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Monthly Archives: November 2019

Episode 179

Episode 179: Quick HubSpot Conversations tip, Duplicate content considerations

Welcome to Episode 197 of Hubshots!

HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

This episode we chat about how HubSpot Conversations saves you time, plus testing emails in HubSpot.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/episode-179-quick-hubspot-conversations-tip-duplicate-content-considerations/

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

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Recorded: Wednesday 23 October 2019 | Published: Friday 8 November 2019

Shot 1: Growth Thought of the Week

Building a moat

For HubSpot, their key side-differentiators (ie separate to the product) are:

  • High-quality support
  • HubSpot Academy

Sure, lots of companies have good support (eg WP Engine, Amazon), so that’s not a moat on its own.

The HubSpot Academy, on the other hand, is a significant moat that very few companies come close to, and the gap is widening every day. Soon it will be impossible for any competitors to stand a chance of getting near them.

In terms of product – having quality through the product suite is very hard to reach as well.

How many products do you slot into multiple parts of your business (ie like a suite should do)?

https://twitter.com/bhalligan/status/1185232831775199234?s=12

g2 hubspot

Image from here:

https://www.intercom.com/blog/the-ultimate-marketing-technology-stack/

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Email testing tools within HubSpot.  You realise what you don’t have until you are using other systems!

Edit Email   Test

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Sales Training

Sales professionals with three to four years of selling experience spend 50% more time on training than those with two years or less and 110% as those with five years or more — probably because rookies aren’t sure if they’re going to stay in sales and veterans don’t believe they need to develop further.

The Power of Content in Sales

Frictionless Sale Certification

Shot 4: HubSpot Service Feature of the Week

Using Conversations to reduce your workload

We get a lot of outreach emails to our sites, which are often just wasting our time.

They all tend to use sequence-based tools so we get multiple follow-ups.

One of the useful features of Conversations is you can just Block the sender, or Mark as spam and then any follow up are automatically ‘filtered’ so you never see them.

Inbox 1

Here’s 522 conversations that we’ve been able to avoid:

Inbox 2

Save time!

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

Keeping email deliverability good and the effort these guys have gone to make sure you get their emails!

http://lp.accessintel.com/LCN-Whitelisting-OM.html

We re Upgrading  Add Us to Your Safe Senders List   ian jacob searchandbefound com au   Search   Be Found Mail

Action: What are you doing regularly to ensure people are getting your emails?

Shot 6: Insight of the Week

Thinking through Duplicate Content in Google’s eyes

Key point: there’s no duplicate content penalty, instead there is content filtering.

https://searchengineland.com/myth-duplicate-content-penalty-259657

https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/66359?hl=en

https://www.hobo-web.co.uk/duplicate-content-problems/

https://moz.com/learn/seo/duplicate-content

Focus on making your content as useful as possible for a visitor.

If the content is repeated on your site but in a way that is useful to visitors, then chances are Google will understand that.

If you have content that is also used on other sites (eg especially common on eCommerce sites) then Google will surface the version that is most useful to the person searching.

A simple example: Consider a car dealership eg Hyundai

Most of the content around car models will be exactly the same on all of the sites, similarly with service and finance options.

But none of these sites are penalised.

Instead Google will show the most relevant site to a person searching eg location will be a big factor, as well as previous viewing history, the device they are on etc.

Shot 7: Podcast of the Week

Akimbo by Seth and the episode about Friction!

https://overcast.fm/+L0YWZYeWU

Friction   Akimbo  A Podcast from Seth Godin   Overcast

Shot 8: Resource of the Week

PPC Trends for 2020

(yes the 2020 posts have started already!)

https://www.smartinsights.com/paid-search-marketing-ppc/paid-search-strategy/pay-per-click-ppc-trends-2020/

Key points:

  • Automation of your advertising
  • AI (of course!)
  • Video ads (eg Google’s Bumper Machine)
  • Responsive search ads become the norm

Shot 9: Quote of the Week

“Let’s not confuse getting better at stuff with being a better person. One is a much bigger priority than the other.”

October 22 in The Daily Stoic

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week

Competitor analysis process

https://www.screamingfrog.co.uk/the-beginners-guide-to-seo-competitor-analysis/

Audience segmentation

https://conversionxl.com/blog/audience-segmentation

Redirects before and after a site update:

https://www.searchviu.com/en/testing-redirects/

The Disrupter CMO:

https://medium.com/better-marketing/19-habits-of-successful-marketers-the-disruptor-cmo-playbook-ef5b142171a1

Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.
Episode 179

– Hi, everyone, welcome to Hubshots episode 197. In this episode, we share our Hubspot conversation, saving you time, plus testing emails in Hubspot and duplicate content considerations. Now there’s a tongue twister, Craig? You’re listening to Asia Pacific’s number one Hubspot focused podcast where we discuss household tips, tricks, strategies and features for growing yourselves, marketing, and service results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. Now, Craig, why are you laughing so hard?

– Oh, I’m just like, “Are we gonna leave that “in at the start?” Are we not gonna restart or re-record that one, let’s just get going.

– Yeah, absolutely.

– So our growth thought of the week, Craig, building a mote. And why are we talking about this? Because there was an interesting Twitter post which–

– From an online person called Brian Helligan. It talked about between 19 marketing tech stack across three different areas, attract, engage, analyze and optimize and Hubspot was in all three of those.

– Well, for one particular company, J.J. Crab. So this is actually pretty cool. It’s got Brinker from Martech has this little, it’s not really a competition, but it’s kind of a survey where people submit their marketing stack. As you know there’s thousands of tools and one of them G2 Crowd, this was their stack and Hubspot was in all three, I guess, stages of their stack and of course we can go and check out some of the other ones, and so I’ve got links in the show notes. But we’re talking about this idea of building a mote and what I thought was interesting was, well, there’s a product mote, there’s your product is so good that people can’t get close. You’re protecting yourself with a mote, but I think there’s other different chattings that Hubspot have just besides their product and I think we’re gonna chat about some of those. And one you always heard about us talking on this show is the high quality of support. Yeah, and you know how lots of companies have great support these days?

– Yes.

– It’s not that much of a differentiator, but I’ve gotta say, with Hubspot’s support, not only is it very timely and very quick to respond, but there’s actually quite well-trained people. There are senior people on support and I was listening to you on a support call today, I’ve never had this experience where they go, “Oh, I’ll just check that “and get back to you, and in the background “all they’re doing is a Google search, “and trying to find something.”

– Great.

– They’re actually really well-trained–

– Yes.

– They’re very knowledgeable and they often come back with answers that I hadn’t even considered which I know sounds a little bit arrogant, but I guess it’s just because my benchmark, getting support from people, the first support response I get is something that I’ve already found after a one second Google search.

– Okay.

– It’s just so condescending. Hubspot is never like that. Their support is great. So lots of companies have great support, Hubspot’s is excellent. However that’s not that much of a differentiator these days. However I think what is is one particular asset they’ve been building.

– Which is the Hubspot academy.

– And I often tell this to people that say, “Why should I consider Hubspot “or whey should I use this tool?” And I say, “Look, everything that’s in there, “in the academy that we used “to train our teams and I know you do too.” And we train ourselves using that training. And so I always tell people, you can know as much as we do by using that training and actually applying yourself to the system. Obviously, we use it day in, day in out. Not everybody uses it the same as we do, but it’s all there, it’s just a matter of finding it, learning it and applying it. Yeah, so not only is the content good, but it’s very well-organized, a nice sub sort of category because, so for example, Google, they have a lot of online around tools, Google Analytics, Google Ads. It’s impossible to find. How do you find it? It’s not well-structured and, we’re just gonna, Hubspot Academy is a must. This is a keeper. Can you think of any other company that can even get close?

– Wow.

– Send us a comment. Tell us if there’s any product trend or software, anything that comes close to what Hubspot has with Hubspot Academy. I’d love to see it.

– Now in terms of support, Craig, I wanna say, look, we think use WP Engine and we use their support, but that support is on live chat and there’s no “pick up the phone, let’s call you up.”

– This is true.

– So in that perspective, when you think about support, Hubspot has three different channels and they offer you support on being it a call, they can call you back. You can do a live chat and you can log a ticket. So I think they give you many options and I actually really like how we pretty much get 24/7 support because it goes from Singapore to Dublin, I think then to Boston and back around again. So for we us, we have dealt with people in Boston and Dublin previously. We do it with a lot of people in Singapore because of the time difference now and again, if I am up late at night and doing stuff at rather odd hours, you do get people from Dublin and Boston which is great. And I think there’s a consistency across the team, so well done to Hubspot support.

– All right, Craig, our Hubspot marketing feature of the week.

– I’ve spoken about this on previous shows. It’s about email testing and do you know that there is actually email testing within the Hubspot marketing email too? Where you can choose, I don’t know how many different options there were, there were literally about 50 different options about you wanted to test your email on an iPhone XS running iOS 13 running outlook 2013 on Windows, Outlook in the Chrome browser, so many things. Anyway, you’ve heard us talk about Litmus before where they basically do email testing across browsers and across systems. Well, this is built into Hubspot. You can go ahead and select what you want and you can run the test, see the results, and get it out the other end.

– Now I’m assuming there’s a significant cost to run those tests, is there?

– No, there isn’t.

– Testing nearly of course is just clicking a few buttons.

– I know, actually doing it, this is what’s incredible about it. And why would I mention that because you might be thinking, “Oh, well it’s costly for you.” Well, we’ve used other tools in the past where they have the option for email testing and then they’ll charge you a certain amount to test with other platforms, so this is just something you get from Hubspot for free. Let me just take you, like one of the ones that we’ve used previously in the past you could use called Litmus. They charge $99 a month if you wanna do email testing. You know what I wanna say, Litmus is, well, it’s the gold standard. So they’re probably better. I would assume they’re better actually. They better be better for that price and they’re testing that they do. Have you used it recently?

– No, I haven’t.

– Yeah, I haven’t used it for a long time, actually. I just use Hubspot mainly for our clients.

– All right, now onto Hubspot’s sales feature of the week, Craig.

– I wanted to highlight this. “Sales professionals often should “be selling, but also require training.” And one, what’s really interesting is they have a really good stat is that sales professionals with three to four years of sales experience spend 50% or more of their time in those with two years or less. And 110% of those with five years or more probably because rookies aren’t sure if they’re going to stay in sales and veterans don’t believe they need to develop further. So this is about them doing their sales training and actually having time. So what’s another interesting step that people use is that in businesses, sales managers say they spend about 50% of their time actually training their sales team, but really it’s 25 to 30% of the time that they actually do it. And I think I spoke about this before. There’s an interesting step that I’ve heard from somebody that worked in Apple is that they spend the first hour of every day doing sales training. So these are people in the Apple Store. This is the first thing they do every morning. They do an hour sales training.

– Really?

– Yeah.

– Like before the store opens?

– Correct.

– Wow, this is staff on the floor.

– This is somebody that used to work in a store was telling me about it.

– So let me just check, so every day I spend an hour every day before the store opens.

– Wow, anyway, so coming back to that, I really, because I’ve been training a few sales teams, I’ve been pointing them to resource and then I’m gonna be like, “What training can we do?” So there were actually two bits of training that I’m wanting to highlight and I’ve started doing one of them, I haven’t done the other. The first one is frictionless sales certifications. That’s something that’s been brought up by Hubspot so I would encourage you to do that. I think it’s about two hours worth of videos and then there’s a test at the end, and then there’s another one which is the power of content in sales, having the right collateral for your sales process and the influence of content.

– Look, I’m totally distracted by that Apple’s done an hour of training–

– Yes.

– Every morning before, I’ve been thinking about it, you know what I’m gonna do?

– You’re gonna walk into the Apple Store and ask them?

– No, no, I’m going to show my team and myself every day before you get the email or anything, you’ve gotta do an hour of training on Hubspot Academy, let’s say. Let’s try that for a month.

– Yeah, that’s a good challenge.

– Let’s see how that goes.

– Yeah.

– You’d make time to do things.

– Exactly.

– But everyone on the team kinda has a bit of quieter or a guide that they’re supposed to do in terms of training each week. No one does it, but myself, I’d pull leading by example in this because whose life gets in the way and it’s something, there’s always something urgent. They just say, “Oh, I know, well, I put training off “or I block it in the afternoon now. “There’s a client call at the,” But once if we said the fist hour, you’re not allowed to touch email until you’ve done an hour of training on the Hubspot Academy. You would make time for it.

– Yeah.

– You would have to make it happen.

– Exactly.

– I think I’m gonna do it. This challenge is on. Who’s with me?

– I’m with you, Craig? All right, there we go. Do the frictionless sales certification, Craig. Let’s get going. All right, onto the Hubspot sales feature of the week, Craig. Using conversations to reduce your workload.

– Yeah, you know how I love Hubspot conversations. We don’t talk enough about this on the show, I don’t think. We haven’t really given as much prominence as it deserves, I feel. So we use Hubspot conversations, in fact, in a number of our businesses, but one of them that’s an online training base, one of my wife’s sites, it gets quite a lot of support requests coming in. We used to use another product. We’ve now moved that over to conversations in Hubspot. We don’t even use tickets. It’s all conversations because they come in by email or LinkedIn, Hubspot–

– Messenger.

– Facebook, Facebook Messenger that comes in and the form now comes in ’cause it’s–

– The support form, right?

– The support form links right into the conversation.

– Yeah.

– Now it’s great. It’s not as full-featured as the tool we had before. However it’s saving us a lot more time because of one key little feature and we’ve–

– Tell me, Craig, what is the key little feature?

– If you’re in conversations and you’re looking in conversation you can assign it to yourself, but then up in the top-right there’s this little dropdown and there’s move the trash, block sender, or mark it spam. You’ve got three options there.

– Yep.

– And we get so many outreach emails and junk support requests coming in.

– I know, I was reading some of those outreach emails like, “Hi, I’ve reached to you out “the first time and you haven’t responded.” Oh, the second one. “I’ve reached you for the second time “and you haven’t responded.” Third time, fourth time, I was like, “Really?” These people because they’re all only sequences, right? They’re probably using Hubspot Sequences to send their spam outreach emails. Well, there’s any number of tools, Malshake and others. But anyways, the first time that comes in we’re just gonna write mark as spam or block sender, and then all their follow-ups, all those nine followups just go into the filtered section in conversations, so we never see them again. It is saving us so much time and I’ve got a screenshot here since we just added this in which was a couple of months ago. We’ve switched over to Hubspot Conversations. 522 conversations have been filtered out as spam. It’s saving us–

– So much time.

– Such a mess here.

– Oh, yeah, it’s saving us so much time.

– So tell me, on the previous system that you used, this did not happen.

– No, in fact, what would happened is they’d come in, we’d go just go, “I’ll mark it as resolved.”

– Yep.

– To get it out. Then I would do the followup. That would come in as a new ticket.

– Oh.

– Yeah, it was really frustrating. Now I think it was an older system. It was Desk by Salesforce is what we used to use. So maybe it’s an older system and maybe there’s newer systems that would’ve been better then. Desk might have been better. I don’t know, but it just used to waste so much of our time because if you think that we’re not reaching in the four fives, that’s five interruptions to–

– Then it just removes.

– Respond. Yeah, now admittedly in Monotech a couple seconds I was now on there, he was like, “Okay, I’ll blank it out.” But that’s contact switching. It’s just chewing up and it’s cycles. So that’s what saves us this time and as we get more and more like that, actual business is getting more and more popular, I’m getting lots more of those spam outreach, it’s just gonna save us more and more time. So compounds, compounding returns. Thank you, Hubspot, excellent.

– Now, Craig, onto our marketing tip of the week. And this is about keeping email deliverability good and the effort some people will go through to make sure that you get their emails. I’ll put a screenshot here and I think there’s an email I signed up to here a little while ago. But what I found really interesting was that they said they’re in the process, they actually sent me an email saying they’re in the process of updating their customer service experience and they wanna make sure that I’ve received the latest news and event updates, right? And the domain it comes from had changed. So what they’d done, they had put in the email is to ensure that you get these emails. Please make sure that we’re in your address book and it needs to be updated with the new email sending domain, right? So then they said what the domain was and then they basically, they created a whole page, they’ve created a learning page about how to white list or get your IT team to put the domain in so that you actually got this email and it’s pretty comprehensive. So if you click that link, you’ll actually see that. What are your thoughts on this? What percentage of people would get this and actually go and do that?

– Well, if you’re really keen, for example, Morning Brew, if I got that and I really wanted to continue on, I would probably go through there for it. I really like Morning Brew. I’ve never missed a Morning Brew. I’ve never done that.

– Well, that’s exactly–

– I’d rather add it to white list. But this is the thing, and I guess it’s not so much for us in the sense that we’re using Google for work for our stuff. There are people where businesses that we deal with, say, like in the medical sector that would have that very strict email filtering in their businesses. And even things from Hubspot will get blocked before it even gets to the person.

– Really?

– Yes.

– Okay.

– By an IT filtering rule.

– Right, so how are they even gonna get notified to do this?

– Well, this is the thing, right? So I guess the thing here is that if they were already receiving it, they wanna make sure that if anything further happens–

– It doesn’t get restricted or changed, yeah?

– It’s a change, right?

– Yeah, you can say that.

– It sounds like I’ve just signed up for something, can you please make sure? There have been people that have done that. And there is somebody that I am seeing do this. When you sign up say, “Oh, look, make sure that “if you’re using this, make sure you drag “it into your primary folder “so you make sure you get our emails.” Which I thought was actually really good and then on the landing thank you page actually alerting people that this could happen, but if you wanna hear from us, make sure that it is in your primary inbox. So that’s a really good one and this is just another extreme of that. Look, it’s a good idea and I get that there’s so much email and it gets put into folders, so I wonder, I’d love to know, how would you even measure the effectiveness of this, whether they do it?

– Well, you check the deliverability and you open, right, it was the same as before.

– Well, that’s true. You can compare open rights. Deliverability wouldn’t change.

– Yeah.

– ‘Cause just ’cause it’s another folder it’s still delivered.

– Yep.

– If that’s in your news folder–

– That’s true, there’s still a limit.

– So what I clicked is create.

– That would be the indicator.

– To create would be key, yeah, if they did have IT rules that blocked it then that would effect deliverability. It would be your blocked emails.

– Correct, and you can see that in Hubspot.

– You’ll see that it is a bounced email and it has been blocked by the receiver’s domain and that domain cannot receive email.

– Very good food for though there.

– There you go. What’s our insight of the week, Craig?

– All right, I’m revisiting duplicate content. How many times a week have I did this one the show? So many times, but it keeps coming up and– A lot of people talk about it, right?

– A lot of people are really worried about this, how I’m gonna get a duplicate content penalty.

– Yes.

– So I’ll just give a bit of context, it’s come up this week with a whole bunch of–

– Customers, clients.

– Well, prospects.

– Oh, yes.

– Kyle was at a conference to a whole bunch of our prospects and this came up. Hey, shout out to Kyle, here, by the way, anyway, there’s this idea that if you have content that is on your sight that is on someone else’s sight, you are gonna get a content penalty. Google will penalize your side because you’ve got duplicate content. Now this has, well, a long history because 10 years ago that was much more potentially a problem. It was actually a sense of content, duplicate content penalty, but that hasn’t been the case for years. And to prove the point, in the show notes, I’ve got four separate high authority sites talking about this. One of them is Google talking about this. Anyway, there is no such thing as a duplicate content penalty anymore. In fact, all it’ll call it is content filtering. And here just to set the scope, this is what I’m talking about, people just creating websites, using content, okay? So we’re not talking about those blackout SEOs that do things to manipulate rankings. That might be treated differently, but for all the other businesses that put up content, so typical example, eCommerce side, maybe you’re selling a product on your eCommerce side that isn’t on other products. Maybe it’s on Amazon. You will use similar product descriptions, all this kinda thing. You are not gonna get penalized. However, what Google will do is they will filter and they will filter for the user who’s doing the search to give that user what they consider the best result. Now to give you a very simple example, if it’s location-based, you’re in Sydney, someone else in Melbourne or someone else is in New York.

– Yes.

– Now if you’re searching in New York, whose site do you recon Google’s gonna show the content from. It’s not gonna be the Sydney based one.

– Exactly.

– It’s gonna be the New York one by us, in Sydney, vice versa, right? So that’s what filtering is in action. So this is kinda what the, yeah, as I said, a bunch of people say just trying to read or write this case got some turnout there and I’ll give you a great example in Australia or in other countries. Car dealerships–

– Yes.

– So think of Hyundai. The Hyundai car they are shipping, all these dealers around–

– Australia.

– Australia, in fact, in Sydney there have been multiple Hyundai dealers. Go to their sites, probably 90% of the content on their sites is gonna be the same as every other dealer because they’re gonna have all the car models, bringing up all the finance options.

– The same specific interest.

– The site specs are gonna have probably the same or very similar service offerings, right? And then I’ll have a bit of some original content around their team and a few other things. And a few other things, maybe somebody related, right? Most of the content is the same as every other Hyundai dealer, okay?

– Do you think Google has a penalty on Hyundai dealerships?

– Yeah.

– Hyundai. But what they will do is, they’ll filter it, right? And so if you’re in a particular suburb searching for a Hyundai dealer, you’ll get probably the closest to you or if you’ve actually visited a previous Hyundai dealership, maybe Google will be smart enough to know that was in your history. I’ll show you that one. It probably depends on the device you’re on, like they’ll look at the sites and they’ll go, “Well, this site actually works “on mobile, this one doesn’t.” So if you’re mobile, all these factors, right?

– Yeah.

– Duplicate content penalty? No. Filtering based on what’s the best result for you? Yes.

– Correct.

– And I hope this puts the whole conversation to rest, right?

– To rest.

– If you’ve got a question about that please drop us a note and we can go into it in more details. Some of the show notes go into it in a lot of detail, so you can read through that. I hope that’s helpful.

– Okay, Craig, onto our podcast of the week. And this is a podcast from Seth Godin called “Akimbo.” And I wanna highlight one episode which talks about friction and we talk about frictionless selling. I thought this would be a good episode for people to listen to. And you know why we highlight these episodes and these podcasts to you is to actually grow your understanding beyond marketing and sales, and a lot of these, think, this is actually to broaden our horizons like we learn. And we actually learn a lot from listening to other people doing different things and growing themselves. I encourage you to, if you can’t listen to everything, at least listen to one thing.

– All right, Craig, you’ve got some good resources for the week which is BBC trends for 2020. You can post here from Smart Insights and by the way, yes, folks, the 2020 trends posts have started already.

– They sure have.

– Brace yourself. December’s normally when they start appearing, but no,

– I’m getting into–

– That’s the sort of stuff they’re after.

– It’s like Christmas is coming.

– Yeah, Christmas is coming, that’s further on, so apologies for that, but look, this is actually a good post, ignore the headline. This is really just around some thoughts around where PPC and advertising is going on.

– So what are some key points, Craig?

– Yeah, well I’ve got a few of the highlights I just pulled out. Look, automation of your advertising, that’s what’s probably the biggest thing that’s changing, right? We see this in Google, we see this in Facebook, all the ad platforms, so much of the targeting these days, we just let Facebook work it out. Some of the ads to use, we just let Google work it out. That’s actually one of the other points, they highlight this whole idea of responsive ads. Google’s really, even Facebook’s behind on this. Facebook doesn’t do that particularly well.

– You’re right.

– Well, they do. They will show you the different sizes, but I thinK I was gonna say–

– Yeah, yes.

– Google’s not that responsive with ads.

– Well, that’s because of the placement, right? Just think about Google has so many different placements across the web that it has access to compared to Facebook. And that’s the reason. I think they’ve just had to adapt quicker because of these very massive variations that they have. What’s the next thing, artificial intelligence?

– Well, of course.

– Yes.

– We kind wore the advertising conversation out talking about AI and machine learning.

– Okay.

– So that’s of course making results better.

– And what’s the other one, video ads?

– Yeah, I thought this was a nice follow on from our insight last episode where we were talking about Facebook inflating those video attention or dwell times. But video advertising is on the rise, but in particular video ad format. So, and I mentioned bumper ads, that Google’s got that tool where it’ll just take a longer, a couple minute video and I’ll make six second trunks out of it to use those simple videos. That’s gonna become much more of the norm and I think that is the experience. People seem to be okay being interrupted for few seconds.

– Correct.

– And I think six seconds is probably about right. Those 15 second bumpers that YouTube have. Well, we’ve chatted about this on our show before. I have YouTube Pro, or I pay for it so I never see ads on YouTube, thank goodness.

– Oh, I can’t believe people sit through ads on YouTube, anyway–

– But you know what? Every time after that episode that I have on YouTube, and I see it and I just get reminded of you, Craig.

– You’re right, I would actually go further. I would actually pay for ads to be removed from Twitter.

– Okay.

– I’m not on Facebook really much these days except when I’m running, managing ad campaigns. But, Instagram, I’m hardly ever on, but I am on Twitter a fair bit.

– So would you pay to get ads removed off of Google, if you could?

– Yes, I would.

– Interesting.

– Yeah, you mean on Google Search?

– Maybe not Google Search because they’re normally high intent. So if I’m searching for something and the ad probably is very relevant to me.

– It usually is.

– YouTube, I’ve got it blocked, Twitter, I would actually pay to have them removed.

– Oh, okay.

– I’d pay five bucks. I’d pay five bucks a month for Medium, I’d pay five bucks a month for Twitter to be ad free because most of the ads are not helpful to me. And Facebook, if I was on there I would pay to optionally be able to remove it. Yeah, just ’cause it interrupts even the flow and then you just fade from me. As you know, I’ve subscribed to a whole bunch of news sites and I don’t pay for it. That’s money well spent for me.

– Okay. It’s time, right?

– It’s got less distraction.

– You’re getting less distraction, you’re getting back your time. And I kinda choke when I say that because a lot our agencies–

– Just running ads.

– Just managing ads for clients. There’s an internal conflict there which–

– It’s–

– I’m struggling with.

– Yeah, all right, Craig, onto our quote of the week.

– Oh, hell. I’ll read the quote. Well, you can read the quote. “Let’s not confuse getting better “at stuff with being a better person.” One is as much big a priority than the other and this is from the Daily Stoic which I quite like. We get better and better at ads all the time, but is it making us a better person? I don’t think so.

– No, that’s not making us better, Craig.

– Oh, my goodness, that quote was from me. all right, listen as there are some brightest links of the week that we highlight some great things to do with audience segmentation and so on. I’d love you take a look at the show. We’d love you to leave a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify and again, we’d love to hear from our listeners, if you’ve got anything at all, even just to say, “Hi,” we would love to hear from you. Wherever you are in the world, we love hearing from you guys. It’s sometimes a bit lonely here, but that’s all right. We do appreciate you listening and we do appreciate anything that we do get. And until next time, Craig.

– Catch ya later, Ian.

– Hey, there thanks for listening to this episode Hubshots. For show notes and the latest Hubshots news and tips please visit us at hubshots.com. ♪ Magic girl ♪

Episode 178

Episode 178: How to ‘Test and Measure’ when you can’t measure, plus Merging Contacts gotcha

Welcome to Episode 178 of Hubshots!

HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

This episode we chat about how to avoid a gotcha when merging contacts, plus think through how to ‘test and measure’ video engagement.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/178-how-to-test-and-measure-when-you-cant-measure-plus-merging-contacts-gotcha/

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD3Uo4X-IxPJLE8ygPDQhNQ

Subscribe to our Spotify channel here: https://open.spotify.com/show/7oee8w41riN5aRNrLKT2ar

Join the Facebook group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/hubshots/

Follow us on Twitter here: https://twitter.com/hubshots

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Follow us on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hubshots/

Recorded: Wednesday 23 October 2019 | Published: Friday 1 November 2019

Shot 1: Growth Thought of the Week

Our strategy for the podcast

Using it mainly as a bottom of the funnel marketing piece.

We use it to drive perception and credibility.

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

How to change your email in HubSpot

Example scenario: you change your company domain and everyone’s email address changes

How do you update your HubSpot login to use the new address?

Go to your profile, there is a button to change your email address and follow the verification steps as outlined here > https://knowledge.hubspot.com/account/how-do-i-change-the-email-address-of-a-user
<h2″>Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week
</h2″>

Territory rotation with Workflows

https://blog.hubspot.com/customers/territory-division-and-lead-rotation-in-hubspot-workflows

Thanks Kyle!

A good example of using workflows to help with sales processes

Shot 4: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

Side-effects of merging contacts

Be aware that merging contacts can re-trigger workflows for the destination contact

https://knowledge.hubspot.com/contacts/how-do-i-merge-contacts

https://knowledge.hubspot.com/contacts/deduplication-of-contacts-companies-deals-tickets

You may have started getting email notifications from HubSpot telling you about contacts you can merge. This is good for data cleanliness, but can be a gotcha, which I don’t think HubSpot does a good job of warning people about.

How to handle this: Have exclusions lists in your workflows

Have a process for handling this – the best way to manage it is to have Global Suppression Lists setup which are set in all workflows. Add all the contacts you are going to merge into the Global Suppression list before your merge, and then take them out after the merge.

Listen to Shot 2 back in episode 149 for more details on how we implement this:

https://www.hubshots.com/episodes/episode-149

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

No more mixed http and https content messages – Chrome will block http content

https://security.googleblog.com/2019/10/no-more-mixed-messages-about-https_3.html

However, Chrome is going to do it as intelligently as possible – and will autoupgrade items (eg images) to use their https version if it is available. If not, it will simply block it.

Action item: Check your sites for http items and update to https

Shot 6: Insight of the Week

Test and Measure

How do you ‘test and measure’ if you can’t be confident in the measurements?

Take Facebooks overestimation of video views debacle:

https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/17/17989712/facebook-inaccurate-video-metrics-inflation-lawsuit

https://www.adweek.com/digital/facebook-hid-inflated-video-ad-metrics-error-for-over-a-year-advertisers-allege/

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-45901287

Summary of the issue: how they calculated time spent watching (total time divided by ‘view’ instead of total time divided by ‘started watching’)

Eg if total time watched is 3 mins, and 3 people start watching, but only 1 actually views for more than 3 seconds, then there is a big difference

By one calc the average watch time is 3 mins, with the other it is 1 min, ie a 300% difference

How to accurately test and measure

The key is to push your measurement to be more than just engagement – aim to get visits and conversions as well

It’s also a reminder that using multiple analytics packages is fine – they won’t agree exactly, but they should be within 10% of each other. Eg using both HubSpot analytics and Google analytics on your site.

Here’s an example of bad marketing practices:

https://twitter.com/_loganmcdonald/status/1185992782999162880

Shot 7: Podcast of the Week

Business Casual by Morning Brew

IMG AEF5C66EFF7F 1

Shot 8: Resource of the Week

AskGoogleWebMasters

Question: Is it a problem if my page has multiple H1 tags.

Answer: No

John Mueller gives a few pointers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyqJJXWk0gk

12  Multiple H1 headings  how to handle them for SEO   accessibility   AskGoogleWebmasters   YouTube

Shot 9: Quote of the Week

“Dressing well is a form of good manners.”

  • Tom Ford

From Clare Sheng’s wonderful book: The Suit Book

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week

Google Search Console has a few new reports related to video (if you use markup with your videos):

https://webmasters.googleblog.com/2019/10/search-console-video-results-reports.html

Ahrefs is building a search engine with a 90/10 revenue sharing model

https://medium.com/swlh/investor-money-vs-public-interest-did-google-fail-to-build-a-non-evil-platform-3a054f996ea9

Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

Episode 178

– [Ian] Hi everyone, welcome to HubShots episode 178. In this episode, we look at how to test and measure when you can’t measure plus merging contacts, gotcha in HubSpot. You’re listening to Asia Pacific’s number one HubSpot-focused podcast, where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks, features and strategies for growing your marketing and sales results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. How are you, Craig?

– [Craig] Really good and you know what’s unusual about this episode? We’re actually recording this during daylight hours.

– I know.

– For once. So you came over, we had lunch together–

– [Ian] That’s right.

– [Craig] and it’s about four o’clock in the afternoon.

– [Ian] It’s a cracker of a day outside, I have to say.

– [Craig] It’s so good, but yeah, there’s light, it’s light as we record. Normally, we’re recording late at night so this is a bit of a treat for us.

– [Ian] Onto our growth strategy for the week, Craig, or our growth thought for the week.

– [Craig] Yeah, well, this is something that I’ve said a couple of episodes. We’re gonna chat about our approach to the podcast because this has came up at the HubSpot user group back in September and we’re just gonna mention our approach and this might be useful to listeners because we actually don’t use the podcast as a top of the funnel base, which people might think is weird. Aren’t you trying to get new listeners? Aren’t you trying to grow your audience? Of course everyone wants that and we do want that. And as our listenership grows, that’s great. But once you know the key criteria, actually what we use it for or I’ll talk about it myself, you can chat maybe a little bit different, but it’s a credibility piece. So, for me and our agency, it’s very much bottom of the funnel. It’s about showing our expertise. It’s also about our credibility. And so, rather than generating leads from the podcast, it’s more about when we get a prospect, we’re chatting with them, they look to the podcast to get confidence in us. So, it’s more of a closer. It’s actually more of a sales tool at the end than a marketing tool at the top. How do you feel? Is that similar for you?

– [Ian] It has been very similar for me, Craig, and even more so probably for this year, I would say that’s been a big part of it. So, I think I am trying to with some of the stuff we’re doing internally in our business and like we’ve been doing for ourselves is try to drive more of that to the top of the funnel, so to get people interested.

– [Craig] And here’s the thing. A lot of our work just comes through referral. So, the question for, well, other agencies and small businesses is if you’re getting a lot of work through referrals, should you actually be spending time at the top of the funnel awareness and all these kind of bigger company play books? And well, no, not really. Why would you spend money and time and effort focusing on completely new audiences, if you’re getting referral, right? That makes sense for small business. But as you grow, of course, referral kind of plateaus and you do need to move more to and inbound marketing piece and much more top of the funnel. So, we will be pushing that as we’re growing and I think that’s probably our 2020 goal. We’ll be doing a lot more of that. Pushing the podcast out there, a bit more awareness. But anyway, I just thought that was, perhaps, interesting for our listeners and marketers in general. It’s always about thinking what’s the goal for each piece of content and the strategy behind it. Anyway, just an insight into ours.

– [Ian] All right, Craig, onto our HubSpot Marketing feature of the week. And this is about how to change your email in HubSpot. Now, why I’m gonna highlight this is I had a customer of ours that has moved their email from a dot com domain to a dot com dot au or vice versa and they wanted to know well, how do I change this? Now, in previous times, I would’ve gone oh, you need to create a new user for yourself, go through the whole process, then reassign all the contacts to yourself. Anyway, you don’t need to do that. You go to your profile preferences. You can actually edit your email address that’s associated to your account and then you have to go through the reverification process again, but it means that now you don’t have to go through all that malarkey that you used to do before. So, there you go.

– [Craig] Who would’ve thought it was that simple, eh?

– [Ian] I know.

– [Craig] Just go to your profile and update it.

– [Ian] Thank you to HubSpot Support for pointing that out to us.

– [Craig] By the way, I was listening when you had that HubSpot ’cause you called them, right?

– That’s right.

– And, well, apart from some interesting on hold music.

– [Ian] I know that, the on hold music, I don’t know about the on hold music.

– [Craig] Worth calling ’em just to listen to that, my goodness. But anyway, it’s super helpful. I’m sure we have, but have we ever had a bad support experience? Gee, they’re good.

– [Ian] I think about this is the marketing and growth thought of the week. That’s one thing that they’ve nailed, support. All right, onto our HotSpot sales feature of the week Craig. Territory rotation with work flows. Shout out to Kyle for this blog post

– Jepson.

– Yep. They’ve been pushing a lot on round work flows and you know how we love work flows.

– I know.

– I love work flows.

– [Ian] I read this when I got the email notification. It was actually really good.

– [Craig] I think the message from this more generally is you can do anything with work flows. That’s where we’re getting to the point where when someone has a question how do I do this? It’s not a standard feature. It’s like, well, my go-to is I’m pretty sure we can work out how to do that in a work flow. So, this is a good article in this. In this case, territories and assigning them, rotation. So a good post so just go through and get an insight into that.

– [Ian] All right, onto the HubSpot gotcha of the week Craig and this has to do with the side effects of merging contacts. Now, I’m liking this feature in HubSpot, right? And been getting notifications and my customers are getting confused. They’re like what is this merging contacts stuff? Anyway, we’re gonna tell you that there is a gotcha to this that would happen, especially if you’re running work flows on the backend that rely on contact properties. There are things that get triggered when you merge work flows. So, tell us more, Craig.

– [Craig] Well, I almost wanna say with work flows after just talking about how awesome they are, as we do every episode, it’s kind of like with great power comes great responsibility, so to speak. Work flows, they can be very powerful but they can also have gotchas like this. Now, we actually mentioned this way back I think at the start of the year in episode 149.

– [Ian] Yes, we did.

– [Craig] Where we talked about merging contacts. and basically this side effect that many people I don’t think are aware of. And what it is, let’s say you’ve got contact A and you’re gonna merge it into contact B. Now contact B, let’s say they signed up on the site, they filled in a form and then it sent some thank you emails, put them in a nurture, right? Let’s say they did that a year ago, so that’s contact B and that’s the one you’re merging into. Now contact A might just be a variation of their email address and you happen to notice it because you get one of those nice notifications from HubSpot, thanks for sending those out. So you go along, you go right, I’ll just put HubSpot contact A into B, so you merge it. Bang, suddenly all those work flows that contact B has already been through get triggered again for contact A. And so, this can be quite puzzling, quite distressing for clients, as well. It’s like right, well, how did this happen? Well, here’s the side effect. And you know what? A slight criticism of HubSpot for this ’cause even though they’ve got a support article that talks about potential downsides and we’ve got that linked in the show notes. When they send these emails out saying you’ve got all these contacts to merge and they have that list, they don’t make it clear. There might be a little message, you know, oh be aware that there could be these effects, but I actually think this is a big gotcha and it’s causing confusion for clients and I think it’s gonna be a big problem that HubSpot’s got on their hands. Anyway, how do you get around it? Which, of course, is the key. Now, we’ve got a bit of a workaround and we went through this back in episode 149 and it involves creating exclusion lists. And one of the things you might know in work flows, is you can have exclusion lists or suppression lists that basically if someone is in one of these exclusion lists they don’t go through the work flow. And we have this process with the clients. We have this whole process where if we’re gonna merge contacts, we put those contacts into an exclusion list so that they don’t get triggered into work flows. Or if they do, they’re just excluded from work flow. We put the into those exclusion lists, we then merge the contacts and then we take those contacts out of the exclusion lists. Well, the resulting, finalized contact list. And that’s the way you get around it, so it’s quite manual. You actually have to go through all your contacts and put them in these exclusions lists, then remember to take them out in order to stop this side effect of the work flows. Now, that’s the workaround at the moment. I hope HubSpot comes up with a better kind of option. For example, what I’d love is just when you merge and option that says do not trigger any work flows. As simple as that. That’s really what they need. I think they’ll bring that out ’cause I think there’s gonna be a problem for clients.

– Yes.

– Anyway, that’s the gotcha and that’s the workaround at the moment. Find us in episode 149 shot to for more details on that.

– [Ian] Excellent. Now onto our marketing tip of the week, Craig. No more mixed http and https content messages and Chrome will block http content. So this, listeners, is sites that haven’t been transitioned to a secure… have a security certificate and are secure. And within that, there’s obviously images and other assets that get caught, so previously people might’ve know of this as mixed content warnings where the site might actually be secure but it’s calling as if it’s on an insecure server. And what Chrome does is it basically highlights to you and says oh this is unsafe. Do you wanna proceed, right? So, what have they done, Craig?

– [Craig] Well, this is in an upcoming release. What they’re going to do is instead of just giving warnings they’re just gonna block that resource. Your page loads and let’s say there’s an insecure http resource–

– Yeah, like an image, yeah.

– They just won’t show it. It’ll just be kind of rendered out, yeah.

– [Ian] Rendered out, yeah.

– [Craig] Yeah, so that there’s no chance.

– [Ian] so, I mean, this is really interesting. I’ll tell you why. Because people that haven’t gone through the due diligence and the process of upgrading to a secure site properly are gonna have this problem. Like I’m only telling you this because we have gone through a process with customers over the last few years where we’ve actually gone through, checked all the mixed content warnings, made sure that everything’s being called correctly. And then there are are other people that we’ve dealt with who are just like oh, no, don’t worry, just apply the certificate, don’t worry about it. It’ll all be good. These are the people that are gonna suffer very soon when it comes to these–

– [Craig] Yeah, look and I think it depends on the hosting and also plugins, like in WordPress you can get plugins that force all the resources. One of the things I will say about this upcoming chrome release is that they’re gonna be smart about it. So, they’re going to, let’s say it’s just an http image, so non secure, they will check the https version and if it’s there, that’ll load that instead. So, it’s doing some smarts in the background. Thanks Chrome, that’s actually a good thing. But, if they can’t find the secure, bang, they’re just gonna leave it out.

– [Ian] First thing, make sure you’ve got a security certificate. Second, once you’ve done that check for mixed content warnings and then go through appropriate remediation to get all of that fixed before this rolls out so you don’t get affected. All right, Craig, onto our insight of the week. A little a, what do I call? Our maxim. Test and measure that we always talk about. And thinking of Chris, we just spoke to Chris–

– [Craig] Chris Mottram, our producer who is helping us test and measure to get our audio quality even better. Thanks, Chris.

– [Ian] And this is something that you were telling me over lunch which totally bypassed me, but metrics on videos in Facebook are totally wrong.

– [Craig] That’s right. So let me give you a bit of the background to this just quickly because the background’s interesting but, I guess, the ramifications of it are even more important. So, this all goes back a couple years to when Facebook was rolling out video and are giving stats on average video view time, but they calculated it incorrectly. And I think this goes back to starting in 2015 and the reason it’s came to light is ’cause there was a class action or legal action actually taken against Facebook in 2016 about them incorrectly reporting the stats. Now, just quickly what they had done is in terms of calculating average view time, they were taking all the time that it was viewed and then instead of dividing by the total number of people who might have just started watching. Remember how the videos used to auto play just starting as you were scrolling through? They only divided it by the number of people who were actually called a viewer. So, the kinds of people that watched for at least three seconds or four seconds count as a view. The difference is, if you only divided by that smaller number of people, the average view time looks really high. Whereas if it was divided by actually the number of people that indirectly just started it, then it was must lower. So the point is that their numbers or the metrics were inflated by well, multiples up to, and some people claim 800%, et cetera. So, that’s all the background. Now, that all started in 2016. It’s all come out now recently because it’s part of that ongoing legal action. They’ve had access to internal Facebook communication. Like hundreds and hundreds of pages of emails and so forth. And it turns out, Facebook knew about this for more than a year before they did anything about it. Even though, they’re saying oh sorry, small calculation error. Yeah, we fixed it, minimal effect, right? What’s coming out now is that it was massively overestimated or overinflated numbers and they knew about it for ages. They did nothing about it and they didn’t bother. It wasn’t a concern, right? Okay, so that’s the history. What’s the ramifications of that? The ramifications are lots of things. First of all, people were moving ad budgets from other platforms onto Facebook because you remember a couple years ago everyone’s all like oh video, video is the future, right? And, of course, it is but the numbers on Facebook seemed so good and so cheap, as a result that people were pushing whole budgets away from, say, YouTube and other platforms onto Facebook. And the problem is because the numbers were inflated, they weren’t getting the results they expected. Maybe you’re expecting similar results to what you get on YouTube but it’s not happening on Facebook, et cetera. So, there’s been whole, I guess, marketing budgets pushed into a platform or a medium, which has been false. Like, in fact, not only a mistake, but you could actually say deliberately withheld. So, here comes the question ’cause we are always saying test and measure. How do we test and measure if we can’t actually measure accurately? If we can’t be confident? So that’s what I wanna chat about today in this insight. So, but before we go on, I’ve spoken for a bit there. Did you wanna make any comments about that and maybe some action items from your point of view before I, yeah, go on a bit?

– [Ian] Yes, so I think one of the actions here is we all know that, especially where we work within HubSpot, there’s a little bit of leaks in there. We also always put in the Google Analytics so we have a second point of reference. Now, it might not always be exactly 100% because people measure things differently in terms of what’s the duration that this measurement takes into account before it actually gets measured, which can be different, so give me your different results. But, regardless to say, there are all these different points or analytics packages that we can use to collect data. So if you’re using a particular package to collect data about your videos, then you should be able to tell is the video playback, or the points at which people are dropping off or playing, is it that the same as what’s being reported? That’s essentially what I wanted to say, so like having a second point of reference.

– [Craig] Actually, you’ve highlighted one thing, which is you wanna get them off Facebook onto your site in some point. So, one of the keys to coming around this is not only engagement but actually conversion stats, so you get them to your site. So, you might have a Facebook video but the call to action is to get them to your site so that you can actually compare whether it’s working. So for all those people who moved away from YouTube to Facebook, there should have been an end result, which was is it actually building audiences that drive people to your website, or to some other conversion action, not just an engagement metric. However, your point around having multiple analytics packages is perfect because there’s multiple video platforms. So another, I guess, takeaway from this is don’t just choose one channel and solely put all your budget there. You might start with one channel but then you gotta grow it out. So for example, if you’re running a number of videos on Facebook, run them on YouTube, run them on LinkedIn, run them on twitter. Run them on various platforms and check across each because if Facebook is looking ridiculously good in terms of engagement, perhaps something’s wrong. And this could be any of the other platforms you know, it could be Twitter in the future, it could be LinkedIn, who knows? THey’re probably all gonna have problems, but at least by having multiple platforms that you’re using you can actually compare and work out some anomalies. But then, the main takeaway is you’ve gotta get them back to a conversion action. And by conversion action, we’re ultimately talking about getting an email address. If you can get that, that’s I guess, the goal at the end to compare across the channels.

– [Ian] All right, Craig, on top podcast of the week and this is a business casual podcast from Morning Brew. And Morning Brew is one of the probably of the emails we read every day.

– [Craig] I love this, in terms of a daily email newsletter. We’ve talked about this before. There’s not many I read every day.

– That’s right.

– Morning Brew’s one of them.

– [Ian] Anyway, they’ve got a great podcast and they’ve been interviewing some really interesting people so I would encourage you to listen to it. It just broadens your horizon on the different things people are out there doing and I love it.

– [Craig] Isn’t it interesting how these, we’ll call them news sites, are moving into other mediums? So, Morning Brew, moving away. Not away, but complimenting an email newsletter, which is what they’re famous for, with a podcast. I’m not sure where it was, Netflix maybe the other day, but New York Times, of course, and they have these little video documentaries. I think it’s called “15 Minutes.” Little stories by the New York Times turning what is a written piece into a video piece. And they’re all really good. So yeah, we’re seeing this move into other mediums.

– [Ian] All right, now we’ve got a couple of resources of the week, Craig. Ask Google webmasters, there was a question in there. Is it a problem if my page has multiple hitting one tags? And the answer is–

– The answer’s no. This actually came as a surprise to me ’cause as a longtime SEO, it’s always been look, just trying to have one H1, hitting one, that’s a hitting one, H1. I only have one H1 tag on your site and there still is good reason to do it ’cause Google looks at it as a sign of what this page–

– Hierarchy, right?

– Yeah, hierarchy. But yeah, Google is like no, have as many as you want, that’s fine, if it highlights important things, that’s good. Use it for readability. So we’ve got John Muir from Google Little Webmaster Hangout talking about that in the show notes.

– [Ian] Yeah, and listeners if you don’t know about John Muir and those hangouts that he does, I encourage you If you’re not in your business doing this, share this with the person that is. Because I think there’s some really good information in there that you can often use and pick up. And often a lot of myths get dispelled and what we often hear out there in the marketplace. If you listen to the source and go, oh, hang on, that’s just rubbish. You don’t have to worry about it, right? You don’t have to waste your time thinking about it.

– [Craig] Well, look, let me put a caveat on that. ‘Cause, you know, I’m always cynical about Google.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] When they give guidance like this, I’m like yeah, okay, that’s fine. But when they give some other guidance, sometimes, I’m like yeah, well, that seems to work well for Google, maybe not for people. Always be running ads on your brand. It’s like yeah, okay, so, I don’t know if that’s the best advice from Google, but yeah.

– [Ian] Anyway, test and measure, I say.

– [Craig] Test and measure.

– [Ian] All right, the quote of the week, Craig.

– [Craig] Okay, so why’d you pick this?

– [Ian] Well, I picked this because you gave me a book. It’s called “The Suit Book: Everything “You Need to Know about Wearing a Suit” by Clare Sheng. And one of the quotes in this book was “Dressing well is a form of good manners.” And it’s from Tom Ford. Now you’ve read this book and you really liked this book.

– [Craig] I really liked this book and and listeners, I’ll just say like I’m your typical nerdy geek, I dress badly… Well badly, I just, I dress comfortably.

– [Ian] Craig, let’s put it this way. You dress comfortably and every since I’ve know you, you have like this, let me say it, you’ve got five shirts that are all the same. But you probably have more, right?

– [Craig] I have 10 shirts.

– [Ian] 10 shirts that are all the same. He’s got 10 T-shirts that are all the same. He’s got three pairs of shoes that are all the same. So, if that’s any indication–

– [Craig] Look, It’s just efficiency. It’s easy. I’m not gonna pretend I’m Barack Obama or Zuckerberg, I’m so busy that it solves decisions. It’s just like it’s easy and it’s comfortable, right? So I’ve been like this anyway. I’m trying to dress better. Can you believe this?

– That’s right.

– I’m trying to lift my game.

– It’s good, I’m impressed.

– We’ll see how it goes.

– [Ian] So far, Craig has gone with a new pair of R.M. Williams. I’m really excited about that.

– [Craig] I’m trying to wear better shoes, better pants, I’m actually getting things tailored now. I don’t know. But anyways, we’ll see how it goes. Actually, why are we telling the listeners this? I don’t know if they need to know this but anyway, this book had an impact. Oh, I know what I was gonna say. ‘Cause this book had an impact on me because we were chatting before, ignorance is bliss.

– [Ian] That’s exactly right.

– [Craig] After reading this how to dress well, now I’m actually like oh my gosh. I’m badly dressed and I notice it all the time, and so ignorance was bliss when I didn’t know. Oh well, I’m trying to improve.

– [Ian] There we go, listeners. Now, there are a couple of bonus links in this show so I encourage you to check it out. What else can I say?

– [Craig] Test and measure.

– [Ian] Test and measure. Well Craig, until next time.

– [Craig] Catch ya later, Ian.

– [Ian] Thank you for listening to this episode of HubShots. For show notes, resources, HubSpot news including practical strategies you can implement, visit us as hubshots.com.