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Episode 174: Quotes in HubSpot Deals

Welcome to Episode 174 of HubShots!

HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

This episode we chat about Brian’s keynote at Inbound, play further with Quotes in HubSpot Deals, and being relaxed about Google’s changes to rel=nofollow in links.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/174-quotes-in-hubspot-deals

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

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Recorded: Wednesday 18 September 2019 | Published: Friday 27 September 2019

Shot 1: Inbound Thought of the Week

Breaking down Brian’s keynote on Experience Disruptors


  • Get Experience-Market Fit
  • Remove Friction
  • Personalize
  • Sell Through Your Customers
  • Attack Your Business Model

(No mention of blockchain, AI)

How you sell is why you win.

Impact had a good roundup of the keynote:


Related: another reason why I love Amazon:


Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Using your Marketing Dashboard wisely!

There are lots of reports you can add to your dashboard.

Tip:  Think about what you want to achieve by having that report.  We often use a longer timeframes on certain reports to see trends in enquiries and sessions by source.  This will give you a good idea of what is happening.

Also, don’t forget you can click through on the report and see the detailed data.

Reports dashboard 12

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Diving into Quotes on Deals


  • Simple to use, nice template designs
  • Simple to add contact and products
  • Mix recurring and one-off items
  • eSignature is being enabled for Pro in November (currently only in Enterprise)
  • Use Snippets to fill in comment and payment term boxes

Schnubbs   New Website and Marketing


  • Can’t edit Quotes after sending them
  • Can’t search for Deals that have Quotes, can’t find Deals that have Quotes accepted etc
  • Can’t use your own domain in the links
  • Doesn’t support tax automatically eg GST
  • No protection of Quotes on Deals that are Closed (eg you can easily delete a quote, even if the Deal is Won, and there’s no audit trail)

Shot 4: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

Finding Deals that have quotes attached

Add your own custom Deal properties, and make sure to update at the time of adding the quote

Recommend using a date field to mark the date the quote was added

Property settings 1

You can then create Deal Views that use the Quote property:

Deals 1

You can then add other criteria eg All Deals that active (ie not Won or Lost) and have a Quote date set.

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

Don’t be concerned by Google’s announcement about changes to rel=”nofollow” in links.

Google’s rel= changes




How Google s Nofollow  Sponsored    UGC Links Impact SEO   Moz

Key insight: it highlights that links are (still) definitely a key input/consideration for Google

Shot 6: Insight of the Week

Why I moved my social posting over to my blog:


Five main reasons:

  1. A permanent record
  2. A searchable record
  3. Share the link love
  4. Time management – avoiding the timeline time suck
  5. Mental health – avoiding the dopamine hit of social likes

Interested in my ramblings? My personal blog is at https://craigbailey.net

Shot 7: App of the Week

Google Maps app

Make sure you are optimising for it.  It is showing more information about businesses that have updated their Google MyBusiness listings.  Even showing video.

IMG 3D2DD5A95151 1

Shot 8: Resource of the Week

A collection of famous speeches:


With transcriptions.

I enjoyed JK Rowling’s Harvard address:


Shot 9: Quote of the Week

“The more people use my inventions, the better the country will be.”

  • Sakichi Toyoda

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week

Btw reminder of Moz’s Beginner’s Guide to SEO:


Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

HubShots episode 174

Episode 174 Transcription

– [Ian] Hi everyone. Welcome to HubShots episode 174. In this episode we chat about Brian Halligan’s keynote at INBOUND, we play further with quotes in HubSpot deals, and, what to do with the whole malarkey and Google, and about the changes with links. You’re listening to HubShots, Asia Pacific’s number one HubSpot focus podcast, where we discuss HubSpots tips, tricks, features and strategies for growing your marketing and sales results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found, and with me is Craig Bailey from Xen systems. How are you Craig?

– [Craig] Oh really good, I’m having a great week. You know what, and this is just a bit of a weather update for our oversees listeners, because Sydney, well Sydney weather is just awesome.

– It was beautiful.

– [Craig] September’s my favorite time of year, and the first half this month has just been so beautiful and then last couple of days absolutely pouring with rain, torrential, and so it’s just what is going on? Apparently, there’s this thing called climate change, Ian, have you heard of this?

– [Ian] Apparently so, Craig and we’re sitting over an ozone hole as well I heard.

– [Craig] But apart from that it’s been great.

– [Ian] That’s right. It felt like sunshine one day and winter the next. Anyway our inbound thought of the week, Craig.

– [Craig] You know what you could almost say that the climate is facing disruption. Sorry. We’re gonna talk about disrupters aren’t we? Apologies, is that a dad joke? that was terrible.

– Yeah that was a dad joke. All right so you know at INBOUND, Brian gave his keynote and so did Dharmesh, and I actually, I got up to watch this, and I actually loved it. So there were five main things that he went through. I’m just gonna quickly go through all of them, so you can get out and see, but I would encourage people to actually take the time to go over to YouTube and watch the keynote. You will actually learn a lot from it.

– [Craig] I’ll just mention you don’t have to watch it I’ve listened to this. Like I’ve got the YouTube app, and I just listened on audio on the way home. It’s actually, you don’t really need the slides. There’s a few jokes and stuff in there that you get, but just listening to it, it could quite easily be a podcast, his keynote, which is very hard to do. It’s very hard to cover multiple mediums so that you can get a lot of value out of it just in audio, but then also being in present, it’s kind of enhanced. So full marks, this is a masterpiece in giving presentations, as is Dharmesh’s, who we’re gonna chat about next week.

– [Ian] Yeah and so really his keynote was about experienced disrupters, and all of these businesses, they’re all billion dollar businesses, and he kinda went through five things. The first one was these disrupters get experienced market fit. Number two they remove friction from the sales process. Number three they use personalization really well. Number four they sell through customers, and they attack their business models. So they don’t just stick to traditional business models. And then there was no mention of blockchain or AI in there Craig.

– [Craig] I think that was an interesting point ’cause he was talking about disruption and innovation, and yep, blockchain, AI and machine learning, they weren’t in any of his slides. Yeah it’s really about the experience, isn’t it and the model?

– [Ian] I don’t know whether I mentioned this on last week’s podcast but one of the things with selling through your customers, he was talking about an experience he had with his dog.

– [Craig] Oh yeah about the little T-shirt?

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] Actually that was all, well it kinda was selling through customers, but that was more around business buster, no, business model busting.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] Where, yeah, the T-shirt didn’t fit and then he said, oh, I contact them and they said oh, that’s fine, you keep the shirt, give it to a friend, and we’ll send you a new one. It’s like, how many people do that, besides Amazon? But yeah, how many companies? Well it’s kind of becoming more normal but this is the disruption, and the incumbents can’t do that, they can’t change their models quick enough. So yeah it was a really good example.

– [Ian] Yeah, and that was one of his things I think, was selling through your customers, where telling Brian to give that shirt to somebody else was actually them selling through him onto a friend of his, who then experience the product from that business.

– [Craig] Right, well he actually gave another example of selling through customers as well, which was, I think it was a cosmetics company, and he was talking about how a lot of the content and the views on YouTube are not actually the products’ companies but people that use their products, and basically talk about how awesome it is, and that is the way it’s selling the message and creating awareness, and yeah, selling through your customers in that way.

– [Ian] That’s right. Now we also have in there, IMPACT had a good round up of the keynote.

– [Craig] IMPACT Branding. Yeah they, and Carina Duffy, hey, shout out to Carina, we love Carina. Really good post covering keynote, actually.

– Both keynotes.

– [Craig] -Yeah, did a really good job, I’ve really found them valuable.

– [Ian] All right, Craig unto HubSpot marketing feature of the week.

– [Craig] Hey, before we do that, I just want to talk about the experience that I had, and continue to have with Amazon, because when I was listening to Brian’s keynote, I kinda felt like Amazon ticks a lot of those boxes.

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] And actually in the keynote, the talks about how they do actually talk with people like Amazon and Atlassian and things like that to get that kind of feedback about what’s a better model for selling. But I had this great experience with Amazon. So I read a lot of friction, ah friction!

– Friction really are you reading friction books, Craig?

– [Craig] I read a lot of fiction on my Kindle, as in the Kindle app. Anyway I tend to read those junky, you know, spy and action ones and detective stories. Anyway, I read this detective story, and the end was so bad, I hated it so much. I don’t use that word lightly, I hated this book, I hated it.

– I know, I’ve not heard you say that.

– [Craig] I had such a strong emotion because, I’m not gonna tell you the book, well maybe I should, but I’m not gonna, but, at the end of this detective story, the protagonist, she chasing the killer of two women. Finally, finds the killer, and the killer kills her and gets away with it.

– [Ian] Yeah right!

– [Craig] That was the end. In hindsight, the book was leading that way, it was kind of going down a dark path so to speak. And I’m like, I really hate that, and I felt like there’s hours of my life I’m not going to get back. Well, I’ll tell you what I did get back, I got back the price of that damn book, ’cause I got straight on to Amazon, and I said I want a refund for this outrageous book. And straight away I got a refund. No questions asked,

– Oh wow!

– Amazon just bang. And in fact, you can actually do it on the Kindle, you just log into Amazon, you just request a refund for this, they take it off your app and bang refund’s just… I love Amazon thank you. So even though there was no justice in that book, slight bit of justice in terms of getting my money back. Anyway that’s my disrupter story for you.

– [Ian] That just goes to show, that experience that you had, now you’ve just spoken about it to everybody, and you know, people are gonna go and start returning their Amazon books.

– [Craig] Well you can do it on Kindle, I wonder what they do with the paper. I have never tried this with Amazon to return a physical book. But can you imagine going into any bookstore, like Dymocks here in Sydney, and going, “I want to return this book”, “Why”, “I hated it”. I wonder if they’d give you a refund?

– [Ian] Maybe we should try that next week–

– [Craig] The bookstores of tomorrow will probably do it.

– [Ian] Yeah. All right now Craig, onto our marketing feature of the week, and this is about using your marking dashboard wisely, and why we’re talking about this is experiences with customers this week, but there are lots of reports you can add to the marking dashboard in HubSpot, and I think one of the key things is that you’ve gotta understand, with all of these reports, is what do you want to achieve? What do you wanna see, and what numbers really make sense to you? One of the things that we often do is have longer timeframes on certain reports. So one of the ones that I often put is the number of contacts that are created by month, and we look at this historically over time, so when we are talking to our customers, we can actually see over time, is inquiry consistent, and is it following a pattern? So when they go, “Oh, it’s really down this month”, I’m like, oh hang on let me go and check back the last two years of this same point in time and see whether there’s a correlation. And that really helps up understand, is it something that we’re doing or something that we’re not doing, versus something of the way the market and the business is operating, and that’s a really key insight. So I think, tip here is, understand what you want to achieve on these dashboards. Now, you can slice and dice this and do whatever you want, but have the information that’s important to you, and don’t be afraid to add some new reports. Like there are new reports that are being added all the time. Add them onto your dashboard, see how they’re performing, if you like them you can keep them, if you don’t like them get rid of them. But also you can click through to these reports and see the underlying data. That’s one of the biggest things that we have seen change in the reporting part of HubSpot recently, which has been a really good change.

– [Craig] So I’ll just ask you, do you have like a set of go-to reports that you have? Because one of the things I’ve found with clients when we go through the dashboard, when you go to add a report to it, or, I wish they’d call them widgets, but add a report to the dashboard–

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] You go in, there’s a list, there’s so many, and you can kinda get overwhelmed, and go, oh, maybe I’ll take that one and this. And then the other thing of course, you can do is those custom reports where you can have your own kind of dimensions in a way. Do you have a set of go-to’s? You’ve got a screenshot here in the show notes, but life cycle stages, sources, Have you–

– Correct. Yeah, they’re definitely ones. So marketing performance is one of them, and that’s pretty standard. Sessions by source, we do contacts, generated by day generally. Sometimes, if we’re looking at longer timeframes, by month. A new one that I like which they’ve put in there is the marketing influence revenue report. That’s quite good.

– [Craig] Go the extra.

– [Ian] We have by lifecycle stage that’s a really good one. There is like like stacks in the deals that I like seeing. I like to see time in deal stage, and to see whether the people are missing certain deal stages, that’s another one that I really enjoy. And in that whole, deal stage funnel, to understand where people are in that funnel as they’re going through. And what’s actually interesting, the default setting on that report, in the deal stage funnel, is that people have to actually pass through every stage of that funnel to actually show up. And that’s the default. Now if you check and you go hang on that doesn’t look right, it’s because this is a default setting. If you uncheck that, you will then start to see all the data flow through, because people can skip certain stages.

– [Craig] That’s a great, I remember that was a gotcha the week–

– [Ian] It was.

– [Craig] A fair while ago. You know we should’ve have a bit of a recap show where we pull out or best gotchas.

– Gotchas.

– [Craig] ‘Cause that was a beauty, that one.

– [Ian] Yeah so look, I think go with the standard to start off with, and then experiment with what you want. Over time, I’ve noticed businesses that we work with on a weekly basis, come back and say, oh look, I wanna know more about this, or what’s happening with that, and then I try to uncover a report that will ask that question or better understand how we can get to that data in a meaningful manner that they can use to make business decisions from.

– [Craig] Cool, what about just a straight contacts per day? Do you use that with many clients?

– Yeah I do.

– [Craig] That’s one of our certain go-tos because, especially if we’re doing this scheduled weekly report you know, and so listeners if you’re not familiar with this you can actually just share your dashboard to get automatically sent out as a PDF or an email, straight email, weekly, we normally set it up weekly for clients, and if you just got contacts for the week, it’s a great snapshot, they just get it first thing Monday morning, bang, oh okay, I don’t even log in or anything.

– [Ian] You know I’ll tell you one thing I do with one of our customers is, we check because certain leads that get generated are manually assigned because of the way they’re handled. And one thing we discovered that leads weren’t being assigned quick enough, so they’d appear and there was no contact owner. So I added this report to a dashboard that got emailed out every Monday morning to the head of the business, which said oh here are all the unassigned contacts.

– [Craig] So why, who, someone manually assigns them?

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] Why, what’s the reason in that case?

– [Ian] Okay so they have a national sales team. In certain states we were automating the assignment of leads to certain sales people, certain sales teams. There were a few different states that we couldn’t do that based on certain criteria that was a bit more complex than what we could achieve.

– [Craig] Right, gotcha.

– [Ian] So somebody in the office actually gets it and they go, oh yeah this should be, ’cause based on this, it may be this type of equipment, with this person experience it has to go over here, and we’ve just discovered that this wasn’t happening in a timely fashion. So I’ll actually said oh well, we’ll keep a tab on this. So I added this into the dashboard, and then you did their scheduled email every Monday morning, which sent this report to the head of the business.

– [Craig] You know what you could do? You could set up a list that is unassigned contacts, and you could trigger a workflow that anytime say, unassigned contacts goes over three, you could say triggers the workflow which sends an internal email, that basically says warning warning, there’s more than three unassigned contacts. Now of course as long as you’ve got that re-enrollment,

– Criteria.

– Criteria in place, you could just be going, and that person would just be then, knowing they were in strife, on top of that, bang there’s an email going out internally, and you can send it to key managers. That’d get them going.

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] That’d solve the problem right there.

– [Ian] You can just see here the different uses of the dashboards that we have, based on what we’re trying to achieve.

– [Craig] We could call them reprimand workflows. You know how you choose oh, contact, company, deal workflow, oh reprimand workflow. Someone’s KPI on the line here .

– [Ian] That’s right, and then you send them out a, what do you call it, what’s that survey thing?

– [Craig] Oh the MPS kinda survey.

– The MPS survey.

– [Craig] All right, moving on.

– [Ian] All right, onto the HubSpot sales pitch of the week, Craig, and this is diving into quotes on deals. Now why are we talking about this? Because…

– [Craig] Well you know what? I got a call from one of our clients. He was in an airport in the US coming back from a conference, called me and he said, “Oh, I’m just catching up on some work, “I’m looking at these quotes in HubSpot, “and I just want to shoot out a quick quote “to a client or prospect. “What do you think? “Are the quotes any good?” So that’s the call. Are quotes in HubSpot any good? So I thought is was worth having a bit of a chat about that on the show today to give you, here’s what I told him, these were my thoughts on it. And I said there’s pros and cons, ’cause we’ve kind a applied with it, but we haven’t embraced it. In fact, we still do most of our quotes out of Xero, as Xero quotes, cause then we can flip them into invoices pretty easily.

– [Ian] I thought you did Qwilr?

– [Craig] Qwilr for proposals.

– [Ian] Oh right, yes.

– But for quick quotes–

– For quick quotes out of, yes

– [Craig] We go out of Xero. Which has it’s own problems with scalability with my team and things like that. So we are looking to move quotes, simple quotes within HubSpot.

– [Ian] That’s interesting, because what’s gonna happen when we have a fantastic Xero HubSpot connection, Craig?

– [Craig] Well that’s what I’m waiting to see. And this was actually one of the things I highlighted. So, here’s the pros of quotes, and if you’re not familiar with this, it’s actually kinda hard to find. You go to a deal, and then it’s on your right-hand sidebar, and then you create a quote. Like, it’s tucked away. There’s no list so you can get a list of quotes or anything like that. It’s like just an attachment to a deal, and it’s hidden away. So there’s pros and cons. So, well, that’s almost one of the cons. I’ll come to that, but the pros are, really simple, got three little templates that they use, they’re all pretty good.

– [Ian] And they actually look really good.

– [Craig] – They do look good. And we’re using the modern one, so I’ve got a bit of a screenshot in the show notes about that. Simple to add contacts and products, and in fact once you’ve got a product can log in place, it actually becomes really good, I think. I’ll tell you another nice thing about quotes is you can add recurring and one off items, and it will give you subtotals, say oh here’s your cost today and here’s the recurring cost. I think that’s quite nice. Like, Xero won’t, it won’t handle that. E-signature is currently in Enterprise, but they’re gonna bring that down to Pro I think, in November. So I know a lot of people just have Sales Pro. So e-signature’s gonna be nice. Prospect can get, and approve.

– [Ian] And that buy button too Craig.

– [Craig] Yeah, oh, the buy button. But that’s on a product isn’t it? You don’t actually get the buy, oh, sorry, you mean the buy–

– No, you need Sales Pro to get the buy button.

– [Craig] Oh okay, got you yeah. So there’s the e-signature, and then there’s also the Stripe integration so that they can actually approve the quote and pay. So that’s nice. And here’s a nice little one. I’ve actually got this in the screenshot. As you’re preparing the quote, there’s two fields, one is payment terms and one is comments for the buyer. And you kinda have to manually type them in, but I saw there’s little snippets. So you can build snippets, HubSpot snippets, which can include personalization, I’ve tested this. Just go to snippet, bang, so I’ve actually got two snippets set up now, that’ll pre-fill comments and payment terms.

– [Ian] That’s a really smart tip, Craig.

– [Craig] It’s really not, it was just hidden out there. So that’s gold in a way. So that’s good. So they’re the pros. Let me tell you some of the cons. The main one is you can’t edit a quote after you’ve sent it. I find this infuriating. I assume there’s good reasons for it, but it’s probably the big thing stopping me. I can imagine if it’s been approved and accepted.

– [Ian] Well the thing is you can, right, if you look at, Well I was testing out PandaDoc, early this week. Like once you’ve sent that quote, you can actually go in and edit it, and it’ll show up as the different–

– [Craig] No not in HubSpot you can’t.

– [Ian] No, not in HubSpot. In PandaDoc.

– [Craig] Right, but that’s my point right? Cause in HubSpot you can’t,

– Exactly.

– You can’t edit a quote. In Xero we can. That’s probably the biggest barrier. As I was alluding to before, you can’t search for deals that have quotes. There’s no criteria or filtering. I actually contacted HubSpot Support about this. I said, “Look, how do we do it?” They came back and it’s kind of the path I was going down anyway, which is you create custom properties on the deals. So that’s what I do, and in our next gotcha of the week, I’ve talked about how I’ve implemented that. It doesn’t support tax automatically, so GST. You can add a tax line, but you manually have to calculate it, there’s no kind of tax codes or anything. It uses a HubSpot domain so you can’t use your own domain and everything. But that’s the same with Xero, it’s the same with a lot of tools actually. And there’s no protection on quotes on deals. So let’s say you, although, let’s say the deal is closed as one, you can still just go in and delete a quote. There’s no audit log, no trail or anything like that. So you can have quotes, I haven’t actually tried it if they’re paid, whether you can delete a paid quote. I’m gonna assume you can’t, but maybe you can. So there’s no real protection. So they’re some of the downsides. I assume they’ve got plans for it, so yeah. Anyway, that’s the summary of it. Did you have anything to add to that, Ian?

– [Ian] I was testing this for a customer, because they asked for, in their products, to have a image of the product, because they sell physical products. And you can’t actually do that, so that was one of the barriers with using this to get that done. And yeah, look apart from that, I love how simple it is to get going quickly. That’s one of the best things I’ve actually discovered by using this. So if you’ve got a pretty simple way you can do quotes and you just gotta get stuff out there, maybe you just need to get a one off payment or you need to simply get paid, It’s a great thing to use. It’s not a tax invoice.

– [Craig] That’s true, it’s not a tax invoice although it does include your ABN. If you’re in Australia that’s our tax ID. So one of the reasons that I like quotes in Xero is because someone approves it, and then I can immediately turn it into an invoice. Here I’m gonna have to manually, then go over to Xero. Which I would do normally if I had a proposal, say through Qwilr, anyway, but it just shortcuts that preparation piece. It doesn’t give you any benefit in terms of the overall process.

– [Ian] And there you have it listeners. There’ll be more on quotes later on.

– [Craig] Now we better rush along. I’ve been yabbering so much, we’re almost at time already, but shot four is really just around the gotcha of the week, which is to do with quotes, and that’s just to say what I’ve added is a custom deal property. I’ve made it a date picker, and what I manually have to do is when I send a quote, create a quote attached to a deal, I manually update this date field on the deal to say here’s when I created a quote. Now that’s only gonna work if you create one quote. If you create multiple quotes then you’re gonna have to have some other way. But yeah, it’s the way I get around it and then, of course, you can do filters or views on your deals. So I actually wanted to list how many deals have I got that have quotes on them? That’s the simple thing I wanted to do. So custom property is your friend there.

– [Ian] All right Craig, onto our Marketing Tip of the Week, and this is about Google announcement about changes to rel equals no follow, or, in other words, people that build links, or have people linking to their sites, because they might actually guest post on another site and have a link back to their site. There’s been a bit of hoo-ha this week about that and how Google’s gonna de-rank people’s sites, take it off and all sorts of things.

– [Craig] Who is saying that? Google’s not saying that, and in fact, no one in the SEO community that I respect is saying it. Where is all this misinformation coming from?

– [Ian] That’s a good question, because I got an email this afternoon with someone saying our site’s gonna disappear in March because, you know.

– [Craig] Oh my goodness. Look, listeners, if you’ve got no idea what we’re talking about, that’s actually fine. There’s nothing that you have to do. If you’re a bit more savvy on the SEO piece, and you understand the relevance of links, and perhaps your even actively trying to get links to your site, which you should, create good content, have other people link to it, that’s a very worthwhile exercise, we know that Google sees links as votes of confidence. Even then it won’t even affect you, but you’re just to be aware of it, And we’ve got in the show notes links to three key resources that I respect. I used to be an SEO consultant as many people know. So these are three resources you can read up about it. But for 95% of people, there’s nothing to do. And really, it’s like if you’ve got big media sites or things like that, you might wanna change. It’s a just a change to the rel equals no follow attribute in links, and they’ve got two new parameters that you can choose from. Full details in the show notes, but the summary, do not worry about it. There’s almost nothing you have to do.

– [Ian] All right, Craig, onto our insight of the week.

– [Craig] Well you know what we’re coming up to time. This is a blog post I write about why I’m not really sharing much on social, I’m doing a lot on my personal blog. So I’ll just leave the link, I won’t dive into it.

– [Ian] So I wanna read you five main reasons you’re doing this Craig.

– [Craig] Oh okay, go.

– [Ian] Number one is you have a permanent record of it. Number two you have a searchable record because you can search your blog, You can share the link loves, so that’s a good one. Time management, avoiding the timeline, time suck. I think that’s a really good one. And number five, mental health, avoiding the dopamine hit of social likes. And I think these are all valid points, and I totally agree. It’s like, we were in a little rabbit hole just before we started recording this, looking at stuff, and we were like, oh hang on, we need to get out of there and get on with the show. So I totally agree with you and it’s something that we’ve gotta constantly be aware and keep in check in our lives. All right Craig, onto our app of the week, and this is the Google Maps app.

– [Craig] You know, when you were showing me this, I was like, oh, this is the Google My Business app, ’cause it’s got all the Google My Business criteria and that, and you’re like, no, it’s the Google Maps app. So what’s the Google Maps app got?

– [Ian] I was doing this because I added in a new location for a customer of our, and then when I opened the app, the other day, I saw oh, it’s showing me the weather. Oh what else is there? And then I went on a little wander around and I discovered that all the data in basically Google My Business that’s available to a business is now appearing in the maps app. So if you search for something, a business for example, whatever data Google can pull off the listing, it’s gonna show you videos, it’s gonna show you a post, it’s gonna show your location, it’s gonna show your business hours, it’s gonna show your products that you have on there, some updates that you made. So it’s like it’s all there. People don’t have to leave and go somewhere else. They can find everything about your business right from the Google Maps app. So, my key thing is here, is make sure your Google My Business is actually up to date, and that you’ve checked it, with all the new features that are available, because it’s showing up in places that you’re probably now aware of.

– [Craig] We must sound like a broken record how much we talk about the importance of your Google My Business listing, but listeners, please, just get this in place. This is not a senior person required job, this is a junior co-coordinator piece. You just get a process, you gotta do it every week, update the Google My Business listing. We do this for all of our clients. It’s kinda the first thing we tick a box, gotta get the Google My Business. And seriously, it’s so easy. Like I think we schedule out things and organize, it takes an hour or two for each of our clients. It’s not a big task, and the amount of value they get. That’s the other thing, Google My Business listing, you see how many impressions and clicks it gets. And I compare this with companies that don’t do it, and then they spend all this money on a huge content strategy, I’m just like, get your Google My Business listing in place, you’ve just like, you’ve… Yeah, anyway, you get the point.

– [Ian] Yeah look, and I tell you it’s important because if you look at the Google stats, the number of people that do a search and then visit a local business, and the time frame, I think think it’s like, within hours of them doing a searching, trying to find a product or service and then visiting that local business. It’s not long between, and if you don’t have your information there, you ain’t around. So I would encourage you to do that. Now Craig, we’ve got some resource of the week, and a collection of famous speeches with transcriptions.

– [Craig] This is nothing to do with marketing. It’s just an awesome resource. So James Clear has put together famous speeches. I was watching J.K. Rowling’s Harvard commencement speech from 2008 thanks to this site highlighting it. Wonderful speech, just awesome content from really famous people giving really useful, insightful advice. Totally recommend it.

– [Ian] All right, Craig, onto our quote of the week. And this is from Sakichi Toyoda. “The more people use my inventions, “the better the country will be.”

– [Craig] And what were his inventions?

– [Ian] He’s the founder of Toyota Motor Company, Craig.

– [Craig] Wow, so cars.

– [Ian] So I mean obviously he’s got lean manufacturing and a whole bunch of other things that he’s come up with. But, you know what, I love cars, and I wanted a quote from somebody to do with automotive.

– [Craig] Fair enough, too.

– [Ian] And how I was relating this is, in marketing, we test and measure a lot of stuff. We talk about it on this show, and we share with a lot of people that we know and that we’re close to. And you know what? I never hold things with a closed fist, and I know you do the same, is that we are happy to share and happy to help others to get a better result.

– [Craig] Is that the expression? Hold it with a closed fist?

– [Ian] Yeah.

– [Craig] I’ve never heard that, that makes total sense. Wow, I love it when I learn things like that.

– [Ian] Well there’s the drop of wisdom for the day, Craig.

– [Craig] Sure is.

– [Ian] Well listeners, I hope that you have enjoyed this show and you’ve learned something. We would appreciate it if you could share with people that are close to you that would actually enjoy this. We would love you to also send us a message on Instagram, and we’d love to hear from you. Email us. Our details are on the site. If you wanna message us, we’d love to hear from you.

– [Craig] I think we’ve got it behind a form with multiple fields and a Captcha, and all kind, no we don’t, just contact us.

– And they’re also the people we don’t want to work with, right?

– [Craig] Just checking.

– [Ian] All right, I hope you guys have a great week. Until next week, see you later, Craig.

– [Craig] Catch you later, Ian.

– [Ian] Thank you for listening to this episode of HubShots. For show notes, resources, HubSpot news, including practical strategies you can implement, visit us at hubshots.com.

Episode 173: Inbound19 & the importance of having a 6-pack!

Welcome to Episode 173 of HubShots!

HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

This episode we chat about Inbound 2019 – some of the announcements and what we especially liked. Plus, why having a 6-pack is important.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/173-inbound19-the-importance-of-having-a-6-pack/

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD3Uo4X-IxPJLE8ygPDQhNQ

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Recorded: Tuesday 09 September 2019 | Published: Friday 20 September 2019

Shot 1: Inbound Thought of the Week

Thoughts on the product announcements…


The awesome:

  • Facebook Messenger integration with Conversations
  • Forms integration with Conversations
  • Buy now button coming on Products
  • Landing pages coming to Starter
  • Starter will have 3 follow up emails
  • Workflow Go action
  • Sales Quotes are getting better (and bringing some Enterprise features to Pro)

The other:

  • App Marketplace experience
  • Workflow folders

Dharmesh keynote:


Brian keynote:


Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Connect Facebook Messenger with HubSpot Conversations



Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Removing friction.  How can we do that in sales?

In Brian’s keynote, he spoke about these 2 things in the 5 points he had.

  1. Removing Friction
  2. Personalising

How are we removing friction from our sales process?

Are we making it easy for people to deal with our business?  Can they find what they need and buy what they need without going through a long sales process?

He mentioned the companies that disrupt use data well to personalise.

Also with great data comes great power, but great responsibility comes with it too!

Shot 4: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

Workflow Go action is not yet in Contact Workflows.

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

Make your home page URL clean





If you don’t use just the clean URL you will confuse Google.

Often Google won’t give you a 6-pack for your brand term

You ideally want Google to show a 6-pack so it takes up more of the page:

xen systems   Google Search

Shot 6: Insight of the Week

The Group Chat trend



Interesting insights from Andreessen Horowitz around the rise of Group Chats as a path to transactions.

The article predominantly covers WeChat trends in China, but is applicable to many messenger apps including WhatsApp and FB Messenger, albeit with some privacy differences.

In a nutshell, the Group Chat approach involves dedicated ‘concierge’ admins who help members with questions. Often on a path to purchase.

A few key insights:

  • groups are often small: 500 people max, and usually less than 200
  • are often invite only (ie no public way of finding them)
  • or are otherwise word of mouth (they aren’t promoted)
  • they prioritise safety (often members are private, using aliases instead of real names/phone numbers, etc)
  • history of messages is only available from the point of joining ie a new member can’t see the history of previous questions
  • the groups grow relationships and trust
  • product recommendations are highly likely to be followed
  • products are added in the chats, with a link to purchase
  • the groups also allow group buying options which result in cheaper per item prices based on increasing group purchase quantity
  • the focus is on personal service, and not on technology to automate the chats

This is interesting from a number of points, and highlights that technology is still lagging in terms of delivering automated chat experiences. It is clear that embracing a conversational commerce approach requires more personal resources. Using automated technology actually destroys trust and value (at least currently).

All the bigger brands I interact with via chat, are definitely people driven (as opposed to chat bot). This requires significant resource, and is a factor to be weighed carefully when potentially adding to your marketing strategy.

Shot 7: Gold of the Week

How to turn blatant copying of your site into a promotion for your services:


Shot 8: Tweet of the Week

When Google puts 4 paid ads ahead of the first organic result for your own brand name:


Shot 9: Quote of the Week

“How they sell that is how they win.”

  • Brian Halligan (from 2019 Inbound keynote)

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week


Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

Episode 173: Inbound19 & the importance of having a 6-pack!

– [Ian] Hi everyone, welcome to HubShots episode 173. In this episode, we talk about Inbound19 and the importance of having a six-pack. You’re listening to Asia-Pacific’s number one HubSpot focus podcast. Where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks, and features and strategies for growing your marketing and sales results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found, and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. How are you, Craig?

– [Craig] Ah, really good. And wow, 2019, just finished. We’re recording this on Tuesday, September 10. You’re supposed to be just back from Inbound, but what actually happened?

– [Ian] I didn’t go, Craig.

– [Craig] So, just at the last minute?

– That’s right.

– You had to cancel.

– [Ian] Canceled. Selling was more important?

– [Craig] That’s right. Sell better. But, in spite of not attending you did get, and we both got, a bit of a taste of what happened at Inbound,

– That’s right–

– And we we’re looking forward to chatting with some of our friends. Actually about next HubSpot user group.

– Exactly.

– We’re hearing all about it and also sharing some of the experiences. But, how did you experience Inbound 2019?

– [Ian] I set my alarm for 3 a.m. And got up to listen to Brian and Dharmesh, that’s how it happened.

– [Craig] And what did you think of their keynotes?

– [Ian] To be honest, I really enjoyed Brian’s keynote and Dharmesh’s keynote. And then I waited half an hour to listen to Christopher O’Donnell deliver the product updates.

– [Craig] Well, we’re gonna talk about some of those product updates in a second, but I haven’t actually watched the keynotes yet, from Dharmesh and Brian. I’m looking forward to those, although I am seeing Dharmesh is just getting rave reviews everywhere, talking about how awesome it was. So, my expectations are high, I’m looking forward to that.

– [Ian] Yeah, so listeners I encourage you to, we’ll put the links to the videos, take some time to actually go and listen to them and write some notes because there is absolute gold in there in how you can transform your business.

– [Craig] We’re gonna unpack those in future episodes. So we’ll do Dharmesh next week and then maybe Brian the week after. But on to some of the announcements. And so, Chris O’Donnell mentioned a few and there’s been actually a good blog post, I actually think they did a good recap video which we’ve got in the show notes.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] Let’s chat about some of the things we’re gonna call, there’s the good and the bad, well, we’re gonna call it the awesome and the other. Let’s talk about some of the awesome things that we liked.

– [Ian] First one is the Facebook Messenger integration in Conversations. I think that’s fantastic.

– [Craig] This is in beta now. I was lucky enough to get the beta, so we’ve got this connected for one of our companies.

– Yes.

– And it’s really good. It works really well. So, we’ve got links in the show notes, in fact, that’s gonna be our marketing tip of the week in a second.

– [Ian] Second one being forms integration with conversations. So, again, this is another great one. Support forms can go straight into conversations.

– [Craig] I’m really liking conversations and I really like how it’s, I think you get it in the free tier as well. Do you get forms in the free tier?

– [Ian] Yes, I think you do. I actually just tried to test it on a free account that we have.

– [Craig] And I’m pretty sure you get Facebook Messenger as well. Like, this tool, the free tool, I can’t believe how much value there’s getting in it and, well, that brings us onto another thing that’s coming into, well actually not in the free, but in starter.

– [Ian] It’s how to start better with landing pages, Craig.

– [Craig] They’re bringing landing pages into starter.

– [Ian] Now we’ve spoken about this a lot of times. And I think one of the key things with this landing page tool is the drag and drop editor. Like the new email editor is gonna be the landing page editor, which will be really interesting to use, actually. And I think a great experience for people that are just starting like, what a great way to start.

– [Craig] You know what, we’re gonna have to go back to whatever, what was that episode when we talked about our marketing stack? I can’t, was it episode 145,

– Yeah.

– [Craig] Something like that. Where we talked about all the tools we use together to have our basic marketing stack. And there was Mailchimp and then another landing page tool, and then HubSpot started. Basically, we’re gonna have to review all that and basically replace them all with HubSpot starter.

– [Ian] Absolutely.

– [Craig] Because one of the other things coming in HubSpot starter is you get three, not so much automated, but they’re like a sequence. Mini-automation, in a way. Three follow-ups from a form submit, so that’s coming. I actually haven’t seen that part yet, so I’m looking forward to seeing how that’s implemented.

– [Ian] All right, and then the other one is the Workflow on the Go action, in Workflows–

– Now which

– [Ian] Which we’ve tested out.

– [Craig] We chatted about this last week and we’ll talk about in the Gotcha of the Week ’cause it’s not in contacts yet, it’s in companies, deals, and ticket work flows. But this is an awesome, much-wanted and long overdue feature.

– [Ian] And there is the Sales Quotes. And in Sales Professional actually getting the e-signature and one more which we didn’t have in the show notes which is a Buy Now button, being able to actually create a Buy Now button integrated with Stripe and create that within HubSpot with what looks to be minimal fuss, and I’m really looking forward to that one.

– [Craig] Yeah, so that’s good. Now, they’re the awesome things. I just wanted to make a comment, ’cause this came up in the WhatsApp group as well.

– Yes.

– Someone was saying was the kind of product announcement, was it a bit underwhelming? And I felt it was. What were your thoughts, Ian?

– [Ian] It wasn’t like last year where we had new products. We had a sleuth of new things. Like, very visionary, I guess. This year’s been all about cementing that base, I think, and making things work better.

– [Craig] I think that’s right. It’s almost like the Apple iPhone releases, they’d have a big advance one year and then the next year it’s just the “S” version which is kinda the just refinement, I kinda feel. I kinda feel like last year was the massive, was the iPhone X for HubSpot and this year was–

– XS.

– [Craig] Oh yeah, tweak a bit. I’ll give you an example. From stage, Christopher O’Donnell promoted that they’ve put in folders into Workflows. Like, that is just I can’t see why that warrants mention from the stage in a major keynote. It’s like that was the extent that they had to talk about. And I guess that’s it, I can’t wait to see what happens next year. But yeah this was, it was very much a consolidation and kind of refinement piece and the tools are much, they are getting so much better. Even things like the quotes tool that deals in the sales side of things, just really nice now. So yeah, lots of refinement.

– [Ian] And also the new app marketplace experience I mean I’ve been using that a little bit and I think it’s a good initiative and it’s actually been pretty well done.

– [Craig] It’s just getting nice to use. It’s nicer to use. Like, it’s not a big jump, there’s nothing major about it. I mean, there’s a lot more people or apps in the marketplace. But it’s just a nicer experience.

– [Ian] All right, Craig. And on that note, do you realize it’s four years since we started this podcast?

– [Craig] I didn’t realize. Four years? Of course it is! Inbound, of course.

– [Ian] It was a week after Inbound when we returned to Sydney.

– [Craig] Ah, the time.

– [Ian] Happy anniversary, Craig.

– [Craig] Happy anniversary, Ian, thanks.

– [Ian] I hope your beverage is nice and warm.

– [Craig] And thank Thank you again for forcing me to do this. We’ve told this story before on the show but yeah, at Inbound four years ago you said, “We’ve gotta do a podcast.” I was like, “I dunno if I can do a podcast. “Would anyone listen to it?” Well, you forced us to do it. We were terrible at first, we’re better, I don’t know if we’re great or good yet, but we’re getting better and certainly I, we both really value it and hopefully you listeners get some value out of the show as well!

– [Ian] Yeah, and thank you to all of the friends we’ve made along the way. And have become kind of an integral part of our businesses and lives. So, we appreciate all of you guys. Thank you. All right, Craig, onto HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week and this is connecting Facebook Messenger with HubSpot Conversations.

– [Craig] We’re just following on from what we said in the first shot about this feature. It is so easy to use, it’s very slick. So, all you do, you’re in conversations, by the way this is part of the beta, so you gotta sign up for the beta. I signed up for it and I got it pretty much a day later.

– [Ian] And I also think if you create a new HubSpot account, because I’ve created some new HubSpot accounts, it’s available in there as well.

– [Craig] Okay, even better. So, you basically, from your Conversations inbox, you go to inbox and you go “Add another channel” you go “Facebook Messenger” Tick. It prompts and it opens up and says, “Tell me which Facebook page to connect to.” You just choose it, and then it’s in there. Then you pop back into your actual Facebook page and you might set that your main CTA to be a Messenger thing. Tested it, basically. Bang, that opens Messenger and you’re straight into HubSpot. Here’s the great thing of course, if you’ve got the Slack integration, that Messenger thing goes into your conversation in HubSpot which goes into your Slack channel. So, again, you’re just replying to Facebook Messenger things from your Slack channel that you’ve denoted. It’s so good. I find this is the way it should be. Really easy, reduces all the friction. A joy to use.

– [Ian] Yeah, so our tip to people out there that are actually using Facebook Messenger would be to connect this in and manage it better in the Conversations inbox. Or to give Sales the ability to manage it from the inbox. All right, Craig, onto our HubSpot Sales Feature. I want to talk about removing friction and this really stemmed from Brian’s keynote at Inbound 2019. Now he had five points that he spoke about, but I just wanna highlight two from there. One was removing friction and he talked about businesses that are being disruptors, right? And why they have grown and all the examples he used were billion dollar plus businesses. How they’ve been disrupting and winning. And two of the things he used was, one was removing friction from the whole sales process. And the other, two, was personalizing. So, personalizing experiences. So, I wanted to talk about how do we remove friction from our sales process? Now you need to really think about this and are we making it easy for people to deal with our businesses? Can they find what they need and can they buy it without actually interacting with us? What can we automate in that process of buying? Now I think that Buy button that’s being introduced that’s a great great step. And he also talked about companies that use data really well to personalize. So, understanding what they’re doing, when they’re doing it and using that data to appropriately talk to them or give them what they need at the right time. And he also said, you know, with great data comes great power, and great responsibility comes with that too. And that is absolutely true. You can see, you can see what’s going on in the media with people like Facebook, Google, and so on, like, data security is essential. But you know there is a lot of it around is how do we use it appropriately? And he was talking, he gave lots of experiences. One of the experiences I liked, and this might not relate directly to what I’ve spoken here, but he was talking about, he buys dog treats from a particular online store which gets delivered every week. He ended up buying a Superman shirt, I think it was. For his dog, whose name I’ve forgotten.

– [Craig] Romeo.

– [Ian] Romeo, that’s right. Have to bring Milo in. Milo and Romeo. And he was saying, so he ordered the shirt, it was too small. So he rings up customer service. So this is a I guess, a point of friction that people would have. Rings up customer service thinking they’re gonna say, “Send it back. “And then we’ll send you the other one.” Anyway, this is what he got. They were like, “Oh no, that’s okay Brian. “If you want, just give that shirt “to one of your friends that has a dog, “that it’ll fit and we’ll just “send another one right now.” And he was like, “Oh, okay.” And then he gave it to one of his friends, I think who had a dog, spoke about his whole experience and now they’ve just gained another customer for life, out of his friend. And you just think about the experience he’s had. He hasn’t had to go through this rigamarole of “Ah, let’s go to the post office, “now I gotta post this back to this person.” All of that’s gone out the window. So, just understanding that, is a key thing, right? He had heaps of stories. But I wanted, understand for us and for your businesses, if you’re a listener, what is a process people are going through dealing with us and are we doing some stuff because we’ve always done it or because that’s what we’ve been taught to do? Or have we actually thought about what is it like to deal with us as a person or a business and how does the other person feel? I think that’s what it comes down to. How do I make it feel like they’re dealing with a friend?

– [Craig] That’s so well put and such a good example. And customer service, yeah, delivered there. It’s kind of the Amazon experience, isn’t it? We all need to emulate that. That’s become the table stakes in a way.

– [Ian] All right, Craig, onto HubSpot Gotcha of the Week. And this is the Workflow Go actions, which we spoke about in the last episode.

– [Craig] Yes, it is. So, we love the Go action in Workflows. It means you can tie branches together.

– [Ian] And, you know what, it got me this week when I was trying to find it in contact workflow

– [Craig] This is the thing. ‘Cause everyone’s so keen to use it, they’re like “Ah.” And of course, the first thing they try to do is use it in a contact workflow. Well in fact, so as I said we’re recording this on the 10th of September, it’s not in Contact Workflows yet, it’s in Companies, Deals, and Tickets.

– [Ian] But it is coming.

– [Craig] It is coming and I can’t wait. ‘Cause that is, that is a feature of the year. Folders in workflows? Not doing it for me. Go action in workflows? Yes.

– [Ian] All right, Craig, and onto our Marketing Tip of the Week.

– [Craig] Yes, this is the importance of having a six-pack and, I’ll tell you how that, we’re talking of course about the Google six-pack which is when you, say, search for your brand name and you see not only your first result, but then six other site links there, so we’ve got a screenshot example in the show notes of this in action. The reason this has come about is because we’ve seen some HubSpot agencies, I haven’t seen it with other companies, it’s only HubSpot agencies, where their homepage doesn’t have the slash, like, just the default URL. They have their homepage set to something like brand name dot com AU, or brand name dot com slash

– [Ian] Inbound marketing agency.

– [Craig] Inbound marketing agency or Digital marketing agency like as the URL. And I’m not sure why they do it. Someone’s probably read a blog post somewhere that said you should have keywords in your. Anyway, it’s bad advice. Your homepage should just have the root URL. And the reason is because it confuses Google. And so, we didn’t want to I guess point the finger at people, but there’s a couple of agencies around Sydney, HubSpot agencies where they’ve, they haven’t got this root URL, they’re got this long URL as their homepage, and they don’t have a six-pack for their brand. And, well, what are the reasons you would want to have a six-pack, Ian?

– [Ian] Well, firstly, let’s take up more space on that search page, Craig. Like if you just look at it, the amount of real estate you can take up there is another, probably, one and a half results, let’s put it that way, on that page right next to your local listing. So, I would liken this, these six-packs to having six site links in your Google Ads, which is almost identical, you could almost mimic exactly that.

– [Craig] That’s right. So if you want to check, just type your brand name into Google, search for your brand. And if you’re not getting at least seven links, your main link and then your six-pack, then there’s work to be done.

– [Ian] Correct. And just have a look and see how that’s working because there’s a massive opportunity there for you to actually do that. All right, Craig, onto our Insight of the Week, group chat trend.

– [Craig] Another really good post from Andreessen Horowitz in their, I guess, insights into digital trends. And this one’s about the group chat and again looking at behaviors in China. And the rise of what I’ll call the concierge group chat. So these are private groups, could be on WhatsApp, well these are often in WeChat, could be in WhatsApp, could be in…

– [Ian] Messenger?

– [Craig] Could be in Messenger. What’s the other one I’ve just had a mental blank with? Telegram and other messaging apps like that.

– [Ian] Yep.

– [Craig] So these are private groups, they’re often invite only, they’re not publicly available. In some ways you could say our WhatsApp group is like this.

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] It’s not really publicly findable, unless you see a link from us. It’s normally invite-only, you’re normally booted out as soon as you start spamming.

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] Or are obnoxious in the group.

– [Ian] Which we’ve done.

– [Craig] Which we have done, yes. And it’s a safe space and here’s the key, though. It’s the entree to e-commerce and transactions. So basically, brands are setting these up. Very much the case in China. Set up brands especially for people traveling and going abroad, they’re asking questions of what’s this? Good examples in this article about “What adapter should I use here, “I’m in another country.” “How can I find this?” And then, often, “What should I use to do” and products are promoted and they’re sold and it’s like this, the barriers are down, you’re not being sold too. You have a need that’s being answered right there. Okay, I’m just gonna click the buy link and buy it. And so that’s it. It’s the pathway to transactions. So this is an excellent article about–

– [Ian] To reduce friction.

– [Craig] About reducing friction, but also behavior trends that are changing and that as marketers we need to be aware of. So this advertising on the newsfeed in Facebook, sure, keep doing that, but we’ve gotta be aware of all these other channels and, some of them you can’t even get into. So it’s not an advertising play, it’s actually a provide value play. And the key takeaway I had from this is that you need a lot more resources. This isn’t something you just outsource to an agency or if it is, here’s an opportunity for agencies to be actually providing that service authentically. It’s a resource-heavy piece and so this is where brands will have an advantage, that if you’ve got the bigger, kind of, base across customer support, this is a channel where it’s a first mover advantage for sure before this becomes mainstream.

– [Ian] Gold.

– [Craig] Speaking of gold.

– [Ian] What is the gold of the week, Craig?

– [Craig] This is an article on Medium right. It’s about a health company, actually to do with doctors, where they had a form, online form that you fill out. And one of their main competitors completely copied every single element of the form completely with spelling mistakes, the questions they asked, like there’s a whole bunch of questions, takes you through a series of forms. Gotta read this article, ’cause they’re just pointing the finger. But it’s written so well, ’cause they said: “Thank you so much. “We take this as such a compliment, “it’s so encouraging to see that “you’ve just copied every single decision we made. “It’s obvious that we have done it right and well. “However, here’s a few things that you didn’t copy “which we do recommend in addition, “because your clients will love this as well “’cause we know ours do. So, recommend.” It’s written so well. And it’s kinda like, this is the promotion of the week for this brand. Anyway, it’s an article on Medium, it’s gone in the show notes, go and check it out, it’s classic.

– [Ian] All right, and the tweet of the week, Craig? “When Google puts four paid ads ahead of your first organic result, for your own brand name.”

– [Craig] This blew up on Twitter. Jason Fried, from Basecamp, talking about how he has to bid on his own brand name to appear, and lamenting that there’s four other ads ahead of his first organic result. And they’re all competitors bidding on his brand name. Now, we’ve known about this for years.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] And we kind of use it with our clients. It’s kind of one of those unfortunate things that happen in Google, so you’ve gotta embrace it. But to many people not aware of this, they’re appalled by it!

– [Ian] So let’s read this ad, I was quite amused by the ad. And I was actually surprised it was able to run, but anyway. It says, so this is the ad headline, it says, “Basecamp.com. “We don’t want to run this ad. “We are the number one result, “but this site lets companies advertise against us, “using our brand. “So here we are, a small independent co., “forced to pay ransom to a giant tech company.”

– [Craig] When you read this, of course there’s hundreds of replies, and replies to a lot of them, he couldn’t even use the word “Google” in his ad to say “Google won’t let us run ads here” He had to say “This site.” He couldn’t actually say “Google.” So, the hypocrisy. In a sense like, oh no, you can’t say anything detrimental about the Google brand, but of course Google will let lots of other brands sit ahead of you in the search result. So it’s great. And I think it’s good, it’s a barometer of people’s–

– Correct.

– [Craig] I guess frustration with huge tech companies, in a way.

– [Ian] All right, Craig, and our Quote of the Week? And this is from Brian Halligan, from his 2019 Inbound keynote, and this really stood out to me, it says, “How they sell is how they win.” All right, there’s some Bonus Links of the Week.

– [Craig] There was one just talking about, this was just a WordPress plugin. You know how Chrome supports lazy–

– [Ian] Lazy loading?

– [Craig] Yeah. So there’s a plugin that will actually, you pop on WordPress and it’ll go through and make sure that they are all set, mostly images, to lazy load. So, even faster performance.

– [Ian] And we’d love you to share this podcast with anybody that is using HubSpot or is considering using HubSpot as that would greatly help us. So, thank you, listeners, for another great year as we finished four years of podcasting and we enter another one. I hope you’ve been enjoying listening to us And until next time?

– [Craig] Catch you later, Ian.

– [Ian] See you, Craig.

– [Craig] Hey there, thanks for listening to this episode of HubShots. For show notes and the latest HubSpot news and tips, please visit us at hubshots.com.

Episode 172: Sales workflows, clean lists, persona challenges, billboards

Welcome to Episode 172 of HubShots!

Welcome to HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

We hope you enjoy the podcast as much as HubSpot’s CEO, Brian Halligan does.

This episode we chat through sales workflows, keeping contact lists clean, challenges with personas, plus advertising on billboards.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/172-sales-workflows-clean-lists-persona-challenges-billboards

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD3Uo4X-IxPJLE8ygPDQhNQ

Subscribe to our Spotify channel here: https://open.spotify.com/show/7oee8w41riN5aRNrLKT2ar

Join the Facebook group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/hubshots/

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Follow us on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/hubshotspodcast/

Follow us on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hubshots/

Recorded: Wednesday 04 September 2019 | Published: Saturday 14 September 2019

Shot 1: Inbound Thought of the Week

We are recording this on the start of Inbound, and since you are listening to this after Inbound there will be a bunch of new product announcements to go through.

With that in mind, we’re not going to focus on features this episode, instead we’re going to mainly focus on ways to use HubSpot to improve your business.

Love drinking coffee that’s kept at the right temperature. Thanks Ember mug! Listen to shot 7 in Episode 163 for more details:


Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Keeping your contact lists clean to improve email deliverability. It is important to segment your contacts.

To clean up your contact lists, use any of the following contact properties to get more context about their original source and why they’re engaging with your business.

  • Create date
  • Last email date
  • Recent conversion date
  • Last form submission
  • Last email opened
  • Last email clicked
  • Last reply
  • Last date purchased
  • Last activity date

If your contacts are more than one year old, run a re-engagement campaign to confirm that they are still interested in your content and hearing from you.  Also would be worth running them through NeverBounce as an additional check.

Did you know? A spam complaint rate of 0.1% on a single email is a red flag that will increase your chances of bouncing or landing in the spam folder.


Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Creating deals using workflows.  As an example, you can create a deal when you get to a particular deal status.

Tip: think about what information you want in the deal specifically if sales are working on it.


Shot 4: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

Associating deal activities.  If you create them from a workflow they won’t have the associated activity to start.  So be aware of this.


Special shout out to Joy from HubSpot support.

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

Using Billboards

0 BdPOu4IfzEGuXS G(in an Inboundy way of course)

What we take away from this:

  • If Brian did not live and work in San Francisco for a month he would not have had that revelation about billboards
  • He learned is that there are some clever ways to measure effectiveness.
  • He learned they need to keep them very simple.


Shot 6: Insight of the Week

Mapping your personas to ad targeting

You can prepare your personas in a number of ways. Often they are based on roles or function (ie job titles or department), however they can also be approach based, as well as

For example, some clients use approach based personas eg

  • Innovator / Early Adopter
  • Collaborator
  • Analytical / Functionality


This is all fine in terms of preparing content and messaging. But can be challenging when preparing targeting for ad campaigns eg how do you target an innovator on Facebook?

These personas end up needing an extra level of mapping. And usually this needs to include titles and interests.

Some further reading:



Shot 7: Podcast of the Week

2Bobs with David C Baker and Blair Enns


We love David C Baker:


Shot 8: Shoutouts of the Week

Glenn Miller  from Lupo Digital


Zoe Palmer from Brand Chemistry:


Shot 9: Quote of the Week

Advice for modern marketers.  Automate the buying process.  Users are expecting you to automate their processes.  They want a self-service experience with your company.

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week


Tools to try


Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

Episode 172: Sales workflows, clean lists, persona challenges, billboards

– [Ian] Hi everyone! Welcome to HubShots episode 172. We talk about sales work flows, keeping your list clean, persona challenges and billboards. You’re listening to Asia Pacific’s number one HubSpot focus podcast, where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks, reaches and strategies for growing your marketing and sales results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found, and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. How are you, Craig?

– [Craig] Man, I am so good, I am so pumped up on caffeine and sugar tonight, I gotta tell you. And when I’m drinking my tasty beverage, oh my goodness, the temperature is just perfect.

– [Ian] What temperature’s that, Craig?

– [Craig] Well, I’ve set it at 62.5 degrees on my app on my phone, ’cause I now have an Ember mug. That’s right!

– [Ian] Now listeners, we’ve spoke about this Ember mug in some previous episodes, but before I go along I just wanna say happy birthday, Craig.

– [Craig] I wanna say thank you Ian, and thank you for my Ember mug. That was an awesome surprise today, so I feel very, very lucky, and, as a result, caffeinated up with tasty beverage at, what time is it? Coming up to eight o’clock at night, so yeah.

– [Ian] All right, listeners. Now, you’re listening to this episode. When this comes out, INBOUND 2019 will have gone and INBOUND 2020 will be on its way, and next year it’s actually gonna be in August.

– [Craig] Yeah, that’s right, but by the time you hear this, inbound for 2019’s all over so we’re thinking, well, tonight’s not much use if we talk about some latest HubSpot feature because there’s gonna be a ton more released over the week so we’ll chat about that in upcoming episodes. Instead, what we’re really just gonna focus on is ways to use HubSpot, I guess, from an approach-based, as opposed to specific functions.

– [Ian] That’s right. Do you want to move onto our HubSpot marketing feature of the week, Craig? Now this is really something key, that we see often, following the last episode where I got myself into trouble with some unclean lists, I thought it’d be really good to highlight the importance of segmentation of your lists and also creating lists to make sure that we are engaging with people that are actually engaged with our businesses. So there’s some really good things and there’s a support article there that I want to highlight. But to keep your contact list clean, you know, there are lots of properties in HubSpot that you can actually create lists out of, so, you know, when they were created, when the last email date, the recent conversion day, the last time they submitted a form, the last time they opened an email, they clicked a link, they replied etc. So there are lots of things you can do. One of the things that they suggest if contacts are more than a year old, is to run a reengagement campaign to confirm that they still are interested in hearing from you. I would also go another step and say run it through NeverBounce and as an additional check. And this is not a hard thing to do. It’s very easy to actually connect to NeverBounce to HubSpot, because it is a platform, and it can connect, so you can run the check through NeverBounce and then push the data back into HubSpot. And I wanna also say, did you know this, and I didn’t know this, a spam complaint rate of .1% on a single email is a red flag that will increase your chance of bouncing or landing in the spam folder.

– [Craig] .1%? I did not realize it was that tight.

– [Ian] That’s right, and that’s why I called it the Did You Know.

– [Craig] Oh, this segment? Nice, interesting. Yeah, well some good ways to break down segmentation there and I like the warm-up campaign, but yeah, behavior-based, it’s based on how they interact. You’ve got some examples here in the show notes, but well, last emailed they opened and how many emails, pages they visit, all those kinds of things so they’re good indicators of intent.

– [Ian] Now Craig, onto our HubSpot sales feature of the week, and this is really about optimizing sales process. We want to highlight this because not a lot of people might be aware but you can actually create deals using work flows. Example, how we do this for a customer is when a contact gets a particular lead status, we might then wanna just start tracking that in deals, so we kick off a deal work flow to create the deal at that point in time. We copy a lot of the information that we might have collected from the contact originally into the deal. That’s actually required by sales, so that they don’t have to keep going backwards and forwards. So that’s something else we’re doing. Now, the caveat here is make sure the properties you’re copying are of the same type.

– [Craig] So when you say the same type, what do you mean?

– [Ian] Example, I was doing one recently, one of the properties I was copying was actually a multiselect. Except when I created the property on the deal site, I just said it was a single entry field, and then it flagged it that there was a problem, so it needs to be identical to be able to do the copy across.

– [Craig] It’s a good example. Look, this is a really good tip, actually, creating deals from So, give you an example, it might not just be fill out a contact form, ah, create a deal, that might be a bit premature. But let’s say they go through and they might have requested a quote or you’re getting them very close to purchase, you wanted to automate as much as possible. Gee, we should have a quote about that in the show, at the end. But really, if you can get them to that point and set up in HubSpot, what you can actually do, they fill out the form, they put a whole bunch of details, okay, creates the deal, you can set the name based on who they are, and then you can also set internal notifications, so that might not go to you, it might go to someone in sales, might go to someone else, perhaps in delivery and things like that. So automating all those thing is a really good idea and deals is just one part of it that helps you not only automate your business, saves time, but actually reduces missed opportunities. Plus I get captured right there and then.

– [Ian] Now, onto our HubSpot gotcha of the week, Craig.

– [Craig] Firstly, shoutout to Joy at HubSpot support. She did a great job at answering this question for me. Back onto creating deals from work flows, I was doing this and I wasn’t seeing any activity. So generally when you create a deal when you’re in a contact, you’ll actually end up seeing, if you’ve got your settings correct, you’ll end up seeing all of the activity in the timeline on the deal. So I’d done this and then I went to the deals. I’m like, “Where is this? It just looks empty.” Anyway, there’s a knowledge-based article here about why that happens and how to, I guess, get around it or maybe how to fix it if you need to, but it’s not readily apparent when you’re doing this. So you can associate multiple activities on a deal ticket, or associate single activities, and it’s based on the record so you can actually associate those records to that deal, if you want it to show up. So just be aware of that.

– [Ian] Right, so just so I understand this, you’re saying if you manually create a deal, you get that option to associate recent activity, 30 days of activity, emails, etc., to the deal. But if you do that from a work flow, you don’t get that option.

– [Craig] You’re right, so bit of a gotcha there, okay.

– [Ian] All right Craig, onto our marketing tip of the week.

– [Craig] To be done in an INBOUNDy way, no doubt, Ian.

– [Ian] That’s right, and this is about using billboards. Now, I thought this was rather interesting. This is an article that Brian Halligan has written on Medium, and he talked about using billboards, why it helps but actually using billboards. So, I thought it was really well written. Like, he had kinda gone through the whole process about why he thought it was a good idea. And not just he thought but he actually took him back to the business and they discuss it. But I thought there were kinda three key take aways that I got from this that he had mentioned in this article. Now, he’s gonna write a follow up after this post the billboard being up for a couple of months, and then he’s gonna report back. But here’s the three that I got. If Brian did not live and work in San Francisco for a month, he would actually not have had this revelation about billboards and how important they were, in San Francisco and in the community that he was targeting. He learned that there are some clever ways to measure the effectiveness of billboards as well, which he didn’t actually mention how, but he said he’d discovered them in the journey. Number three, he learned that the message that they did, although the billboard, needed to be kept very simple, because people just don’t have time. So just think of the purpose of the billboard, and he goes, it had to be super simple. So literally all they have on the billboard, it says, “Your sales team will love you.” That is it. And they’ve got “HubSpot CRM, Grow Better” on the bottom, which is quite small, but that is the key message here. I’d encourage you to read the article because it kind of opens your mind up. I mean, we do all this stuff in the digital space, what other channels are we missing in the market that we’re targeting, because we’re not actually looking at it from a customer perspective.

– [Craig] I think this is really interesting as well. By the way, we’ve got a screenshot in the show notes of the billboard, what it looks like, and it is very simple. It’s cool. I’m really interested in this kinda thing. It’s offline, as we would say. But I was actually looking at not so much big billboards, but actually the digital billboards you see around, ’cause we see a lot of them in Chatswood and around the city here. They’re digital, and I actually was looking at this when my wife’s last book came out, ’cause I was gonna do a bit of book advertizing. I was actually looking at, ’cause some of them have got them in bus shelters now. But more specifically, I was gonna be looking around in the center of Sydney, around George Street, because there’s a few K Dymocks store there. Dymocks is a bookseller in Australia, for any overseas business. And I was actually gonna try and do it impression-based, just to have those key moments, like lunch time, etc., to advertize her book. And in terms of measurement, it actually would be very easy to measure because these are digital billboards, you can say, “Oh, well I’ll put it on for this week “and check the results.” ‘Cause we do get semi-real time book sales results. The thing that stopped me, and I think this is only a short term thing, the minimum spend was just too high. So it’s not like Google Ads or Facebook you can jump on and do $10 a day or something. They just needed corporate accounts that need many thousands of dollars of spend at a time and which was too much just for promoting a book. But that will change, the whole self service billboard market I think will come in, and especially digital billboards. You see these outside lots of lifts in buildings these days. It’s another piece. Now, we typically don’t do that ’cause we don’t think we can measure it, but I, and I’m interested to see how Brian measures it, but for my point of view, it’s actually quite easy. Turn it on for a week, turn it off for a week, and as long as there’s a very strong tie to purchase, so an eCommerce piece would be the most obvious example, or book sales would be another. If you’re promoting a profession services piece, that might be a bit more difficult to align. But certainly, those other mediums, those other channels that coming in place, and I’m really keen to use them. I actually think there’s those first moments for opportunities for those as well, for small business. Of course, the big brands have it already, but this is coming downstream to small business as well.

– [Ian] All right Craig, onto Inside of the week. Mapping your personas to ad targeting. Now this is something that you and me have both come up against and understanding when we talk to businesses it’s about understanding who were targeting and how do we talk to them, right?

– [Craig] Yeah that’s right, so I’ll add a bit of context around this. I’m gonna say most, actually might not be most, but many people when they think of personas and they prepare personas, they’ll do them role-based, so we’ll say they’re role-based, so it could be job titles, job function, that kind of thing. That’s pretty common and I think HubSpot would even push you down that path if you hadn’t come across personas before. I guess very simple to understand about a persona, about a person, you might add some demographics, age, etc., but it’s often role-based in what they do. And that’s because it’s very easy to target. Now, bigger brands and, well, maybe some actually more sophisticated brands don’t always go down role-based, they’ll go down approach-based. So an example might be they say, “Aw, look, we’ve got an innovator,” or “we’ve got a collaborator,” or “we’ve got early adopter as a persona.” And I often build out messaging and content around that, and that’s actually, it can be quite powerful. I was actually in a strategy session today with a client and they’ve gone down that path with approach-based personas, and talking about it, “Right, so how do we get campaigns going on?” I’m like, “Okay, that’s a good approach “but there’s actually a second piece of mapping “that you need to do,” because when you think about all the paid channels, they are quite often role-based or function-based or interest-based. So you can’t go onto Facebook and go, “Ah, I wanna target innovators,” or “I wanna target first–”

– [Ian] Collaborators.

– [Craig] Collaborators, or early adopters, right? It’s a lot harder. You’ve actually gotta do some extra thinking about how you target them. Now, on Facebook, that’s quite often based on interests, but on LinkedIn, for example, you’ve often gotta tie that actually back to a role or a title or job function. So, I think the inside of why we include it in the show is just to be aware that personas that can have extra, more sophistication, there’s pros and cons of both.

– [Ian] All right. Craig, our podcast of the week.

– [Craig] I’ve been listening to the 2Bobs podcast, and, you know, our friend, good friend of the show, David C. Baker, we love him. So he cohosts this with Blair Enns, who wrote the book “”Win Without Pitching””, which I’m reading at the moment.

– [Ian] I have read that book a while back, yes.

– [Craig] It’s so good, I’m really enjoying reading this. This is perfect for agencies, but also for marketing managers, I would say. So I’ve listened to a couple episodes, been going for ages, so this is not a new podcast. Been going for ages and I’ve only just started listening to it now. Fantastic.

– [Ian] And what’s been one of the one stand out highlights that you heard recently, Craig?

– [Craig] Okay, so he targeted this ad agency, this was talking about six types of people that are a bad fit for your agency. However, this could also work with marketing departments. But he looked at personality types where, you know, people come in and extend their influence and all kinds of characteristics that they do, or they try and block out other people so that they have, kinda, in charge, they’re the go-to people, they make themselves indispensable. All these kind of staffing issues, so that was one. Then he was in another episode, they were looking at some of the ways that you deal with procurement. Really interesting insight, I found, as an agency, ’cause Blair was actually recounting this experience he had at a conference where a procurement manager for, like, Coca Cola or something like that got up and said, talking to a room full of agencies, and said, “Ah, you all think you’re so differentiated and so unique,” and they said, “You’re all the same. “You all charge the same some kinda costing model. “You all say you’re different but it’s all the same, “you know, you’ve all got this unique process, “but it’s actually all the same thing “and it just presented differently. “You’re not unique. “We’re gonna pay you X dollars per hour, “that’s it, take it or leave it,” right? I thought it was a really good comment. And so, as you would know, both David and Blair, when they talk about differentiating, they talk about expertise. So it’s not really the way you position your agency, it’s about the expertise you bring to it. So I found that really interesting and I guess for any marketing managers presenting their own product to the market, it’s about how you differentiate and based it on expertise or other features.

– [Ian] Yeah, I think you’re absolutely right, Craig. That’s exactly what’s going on, right? Take away is to go have a think about that and actually figure out, are you positioning yourself correctly with your expertise? All right Craig, we got two shoutouts of the week. So Glenn gave you a shoutout from INBOUND. Hey Glenn, this is Glenn Miller from Lupo Digital, and he sent you a video, didn’t he?

– [Craig] That’s right. Very kind of him. Thank you Glenn. Keeping us, we’re not at INBOUND, in case you didn’t realize this as we’re not at INBOUND, we’re missing out on the fun but Glenn’s over there.

– [Ian] We are gonna be there next year, Craig.

– [Craig] I think so. And I wanted to give a shoutout to, you know Glenn’s Lupo Digital agency in Sydney?

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] Potentially a competitor. You know how people keep saying, “Oh, another HubSpot on their competitors?” We’re like, no. We don’t consider these other agencies competitors at all. Here’s another one. So Zoe Palmer from Brand Chemistry, I love their stuff. Potentially we could say Zoe and I are competitors?

– [Ian] Yeah

– [Craig] She’s actually been giving referrals to me and, oh, you know, and Amobee, Amobee. We should shoutout to Amobee, he gave me a referral, I gave you a referral–

– [Ian] You did, thank you.

– [Craig] There is so much good work to be done, and so many good agencies around, I don’t think we’d see any of them as competitors. We’re collaborators. Should be an avatar for that persona.

– [Ian] What I love at the core of them, they’re all good people. Now before we finish this segment, Craig, INBOUND next year, if you’re thinking of going, is actually August 18 to 21 in 2020.

– [Craig] Is that because that’s before the election or–

– [Ian] I would suspect so, because I remember four years ago, when we were at INBOUND was the day of the election. Anyway, so there’s two kinds of passes. You can get a all-access pass if you book in the near future, it’s 6.99, and you can have a power-pass, Craig, for 12.99.

– [Craig] The power-pass is what it’s all at.

– [Ian] All right Craig, onto our quote of the week. And I thought this would be a befitting quote from Brian Halligan. “Advice for modern marketers: automate the buying process. “Users are expecting you to automate their processes. “They want a self-service experience with your company.”

– [Craig] Only could automate the process of creating deals in.

– [Ian] That’s right, Craig. And paying for it too. All right, there’s some bonus links of the week. I think there’s some training from ConversionXL about microfunnels, not fly wheels, funnels.

– [Craig] Look! I know you baited me there! You can’t escape the funnel. Everything I talk about, the funnels, everything with clients, they understand funnels. No one gets the fly wheel.

– [Ian] You just gotta talk more about the fly wheel. It’s about less friction, Craig.

– [Craig] It is about less fiction. Well, yeah.

– [Ian] Anyway, maybe we can do it and place it on the fly wheel.

– [Craig] Later on.

– [Ian] Well Craig, I hope you’ve had a great birthday, and listeners, if you are listening to this and you love this show, we’d love you to leave us a review on our podcast or Spotify. And we’d love you to contact us on Instagram, ’cause we love hearing from you guys, or email us. And to those that we haven’t met in person, please feel free to drop us a line. We are actually thinking of running some dinners in Sydney. And, of course, when we are at INBOUND in 2020, we will get together there again. Well I hope everybody has a great week, and until next time, Craig.

– [Craig] Catch ya later, Ian.

– [Ian] Thank you for listening to this episode of HubShots. For show notes, resources, HubSpot news including practical strategies you can implement, visit us at HubShots.com.

Episode 171: Workflow Go Action, the pain of HubSpot Quarantine

Welcome to Episode 171 of HubShots!

HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

We hope you enjoy the podcast as much as HubSpot’s CEO, Brian Halligan does.

This episode we chat about HubSpot’s new Go Action in Workflows, the trauma of having a contact list get quarantined, plus a look at how Seth Godin is using Instagram

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/171-workflow-go-action-the-pain-of-hubspot-quarantine/

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD3Uo4X-IxPJLE8ygPDQhNQ

Subscribe to our Spotify channel here: https://open.spotify.com/show/7oee8w41riN5aRNrLKT2ar

Join the Facebook group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/hubshots/

Follow us on Twitter here: https://twitter.com/hubshots

Follow us on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/hubshotspodcast/

Follow us on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hubshots/

Recorded: Tuesday 27 August 2019 | Published: Friday 6 September 2019

Shot 1: Inbound Thought of the Week

Plant based KFC

KFC is about to offer Beyond Meat chicken:


I learnt a new word:  flexitarian : a person who consumes mainly vegetarian food but occasionally eats meat or fish


Btw Seeing the word ‘fried’ coming back – turns out that wasn’t the reason they rebranded to KFC in the 90s:


HUGcast – September 2019

The Sydney HubSpot User Group (HUG) is coming up on Wednesday 25 September 2019.

At the event we’ll be recording a podcast about how to get started recording a podcast.

It will also be our post Inbound event with takeaways from the conference.

Look for details here:


Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Workflow branch joins

Using Go in workflows to connect branches


XEN   Deal   Testing Deal Closed Won Trigger   HubSpot

Currently in Company, Deal and Ticket workflows.

Can’t wait for this to be added to Contact workflows as well.

Influenced revenue report – thanks Justin

Reports > Analytics Tools > Campaign Analytics:

hubshots influnced revenue


Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

3  lead scoring   YouTube

A really good and simple reminder about manual lead scoring.


Shot 4: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

Where are all the new releases?

===> waiting for Inbound19

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

Using smart content:


Shot 6: Insight of the Week

There are Google Ads, and then there are More Ads:


Interesting use of Instagram by Seth Godin:


Eg he ran an Instagram Live and Facebook Live event:


Shot 7: App Integration of the Week


Ran into some issues with email delivery this week and had to use NeverBounce.  Here are some of the results as we connected it to HubSpot to do the validation and then pushed the data back.

But how do you check it? They will attempt to create a HubSpot property named “neverbouncevalidationresult” to store the NeverBounce validation result (valid, invalid, disposable, catchall, and unknown).

NeverBounce   Dashboard


Shot 8: Resource of the Week



Shot 9: Quote of the Week

“Different’ and ‘new’ is relatively easy. Doing something that’s genuinely better is very hard.”

  • Sir Jony Ive

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week

Yet another post about doing a simple SEO audit:


Interesting link experiment going on by Dejan SEO (after their main site was penalised):


Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

HubShots episode 171

– [Ian Jacob] Hi everyone. Welcome to HubShots, Episode 171. In this episode we talk about workflow go-actions and the pain of HubSpot quarantine. You’re listening to Asia-Pacific’s number one HubSpot focused podcast. Where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks and features and strategies for growing your marketing and sales results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. How are ya Craig?

– [Craig] Oh look, really good and you know what I’m looking forward to? I’m looking forward to some of that plant-based KFC. Did you see this, the news come out recently?

– [Ian] What is the this about? That’s our inbound thought of the week.

– [Craig] Well I’ll get to why it’s our inbound thought of the week, but yeah, so KFC, Kentucky Fried Chicken, by the way they’ve been using–

– [Ian] Fried!

– [Craig] Fried a fair bit lately, anyway, the health, I guess, problems have gone away. But anyway Beyond Meat has gone huge and everyone’s offering vegan and vegetarian options now. So KFC, they’re gonna have vegetarian chicken based on Beyond Meat. Anyway I just thought, oh, what better way to start a show than talk about KFC you know.

– [Ian] But this is marketing right?

– [Craig] And why I’m bringing this around. I’m gonna tenuously try and relate this back to marketing but how things were changed. First the word fried, I saw an ad for them the other day and it said “Fried Gold” like they’re just, it’s almost front and center, fried. So that’s changed so it just shows how marketing’s changed there, someone said “Oh, let’s just embrace this.” You know? And also that whole Beyond Meat craze. Like everyone, and there’s a whole list of these companies rushing to put Beyond Meat in there. So just this kind of branding that Beyond Meat has got and the marketing behind it, everyone’s jumping on board. So really interesting times.

– [Ian] Yeah that’s right and you even look at the packaging it looks really green and I thought that was rather interesting, I mean, I guess what next?

– [Craig] Oh by the way I learnt a new word.

– [Ian] Well you taught me a new word today.

– [Craig] Okay the word is flexitarian. Had you heard this word before?

– [Ian] No I had not.

– [Craig] Well apparently it’s been around since the 90s, I didn’t know this, but flexitarian it’s a combination between flexible and vegetarian and it’s basically people that have kinda more trying to avoid eating meat and more a plant-based diet but they’re flexible about it. So yeah anyway, there you go. Word of the week. We should have a shot at word of the week anyway.

– [Ian] All right now Craig we have got the HUGcast coming in September 2019.

– [Craig] The Hug Cast. What is the Hug Cast?

– [Ian] So this is the Sydney HubSpot user group and it’s on the 25th of September and at this event we will be recording the podcast on how to start and record a podcast.

– [Craig] It’s very meta, so folks, by the way, we’re recording this on the 27th of August just before Inbound. You’re going to Inbound aren’t you Ian? Yep, flying out so, by the time listeners you hear this he’ll be back and would have heard about all the goodness that’s been announced at Inbound. So when we have our HubSpot user group in late September it will actually be a bit of a recap of Inbound. And you know what we’re doing different this time? It’s not just going to be a trotting out of the news, ’cause I think HubSpot does a pretty good job of pushing that out. But it’s actually going to be a panel which we are going to be recording as part of a podcast. A panel talking about how to apply all our new releases and features into your marketing. So it’s not just about oh here’s this new feature. It’s like here’s how we can apply it. So it’s going to be a user group event I think.

– [Ian] That’s right. And I wonder whether they’ve done one of those anywhere else in the world. Okay Craig, onto our HubSpot marketing feature of the week. And this is about workflow branch joins.

– [Craig] Right. So you know one of the big problems with HubSpot, I’m gonna say problem, HubSpot workflows is that you can’t join branches so you branch and then they each have their own path and you can’t bring them back together. So we’re almost there. HubSpot have released the go-action. And it’s quite nice actually because it’s more powerful than just joining a branch at the end where, you know, we’ve used active campaign. Others which do a good job of joining branches at the end. But it’s a go-action so you can push it off to another event. Now they’ve only got it in company deal and ticket work flows. It’s not in contact workflows yet but I’m assuming that’s coming soon. So, looking forward to that. We’re going to link in the show notes plus a screenshot, just of an example we’ve got in place.

– [Ian] Now Craig, why would anyone care about this go-action and joining?

– [Craig] So do you use branching much in workflows?

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] Right, so I tend to avoid it. I avoid using branches, yeah.

– Oh. And I’ll tell you why: because I don’t like having all these branches heading off and then I can’t pull them together, because you often get a lot of these repeated actions, branches.

– [Ian] Actions, yes.

– [Craig] Then you almost see like 90% of each branch is the same, it’s just for a few. And that’s often because those things come after the initial action that happens after a branch so you really want to be able to bring it back so you can kind of say branch do this or that then bring them back so they’re on a common thread. Now we tend to use child workflows for that.

– [Ian] Yes, which I think is what I did one of these massive workflows for a customer, and I was showing it to you the other day and you said, oh I think we need to split that up and pull out some of that in to a child workflow, which I did. So that actually worked really well. And I think it’s a good philosophy.

– [Craig] Well that’s really good, but this go action is going to

– Going to change things. mean we can avoid doing that. So I’m really looking forward to this, ahhh, so.

– [Ian] It is actually very good now that I’m thinking about it contextually in one of my things that I’ve done for a customer, I think this is excellent. All right, now Craig, we spoke about a influenced revenue report a while back and we’re just gonna touch back on this again.

– [Craig] Well this is a really good thing and by the way thanks, Justin, for this, go the extra. He alerted us or reminded us of the influenced revenue report. Now I’m not actually sure if I did know about this influenced revenue, or certainly not in my own portal. Had you actually used this report before?

– [Ian] No I haven’t, I didn’t but now I do after having this discussion. I went last week and implemented in a couple of portals where we’ve got data. So you obviously need DL data in there to make this happen. So be aware of that: if you don’t have DL data you’re not going to see anything on there. And you find this report under reports > analytics tools > campaign analytics. And then you’ve got to make sure you choose the influence contacts by revenue.

– [Craig] Well actually there’s an influence contacts and an influence revenue

– Correct. and they’re both actually quite good. Now there is a little bit of a well it’s not really a “gotcha” but you’ve just got to remember that there can be double-ups because if something is coming through; a deal has come through multiple, say, campaigns they both get counted. But it’s influenced revenue so it’s where these campaigns have influenced revenue. So it’s actually exactly how you would expect.

– [Ian] All right, on to HubSpot’s sales feature of the week! Now, Craig, I wanted to highlight this because lead scoring, and we’ve spoke about this a few times, people tend to get confused. Now even if you have a marketing enterprise, you will have predictive lead scoring which works on data that’s within the system and from the machine learning and artificial intelligence that’s going on. But if you don’t have marketing enterprise and you’ve just got marketing professional, there is this lead scoring ability but it’s a manual ability so you’ve actually got to set up what score to give certain aspects of behavior or maybe certain fields of data that you’re collecting. And I wanted to highlight this is a one minute, forty-five video from HubSpot Academy about how to use lead scoring in HubSpot. And I think it’s a good and simple reminder about setting this up in your portal. As a start, it doesn’t have to be perfect but at least get used to setting something up. You could even use this, really simple things, like one of the examples they use is that in the position field it’s “vice” like they’re looking for a vice president or vice or VC president. So one of the criteria was like I want to give it 10 points if you see this in the position field. So it’s just really simple. But I want you to have a look at the video and go and set that up. That’s the action from this.

– [Craig] And just one question: should they be watching this video with the sound on or off, Ian?

– [Ian] Well, Craig, what can I say. I would recommend sound off.

– [Craig] Okay, listen, so a big, yeah, a special bonus there if you listen with the sound on, my goodness!

– [Ian] All right, Craig, on to HubSpot gotcha of the week.

– [Craig] And you know what’s got me?

– [Ian] There ain’t no releases.

– [Craig] Where’s all the product releases? And I guess everyone saying we’re holding those for Inbound. So, yeah it’s been a pretty lean month in the product releases, I guess, yeah. Really looking forward to when it gets announced next week.

– [Ian] That’s right. I’m sure you’ll be able to watch it live on HubSpot.com. Or if you listen to this episode after you probably go to HubSpot.com/new will be the new product releases.

– [Craig] That’s it.

– [Ian] All right, Craig, on to our marketing tip of the week: using a smart content.

– [Craig] Look we’ve started talking about this lately but this is just a blog post on considerations around smart content. Worth going through, they give kind of five points around how to think about smart content. Things to consider before you jump into it. Well worth a read.

– [Ian] So let’s just pull one thing out of there, Craig. So I think this is a good one: determine who you are creating smart content for. That’s a really good one. And then determine where you want to add smart content. And then determine what should be your default content. So I’ll give you a little example. We use smart call-to-actions based on certain behaviors: maybe people belong to certain lists, maybe they’ve downloaded certain offers and now they need to be moved along on to the next offer. So this is a really simple way we use smart-CTAs to actually deliver that to people in a manner that is efficient.

– [Craig] Yeah look I think the thing with smart content is you do have to think about it carefully especially if it’s actual content within a page as opposed to say a form or a CTA because you can often get yourself into over-complexity in areas if you haven’t thought about it. Getting the default content right is important. But yeah I’ve seen people like, oh smart content– they lose track of it or they try and do multiple smart content items on a page and it all gets out of hand. So yeah this is just a good reminder to plan it out and think about how it’s done.

– [Ian] All right. On to our insight of the week, Craig. Now there are Google ads, and then there are more ads.

– [Craig] Actually this should just be a “LOL of the week” So, this is linked through to Twitter and someone’s done a screenshot where they’ve typed in a search term and basically the Google result has had a bunch of ads and it’s got another section called “more ads” and it’s like you know it’s breaking out the categories or the sections of ads sorry. I don’t know, when I, I tried to reproduce this it’s like, have they doctored this? Have they made this up? I don’t know. It’s pretty funny thought. But it’s true; that’s the way Google is becoming.

– [Ian] Now, just to– I just want to take a little step back. I’ve been reviewing a lot about accounts lately. And Google’s releasing new updates and features all the time and obviously you can test new things, right? What you tend to find is all these new features take up more space in the ad. So, you know, you could– I was, I think I was talking to a customer the other day and I think if you used all the features that were available in the Google ad tool you could pretty much take up the entire mobile screen almost.

– [Craig] That’s kind of funny. Do you remember The Onion years ago when they were, you know how men’s shavers

– [Ian] Yes you know, they’re–

– [Ian] The dollar-shave club.

– [Craig] Well, yeah but, you know, they’re like, “Mine’s got two blades.” And, “Oh mine’s got three blades!” “No, mine’s got four blades!” And then The Onion did this joke article I think, I forget how many, it was like “Mine’s got five!” or “seven blades!” or something It’s like, just like this HUGE– It’s kind of like, you know, over the top. And Gillette have actually come down and that, like it’s– It just cracks me up. Anyway, it’s kind of like Google Ads are doing the same it’s like well you can have your nice two-line ad No, no, we’re adding a third line. Oh no, four-line! You’ve got five! oh! And there’s ad extensions: you’ve got six! Mine’s got seven lines of ads! These ads are just a huge thing it’s almost like your entire phone is taken up with one ad and then you just scroll through the ad.

– [Ian] There is because you

– It’s out of control! can have a site link extension, you can have a call extension, you can have a message extension, you can have price extension. They’re really good because you kind of get a scrolling carousel of pricing. When I use these for customers it’s really impressive the amount of space you can take up. Anyway,

– Anyway.,

– [Craig] So it’s kind of just a bit of a joke, aside. On to the actual insight of the week. And this is around Seth Godin; do you follow him on Instagram?

– [Ian] I do but I don’t look at his stuff that often.

– [Craig] Right, so you should check it out. And listeners, check out how he’s embracing Instagram with his Instagram updates and he’s got videos and then he’s got the carousels. When you see how he’s doing it it’s like ah this is so obvious! Anyway, we should do this for HubShots.

– [Ian] Exactly.

– [Craig] Anyway, take a look at Seth Godin. And I just think it’s interesting. I mean, it’s not that it hasn’t been done before I know there’s some cartoonists and things like that do the carousel panel quite well. But he’s taken it from first time I’ve come and seen it done well like that and of course HubSpot’s doing that kind of thing as well but yeah, take inspiration from that.

– [Ian] And also have a look here at our Instagram Live and Facebook Live event. I think the one thing we can learn out of this is that look at what he’s doing and see what can be applicable to your business. And test and measure like we always say. All right, Craig, on to our app integration of the week.

– [Craig] All right, so when we say app integration we’re also going to go “uh oh, quarantining items.” So explain the setup to this.

– [Ian] All right so I came across this app probably a couple of months ago from HubSpot Support when I was talking about, I think I was trying to do some list cleaning and they said “Oh you should check this out.” It’s called NeverBounce. It integrates with HubSpot now. And this is because a customer gave me a list this week of resellers that they sell stuff to. I don’t think they’ve have actually communicated with them recently I guess because they’re constantly selling them stuff or they’re buying stuff. You know, accounts are billing them, emailing them. And so they thought, “OK well we’ve got these specials on. Can we email them?” Sure thing. Anyway, what do you know there’s about 400 on that list. The first 50 sent out and there’s a bounce rate of about 15%. Everything gets quarantined. Right so this entire list. So I’m thinking to myself this is not very good. You know, I get emails flown everywhere. My account manager’s notified HubSpot. Like it’s just alarm bells ringing. Anyway so I thought okay let’s take a step back. Let me go and claim these lists. So I used NeverBounce. So I actually initially just loaded the list. I think they run a free verification. So I think one list came up at about 13% I thought Okay, well that’s okay. I can get that clean. Another one came up at 20, right. And this is the one that I, I can’t remember whether this is the one I learned, one of the two. Anyway, so I thought, okay well I’m gonna clean these. So I paid, I got them cleaned and then I pushed the data back into HubSpot because there is, once it gets the list, you can clean it and you can say import it back in to HubSpot, which it does. And then I was like, Okay now what do I do? Anyway I still don’t get over this quarantining problem, right? Because now I’ve got to explain to support where I got the list from, how I communicated with them.

– [Craig] You are feeling the pain.

– [Ian] I am really feeling the pain.

– [Craig] You are feeling the HubSpot quarantine pain.

– [Ian] That’s right, it’s like I’m in jail!

– [Craig] You are in jail.

– [Ian] So anyways I’m talking to HubSpot support and just trying to understand this whole process. If I had done this process before I sent the email there probably wouldn’t have been a problem. But because I attempted to send the email not understanding how clean this list was I ran into this problem. So here’s lesson number one: make sure you ask the right questions and make sure you actually do a check and clean your list, and use a service. There are many services out there but NeverBounce is one of them, hooks in with HubSpot. The second thing is, when you’re cleaning this list and they came from HubSpot, you’ll probably log in and you’ll go, “How do I tell that the data’s actually gone back?” And I had no idea and I’ve talked to HubSpot Support and they’re probably on their way to telling me. But here it is: what it says in their support documentation is that they will attempt to create a HubSpot property named NeverBounce Validation Result, right? To store the NeverBounce validation result of valid, invalid, disposable, catch all and unknown. And I could not find that. So it’s a little gotcha in a sense because it’s hidden somewhere which you won’t necessarily know. I actually thought it might have gone into another seperate list that was created saying that these were cleaned and these were not cleaned. Anyway that’s where it is. And I’ll put a link to the support article. And for my trouble, I’ve had to respond to HubSpot Support answering those questions to get out of jail.

– [Craig] Yes. A few comments on this: Well first of all, if you’re ever wondering how an integration pushes back results there’s a fair chance that if you go and look in custom properties on the contact you’ll find something named “related to the product”. So that’s the first place to look in case you’re wondering, you know, how do I find something, push back to a contact in HubSpot. But the second is the quarantining: like is this actually fair? And do you remember a few episodes ago we were talking, you know, HubSpot released their up to a thousand email sends, and free, and all that kind of thing? And we were like “Oh man, this is going to get spammed to death.” you know, spam this playground. Well here’s the thing One: when you do send out a broadcast they only send a subset first to check the quality of it. So that’s a good sign. So it’s not like “Oh yeah we’re going to load up 10,000 spam things and just hammer it out.” No, they’re going to send out 50 or so and test and then quarantine you if you’re against it. I reckon they’ve tightened up their rules significantly. I’d like to know whether this is true or if this is just my kind of–

– [Ian] Deduction?

– [Craig] deduction on it. But they’ve tightened up their rules and they’re not going to let any people go in and just start even and you’re kind of collateral damage in a way. I wouldn’t say you’re 100% clean–

– [Ian] No.

– [Craig] because it’s an older list, right?

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] And the client has said, “Oh we want to send it to them.” We do have permission but it’s a bit older. But it’s caught you out. And you’ve said, right, well after some churn, we’re going to catch that and flag it. So I actually think it’s good, possibly the get-out-of-jail process is a little bit onerous although again you’ve got to put these hurdles in place otherwise HubSpot will just become known as “Oh yep, Spammer’s Paradise.” So I actually think it’s a good thing on balance.

– [Ian] Yes, I want to say thank you to Kershin from HubSpot Support for helping us out. Thanks buddy! All right, Craig, on to our resource of the week and there’s a link to Databox. But the 44 most destructive SEO myths according to 120 SEOs. That sounds like a real mouthful.

– [Craig] Actually it’s quite good article, they go through all the SEO myths that kind of get trotted out. So good reading. I only quibbled with one of them.

– [Ian] Which was?

– [Craig] Well one of them said this myth that between subdomain vs subfolder and they were saying Uh no you definitely should use a subfolder. I was like uh, no I don’t think that’s actually a problem. And well, as evidence, exhibit A: I’ll give you the HubSpot blog–

– [Ian] Blog.HubSpot.com! Blog.HubSpot.com, yeah that’s right.

– [Ian] And you’ve actually got something on your site about SEO myths as well.

– [Craig] Well that’s my blog post where I talk about the DataBox blog post and I highlight my quibble with it.

– [Ian] Fantastic! Now on to our quote of the week, Craig. And I thought this was very aptly put from Sir Jony Ive. It says, “Different and new is relatively easy. Doing something that’s genuinely better is very hard.”

– [Craig] Good quote. Just checking, you said Jony Iv-ee. Is it Iv-ee, or Jony Ive?

– [Ian] Oh!

– [Craig] I’m not sure about ’cause I’ve heard it said both ways.

– [Ian] Yes!

– [Craig] I thought it was Ive. Do you think it’s Iv-ee?

– [Ian] I don’t know, we should find a video of him talking about himself.

– [Craig] I don’t know. Oh look, I’ve got him on speed-dial I’ll just call him now.

– [Craig] No.

– [Ian] Aright listeners, we’ve got a couple of bonus things in the week about doing simple SEO audits. And also we would love if you could leave us a review on Apple Podcast, Spotify, and hit us up on Instagram. We’d love to hear from you. We love getting emails from people. Now, somebody did email us, Craig?

– [Craig] Oh yeah, you’re talking about Chad?

– [Ian] Yes!

– [Craig] Thanks Chad, it was great. We loved your email, thankyou for that.

– [Ian] Alright everybody, I hope you have a great week. And Craig, until next week?

– [Craig] Catch ‘ya later, Ian.

– Hey there. Thanks for listening to this episode of HubShots. For show notes on the latest HubSpot news and tips, please visit us at HubShots.com.