would have that.

– [Craig] That’s a good one. Now, I’ve got a little hack that I’m, well, not a hack.

– Well, we’re testing it out.

– A little use case. I’m getting a lot of spam from a certain country and so what I’m doing with my smart forms is if the traffic comes from a certain country, I actually switch out a form.

– [Ian] You give it a new better form, don’t you?

– [Craig] I give them a form that doesn’t have an email address. They can still submit it but because of most things in HubSpot, it doesn’t create a contact, doesn’t waste my time creating a contact. So basically, the people from this country see a form, they think they’re submitting it, does nothing, I don’t get a notification–

– They get a thank-you page?

– They get a thank-you page.

– And they’re working around.

– It doesn’t! Doesn’t clog up HubSpot with contacts that I have to go in and delete.

– [Ian] You just saved yourself a contact there, Craig.

– [Craig] Oh, yep.

– [Ian] Anyway, that’s just one of the use cases we’re testing.

– [Craig] There’s one case, yeah, it’s great.

– [Ian] All right, Craig. Now onto our Marketing Tip of The Week and how to track visits you gain from Google My Business. Now, we talk about Google My Business because it keeps getting better and better by the month and this has to do with adding tracking URLs so you can actually tell the traffic, better you can filter out your traffic from Google My Business and you would do this across, if you’re running campaigns in HubSpot, you’d use the URL.

– [Craig] You could use that yeah. But basically, it’s creating the parameters, putting them on the URL that you then use in Google My Business.

– Okay.

– So yeah, it’s just talking about tracking. I think it’s really interesting. And also, you can do for different tracking parts in the Google My Business profile so if it’s from an event.

– Correct!

– [Craig] Versus if it’s just a normal listing URL.

– That’s correct.

– Really useful.

– [Ian] All right, Craig. Onto our Insight of The Week.

– [Craig] All right, now tell me, what’s all this social robots?

– [Ian] So this is a report I came across and this is from the World Economic Forum, right? So they’ve actually created this report and it’s The Top 10 Emerging Technologies of 2019. They call it an insight report to go with our Insights of The Week, Craig. The foreword is from the editor-in-chief and she’s from the group of Springer Nature and so it’s a research company and then there’s also the chief innovation officer of IBM, and so they sought to create this to see what technologies are poised to rattle the status quo in 2019. Look, I’ll read what the top 10 that they have come up with. Number one, bioplastics for a circular economy. Number two is social robots. Let’s certainly talk about that in a second. Number three, tiny lenses for miniature devices. Number four, disordered proteins as drug targets. Number five, smart fertilizers can reduce environmental contamination. Number six is collaborative telepresence which I’m gonna talk about as well. Next one is advanced food tracking and packaging. Again, tracking and using that data. Number eight, safe nuclear reactors. I’m not gonna go there. Number nine, DNA storage. And number 10, utility scales, storage of renewable energy. So I mean, a lot of this is well, we’re very much aware of, right?

– [Craig] Well, I wouldn’t know. I wouldn’t say I was very much aware of this and before you go on, I just wanted to say, when you first put this in the show night, so I was like, what on earth has this got to do with marketing? Here’s what I found fascinating because it shows what a bubble I live in because I think oh, emerging technologies, oh, that’ll be something with Uber and Airbnb, right? Or what’s happening in a marketing sect, like that’s my role!

– That’s exactly right because that’s where we live in.

– [Craig] And I saw things like, what’s smart fertilizers? What’s going on here? And tiny little lenses, and all these, I was like, wow, this is actually really good for these are the things they’re actually making impact on the world.

– Correct.

– [Craig] Not some new Bitcoin or currency. Yeah, these are things that are actually having major impacts on the globe and wellbeing of billions of people potentially.

– [Ian] That’s right. So I wanna highlight social robots, right? And they say it’s your droid friends and assistants penetrating deeper into our lives, and so they’re saying like most robots, social robots use artificial intelligence. Now, we spoke about artificial intelligence in a few episodes previously to decide how to act on information he receives through cameras and other senses. Now, worldwide sales of consumer robots reached an estimated 5.6 billion in 2018 and the market is expected to grow to 19 billion by the end of 2025 with more than 65 million robots sold a year. There is a wave of robots, one of them named Buddy by Blue Frog Robotics, a big-eyed mobile device that plays games in addition to acting as a personal assistant and providing home automation and security. So I wanted to highlight this ’cause we’re kind of halfway there here. So there are already robots doing something. I’m sure a lot of our listeners probably have things like Amazon Alexa, they’re using Siri everyday, or if they’re not, the kids are using Siri everyday and we’re well on the way here so this is taking that to the next step in how they can assist us.

– [Craig] So where’s the crossover from, say, assistance like Alexa versus robots? What’s the difference? And in particular, when it said 65 million robots sold a year, I’m like what is a robot? What’s a consumer robot? I imagine that’s not Alexa and those things ’cause there’s hundreds of millions of those.

– [Ian] Yeah, exactly. So something that moves around, right? One of the things they were talking about is the robots that they’re utilizing in hotels for example that will actually deliver room service.

– [Craig] Oh, right.

– [Ian] So it basically can take a meal to a room, it can see someone open the door, you can interact with them, give them the meal, it can take something back. So it was able to answer a question.

– [Craig] Right, and that’s the social robot?

– Correct.

– Part of the social in the social robot as opposed to just a robot in a factory or I don’t know–

– Exactly.

– [Craig] A warehouse kinda thing.

– [Ian] Yes. And so that’s how they’re saying that this one called Buddy, he’s a big-eyed mobile device that plays games. So he’s one that people are interacting with and providing home automation and security, so. I think what I wanna highlight from that is that you just look at the proliferation of artificial intelligence in different kinds of devices like these social robots that people are gonna interact with and they’re gonna think it’s okay to do that. We might sit here now and laugh at it.

– [Craig] Oh, I wouldn’t. I could totally see that.

– [Ian] Yeah, and you see, as people get comfortable with talking, like I look at my kids and I go, they talk to Siri like it’s a real person.

– Really?

– Yes!

– [Craig] Oh, wow!

– [Ian] And I said, you do realize that you’re talking to a computer but to them, their awareness is not the same.

– [Craig] Right!

– [Ian] So they actually think that Siri is somebody real. They interact with Siri like it was a real person.

– [Craig] Really? And they’re actually getting anything meaningful out of Siri?

– [Ian] Most the time they do.

– Oh, all right.

– They were asking pretty simple questions.

– Okay.

– [Ian] But they are getting and so obviously, if you ask something that Siri just wanna answer, it comes back with a–

– Have fun.

– A response from Siri.

– [Craig] And an exercise in frustration. I can never get anything out of Siri but that’s just–

– [Ian] But this is an interesting thing. It makes me realize that kids are getting so used to that interaction, that really, when we call, look at these social robots come on, it’ll be very natural for them to talk to those devices like they talk to real people, so that’s one. The second one is collaborative telepresence and this is soon participants in virtual gatherings will feel like they are physically together and so they actually say even the collaborative telepresence is still emerging, all the pieces are in place to become transformative within three to five years. And just think about it. That’s not that far away, okay? We’ve had 10 years of iPhone and you see, think about how much that has changed our lives and as the parts come together, expect to see changes in daily life and work that as dramatic as those sparked by the adoption of smartphones. Think about the takeaway here is be aware of these as channels that you can reach your potential audience or interact with them as they become more comfortable with AI-driven robots and interacting on different mediums.

– [Craig] So how would you reach your audience via a social robot?

– [Ian] I don’t know. I’m still working it out, Craig.

– [Craig] I don’t know, it just gives you your dinner and then tells you a promotion, a free promotion.

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] And look, it’s gonna happen like that, and marketers ruin everything as they say, but you can imagine the robot turning, it’s just got you sponsored by.

– [Ian] That’s exactly right.

– [Craig] So you just peel and said that here.

– [Ian] And that’s the thing, I think. You look at all of these things, you just realize it just takes someone to think about it, come up with the idea, and before you know it, everyone’s copying it or has magnificently–

– [Craig] Well, that’s true, but I’m just picking up on the end of that around social robots. For instance, that in addition acting as a personal assistant, providing home automation and security. It just makes me wanna go and watch Robocop again too. Good movies, aren’t they?

– [Ian] So there we have it.

– All right, thanks for that.

– I thought something about broaden insight for them.

– [Craig] Yeah, and that was very good.

– [Ian] All right, we have our Podcast of The Week, Craig.

– [Craig] As we mentioned at the top of show, This Old Marketing is back with Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose and just wonderful listening. Gee, I love that podcast.

– [Ian] So we encourage you to go and have a listen to that. Now we have our Resource of The Week if you would love beautiful images.

– [Craig] So you’ve come across Unsplash?

– [Ian] Yes, I have and I realized you’ve been using it for a long time.

– [Craig] Yeah, I didn’t know. I thought everyone used this, Unsplash.

– [Ian] No, I actually used Adobe Stock for a long time and I still do, but I definitely think that Unsplash will definitely, beyond my top list to be using. And you know what I loved about it? I’ve seen some great images from Unsplash and it’s from photographers globally. It doesn’t look like stock photography.

– No, it doesn’t.

– That’s what I love about it.

– [Craig] Although after a while of using it, you realize some of those images, you see them everywhere.

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] So especially the hipster ones. There’s this one I see everywhere, it’s with this hipster guy at a cafe and all the tech companies use it. You gotta be careful. So use it in Unsplash but you gotta switch them out a couple months later ’cause everyone’s used them by then.

– [Ian] Yeah. So there you go, Unsplash.com. All right, Craig, Quote of The Week.

– [Craig] Let’s run my short one we’ve got in it.

– [Ian] The secret of getting ahead is getting started by Mark Twain. Now, Craig, you’ve got a couple of bonus links of the week.

– [Craig] Yes, a few links in there so we didn’t get time to go through them in the show but I also not only a bonus link but a bonus–

– Screenshot.

– A screenshot of the week which is I think we should have this section called Interesting Form Layout Choices of The Week.

– [Ian] Yes, this is actually a HubSpot from a HubSpot landing page and it’s a really unusual form layout and I’m just not sure.

– [Ian] We’re a bit baffled, aren’t we?

– [Craig] We are baffled, so folks, you can go and have a look at that. Let us know what you think.

– [Ian] We shared it on Instagram. Maybe somebody that was staring at HubSpot got that joke.

– [Craig] He connects we intended that.

– [Ian] We intended that.

– [Craig] I don’t think anything goes out from HubSpot that hasn’t been thought through so I’m assuming there’s thinking behind this. Deliberate choices were made here.

– [Ian] Even if they were unintentional.

– [Craig] Oh, deliberate but unintentional one.

– [Ian] Anyway, listeners, we would love you to leave us some feedback on Apple Podcast, Spotify.

– [Craig] We’re on Spotify now and our YouTube channel has… Look, every episode on our YouTube channel gets ones of views so.

– [Ian] With everything, we’re testing and trialing things out, we are looking at doing more videos so we’d love to hear your feedback. Let us know–

– [Craig] You know what I’m surprised about? Well, people said put it on YouTube, right? And I was like, oh, no one’s gonna listen on YouTube. Well, they do for some big podcasts. They don’t for us. But when we do stuff on Instagram, often it gets a lot more response. I’m like, no one’s gonna respond to that and they do so it just shows test and measure, right?

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] Some channels work better than others.

– [Ian] That’s right, and some channels take a little bit of time to grow so I think with everything, look at how you’re amplifying your content and then focus on what’s working. Well Craig, until next time.

– [Craig] Catch you later, Ian.

– [Ian] Thank you for listening to this episode of HubShots. For show notes, resources, HubSpot News include practical strategies you can implement, visit us at HubShots.com.

Episode 165: Drag and Drop email editor gotcha and workaround, plus Google Analytics Intelligence

Welcome to Episode 165 of HubShots!

Welcome to HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

We hope you enjoy the podcast as much as HubSpot’s CEO, Brian Halligan does.

This episode we revisit the new drag and drop email editor and discover that it doesn’t support CTAs, but there is a workaround. Plus Google’s Analytics Intelligence. And a really simple way to qualify leads to determine if they are sales ready.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/165-drag-and-drop-email-editor-gotcha-and-workaround-plus-google-analytics-intelligence/

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

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Recorded: Tuesday 09 July 2019 | Published: Friday 19 July 2019

Shot 1: Inbound Thought of the Week

Always be helping.


Here is something we encourage everyone to do > Inbound Sales Training

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

A bit more on the new HubSpot email drag and drop editor (following our initial thoughts back in episode 161)

Some good things:

  • Very simple to use and move sections around
  • Simple styling
  • Adding new sections is easy (much nicer than when using the traditional editor eg using repeaters)

Some puzzling things:

  • Can’t natively add CTAs (UPDATE: 24 July 2019 – This is now available as an option in the Button control)
  • Can’t add any html scripts for that matter eg can’t add CTA embed code to try to get around the missing CTA functionality
  • Can’t globally control some basic styling eg line height of paragraphs (although you can do this in each section you add), better styling of links etc

Some solutions:

UPDATE 24 July 2019: This is no longer required – the CTA option is now available in the Button control – however, we’ve left it here as a quick overview of how to create custom modules:

  • To get around the CTA issue, you can create a global email Custom module that will show a CTA (see the code below) and then drag that onto the email. Big thank you to Mun Shuen from Hubspot Support who got this working for me.
  • Here’s the code to add:
    {% cta guid=”{{ module.cta_field }}” %}


  1. Create a local custom module that is used in emails:
    Design Manager   HubSpot 1
  2. Add a CTA field:
    Design Manager   HubSpot
  3. Add the code in the main module code window:
    Design Manager   HubSpot 2
  4. Drag the custom module into your email editor:
    hubspot custom module
  5. Select the CTA to use

Note: the CTA might not render properly in the email editor. However it should render fine when the email is read in the email client.

More updates from June:


Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Be Direct – don’t disguise your intentions

How to determine if leads are sales ready.

Ask on forms: Are you ready to speak to us?


  • Would you like us to call you?
  • Would you like to speak to sales?

Shot 4: Marketing Gotcha of the Week

See above: You can’t put CTA natively into emails using the drag and drop editor.

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

Google Analytics Intelligence

Insights in Google Analytics – just ask questions at the top of the page:

Analytics 1

Use the Analytics Intelligence list on the right hand column to see other suggested insights:

Analytics 2

Shot 6: Insight of the Week

Marketing should do one thing: Build more trust.

That’s a paraphrase of Seth Godin’s approach to marketing.

Ask yourself: Does this ad, article, email, campaign, strategy help people and build more trust in us?

Shot 7: Retirement of the Week

Some social reports are leaving us – two Twitter reports (Timelines and Sent Messages)

Shot 8: Resource of the Week

Understanding all the different Google sections in the search results:


  • Answer boxes
  • How to boxes
  • Knowledge boxes and panels
  • People also ask (PAA)
  • Refine by
  • etc

Shot 9: Quote of the Week

“If you deliberately plan on being less than you are capable of being, then I warn you that you’ll be unhappy the rest of your life.”

Abraham Maslow

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week

Please leave us a simple star rating as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

HubShots Episode 165: Drag and Drop email editor gotcha and workaround, plus Google Analytics Intelligence

Episode 165 Transcript

– [Ian] Welcome to HubShots episode 165. In this episode, we revisit the new drag-and-drop email editor and discover that it doesn’t support CTAs, but there is a workaround. Plus, Google Analytics Intelligence. And a really simple way to qualify leads to determine if they are sales-ready. You’re listening to Asia-Pacific’s number one HubSpot-focused podcast where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks, and features, and strategies for growing your marketing sales results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found, and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. How are you, Craig?

– [Craig] Really good, and #HelpBetter.

– [Ian] That’s right! And let’s talk about our Inbound Thought of the Week, Craig. I was thinking about this, really what is Inbound all about? It’s always be helping. And it highlighted to me because I was updating some of my training, I was doing I think the inbound sales training and you know what? It really did highlight it’s all about helping people get to where they want to get to without just shoving things in their face or what they don’t need at the time, so it’s really about timing, context, content, and all these other things but I think it’s great.

– [Craig] I think it’s a really good reminder and we’ll pick up on that ever so slightly in shot six and inside of the week as well.

– [Ian] So I wanna encourage you. I will put a link to the HubSpot Academy to go and have a look at what trainer it is. You know what? I’m always surprised how much it’s growing. I saw some really good courses today.

– [Craig] You were pointing out the Daniel Pink one and then there’s an Instagram mentor and strategy guide, and yeah, Mari Smith was in there. Like, it’s really good.

– [Ian] That’s right, so they’re really utilizing even people outside of HubSpot that are experts in their field to really help people that are using HubSpot, even not using HubSpot but using it as a hub for training, so I want to highlight that Inbound Sales training and I would encourage people even in marketing to do this training because I think it really gives you a good understanding of how you can tie in with sales better. All right, Craig, onto our HubSpot marketing feature of the week. We’re gonna talk about email marketing and the new email editor.

– [Craig] Yeah so I’m picking up on this, we chatted about this in episode 161, you remember when we first were playing with it, and at the time I hadn’t really had a good chance to, I guess, play with the enigma as they say. I have had that chance now, and you know what, I quite like it. And I just started with the simplest drag-and-drop template, and that’s actually how I’m writing our next newsletter and I just really like just dropping on text bits and dividers and that’s it. I’m trying to make our emails as simple as possible. And there is basically a trend or push to this from most people anyway, so those days of the busy templates with all kinds of curved corners and all this kind of stuff in email templates is pretty much going away. I know there are some companies that have branding standards they still have to do that kind of stuff, but more and more it’s really about paring it right back, simplifying it, especially on mobile for a better mobile experience. Nice and clean. So the drag-and-drop editor, I think it’s time to kind of it just embrace that, and the utility of being able to drop modules or things onto their email and move them around easily is really good. However, you do, I guess, sacrifice a few things and we’re gonna basically chat about our findings. Before I launch into that, how are you finding it?

– [Ian] Well I started using it on a marketing starter product, and so it was great. I could get stuff done really quickly. It was easy to teach people what to do. It just worked well out of the box and I loved the templates that are there to get started as well. Quite a selection. Here’s a welcome email, here’s a re-engagement email, here’s if you wanna promote something, so I think they’ve got that sorted really well. And like I was discovering, like I was talking to you, is that, okay, I was using that and I didn’t really transition to using that on Marketing Professional or Enterprise where we use things like calls-to-actions, And I thought to myself, okay that’s cool. And then I went back and I thought, Oh, I want to add a CTA in my email. How do I do that? Oh, I can’t do that. Did you know about this, Craig?

– [Craig] I didn’t know about it until you highlighted it to me today, and then it drove me nuts. I couldn’t believe it that you couldn’t insert a CTA into the email in Marketing Pro, in the drag-and-drop, I just couldn’t believe it. We’ll come back to that because we do have a solution for that. What are some of the other experiences you’ve had with it, in terms of using it?

– [Ian] Well I think the design is a lot nicer. It’s a lot simpler, it’s cleaner. I’ve had a lot of customers actually tell me, “Oh, that actually looks really nice, and we created that quickly.”

– [Craig] It kind of protects you from yourself if you wanna try doing complex things. I’ve found that it’s a bit limited in styling. So the big one that gets me is I always like to adjust the line height in paragraphs in emails so that there’s a nice–

– [Ian] Space.

– [Craig] We’ll call it breathing room around paragraphs, but you can’t actually override that so I find that frustrating, so I tend to be putting a whole lot of returns or blank lines in emails, which isn’t ideal, but it’s the way I get around it. You can’t actually add HTML scripts of any kind. They get stripped out. I guess that’s again to protect people from themselves. But the reason we found that is because we tried to get a CTA. There’s no native CTA module to just drag on to the email, but we thought oh, let’s go, let’s be smart, let’s go and get the embed code. Oh yeah, we’ll try that, put it into the source view. Nope, the editor just cleans that right out, strips it out. So for example, you can’t actually override this. We can’t set at the email level styling for links to be anything other than their defaults. So I normally don’t like underlines on links, but I use a border underneath a link because I think it’s a nicer style. And that’s pretty common. Or hover over things. But anyway, you can’t do those kind of things. However, they’re not showstoppers. But the CTA one was. So we do have a workaround

– [Ian] A solution.

– [Craig] A solution for the CTA issue, so I’ll go through that now. Basically, and this is a big thank you to Monchurn from the HubSpot support team. I got straight onto the chat with her, I was like, “What’s going on? How come I can’t add a CTA?” She goes, “Oh, let me check.” So, you know how we said a couple of weeks ago, the support people, they’re no dummies. It’s not the junior out there.

– [Ian] That’s correct.

– [Craig] These are smart people. So she gets straight on and she goes, “Oh, okay. Yep, I’ve replicated. Can’t do that. “Ah, I’ll try and embed the code.” I know I’ve already tried that. She said, “No, okay. That didn’t work. “Okay, so what I’m just gonna do, “so I’m just gonna create a custom control “and then let’s see if we can go from the more “if I can add a custom control into the thing that has the CTA.” She goes hang on, “I’ll just check that out.” and I’m like, “Oh, okay. That sounds like a good idea.” She comes back, “Okay, here. “I’ve created a custom control in your portal. Here it is.” She gives me a link. This is all in the chat, right. And she goes, “Here’s what you do.” And she even sent me a screenshot. “Drag that on and insert your CTA.” And it worked. Now the only thing is that it didn’t really render in the design view of the editor, but as soon as you send yourself a test, it did render the CTA nicely. So it worked. And so that’s actually a really cool workaround. So with that in mind, we’re sharing kind of what she did and I’ve got a few screenshots in the show notes about how to set up a custom control, or custom module rather. You basically create a custom module to be used in emails. Can be a local one. Then you basically add a field to that custom module. This is all in the show notes. And then you add a little bit of code, which we’ve got in the show notes there, and then you can drag it straight on back in your email. Drag it back on. And then there’s CTAs in your drag-and-drop editor. And of course I’m hoping–

– [Ian] That this is a standard.

– [Craig] No, hoping that this solution lasts for about a week or two, because we go, “Oh, hang on. They’ve added CTAs to the drag and drop editor like they should have done in the first place.” Anyway, there’s the interim solution.

– [Ian] All right, on to HotSpot sales pitch of the week, Craig. And we’re gonna talk about being direct, and not disguising your intentions.

– [Craig] Actually can I set this up? I’ll say is there a way in that we can determine if leads are sales-ready?

– [Ian] Absolutely Craig.

– [Craig] What is this secret magical tip?

– [Ian] It is as simple as adding this question to your form. Are you ready to speak to us, yes or no?

– [Craig] I love this, because it’s like how do you determine if leads are sales-ready? You ask them.

– [Ian] Correct. And so we’ve been doing this with one of our customers, and it’s actually worked really well. Because where you think someone might be ready to speak to the sales team, they actually might not be. But here you’re giving the opportunity. And so what we’re doing is we’re able to filter out what sales follow up, and be active about that versus following up every single lead that comes through. And it’s working really well.

– [Craig] And it’s all about being direct as you said at the start. Because we put in these fields to disguise our intentions. So the typical one is what’s your timeframe for purchase, just researching, not to three months, etc. All to basically slot them in your segment and then put them into a nurture. They’re kind of disguising it, and really what we’re saying is, “Should we contact you straightaway?” Because as soon as someone puts in the next couple of months, straight on to the phone to them. Why don’t we just ask them? And so I really like that. Would you like us to call you? You put that as a question. Now, a lot of people won’t. And these were the same people that when you ask for a phone number, they put in zero, zero, zero, etc. But there are people that’ll say, “Yes, the reason that I’m filling out this “form is because I want to actually go to “the next step, and I want you to contact me.” And of course, that’s it, straight through to sales

– [Ian] That’s right. And so you can make that a dependent field, right? So basically if they answer yes, then show them the mobile phone input. If they answer no, they don’t do anything and just push that submit button.

– [Craig] Absolutely right. Let’s start actually treating people intelligently. Like a prospect.

– [Ian] Yes. All right, Craig, on to our Marketing Gotcha of the Week.

– [Craig] Well, quite simply our Marketing Gotcha was that you couldn’t add CTAs to the drag-and-drop email editor and thanks to HubSpot Support that’s been solved.

– [Ian] That’s right. All right, Marketing Tip of the Week, Craig. We’re talking about Google Analytics intelligence, and this is insights in Google Analytics. And you’ll see this because there’s a lot of machine learning and artificial intelligence running, so they’re actually able to give us insights. But let’s take this a step further.

– [Craig] I hadn’t actually tried this. There’s a little search box at the top of Google Analytics And you can type in anything. I didn’t even know about this. I was blind to it.

– [Ian] Because I think when you do that, your assumption is that you’re searching for a particular feature to get to or your searching for some help.

– [Craig] Well, I think ’cause I’m so used to analytics, I know my way around. So I saw it as a help box. How do I find the journal’s report? Like you said, it’s navigation. Well, it does do all that as well. But no, this is about you ask a question. So you just basically ask it questions. What was my best performing page last week? How much revenue did we make? What’s the best channel? Like you ask it questions, and it gives you these answers.

– [Ian] Very conversational, Craig.

– [Craig] It is conversational and it’s really smart, and surprisingly helpful. So, we’ve got a few screenshots. Ya know how I found out about this?

– [Ian] By accident?

– [Criag] No, I was giving training on Google Analytics at a client site last week, and they said, “What’s that box up at the top?” I was like, “I think it’s just a help box.” I learn things in training. I’ve been training clients for years on Google Analytics on these kinds of things. There’s so many new things that come out. I think this is a good reminder to me and maybe to other people listening that are very familiar with it, you just kind of have this blindness. You’re so used to doing what you do, you don’t go exploring or finding other things, or you miss new features. And look, this is really good.

– [Ian] Mind you, Google is not that great at telling us about new features but

– [Craig] Well, maybe. There’s been a box staring me in the face for how long? It’s probably been there for ages.

– [Ian] It’s probably been there for a year, Craig.

– [Craig] I don’t know. But anyway, make use of it folks. It’s really good.

– [Ian] All right, Insight of the Week, Craig.

– [Craig] Here’s a paraphrase of a Seth Godin kind of approach.

– [Ian] Is this from his book?

– [Craig] This is not. Well no, this is from a while back at one of his posts.

– [Ian] Okay.

– [Craig] Could be part of his book, really. And picking up what you started with Inbound Thought of the Week about helping people, here’s what he says about marketing. “Marketing should do one thing. Build more trust.” Okay, I’m paraphrasing it, but that it’s in a nutshell. I thought that was very interesting. I was reminded of this today when I was reading an article. But this whole idea about marketing, and so I’ve been just putting together a newsletter for our agency . I was like, “What am I doing in this newsletter? “Am I trying to sell? “What am I trying to do?” And actually I found this comment really helpful. I’m just trying to build more trust. Trying to help people, and I’m aiming for them to trust me more. It’s predominantly for existing clients. Like there are leads and prospects on the list as well, but it’s really about clients. I want to help them better, and I want them to trust us more. And so I found this comment really good. And so really I think the takeaway, and why we’re mentioning it in the show, is ask yourself this. Any time you’re working on marketing piece, does this ad, does this email, does this article, does this blog, does this campaign, does this strategy help people and build more trust? Because if it doesn’t, then perhaps it’s time to question it.

– [Ian] All right, on to our Retirement of the Week, Craig.

– [Craig] Do you use the social reports in HubSpot? And in particular, the Twitter? Some of the Twitter pieces like journals, , and sent items, and stuff? Have you ever used those?

– [Ian] I started using the new ones

– [Craig] Right. These old ones, well apparently they’re taking them out. I was like, “Oh, I didn’t even know they were there.” So apparently, do you know why–

– [Ian] It was highly used.

– [Craig] Low usage. I’m like, “Oh, well that makes sense.” There’s one I can totally understand.

– [Ian] But have a look at this, right? This is interesting. And I look at it from the perspective of they’re clearly measuring stuff and measuring what people are looking at. Now it takes extra resource to actually produce these reports and give it to people. Multiply that by the number of accounts and users they have to do this for. That’s a potential massive saving.

– [Craig] Oh, so you think there’s a utilization–

– [Ian] Utilization.

– [Craig] Over here.

– [Ian] Absolutely.

– [Craig] Well, but if no one’s using, or you mean preparing it for no one to use? There is that as well.

– [Ian] Correct. Yeah.

– [Craig] I more think about the code base.

– [Ian] Yeah, well that’s exactly right.

– [Craig] Keeping the code base maintained. Because these things break over time, especially a Twitter piece. Ah, it’s broken. Well, no one’s using it. Let’s take it out. That’s one less bit of code that we have to test on each release, and update, and stuff like that. Yeah, totally.

– [Ian] What was that really interesting stat we saw in the HubSpot update about duplicate data or about having unclean data costing businesses three trillion dollars a year.

– [Craig] Was it trillion?

– [Ian] Yeah, it was something huge.

– [Craig] How’d they calculate that?

– [Ian] Yeah, but it was a big number. I mean this is one of the things, and it doesn’t have to just be data that you’re managing. It could be anything that you work with. Is it a tool? Is it things in your process that you’re doing that’s actually not required anymore? Like talking to somebody in sales today, they were saying one of his colleagues was saying, “Like, why do I want to do a demo? “They can watch a video?”

– [Craig] That’s a good point.

– [Ian] Right? So prior, if you think about it, when really good video walkthroughs and demos of products weren’t available someone would actually show you, walk you through it, and do that.

– [Craig] Because I get the logic of that, but quite often I’ll send videos to people and they don’t watch them, but they want to get on a Zoom call and I go through exactly the same thing. And they’re like, “Oh, great.” Even if they don’t ask questions, they’re like, “Oh, cool. Thanks for showing me that.” I’m like it’s exactly what was in the video. There was something about doing it in person that some people prefer. And in fact, there is doing an in-person I don’t prefer. I’d much prefer to get a video because for starters, I can watch it at double-speed. But so I can just stop it, go back, whatever. So I actually prefer a video, but I know some people don’t. They prefer that personal walkthrough.

– [Ian] And here’s the thing, this is maybe one of those questions you ask. How would you prefer to have a demonstration? Would you like to watch a video, or would you like a live walkthrough?

– [Craig] Yeah, well here’s building on it, Ya know webinars?

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] Ya know webinars are still big. I can’t believe people sign up to attend a webinar at a later time. And then quite often you attend the webinar and it’s pre-recorded, right?

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] You’ve had to sign up to watch it–

– [Ian] And have to wait.

– [Craig] And wait, and then you get to see the video. It’s pre-recorded and it’s a YouTube video. And then you go, “Oh, hang on. “I’ll just click on it. “Ah, here it is on YouTube. “I could’ve gone and seen it straight on YouTube.” It still works for some reason. People are signing up for those kind of, well I sign up for them. I’m a fool myself. But it just seems like an inefficiency, but it’s still really, what’s the word? I don’t know about popular, but it’s still–

– [Ian] It’s still working in certain segments of the market.

– [Craig] It’s still .

– [Ian] All right, Craig. Onto our Resource of the Week. Understanding all the different Google sections in the search results. And this is a post from?

– [Craig] From We are ROAST. And it’s a good summary. You look at Google these days, and how many organic results do you see?

– [Ian] Well, there right down the bottom.

– [Craig] You’re lucky if you see any. But there’s always other things. Knowledge panels, knowledge boxes, ask boxes.

– [Ian] Answer boxes.

– [Craig] I’m sorry, answer boxes. People also ask boxes. Of course there’s maps, listings, there’s shopping results. Tons of things. There’s all those different things. Oh, plus there’s the occasional just search result.

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] There’s all those things. Well, if you wanted a good overview, I actually use this in training. I was giving some SEO training to a client last week and we went through all of them, and they were just like, “Oh, yeah.” People don’t realize how complex Google is getting these days. And of course the result that Google wants is for you to never leave Google. All the answers stay on Google. So there’s this fight for actually getting attention first, but then click through second.

– [Ian] I think it’s very, very valuable to understand. Like, it changes on a daily basis. And when we’re doing stuff we’ll be testing things, and were like, “Oh, never seen that before.” And I’ll show you stuff, but you’re not seeing it. So it’s really interesting. And this is happening across the board, but people are actually not understanding because they’re seeing what they want to see. They’re getting the results that they want to get, and they’re getting better at doing that. That people don’t even realize that it’s happening.

– [Craig] Yeah, it’s a self-reinforcing bubble that we put ourselves into.

– [Ian] All right, what’s our Quote of the Week, Craig?

– [Craig] Here’s the quote. “If you deliberately plan “on being less than you’re capable of being, “then I warn you that you’ll be unhappy the rest of your life.” That’s a quote from Abraham Maslow. So you remember Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs? I think we all learned that at school. That’s a quote from him way back when, and I just thought that was useful. Be your best. Don’t be less. I think people do sometimes just couldn’t be bothered, and they’re unhappy. So not really a marketing-related quote. Just a life–

– [Ian] A life-related quote.

– [Craig] A life gem, there you go.

– [Ian] All right, we would love you to leave us a rating on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, on any platform that you listen to us on. It will greatly help us reach more people, and we would love if you could actually share it with somebody that you know that really enjoys marketing and sales, and maybe using HubSpot. Because it’s such a great way to get in front of them. Until next time, Craig.

– [Craig] Catch you later, Ian. Hey, there. Thanks for listening to this episode of HubShots. For show notes and the latest HubSpot news and tips, please visit us at HubShots.com

Episode 164: Are HubSpot Workflows useful for Sales?

Welcome to Episode 164 of HubShots!

Welcome to HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

We hope you enjoy the podcast as much as HubSpot’s CEO, Brian Halligan does.

This episode we chat about buyer journeys, using HubSpot workflows to set contact owners, how to find out what ads a company is running on Instagram, and what it means to be a Head of Marketing.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/164-are-hubspot-workflows-useful-for-sales

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

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Recorded: Thursday 04 July 2019 | Published: Wednesday 10 July 2019

Shot 1: Inbound Thought of the Week

Gating content – do we need to rethink our approach?


From David C Baker:

“More than that, I see that most firms who gather all this data don’t really do anything with it, anyway, so why create the user friction in the first place?”

Here’s a summary of his 8 key points (read the post for all the details of each):

  1. Only gate content late in the funnel
  2. Quit disappointing prospects with content that is not gate-worthy
  3. Your CTA should only request information that you will actually use
  4. Be careful with pillar articles if they are merely disingenuous attempts to gate things
  5. Never ask for a phone number
  6. Trust the process. Trust Google. Quit operating from a scarcity viewpoint
  7. Have a privacy statement if you want, but don’t pretend that it’ll reassure anyone
  8. Make it easy to sign up for your stuff

The key takeaway: be thoughtful about what you gate, what you ask for, and what you do with it.

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Looking forward to using Form in Conversations:


Ideally, we’d be able to create forms for different parts of the site, and have these go into separate Conversations inboxes – seems like this is coming. Yay!

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Using Workflows to allocate Contact Owners

You can use workflows to allocate contacts to having a Contact owner.

Previously you only allocate to users with paid versions of HubSpot, but they have removed this restriction.

Note: if you want to use owners random rotation though, HubSpot advises you still need to have a paid seat (see below).

XEN   All Form Submits   HubSpot 1

XEN   All Form Submits   HubSpot

Note that there seems to be a bug that allows you to rotate between members in Child teams (even though you can’t at the Parent Team level.

Shot 4: Marketing Gotcha of the Week

Not appreciating the number of touches in a customer’s journey


Search behavior has changed the path to purchase   Think with Google

Justin   Shopping for cars   Think with Google

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

How to see the ads that a company is running on Instagram

Eg here’s how to see what ads HubSpot are running:

  • On mobile app go to their Profile
  • Top right, click the 3 dots and choose ‘About this account’
  • Choose the ‘Active Ads’ option

IMG 0764

Note: this won’t appear for all accounts – it seems to depend on the number of followers on the account ie only shows for accounts with large followings.

IMG 0765

IMG 0763

Shot 6: Insight of the Week

The inefficiency of the web

From SEObook: Google Recaptcha Breaking Websites, Lowering Conversion Rates, Costing Businesses Real Revenues on Ecommerce Websites


“AMP is an utterly unnecessary invention designed to further shift power to Google while disenfranchising publishers.”

A good reminder that just because there is something new and shiny, it doesn’t mean it is a good idea.

You may still end up having to use it, but that still doesn’t mean it is a good thing.

Another example of inefficiency: URL shorteners

Twitter came along and limited the number of characters to use in a tweet

So tools were created to allow URL shortening so that long links could be included in tweets

Summary: a totally unnecessary process – a tool in the middle to undo the limitation of Twitter

Takeaway: be thoughtful about your marketing stack, your marketing reports, your marketing activities

Shot 7: Retirement of the Week

Say goodbye to the good old listings that used to appear in Google – fare thee well my good and faithful SERPs.

Shot 8: Resource of the Week

Typical intent terms

From Tim Soulo at ahrefs


intent tim

Shot 9: Quote of the Week

What does it mean to be the ‘Head of Marketing’?


The reason that the tenure of a CMO at a big company averages about 18 months is that it takes a year and a half for the boss to realize that pain-free, risk-free, easy miracles aren’t arriving on schedule.

“To be the head of marketing, you need the freedom and responsibility to change the way things work, not simply how they’re talked about.”

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week

Tools to investigate:


Please leave us a simple star rating as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

hubshots episode 164: hubspot workflows

Episode 164 Transcript

– [Ian] Hi everyone, welcome to HubShots Episode 164. In this episode, we talk about buyer journeys, using HubSpot Workflows to set contact owners, how to find out what ads a company’s running on Instagram, and what it means to be the head of marketing. You’re listening to Asia Pacific’s number one HubSpot-focused podcast where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks, and features for growing your sales, marketing, and service results. We hope you enjoy the podcast as much as HubSpot’s CEO Brian Halligan does.

– [Brian] Thanks for creating this podcast, it’s awesome. I listen to it on the weekends and I really enjoy it.

– [Ian] My name is Ian Jacob from Search and Be Found and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. How are you, Craig?

– [Craig] Oh, really good, and you know, a new financial year here in Australia.

– [Ian] That’s right.

– [Craig] So we’re recording this on the 4th of July.

– [Ian] Which is Independence Day.

– [Craig] Oh, it is, yes, so, to our American listeners.

– [Ian] You know what, I was in America, bit of a side note, I was in Hawaii last Independence Day and I absolutely loved it. I kinda wish I was in Hawaii again. Looking at the .

– [Craig] Don’t we all?

– [Ian] Anyway, Craig, on to our Inbound Thought of the Week, and we’re gonna look at David C. Baker, talks about gating content and do we need to rethink our approach.

– [Craig] Now, we both love David C. Baker. He’s like a consultant’s consultant in a way.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] I think we both read his book. I loved his book. But he has a wonderful blog and he writes about, well, I think thoughtful marketing and he’s got a post talking about rethinking gating content and this isn’t a new topic and as he says in the post, he’s been thinking about this for years, this idea of what should we gate? Well, a few things really. What should we gate? What should we gate it with, you know, how many fields? And then more importantly, how do we actually use that data? Because he rightly points out so many of these forms, they ask for so much data that people never use and so I don’t want to position his post as being prescriptive. It’s really just thought-provoking, so think about this, and he makes a few points, in fact, eight key points that he says, and maybe we’ll quickly jump through a few of these.

– [Ian] Yeah, let’s go through it.

– [Craig] Yeah, so the first one he says is only gate content late in the funnel, and maybe we’ll just mention the points and then I’m gonna pull out two that I wanna expand further on but in the blog post, go and read it where he expands it out. But number one, only gate content made in the funnel.

– [Ian] Yup, number two is quit disappointing prospects with content that is not gate-worthy.

– [Craig] Number three, your CTA should only request information that you will actually use.

– [Ian] Number four, be careful with pillar articles if they are merely disingenuous attempts to gate things.

– [Craig] Number five, never ask for a phone number, and I’m gonna come back to this one.

– [Ian] Number six, trust the process, trust Google. Quit operating it from a scarcity view point.

– [Craig] Number seven, have a privacy statement if you want but don’t pretend that it’ll reassure anyone.

– [Ian] And finally number eight, make it easy to sign up for your stuff.

– [Craig] That’s a good way to close it. And he flushes each of these and he gives a good talk for minutes around them. But the one, never ask for a phone number, I thought this was an interesting one to think about depending on the business and the industry you’re in.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] ‘Cause well, many of our clients, B-to-B, phone number is mandatory. They must ask for the phone number ’cause their sales team would jump on that and how people today is calling them. The comment I was gonna make though is include a phone number if you wanna use it as a qualifier because it’s actually a good way to stop people filling out forms and filling this fits junk, people just downloading things and never having no intent. So I actually think a phone number can be a good thing but use it wisely. But as he says, why use it if you’re never actually gonna call ’em? That’s just annoying.

– Exactly.

– And scary.

– [Ian] But I think you find this, thinking back to the previous episode where we talked about some lead ads you were running and asking for a phone number in the lead ad and what that did to your conversion and what that did to people’s behavior essentially, so I think it’s a really good point.

– [Craig] Coming back to his point one, I only gate content late in the funnel. I’d actually apply that to phone numbers. Should you be putting a phone number at the top of the funnel? Probably not, possibly, probably not. But yeah, later in the funnel, it’s very much a qualifier. And look, people will get around it anyway. If they don’t want a phone number, I’ll put in zero, zero, zero, get all those junk numbers clean because they’re just sort of fill it in however the key take away from this be thoughtful about what you get what you asked for and what you do with it. If you ask for the data at least use it.

– [Ian] All right Craig, HubSpot marking feature of the week and looking forward to using forms in conversation.

– [Craig] Did you say this without talking about this is coming soon, I think they’re just rolling it out in new portals but you know you can have a support forum and you’ve got conversations.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] What kind of makes sense that if someone fills out a support forum okay, into the conversation?

– into the conversation?

– [Craig] Currently, they have team inboxes, let’s say you’ve got support at mydomain.com, that the email goes in, that’s a conversation, what about if you had a forum there? Anyway that’s coming and really the point of what I’d like to see and I think this is where it said it is look any forum, surely you can wire up any form to an inbox conversation. That’s what I’d like.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] Anyway, that’s the feature coming soon, I like it, looking forward to it.

– [Ian] All right, perhaps for sales for the week Craig is using work first to allocate contact owners. So you can use WordPress to allocate contacts to having a contact owner.

– [Craig] Yeah, so we’ve discussed this before, I mean this itself is not a particularly new feature however it is under utilized but a few nuances we’re gonna pull out.

– [Ian] Okay, and this is more to do with the lead rotation within a workflow, so I think what’s interesting is that we found in the portal we have sales professional users but at the high level, let’s let’s say the team above the super team, you can’t actually assign that team to the lead rotation.

– [Craig] Yes, so what they’re saying is in workflows you can allocate a contact owner to a contact and you can choose any of your user, those scammers. But if you want to rotate it so that it automatic or randomly rotates it between the team, you’re like oh, okay, so when I was looking at this, the announcement about that they’ve made it easier for people to be allocated even if they’re not paid, I’m looking at rotation ongoing. So according to what I’m reading them saying, you can’t rotate between people unless they are all pro users but that doesn’t seem to be the case in the portals where we are testing and it seems to be the case when people have set up parent-child teams. So I don’t know if this is a bug or there’s like a little loophole here but it seems if you use child teams, you can definitely rotate between them and they don’t have to be paid users. So I’m a bit confused, I don’t know if this is just a loophole or a bargain, I’ve misunderstood the way written the article but in any case it’s great because now you can just allocate between anyone on the team. They don’t have to be a pain user.

– [Ian] True.

– [Craig] I wonder how long that will last.

– [Ian] Let’s see.

– [Craig] We got two screenshots there of different ways you can allocate people as well.

– [Ian] Yes, and we’ve spoken in previous episodes about the lead rotation about balancing that out among sales team. And I think you’re right, it is an underutilized feature within HubSpot.

– [Craig] Yeah, and I think the reason we wanted to call this out and why we mentioned at the top of the show is using work players in sales because often you would chat with people about our using workflows, we’re doing that on the marketing, so we’ve got email matches, oh okay, cool. And so what about on the sales side? Oh yeah, we’ve got sequences set up, oh okay. What about using work Flyers for deals and just general contact maintenance and things like that? People don’t think of it. They think that workflows are just a marketing function and I guess this is just a very simple example of where you can incorporate it in a sales process.

– [Ian] All right, onto a marketing gotcha of the week Craig and this is not appreciating the number of touches in a customer’s journey. And this is a bit of content on think with Google, it’s actually really well done, there’s a piece of content above this interactive content that basically shows you from the data that they have that the customer journey is not linear. Kind of fluctuates based on what people are doing and who they are. And if you drill down into it you can actually interactively go through a journey of a particular type of customer. There’s Wendy who’s 68, she had 120 plus touch points on–

– [Craig] On her journey to purchase the car–

– [Ian] And you had one on the other side who was 25, who had 600 plus touch points in six days and then we had Justin who was took 24 days and had 110 plus .

– [Craig] 24 days go the extra.

– [Ian] That’s right, so at this highlights to you like the different parts people are taking and how they’re going about it and it really gives a good understanding of how people even looking for a similar product, how different their journeys are, and they do it across the automotive electronics, food and beverage, personal care, retail and travel. So it’s really fascinating, so I’d encourage you to have a look at it. But what is some of the key stuff that we highlight in there Craig?

– [Craig] Yeah, well, I thought they did a good job of visualizing this funnel moments where they’re basically saying wide peak, narrow peak and this idea that the number of touches increases when they’re researching and then when they’re at a particular purchase inflection, it’s really narrow and come down to very specific touches that there are. So I thought it was really, you know I’ve never really seen it put like that before, I thought that was a good insight.

– [Ian] I really like the purchase junction .

– [Craig] Purchase junction, yes.

– [Ian] The point a which a user makes a purchase but then continues searching.

– [Craig] Continues on searching, I don’t know if they’re buying all the cars but certainly we know in other areas that once they buy, that actually opens them up to buying a lot of other things depending on the industry of course and whether it’s a repeat purchase market. But yes, that’s it. Get them in a purchase and then immediately advertise to them again or immediately try and touch them again to get multiple subsequent purchases.

– [Ian] I think that’s really interesting, I would think that this has happened to me before when I’ve been buying some things online. I bought something in literally within 10 minutes of buying a couple of products on this one site, I got an email back saying well you can buy more and it’s free shipping, right. Oh I know, I just paid for shipping but now I can buy more stuff and just not pay any more shipping. So incentivize people, incentivize me to add more stuff that had already paid.

– [Craig] There’s limited offers but there’s also accessorizing, it’s the normal off sale. So one of the old, everyone would know this, but one of the things they teach you in retail of course is when you go in someone’s shopping for clothes is the perfect example. You going I want a suit and a shirt and the belt and socks and that, they never start with, oh well, let’s find the belt for you sir, it’s always okay start with the most expensive items because once they get over that dumb purchase hurdle, oh my goodness, how much, okay, great. Then belt seems like a bargain and as a percentage wise, that’s what we do psychologically, we get our odds not that much because we consider it relative to the purchase we’ve just made. Well, in the online space, this is of course the same depending on, you know, could actually be closed for all we know but in those places accessorizing and think about in your business where accessorizing might be because it might be a big consulting piece followed up with some little one-off audits or whatever it is, whatever it is you’re selling, but yeah, it’s all around understanding those moments. And that purchase inflection point is a key one.

– [Ian] Okay, onto marketing ability Craig,

– [Craig] You know in Facebook, you can get our Facebook company page and you can see what they’re advertising on. I think most people, most marketing managers will know that I wanna see what this brands advertising or I will just go their Facebook page and look Have you ever wondered oh, how do I see that on Instagram? Is there a way to see? Well, it turns out there is, it’s got to be in the app though. And we’ve got a few screenshots, in fact I’ll show you what HubSpots advertising on Instagram at the moment but it’s pretty easy in the app, you just go in, you go to their profile, go at the top right with those three dots and you’re looking for an entry that says About this account, have a look at that and then you can see they’re active ads. So we’ve got a few screenshots there, we can see nice range of ads that HubSpot is advertising.

– [Ian] So now Craig when I saw this in the show notes, I thought oh, I’m gonna go test this out on a few accounts that we were looking at. I’m like, hang on, I can’t see that, why is that? Anyway, it doesn’t appear for all the accounts ’cause users depend on the number of followers you have on your account. So just be aware of that if you think, oh I’m just gonna check this out, what are these guys talking about? It’s because of the number of followers. Have a look at a few accounts you follow and see what ads they actually running. Some of them actually might have the About this account but you might actually not seen yet any ads running. So just be aware of that too. But a great thing to work out what is going on and what people are advertising on. All right, Craig onto inside of the week and it’s talking about the inefficiency of the web. And this is from SEO book, Google reCAPTCHA breaking websites lowering conversion rates costing businesses real revenue on e-commerce websites.

– [Craig] So we have a reader of SEO book , I grew up on Erin Wall.

– [Ian] Oh, did you?

– [Craig] Yeah, I just, so it’s fantastic. So listeners may not know this but I used to be an SEO consultant, that’s a dirty word they say Yeah, I did a lot of SEO, probably decade ago now, but Erin Wall was the man, he was the legend of SEO and so I was member of his community for many years, it’s fantastic, yeah. He’s gonna be quite the last couple of years and you know traffic think-tank with Matt Barber and that, I almost think of TTT as the new SEO Book. It’s coming from… It’s the same kind of community vibe experts in there and things like that. But anyway, I digress. He does put out the occasional post on SEO book. And by the way, if you know since not even HTTPS, I don’t know if he’s doing that on purpose. He’s got doing SSL on his site, I don’t know what’s going on, it’s just sweet. Anyway, that’s an aside. In this post, he’s talking about AMP which is excited mobile pages, Google’s little baby, and he’s highlighting it as an example of inefficiency on the web. We didn’t need AMP, we didn’t need that, we’ve got the HTML standard which is perfectly fine. Of course all these people come along and load massive payloads of add scripts and all kinds of things onto it but then Google says, oh no, we’re gonna take that perfectly valid standard and we’re gonna strip it back and then we’re gonna put all our own kind of packaging around it and then force you to use it. And so his post is quite a critical one of Google as many of his posts are just about the way they’re kind of abusing their position of power and taking standards and just, I guess, corrupting them for their own good.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] And so I think this is a very good post to read but it just reminds me of inefficiency in so many things. So the takeaway from this and why I wanted to chat about it in the show is because as marketers, just be careful when you find yourself doing things inefficiently to overcome other things that shouldn’t have even been there in first place.

– In the first place.

– [Craig] So I’ll give you, this is my favorite example, you know Twitter has a limit to the number of characters, that has kind of increased lately, but it’s still quite small. So you put their small tweets. And so if you wanted to put a URL in, you couldn’t because it’s too long. So people created URL shorteners, so you can shorten URL to put it into Twitter. It’s like Twitter created a problem and someone else has created a solution to this problem. It shouldn’t have been a problem in the first place, it’s so inefficient, Twitter just should have said, you are all . It’s like they created this false problem that needed a solution to fix this from. So that’s inefficiency in their own.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] You don’t have to think too hard before you start saying this everywhere. All these tools that people put together to solve problems that shouldn’t be problems in the first place, AMP is one of them, there’s all these others. Yeah, you know reCAPTCHA?

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] So that puts a pixel on sites, one of the things he said in this blog post is that Bing ads used to use reCAPTCHA as a confirmation thing to log in. So what it meant was Bing ads and all its Bing Microsoft properties had a Google reCAPTCHA pixel on all their sites to just kind of drink all this information. It’s like, dude I realize he put reCAPTCHA on his site and of course HubSpot has it in there on blog post reCAPTCHA. Thank you, that’s a Google pixel in their tracking, people wonder how they get tracked everywhere, this is it, all these little pixels for problems that we’ve kind of known going on around here, reCAPTCHA, right, so they’ve got these things so that BOTS can’t overcome . It’s like they’re putting all this money into AI to create BOTS that will be able to do the things that people don’t have to do them and then they put a reCAPTCHA in place to supposedly stop so it’s only real people. So you’ve got like this problem to solve–

– [Ian] The self-perpetuating–

– [Craig] Yeah, it’s like I’ll create a thing that only BOTS can’t solve to stop what’s going in but will create AI that’s so smart that it can overcome these things. It’s just this is what I call inefficiency. Anyway, I could go on with that with all these kinds of things. The takeaway, be thoughtful about your marketing stack and your marketing reports and your marketing activities. I look, I could get start on marketing reports, how many reports you see people creating that answering a question no one is asking–

– [Ian] That’s right.

– [Craig] And then as a result of that report someone else is going all I need this too, we need it. Oh yeah, what do we need that for? I don’t know but let’s do another report to find out. It’s just this, and so it goes on. Should I stop there, I think I’ve said enough.

– [Ian] Yes, you should. All right, onto the retired of the week Craig.

– [Craig] Oh you know what’s retired from the Google search results, organic results, that’s whats retired.

– [Ian] Yes, you know what, if we have pressed to find some organic results these days with more than half the page being paid local maps, product, it’s any wonder.

– [Craig] Yeah, people also ask, knowledge base year.

– [Ian] All right, Craig resource of the week.

– [Craig] Nice one here from Tim Silver, so just put this on Twitter and just it’s very simple, this is not some groundbreaking thing, it’s just good is this the terms for around intent. I see now when people search for stuff on Google there’s kind of different intent, purchase intent or transaction intents, often referred to, but there’s no vocational intern, there’s educational, there’s entertainment intent. Anyway he’s got just a list of some of these terms. So well, I’ll have a look at that what’s some of the informational intent terms that you’d find?

– [Ian] Yeah, I think that’s interesting. I mean when, I mean if I’m reading this right, if you type in a what–

– [Craig] Any queries that have what like questions, what, who, what, how, where.

– [Ian] Yeah, and then it says and the transactional its coupon, what does that mean?

– [Craig] If people this were to search for things, it’s just showing their intent. So if they’ve got buy red shoes or coupon for the iconic or things like that, it’s probably showing that that’s a transactional intent. They’re looking to purchase order, how to order, store lookups, those kind of things.

– [Ian] It’s basically everything across that line is not related to each other.

– [Craig] Oh no, sorry. There’s four columns, like there’s informational terms, navigational, investigative ones and then transactional purchase.

– [Ian] Yeah, okay, I get it, absolutely.

– [Craig] So whenever to buy or–

– [Ian] Yeah, absolutely, so that’s… I mean I think that I’ve actually seen and I was reading Google report is that a lot of people actually typing in ‘the near me’–

– [Craig] Yes, which they don’t need to.

– [Ian] Which still don’t need to especially when you’re talking about search locally. So I think over 60% of search for product ends up actually where people are looking to walk into a store and purchase the products. They’re often wanting it soon. So I’ll go to a perfect example. I was going for a presentation the other day, I figured oh, last time I went for the presentation I couldn’t connect my computer up to the projector, I needed that HDMI. I’m thinking, oh hang on, which one am I gonna get. So I actually went through this project, I went onto the web, I was searching, okay well, hey what’s the best connector. And then once I realized what was good, I then went okay, well, where can I get it, right? I need it to be in the vicinity of either on my travel to my destination or within the vicinity of the office. What was interesting it on a store that I thought was nearby that would potentially have it didn’t have it and I had to travel little bit further away but I was thinking, why is that the case? And maybe it did have it but it wasn’t showing up on the search results. Anyway, I couldn’t take the chance, I went to the one I knew that would have stock and that’s what I did. So I kind of just thought about the process I’ve gone through and I thought, well, this is really interesting, my need was pretty immediate. It really didn’t come down to price, it was more about convenience and distance that drove my activity.

– [Craig] That’s an excellent example of the buyers journey in a particular scenario, that’s exactly right.

– [Ian] That’s right, and if I had needed that how I thought about this a bit earlier, I would have probably ordered of Amazon and got it delivered to my house.

– [Craig] Yes, so that wasn’t our comparison shopping, that was urgency shopping.

– [Ian] Correct, so there you go. All right, you got a crack a quote of the week Craig, What does it mean to be the head of marketing?

– [Craig] Good posts from Seth on this and we’ve got two little quote phrase pulled out, I couldn’t choose them, the best one, but actually it’s not just a quote of the week, it’s like article of the week head of marketing. And his idea, I’ll capture his nutshell of his idea is, well, what’s the head of marketing like, what do they do? He basically says, here’s the killer quote, to be the head of marketing you need the freedom and responsibility to change the way things work not simply how they’re talked about. And the idea being it’s not just about brand and messaging, it’s actually about changing things. That’s what my and his book is on all about marketing, it’s about change, making a change in people. But he actually says the reason that the tenure of the same big company average is about 18 months is that it takes about a year and a half for the boss to realize the pain free risk, free easy miracles aren’t arriving on schedule. They hire the head of marketing but the boss doesn’t wanna actually give up, it’s strategic. This head of marketing just becomes an operational person, then they realized, oh no, it’s not for me.

– [Ian] And you know what, true in the marketing sense but I think this can be across the board even in sales same thing. What are the behaviors you’re driving that this driving change. I only say that because I was in a meeting the other day and what was really interesting they could see the way people are buying and the way younger people interacting with people in sales has changed but when they said, oh well, what about if we give that to Bob? No, he’s not gonna do that, he’s not gonna use a CRM. And they’re like, we’re not gonna include him in on this, oh that’s really interesting. So there are people that have identified that I’m not going to change and then there are people that are gonna change and they will basically gonna split and carry on and I thought oh, this is really interesting.

– [Ian] Wow, so Bob’s getting put over in special projects.

– [Craig] Reading from that, the next redundancy round.

– [Ian] So, you know what, this is a really interesting thing. It doesn’t just span marketing, its sales, it’s even anything we do. Even us as technical people or agency owners we have to choose to change and make a difference. So definitely worth thinking about how we go about that. Now, Craig you’ve got a bonus link of a week which is a tool, what is this tool?

– [Craig] This is a Facebook advertising management tool. So I just wanted to check out to investigate, kind of a note to self what’s checking it out today but gonna dive into it.

– [Ian] Excellent, if anyone does try it out, please let us know.

– [Craig] Yes, by the way if there are any tool vendors out there that would like us to have a play with that tool and perhaps even review it on the show, just get in contact as soon as few details, obviously if it’s marketing related–

– [Ian] If it’s sales related–

– [Craig] That’s fine, that’d be great.

– [Ian] Well everyone we hope you enjoyed this show, please leave us a review on iTunes or Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to this, could be on Spotify, we would love you to leave us a review, just the star review is fine. And if you do take a screenshot and send it to us and we’ll send you something.

– [Craig] What will we send them, Something?

– [Ian] It’s maybe some socks Craig . Anyway, we will reward you with something that is of values, so please do that, send it to us, direct message us on Instagram and let us know. Well Craig until next time.

– [Craig] Catch you later Ian.

– [Announcer] Thank you for listening to this episode of HubShots for Schonox, resources, HubSpot News including practical strategies you can implement, visit us at hubshots.com.