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HubShots Episode 186: Optimising Popup Forms

Episode 186: Optimising Popup Forms

Welcome to HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

This episode we chat more about using behaviour targeting on HubSpot popup forms. Plus we ponder whether you should show ads to existing customers.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/186-optimising-popup-forms/

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

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Recorded: Wednesday 11 December 2019 | Published: Friday 24 January 2020

Shot 1: Growth Thought of the Week

Have you started thinking about your marketing plans for 2020?

Welcome back (again)

To the Two Turkeys podcast – that’s a reference to episode 181.

We have stickers!

We’re recording this on 11 December 2019 but it probably won’t go live until 10 January 2020, which means that by the time you hear this you’ll be well into planning your marketing campaigns.

What have you planned? How is it different to last year?

HubSpot HealthCheck: https://www.xen.com.au/services/hubspot-healthcheck

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Behavioural targeting in HubSpot Popup Forms

More on behavioural targeting in Popup Forms (note: we only use slide-in forms)

Action item:

  • Sort your popup forms by number of views
  • Review low Submission rate forms
  • Set exclusion targeting as appropriate

hubspot popup forms optimising

Goal is to increase the submission rate of forms

Typical opportunities:

  • Newsletter and Blog signup forms that show site wide

Shot 3: Sales Tip of the Week

Own your sub-optimal processes

If you receive client feedback about issues with your processes, own it, respond quickly, improve it.

Ian shares his experience with buying a Mazda CX9.

Shot 4: HubSpot Extra of the Week

Content partitioning

Rolling out across all assets:


This is coming up in more client discussions – being able to partition content and contacts between teams in companies.

Still slightly confusing to set up at first.

Take an approach of locking assets down, versus opening assets up.

Also note that it isn’t immediately obvious how to partition assets ie Assign to users

hubspot asset options

Aside: I’m not a fan of having to tick a line in order to see the actions available.

Also note that Move is not an action on the More dropdown, it is only available by ticking and seeing the actions available

Shot 5: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

Non-HubSpot forms tracking login submissions

There’s no way to turn them off on pages like the WordPress login page

Workaround: use GTM to insert the script and set the trigger to exclude /wp- pages

Shot 6: Marketing Tip of the Week

GMB reminder

Another reminder to keep your Google My Business profiles up-to-date – it’s the only real remaining free Google asset that is still available to all businesses large and small that is easy to manage.

Some tips here:


Shot 7: Insight of the Week

Should you stop showing ads to customers?

Saw a MailChimp user on Twitter complaining that they were seeing ads for MailChimp.

They were complaining that MailChimp should know they are a customer and exclude them from being targeted.

A few comments:

  • Not sure if this is intentional or not on MailChimp’s part, but I’m going to assume it is. In which case they’ve likely analysed the data and found that existing customers retain longer, use more features, or add usage, based on advertising => test and measure
  • Possibly they are trying to exclude customers, but this person complaining (who is likely tech savvy) has an ad blocker that blocks tracking scripts and thus can’t be part of an exclusion audience

Takeaway for marketers:

  • Make sure you have a strategy to test eg is retargeting existing customers a good ROI
  • Start with an assumption (hypothesis), and test and measure

Shot 8: HubSpot Throwback of the Week

Here’s what HubSpot was announcing 12 months ago:

HubSpot renamed the Content Strategy tool to be SEO:


Shot 9: Resource of the Week

Exploding Topics


A neat window into Google Trends topics

Shot 10: Quote of the Week

Your success and happiness lies in you. Resolve to keep happy, and your joy and you shall form an invincible host against difficulties.

  • Helen Keller


“Test and Measure” – Two Turkeys

Shot 11: Bonus Links of the Week

Recorded with love by Two Turkeys.

Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

HubShots Episode 186: Optimising Popup Forms

– Hi everyone, welcome to HubShots, episode 186. In this episode we chat about using behavioral targeting on HubSpot popup forms, plus we ponder whether you should show ads to existing customers. You’re listening to Asia Pacific’s number one HubSpot focused podcast, where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks, strategies and features for growing your sales marketing results. My name’s Ian Jacob, found with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. How are ya Craig?

– Really good, and welcome to 2020. What’s interesting about this is we were working out schedule for the shows. We’re recording this on the 11th of December, but due to, I don’t know, I’m gonna say how organized we are, but actually it’s how badly organized we are, this show won’t appear til probably the 10th of January hearing this. And we were realizing that this means the show you heard last week probably had us wishing you a Merry Christmas, even though it was 2020. So sorry folks, but yeah. This is our 2020 welcome back episode, also known as the Two Turkeys podcast.

– That’s right. We’d thought we’d rebrand for 2020, hey Craig?

– Yes, and folks, that’s a reference to episode 181 when you made an offhand comment about two turkeys, that’s us, making a comment about the product. I don’t know if that translates in Australia. Turkey is kind of like a, check out that turkey.

– That’s right.

– It’s like a bit of a fool. But I don’t know if that translates.

– Not quite to our US listeners, right?

– Yeah, anyway the Two Turkeys podcast, that’s us.

– So Craig, what have we got planned for 2020?

– What’s interesting, it’s always that start of the year is the time to think about, well what have we got planned marketing, and I am actually interested in listeners. I’d love to get some feedback from listeners what you’re actually doing. I know everyone tries to be planning for the year in the previous year, so if you were really organized, you would have had your 2020 plans all–

– Done.

– All the strategy in place already, but look, let’s be realistic, for most people it’s not. They’re coming back after a break and they’re getting into it. And I think this is a good time just to reflect, think about what you’re doing, and also look at how, well, not to be too blatant about it, but how you could be using HubSpot better to accelerate and automate your marketing implementation.

– Correct, and you know what’s really great to staff with, is to have a HubSpot portal review, Craig.

– A bit of a HubSpot health check.

– That’s right, a HubSpot health–

– Help you with that. Yeah, so check out the link in the show notes. And also an annual marketing review.

– Yes.

– This is something we do for clients.

– We’ve been doing that too, so that’s a really good one. And you know what’s really good? Having a one page marketing plan that everyone looks at. And if you just keep it front and center, I think it’s a great way to realign the team and make sure that you’re on track, and you know, make sure you’re using campaigns within HubSpot because that’ll keep you on track and you can attribute it revenue back to some marketing goals, Craig. So Craig, talking about our marketing feature of the week.

– So I’m gonna talk about behavioral targeting in popup forms again, ’cause we talked about this last–

– In the previous episode.

– And sorry listeners, again that you’re hearing this in January because this feature came out, I think at the end of November actually.

– Correct. It was in the December update.

– Right. So by the time you’re hearing this again, why are they talking about this new feature, behavioral targeting? Well it’s because we recorded this show four weeks ago when it was new, so hopefully you’re using it already, but if you haven’t, here’s a quick recap of what it is. It’s part of the targeting on popup forms to show, to dictate where they show. So previously you could say, oh this URL, maybe some UTM parameters. Now, and it’s called behavioral targeting, you can target it based on things that they’ve done on your site. They could’ve visited pages as we know, but they could be part of a list. And this is the most obvious one. Are they already part of a list? Are they a customer? Lifecycle stage, all these kinds of things, and so I want to remind listeners, that this probably one of the simplest and yet most effective things that you can get in place on your HubSpot forms on your site.

– Now Craig, what is some action items people can take away?

– All right, so here’s a quick suggestion for how you prioritize this. You go to your forms listing, you just choose popup forms, you order by the number of views that those popup forms have got over the, say all time. Could be the last month but I would just say all time. And I’ve got a screenshot in the show notes for this. And then you pick off the ones that have the lowest submission rate. So what you’re identifying is popup forms that show a lot, but yet not many people fill them out. And I’m gonna have a guess that for many people, the newsletter, and blogs subscribe forms are in this category because people have already signed up for them. So why show them again and again? Well, you don’t have to anymore. You can actually go into the behavioral targeting and exclude it from showing to people who have already filled out that form. So start with those, and the whole goal is you want to improve the submission rates of your popup forms.

– Now Craig, people will often ask me, what is a good submission rate, Craig?

– Well it depends, however, I’m always looking for something more than 2%, and I think in the screenshot we’ve even got some over 20%. Popup forms, and I know we’ve got higher than that on, I probably should, you know what? I should’ve–

– Hyper targeted.

– I should’ve selectively sorted it by submission rate, ’cause I know we have some that are more, higher, but they’re very specific. Typically if you’ve got a general site wide thing, it’s not gonna have a high submission rate. But I think they’ll get better now. Even site wide, because once people fill them out, it’ll cut down those views and the submission rate percentage will look much better. But yeah typically 2% at least is what you’re going for.

– So Craig, is one of the tips is, if someone has filled out that form, should we be adding them to a list to never show that form, popup form again?

– That’s exactly right. You can create an active list based on which popup form they’ve filled out, so you just target that, create a specific list. And then in that form, exclude that. So it’s very clear. And as we said last episode, you can then start kind of creating chains or funnels of popup forms.

– Yes.

– So since they’ve filled out this popup form, don’t show it anymore, show the next one only to people who have filled out that previous form.

– All right Craig, sales tip of the week. Own your suboptimal process.

– Isn’t suboptimal such a great word?

– It is. So if you received client feedback about issues with your process, you need to own it, respond to it quickly, and improve it.

– Now I’ve had an experience of this lately, but you’ve had an experience of it as well. So tell me about your experience where you got a suboptimal, you were part of a suboptimal process and how it was resolved?

– You know I love cars, and this was my last time I was buying a Mazda CX-9 for my wife. And so, very excitedly, you know, went in, spoke to different people, did the deal, and so I dealt with this dealership many times over. I had a great sales guy named Darren, got the car, and we were taking the car, we were going on our trip, we were going on a trip to Melbourne actually, I think for a wedding. So we were really excited.

– So just to explain. So you live in Sydney, Sydney to Melbourne is what, a 10 hour drive?

– Yeah, about eight hour–

– Actually–

– Oh no.

– Actually depending which car you’re driving.

– Yeah, that’s right. I think it’s about eight hours, Craig, if you go straight through, ’cause the roads would become so much better now. It used to be 10 hours. So we were really excited, here we are, kind of like, probably, that was probably the first new car we’ve probably bought since we’ve been married.

– Oh and by the way, happy anniversary for you this week.

– Oh, thank you.

– Congratulations.

– And so we were really excited, anyway, going on the trip, got all the whole sat nav and everything. Anyway, the sat nav screen, all the, in cars now you’ve got the centralized screen, this screen keeps cutting out, right? So we’ve got the sat nav on, really excited, first car we’ve had with sat nav and all of these exciting things that show up on this really nice screen in the middle. Anyway, it keeps cutting out. I’m like, oh, this is not, this is a very suboptimal experience. Anyway, take a picture, send it to the guy, he’s like okay we’re cool, we’ll get it sorted out. Come back, return back from Melbourne, send the car in, anyway they can’t find the problem. I’m like, okay, this is not very good, because this keeps happening. So anyway I’m like, there’s got to be a problem. This is happening to me all the time, like you can’t tell me that just because you plug your computer, it says there’s nothing wrong, it’s not working. Anyway at this point I’m getting really angry, right, because they’re like, there’s no problem with the screen, we can’t do anything, you know, we can’t replicate this problem. So anyway, I had to leave the car with them. Now, and now I’m getting really angry, so now I actually now look up the general manager of the dealership and I’m like, I want my money back, I want another car essentially. You know, this is just not, this experience is getting from bad to worse. Anyway get on, I know the service manager, get on really well with him, so I said, look I think there is a problem and I don’t think it’s software related, it’s actually probably hardware related. Anyway, this is after I’d sent the general manager an email and then he got the sales guy to respond. So he didn’t respond, but I’m now trying to have a conversation with him. Gets escalated, service manager who I happen to know, who’d been there for years, like 10 years. Anyway, he goes, okay well I’m gonna take a screen out of another car and put it into your car to test it out to make sure. Anyway that happens, problem fixed. Faulty screen, right? But they would not have found that if they didn’t actually take it out of one car and put it into another. Anyway, why I want to share this experience was, all through this process I’ve been trying to get to the man at the top to say, hey there’s a problem here, and everyone’s just fobbing me off, and I just, I just want to get it fixed. I like the car, I like you guys, I just want my car to work the way, what I paid for. Anyway, not once did he respond. And I was thinking to myself, is it really that hard? Are you really so far up this food chain that you can’t respond to me? Like, anyway, thankfully, great service manager, great sales guy who are still there today, and every time I go in I say, I go and say hi to them. So that fixed, but you know why I wanted to highlight this is because you’ve had an experience, and somebody at the top of the food chain actually took the time to respond to you, which made me believe that no matter who you are, if you care about the one, you will respond.

– I think that’s really important in that anecdote is, that’s a real life experience where they’ve done a lot of work upfront to sell to you, never mind I don’t know how many millions they spend on advertising etcetera every year. Get you in through the sales process, get you buy the car, and then you’re really disappointed, and then it’s so much pain to just get something little fixed.

– Yes.

– So the process is suboptimal, it’s broken down. But yeah, so your point is though, I think that if you couldn’t have contacted the right person to get it fixed, it still would’ve been broken. You would’ve been an unhappy customer. You do like cars, you talk with cars with all your friends, you’re an influence to friends, you know, we all know that peer kind of recommendation. You would be bagging them out, but now you’re actually a bit of a fan because luckily you got to the right person.

– Correct.

– But, it was hard.

– It was hard.

– And so tying this back to the sales tip of the week, you’re really actually just highlighting that you’ve got to be responsive when people have feedback for you, good and bad.

– Correct.

– And respond quickly to it and fix the issue, because you’ve put in so much work upfront to get the sale, and then to destroy it all with actually suboptimal processes at the end. And yeah, my experience, I won’t say who, but it’s the CEO of a billion dollar company, who I contacted via email and they responded to me six minutes later.

– Correct.

– I have, I was so impressed. It took all, what did I say? It took all the heat out of my anger.

– Yes.

– And so that, in some ways, has just solved it. But if they just fobbed it off and didn’t respond, and things like that–

– That’s right. Now, it isn’t resolved, right? But at least–

– It’s not resolved, but I felt heard.

– You felt–

– And I know it’s been actioned by the CEO of a billion dollar company. I’m just like, wow. This is impressive, this is how it should be done.

– You know what I think? It’s not beyond any one of us, no matter what your position or place to actually understand and hear out people.

– And I’ll just say in case that CEO’s listening to the podcast, you can play it back to this date, 11th of December. Thank you if you’re listening.

– All right Craig, HubSpot extra of the week, content partitioning. Now, this was something that, I don’t actually, to be honest, I didn’t that a lot of people were using this. It’s something that was brought into Enterprise, people that manage multiple brands and want partition in between teams, etcetera. So it used to be on content and contacts, and now this is rolling across, right across the board.

– Look, it’s eventually getting to everything. The reason I’ve put it in, in HubSpot Extra is because we are getting increasing requests for this from clients. And not necessarily huge clients. We’ve got a client, they’re on Enterprise, but they’ve got a few different teams, and they just want to lock it down. They just want to be more careful I think in terms of who has access to what, contacts from pieces of content, assets, workflows, emails, etcetera. They’re just getting smarter about it and putting systems in place. So, we’re getting more questions about it and I think it’s good to see HubSpot actually rolling this out. I mean, it’s still not across everything, but it’s almost there.

– Yep.

– And the comments I’m making about this I think is for marketing managers to be looking at this. We’ll be actually be putting a lot more, I think thought into this for our clients, especially our Enterprise clients. It’ll actually end up being something in our HubSpot health check, our service as well, making sure content partition is understood and implemented where appropriate. Here’s what I’ll say about content partitioning. It’s still a bit difficult to understand the setup. Oh, I’ve got to go Users in Settings, and then set Teams, and then what do I put them as a child, team, and that, how does that work, and how does that flow up? You get your head around it eventually, but it’s not that intuitive. And the other side of it is actually assigning partitions or users to teams. I think it’s, and in fact, this is a general user interface comment. You know when you have to hover over things to see a More button to go, oh, that’s where I can do it.

– Yep.

– Or in some cases, you actually have to tick next to an asset–

– Yes.

– Screenshot in the show notes and emails. You’ve actually got to tick an email if you want to move it to another folder. So some things are just not obvious. And so one of the things we’ve got to do in HubSpot is often just tick things to see if it shows any other option you can do. Those things aside, I think this is something that’s gonna become bigger and better. The thing for people to remember is they go, oh how do I partition this content? You’ve got to remember, it’s actually about assigning it to users. So the approach you’ve got to think about is, oh I’ve got to assign this to users as opposed to I’m partitioning this content into something else, ’cause you would naturally think, oh, I’m putting this, I’m partitioning this content. No, you’re actually assigning it to users. And the final thing to remember is, you are locking down rather than opening up. ‘Cause if you come from a security background, you’re kind of like, everyone has access to nothing initially–

– That’s right.

– And then you open it up by giving them permission.

– Yes.

– With content permissioning, to-date, everything’s open to everyone and you actually have to go through locking things down. So for clients who often have to kind of say, oh okay, well we’ve actually got to go through everything and lock it down for you. So anyway, that’s the approach, I think there’ll be a lot more of that.

– That’s right, and so we’re not talking just to users, but users and teams, right?

– Well to teams basically.

– Exactly, so I think this is interesting because you will find that, and we’ve been doing this with some of our customers, is that, if you’ve got distributed teams, like example, you have this national sales team, and for example, businesses that they deal with are national, but have local contacts, but their company’s held in a, in let’s say a global space, proves a really interesting dynamic because people would say maybe have this contact that’s assigned to this team, but then they go, oh no, it actually belongs to somebody in another team. Once they assign it off, they won’t be able to see it, you know what I mean?

– Yeah, this is exactly right.

– So you get these scenarios. So what I wanted to highlight to people was that, yes, it’s great doing all of this stuff, and you’ve got to really understand how it all works, and you’ve also got to understand how that’s gonna affect usability on the user end in terms of the data and assets that have access to, and how they operate within that business, having understanding how the people in the business operate can make a massive difference.

– This is true, and this is a few other things, what you are highlighting is you’ve actually got to plan it out. Because you know another thing, you can’t really tell what, if you go through to an asset, say your ticket and you go, oh okay, that one I’ll assign it to a- oh, I wonder where it’s assigned currently.

– Correct.

– It’s actually not clear, ’cause you open the popup, all you’ve got is the option to assign it to something else.

– That’s exactly right.

– And then it overrides what it previously, like I don’t know what I’ve changed. I’ve got this new plan, I’ll just tick that I guess. So yeah, I think, what would I call it? It’s usable but it’s early stage, it’s not fully formed.

– All right Craig, onto HubSpot gotcha of the week.

– Just a quick one, had this from a client where they’ve got non-HubSpot forms being tracked. So this goes back to, remember they used to call them collected forms, ’cause you’d tick it on in Settings–

– That’s right.

– Collected forms. Previously, and we covered this in a show I think a year or two ago. Previously, you could turn off tracking on specific collected forms.

– Yes correct.

– Around the time they changed the name to non-HubSpot forms, they took that away. So the question that I got from our client was, oh, can I turn off tracking of one particular form?

– Yes.

– And in their case, they’ve got WordPress and the login page.

– Which always triggers.

– Is a form and it’s getting collected as a non-HubSpot form. They go, oh I just want to turn those off, we don’t want them coming as contacts in–

– Yes.

– And I’m like, well, unfortunately- well they’re using the HubSpot plugin on WordPress.

– Correct.

– So it just defaults–

– That’s right.

– The only workaround is, well, instead of having the WordPress plugin, use Google Tag Manager, insert it and on the trigger, do an exclusion on certain pages, by which time their eyes were glazing over, and you know, that wasn’t an option. So look, it’s a bit of a gotcha. If it really is problematic for you, chat to us and we’ll talk to you about Google Tag Manager being used.

– All right Craig, onto market of the week. And this is to do with Google My Business. And, the really, the importance of it. So even in 2020, I think this is gonna be really, really important.

– Look, the window on this is closing out, folks. Google My Business is still free. I can’t believe it. They’re gonna charge for it surely soon. But it’s the only free thing left on Google, that small and big businesses are kind of–

– Exactly.

– Equally able to do. If you’re a small business trying to rank well for terms, good luck, versus big brands. And if you don’t have the budget to advertise, you know, see ya later. But Google My Business, your listing is there, you can be a small business and still feature prominently in Google My Business through a few quick optimizations. So we’ve got a link to an article which just gives some tips. How many times have we mentioned this on the show? Folks, just get your Google My Business profiles up to date and keep them updated. At some point, this opportunity is gonna close down.

– Right. So I wanted to highlight some of the things. This is a really good article. It says how to level up from Google My Business apprentice to being a Google My Business master. One of the things it said, is just really being on top of it. Like, looking at it, updating it daily. I was like, oh, okay. And you know what? That’s the reality. If you’re in a business, and especially one that’s got a physical location, it’s a really good way to get in front of people, from putting a post, putting up specials, making sure your times updated as you go into the new year and there are holidays coming up. You know, what are those holidays, how does it affect you? Because there’s nothing worse, and this has happened to me, looking into, like you’re on a weekend or a public holiday, you’re looking to go somewhere to have a coffee or to have, you know, take the family out for something, and then it says, oh yeah, it’s open. You get there and it’s closed, you’re like, you’re really peeved, you know what I mean? So, just think about that. If you’re closed, mark yourself as closed. And make that’s happen, and make sure it’s updated across not just your local listing, but even on your website. Like have a note on there. You could even implement a popup form saying that you’re actually closed on this particular day, and you’ll be back on this other day etcetera. So there are things that you can do really easily to make sure people don’t get peeved off.

– Yeah, that’s good, and that’s for the daily updates. I don’t know if we do things daily, but we definitely do it weekly for clients. In marketing, we often talk about five dollar tasks, $50 tasks, and $500 tasks. Now, as an agency senior person, I should be doing $500 tasks.

– Yes.

– So I shouldn’t be doing small five dollar tasks. Updating Google My Business is a five dollar task. You know why? You can just, it’s a simple process. You get the most junior person on your team to do it. And why am I mentioning five dollar tasks? Because with a five dollar task, the ROI on this is incredible. We do, I think we do this for just about every client. We just, it’s standard, tick a box, every client, we update their Google My Business profiles for them weekly, right? Because the impact is so, the return on that–

– That’s right, exactly.

– Five dollar task investment is so strong. So folks, please. Just–

– Even for your SEO, Craig.

– Get a process.

– All right, I think we’ll do another episode just about that later on this.

– We could, yeah you’re right. We could do a whole Google My Business episode. You know what? I’d love the HubSpot Social tool to include support for Google My Business posting.

– Yes.

– It doesn’t. Some of the other social tools do.

– That’s right. All right Craig, onto our Insight of the Week. Should you stop showing ads to customers?

– I was on Twitter the other day and saw someone complaining. They’re Mailchimp power user and they were complaining that they were getting advertising from Mailchimp. Kind of complaining about. Oh, surely Mailchimp knows I’m a customer. I have eight different accounts with them. Why are they showing me ads? Right? As if, how stupid Mailchimp are. And I thought about, I was thinking, well actually, there could be a lesson here. Maybe they’re totally, Mailchimp’s just blasts it and forget they’re not doing it right. And so the first comment is to marketing managers listening to this, just be mindful of this kind of stuff. Should you be identifying customers and excluding them from mail ’cause- Not from mail, from marketing and from advertising, because it could be wasteful, and it could be pissing them off as in this case. Then I was thinking further, I was like well, two things. One is, I think Mailchimp’s pretty smart. I actually wonder if they’ve done a test and measure. They know who customers are, they’ve probably segmented them out, and they’ve perhaps looked at, if we advertise to customers, does that improve retention or make them use more features, or they create more accounts? They might’ve, they might not.

– You’re quite right.

– But they might. So the second take away is, well, test and measure folks, because, just ’cause they’re a customer, it might actually be worth advertising to them. Quite often brand reinforcement and there’s a kind of brand affinity and loyalty. Oh, they advertise, and perhaps you’re actually showing new features.

– Exactly.

– If they’re advertising which you might not have realized. And then the other thing I was thinking of, this person was pretty savvy. So they know about tracking and getting targeted and all that.

– Yes.

– And I’m like, I bet that person’s like me and has an ad blocker and blocks half the tracking pixels. So even if they wanted to–

– That’s right!

– Mailchimp couldn’t exclude them. So it’s like, I don’t know the, what the, I don’t know what the answer is in this case. Were just a few thoughts there around, I think the takeaway is, have a strategy or an assumption test and measure.

– I couldn’t agree more, Craig, and I was saying, I’ve been doing something similar for another customer of ours recently, where they have specials that they sell to dealers and to end users, and because a lot of the people that they sell to a, in government or bigger businesses etcetera, email deliverability isn’t that great when it comes to email marketing. So we kind of use this strategy of doing the email marketing, but also targeting people on Facebook and on Google with that same deal there is in special, and they should check it out. And being customers, ’cause sometimes they might not actually see it in their emails. So that was the strategy behind that.

– That’s a really good strategy. Sort of another one is, especially in the email space, like Mailchimp, and there’s so many providers of that space, they’re probably getting targeted by competitors–

– Exactly.

– So you may as well keep your brand in front of them as well, so people churn between platforms pretty quick. They’re pretty quick to jump ship, so maybe just keeping your brand in front of them, even if they are a customer, at least retains them.

– All right Craig, Throwback of the Week.

– I think it’s fun to look back 12 months ago and see what HubSpot was promoting as new. And you know what they were promoting as new 12 months ago?

– The content strategy tool.

– What is this content strategy tool yet you talk of? It’s now called the SEO tool.

– That’s right, and you know what? I actually wonder what the usage of that tool is to be honest, 12 months on. Because I know for a fact, I’ve been working with customers to try and implement that, and it’s been a hard work.

– You know what? It is a good tool. We’ve been using it with a client recently. It’s actually quite good, but it’s not compelling. And it’s hard to set up, and we had to explain it to them, and then we were showing them. They’re like, what’s all this branching, and what’s going on? And how do I report on it? And of course we integrated Google Search Console, the pulling down, they’re like, oh, it’s not showing. Oh okay, we’ve got to put in specific columns. They’re like, there’s something, well not intuitive about it, the SEO tool, and it needs training. It needs–

– It does, it definitely needs training and it does need people to guide you through it. I think, yeah you’re right. It does need guidance. People need to be on the same page. Now Craig, the Read of the Week is, something to do with exploding topics.

– I think Brian Dean from Backlinko might’ve created a site.

– I know, I just saw this. I was like, this is really nicely done.

– Yeah, and keep in mind folks, this is, we’re recording this in December. It just came out a week or two ago. It’s probably old news by the time you’re listening to this. But it’s just a, what would we call it? A window into Google Trends, where he’s just pulled out some, well he calls them exploding topics. Google Trends, trends that are taking off, and wanted to see how they fit. Worth a view.

– Definitely worth a look. All right Craig, the Quote of the Week?

– You’ve got a good one here.

– Your success and happiness lies in you. Resolve to keep happy, and your joy, and you shall form an invincible host against difficulties. And that’s from Helen Keller. Now Craig, you’ve got a bonus as well.

– The quote is, test and measure. And that’s from Two Turkeys.

– Well users, I hope you’ve had a, I hope you’ve had a good holiday and you’ve enjoyed listening to HubShots. We’d love you to leave us a review. I’d love you, if you could share it with somebody on your team, that would be fantastic. And, by all means, please you know, fill out a contact form, message us via Instagram or LinkedIn, however, however you want to get in touch with us, we love hearing from you guys. And we hope, here’s to a great 2020. Until later Craig.

– Catch you later Ian.

– Thank you for listening to this episode of HubShots. For show notes, resources, HubSpot news, including practical strategies you can implement, visit us at HubShots.com

Episode 185

Episode 185: HubSpot Popup Form targeting gets awesomer

Welcome to HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

This episode we chat about the new targeting features in popup forms, plus we remember Lil BUB.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/185-hubspot-popup-form-targeting-gets-awesomer/

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD3Uo4X-IxPJLE8ygPDQhNQ

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Recorded: Tuesday 05 December 2019 | Published: Friday 10 January 2020

Shot 1: Growth Thought of the Week

Remembering Lil BUB – the world’s most magical cat


Sadly Lil BUB passed away this week



lilbub 1

There’s a farewell video here:


We first mentioned Lil BUB back in episode 51 in 2016:


We’ll miss you Lil BUB – thank you for all the good you did in the world, including raising more than $700K for animals in need.

Even the New York Times gave her an obit:


It’s been a sad year:

Boo, the world’s cutest dog died in January, aged 12

Grumpy Cat died in May, aged 7

Lil Bub dies in December, aged 8

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

HubSpot December updates (but I think they meant November):


From which we learned about the following most awesome of updates:

Behavioural targeting on Popup Forms

New option in Popup Form targeting:


hubspot popup forms targeting 1

Very powerful – and means you can improve the visitor experience by only showing relevant popups.

hubspot popup forms targeting

Some examples:

  • Build a ‘funnel’ of popups on pages
  • Show TOFU popup to visitors, and then hide when they’ve filled it out
  • Show MOFU popup to people have filled out the TOFU popup, etc
  • Target based on SEO topics (links to the SEO tool)
  • Target based on number of sessions eg repeat visitors might see a special offer, or stop displaying forms to people who are regular visitors

For all the options you need Marketing Pro or Enterprise. But Starter still includes the Segmented Lists option.

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Comments on notes, calls and meetings in CRM

hubspot comments

Priority on Tasks

hubspot task priorities

Shot 4: HubSpot Extra of the Week

Using Lists to Fix Workflow issues


Looking ahead to 2020

Looking forward to better attribution reporting, that incorporates offline and non-online activities

Shot 5: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

A re-gotcha reminder about the Ads Add-on.

Ticking those boxes TURNS OFF campaigns

They DO NOT change the reporting summary at the top

hubspot ads addoon gotcha

Shot 6: Marketing Tip of the Week

An interesting title – The Best Time to Send an Email (Research-Backed)!


In general, the highest click-to-open rates are 10 AM, at 21%, 1 PM, at 22.5%, and have seen a spike at near 6 PM. The data reflects when most audiences begin or conclude their day and have the most time to check their emails.

Our question, these numbers are from GetResponse, an email marketing tool that combed its data to compile a report of email marketing benchmarks. They analyzed 4 billion emails from 1,000 active senders.  Why did HubSpot not use the data from their own email marketing system?

Shot 7: Insight of the Week

Is advertising the new dot com bubble


An interesting article on the need to test whether advertising is actually working for you.

General action item: Test and Measure, but test the right things:


Shot 8: HubSpot Throwback of the Week

Here’s what HubSpot was announcing 12 months ago:



Shot 9: Resource of the Week

Domino Chain Reaction


Shot 10: Quote of the Week

“We should be building great things that don’t exist.” – Larry Page

Shot 11: Bonus Links of the Week



Using Goals in Custom Reports


Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.
Episode 185: HubSpot Popup Form targeting gets awesomer

– Hi everyone, welcome to “HubShots” episode 185. In this episode we chat about the new targeting features in popup forms that we love. Plus we rib a little bub. You’re listening to Asia-Pacific’s number one HubSpot focused podcast, where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks and features, and strategies for growing your sales and marketing results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found, and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. How are you, Craig?

– Well, I’m good and I’m sad.

– I know.

– So I’m really happy about what we’re gonna talk about in HubSpot popup forms in a minute, but I’m also really sad, and this is nothing to do with marketing or HubSpot. As you know, I basically am a sucker for the cute little cats and puppies on Instagram.

– You are.

– And so we’ve talked about Lil BUB, who’s this, well, was this such a cute little cat. We actually chatted about it on the show, way back, a couple years ago.

– We have, you introduced me to Lil BUB.

– To Lil BUB and I’ve been following her on Instagram. Anyway, she passed away on Sunday morning, and I’m really sad about this, and that’s kinda weird. I’m a grown man, and I’m sad about some little cute cat on the other side of the world that I’ve never met but have kind of got to know through Instagram. So it’s been a sad week–

– And it’s been a sad year, you know, because Boo, the world’s,

– You’ve lost a few.

– Well, the world’s cutest dog, it was just an adorable Pomeranian.

– Yes.

– He passed away in January, and Grumpy Cat of course passed away in May. And Now Lil BUB has passed away in December. It’s been a tough year, so. Lots to be thankful for though, because Lil BUB contributed, and like the impact that she had on the world. She raised more than $700,000 for animals in special needs and things like that. It’s just been amazing.

– Which you think is pretty phenomenal for Lil BUB. But I’m just amazed, like, there not be many people on this planet that would raise that much money to help others so, yeah look, that figure surprised me. So, you know what this highlights to me, Craig, is the impact you can have no matter how big or small. Everybody has the ability to have an impact. And we’ve got the tools in front of us, right? It’s how we choose to use it, and Lil BUB and her owner used the tools that they had. Even what sometimes I would think would seem like a very dire situation. When you look at her and you think, “My goodness, how could this happen, or how could this be?” She used what she had and her owner, smart guy, used what he had to spread the message and make a difference to other animals. So, you know, we have a lot to learn from that. So, Lil BUB, rest in peace, I say. All right Craig, on to happier things, talk to us about marketing feature of the week.

– The only thing that I don’t like is when they changed the name laid forms to pop-up forms, which of course is a much better name, we all know that now, but laid forms, we always use to say, “What’s the secret, “what’s the best marketing interest, “get laid forms going, just get pop-up forms.”

– Well, it still is today

– It still is today. It’s pop-up forms, all the way. And the reason I didn’t like the name changed to pop-up forms is because I had pop-ups so I never used the pop-up in pop-up forms, I always used the slide ins.

– Yes, great.

– And I never used exit intent and I know study after study says that they convert so well and things like that but I just hate them myself so I don’t wanna inflict them on others but slide ins I quite like. And so, whenever I talk about pop-up forms I’m only thinking of slide ins, but what we’re gonna chat about applies to all forms of the pop-up forms. But this is extra targeting, and this is so good.

– You know what blew me away? The specificity of the targeting.

– Well, let’s explain what it is. So, previously you could target it’s gonna appear on this page but not this page. You could do it on URL’s, and I think Perimeters and a few other things but now, you can do it on, well, lists, segmented lists. So, I’ll give you the most obvious example. You show up form for an able or sign up offer, content offer. If they fill out the form, stop showing them the pop-up. Right, ’cause there’s nothing more inefficient than going back and having the same offer shown to you over and over again when you filled it out. And that’s a bad user experience, so this extra set of targeting, which you’re gonna go through some of the more complex ones that can be implemented but even the simplest one, segmented lists actually gives you a lot of power. And in fact, you can start creating funnels, really. You can have a top of the funnel offer–

– Exactly.

– And if they fill out that form, oh don’t show that pop-up and in fact, if they have filled it out, show this next pop-up, which is the middle of the funnel. Ah, you know the funnels dead, by the way.

– It is, Craig.

– So, whatever the funnels– anyway you can just have funnels of pop-up offers and it’s gonna be such a better user experience and what are some of the other targeting options you’re looking at?

– Okay, so look, let’s say in starter and possibly free you will get two options, which is to do it by a segmented list, or visitor, if the visitor is a contact or is unknown, okay. Now, when you go beyond that. So, you got to have marketing professional enterprise, here are the things that you can segment, or you can behave, you can segment by diverse type. Browse a language, country, so they click a particular CTA, day since they last visited, have they viewed a particular form, what their session count is, pages visited, referral URL, SEO topic, and SEO topic history. Like, wow, anyway so those are all the options. But, let’s talk about what you might want to do.

– You know, one of the key things could be the number of sessions they’ve had, so how many times have they come back? So you might actually figure out that you might figure out based on the number of times they come back if a particular offer hasn’t worked, you could actually now give them another offer based on their number of visits.

– Didn’t I have form views as well?

– Yes, correct.

– If you show a form a certain number of times and they still haven’t converted, turn that one off.

– You know the one I was thinking on session, number session counts, I would reward my loyal visitors. I’d almost like say, “If you visit my site, “more than a 100 times, I will not show you any pop-ups, “I will not show you any forms, “I will respect that you are a loyal reader “and I’ll not try to, you know, put you in the form.” Things like that I think would be good. But also, equally, you could say well, “If you visit more than a 100 times you’re very loyal, “I’m gonna give you a special offer that only you get.” For my loyal viewers and things like that.

– Yeah, just phenomenal.

– There’s so much flexibility here. I am real excited about this. I think this is, not only is it gonna increase conversion rates for people that use it well. But it’s actually just gonna make it a better user experience. Because, I’ll give you the most common one whenever I go to the HubSpot blog, exit intent, sign up for the blog. I mean, I’ve signed up for it, why do you keep showing me, so hopefully–

– Stop that from happening.

– Yeah, hopefully they have implemented on their own blog, I’m sure they will. But, I was thinking you know what the only thing that’s missing really in HubSpot in terms of pop-ups, we’ve chatted about this before. I would like an option to do a pop-up form that’s not a form, it’s almost like a pop-up CTA. I’d like to slide CTAs in the don’t necessarily have a form but they could just be a banner that highlights something with maybe a link. Click through to view something. Something interesting because I just love the slide in and the other thing I’d like is the slide in an option to hide it again automatically after 30 seconds or a certain time, it’s kind of like, yep show it. They haven’t responded–

– Haven’t done anything.

– Just slide it out of the way, yeah. So, it’s getting very, very–

– Sophisticated

– sophisticated. So, I’m really excited about it, this is the feature of the week. And I’ve already shared this, I shared with our team straight on just like, team, get on to this. ‘Cause this idea of just removing that aggravation for people we’re rolling this out to all our clients this’ll be just almost in the checklist for every site. This’ll just be it.

– I think you get some major quick wins out of this, Craig. If you actually have a strategy on how to use the forms effectively based on what people are doing and where they’re at.

– Thank you HubSpot.

– All right, Craig under has put sales pitch of the week. Now you can put comments on notes, calls, and meetings in CRM. So, I think this is really cool it’s the little things that add up to big things over time and it’s almost like we should have an episode called, ‘Increments’ with incremental changes. This is another one, so we are finding in our team that we are tending to put more stuff in HubSpot and between the team just tagging each other to note it especially around deals but also, did I mention to you how Carly is using deals. Talk to me about this normally, you know, ideal stage, what do you call it, pipe line stages.

– Yes.

– They finish it either closed won or closed lost.

– Yes, yep.

– She’s added some stages at the end after they’ve won there’s like a stage that is now have access to the site and invoice has been page it’s around like account management. So she has some extra steps now that count as actually close won stages, so there’s multiple. But she’s actually using her board view to go right, we’ve got his client, the deal was won, but now we know they’ve been invoiced and that we have access to their site so then, ’cause she account managing, she you know, right, then the project can start so that, she’s managed that from HubSpot. I’m like, “Wow, that’s really cool.” And so, you can see why commenting and tagging is that’s a natural for it, by the way, I’d love to see surely we have some others thinking of this in the future, where deals will naturally extend to a project.

– Yes.

– It’s almost that’s the next step in a way to track it. It’s the most ideal extensions. So anyway, I’ve totally gone off track but that’s a good use case where we’re finding this tagging and commenting on things is really useful.

– Right, so there we go. We’ve got that, and we’ve got another one where they’ve got priority on task now. And when you look in the priority queue it’s either no priority or high priority, Craig. There’s nothing in between, which is rather interesting. It’s a interesting design decision, do you reckon they initially had high, medium, low. And then someone said, “That’s too confusing, “it’s just high, or it’s not high.” I think that’s probably a good call with that, if that’s the case.

– Seems like an odd call, but it’s a good one. All right, HubSpot extra of the week. Craig, using lists to fix work flow issues.

– We might expand on this in a future episode but I think it’s a god blog post on the HubSpot blog just highlighting a few, first thing the issues that sometimes happen in work flows, people go into work flows, they don’t receive e-mails. They go into work flows, ah they get pushed out. You can use lists to kinda just report across that and what’s happened, and things like that. So check out that blog posts for a few examples and again, a reminder of just how awesome work flows are yet also, the power can be complex and so sometimes–

– That’s right.

– Digging into what’s gone wrong or expected can be complex but lists are part of the solution.

– That’s right, I’ve had one of those this week, which I got to the bottom of, it took me me a little bit of time.

– Ah, and how did you get to the bottom of it?

– Looking at the word for history and actually it was a timing issue because people entering a work flow and being held in a delay while another work for execute.

– Were these nested work flows, were they–

– No, they weren’t nested, so. It was an interesting scenario, so I had to track it back. And it’s all because of a sequence of events the user took that I didn’t think would happen.

– Why can’t the users just do what we want? Just go down the straight path of no deviations, right?

– But you know what, that was good. Taught us something else. All right, Craig onto the what gotcha of the week. And this is to do with ads, add-on within HubSpot.

– Yeah, so this is a reminder, this has been a gotcha of the week before.

– It has.

– I can’t remember it might have been 20 episodes ago, but when using ads add-on and you go and you look at your campaigns in your running so I had this yesterday with a client, its happened again. So when you’re looking at all the campaigns that are running you kinda see across the top a summary and almost and then you see a list of campaigns. What I’m finding, and I think this is intuitive, this is what you expect, is people click that tick box that’s that slider that tick it on or off, expecting that to be reflected in the totals above. So, all those campaigns, oh no, no, no, I’ll just hide that one from the reporting list. So they tick it off and quite often all you’re showing is the active campaigns.

– Correct.

– So your viewers only filtered on active figure, oh yeah turn that one off and it disappears out of view, and you go, “Oh, hang on, numbers didn’t update, “oh, that’s weird, anyway go on your merry way.” No, that tick box–

– You just turned off your campaign.

– It’s turned off the campaign. I think it’s a really bad UI–

– Yes.

– Choice.

– Correct.

– Because people are shocked when I go, “No, you’ve”–

– And it’s not clearly marked.

– It’s not clear, and you go, “All right, you’ve turned off the campaign, I had no idea.” Because then you don’t see the campaign, it doesn’t even stick around to show that it’s turned off, because by default as I’ve said you’re filtering just on active campaign, it’s like, wow, that’s a gotcha, so then people are going, “Hang on, there’s campaigns, “I never turned this on.”

– Well, you know what was interesting I had a customer today tell me their filter view was everything that was active and what’s the other status?

– Where you can be paused, or you can be in draft.

– Yeah, it must have been paused, right? So that I had– that’s right, they were paused because I paused it because the issue with some of the tracking that someone had done. Anyway, they said, “Ah, look I can see this issue here, “can I just delete this out of here?” I’m like, “No, you can’t delete anything.” I said, “But change the status at the top “to only see what’s active and “you’ll just see what’s running.” And they’re like, “Ah, yeah, okay that’s so much better.” So, you know, I can just see confusion on here. Like when people go, “I don’t wanna see that.” And they think, oh yeah, I’ll just push that, I’ll just toggle that switch, and away we go.

– I actually think they’re gonna have, because they’re increasingly putting more ad management features into the ads add-on, you know, I think that relates fun for LinkedIn lead ads that you can create from HubSpot now. And I’m like, well HubSpot must have the telemetry that says people are using it for that. But, we tell all our clients don’t use the ads add-on for managing and creating ads, only do it for reporting. Because most of our clients are being corporate, so we’re like, no, do that on the actual platforms themselves but then just use HubSpot because the reporting. When that’s their mindset, it’s like, wow, and they’re only doing it for point, that’s when the interface gets in the way, it’s like, ah, if it’s just for reporting. So, it’s hard, I think HubSpots gotta do some more work on these interface to be really clear about what’s management versus just reporting.

– Yeah, that’s right, because when you think about what we have in Google, for example, and we’re having Facebook, like it’s really clear, like, it looks like a pause button and it looks like a green, like there is nothing where this just looks like I’m toggling something on and off which could be, I’m trying to get this out of my view. And that’s how it happens. Here’s a little second gotcha. I had a customer as we were doing setup, I said, “Oh, why don’t you just connect your Facebook “account in with, into HubSpot.” So they did that, anyway I proceeded to create, after I left their office, I proceeded to create a lead ad and I couldn’t, it was grayed out. So, the person that connects the Facebook ad account is the only person that can create a Facebook lead ad from within HubSpot, did you know that?

– I didn’t know that, however, I’ve run into issues with lead ads before because I don’t know if it’s still with us, but you couldn’t share them even on the Facebook platform. So you’d create it, actually now I’m thinking of LinkedIn. You’d create it but then anyone else that had access to the ad account they couldn’t And I’m like, what are lead forms. And the other problem I guess with Facebook, I don’t know if they’ve overcome this yet, you can’t edit your existing lead forms.

– That’s right, you can’t do that.

– And I can understand why they do it. ‘Cause maybe changing fields effects a whole bunch of things and the measurement and stuff like that. But they’re very rigid, so I suspect that something like that that flows through to permissions as well.

– Yeah, I suspect that like it’s obviously very fine a user that’s connected the account so like, for example, if I’ve connect in then I ask you to create the lead ad, you won’t be able to. It’s just grayed out.

– I’m gonna guess that that’s a Facebook limitation, not a HubSpot limitation.

– Marketing tip of the week, Craig. And this is a blog post from HubSpot. And what caught my attention was I had people ask me this week, “What’s a good time to send an e-mail?” Right. Now we have spoken about this over time. We’ve looked at different recent portion to put out. Anyway, one popped up in a HubSpot blog post that said, you know, here’s what we found about the best time to send e-mails, so I clicked it. And here was the title, “The best time to send an e-mail” and in parenthesis it says, “researched based” So I thought okay, that’s really interesting. Let’s read more about this. And so I’m gonna now share what they found. And then I’ll ask, pose a question about asking you why do you think this is the case. It said in general the highest quick to open rates are 10 a.m. at 21%, 1 p.m. at 22.5%, and have seen a spike at 6 p.m. The data reflects when most audiences begin, or conclude their day and have the most time to check their e-mails. Now one question to me here, said these numbers are from GetResponse, which is an e-mail marketing tool that has combined its diehard compile of report of e-mail marketing benchmarks. They analyzed four billion e-mails from 1,000 active senders. You know what, this raised a red flag to me. I went, hang on a second, that’s a lot of e-mails from a 1,000 senders, right. And then I thought, hang on, why did HubSpot not use the data from their own e-mail marketing system to create this report, or this research.

– Well, this is very weird, yeah first of all, four billion e-mails from a 1,000 senders. I think there’s some zeros missing somewhere.

– Yes.

– I have to check, but if they sent four billion e-mails from a million senders, and I’m like okay, they are probably numbers, let’s assume that’s a typo.

– Yes.

– But it’s very weird. But your question is, why are they using GetResponse starter then their own, I’m like, yeah what is going on here?

– Yeah, like.

– So, not that that means that the results or the findings aren’t relevant or useful. We should definitely but, I’m generally intrigued. Why are they using GetResponse starter, I’d love to know.

– Yeah, so here I am really perplexed, anyway.

– I don’t think I have a solution. You’ll remain perplexed as am I. But those times are interesting, aren’t they?

– They are interesting. Like the quick to open rate, so those just in case this ones thinking the highest is 21%, that’s not open rate, that’s click to open rate.

– Correct.

– So, did they actually mention what the open rates were as well, I’m assuming there are–

– Yes, they did.

– much higher than that.

– So, okay I’ll tell ya, so they got the open, they actually got open rates from something that campaign monitor had collected. So, now we’re talking a different e-mail marketing system.

– What is going on?

– And I’ll read this to you. So, it says the best data send through an e-mail and campaign monitor that collected data from millions of e-mails used on their service. They put together the best days to that pertains to data collection. All right, the best day for the highest e-mail open rates at 18.6% is Thursday.

– Well look, the other thing that I wanna mention, is take all of this with a grain of salt to your own test and measure. We’ve chat about this on the show before because I think take these as a guide for maybe where you start your testing.

– Sorry.

– But, always just, so how do you try and, there are so many variables. For example, if you’ve got a terrible subject line, doesn’t matter when you send it.

– Oh yeah, exactly.

– Right? You got a great subject line, oh, it probably will get opened, if it’s relevant, we’ve always talked about relevance. If it’s relevant, people will open it and look forward to it, and read it. If it’s not, they won’t. So it doesn’t matter when you send it, really. So this is why I’m kinda dubious. And I think test and measure in your own company. You might take benchmarks across an industry, it’s just a bit of a guide to start. But you gotta test this yourself.

– You’re absolutely right there, Craig. I remember when we use to deal with different businesses and a lot of the businesses that were, that we use to send e-mail marketing to, they were dealing with trainings. And so, we’d often send it specifically at times when they had their breaks because we discovered that that’s the time that they’re really open to, you know, they’re eating something, or smoking something–

– That’s a great insight, yeah.

– so, that’s when we targeted them, right?

– Right.

– Now if you’d told me that and said ah, no, we should send it at the first, you know, on a Thursday at this time, you might be like, why?

– You know the other thing that this doesn’t account for? High intent.

– Yes.

– Because I would like to see this go through what actually, what were the clicks, or what were the opens and then the clicks and then then form submits that then went into a deal that ended up in revenue. We’ve discussed this before, I’ve gotta hunch that a lot of that starts on a Sunday evening. People, they’re like, ah, they’re getting ready for the week so you prime them with something, like, ah yeah, I’ve got that. Yeah, I’ll fill that in ’cause I’m gonna chat with them this week. But, the open rate might be low, and the quick rate might be low, but the intent rate might be high. How do you test for that?

– Well, you’ve gotta have huge data sets. And apparently you’ve gotta get it out on the e-mail platforms there.

– So there we go, I don’t know if that’s provided you any insights but let’s talk about that. All right Craig, onto our insights of the week. He’s advertising the new dot com babble.

– Speaking of test and measure, this is a good segue because this is an article in the correspondent and you should go and read this because what they’re looking at is, is it worth paying for advertising, especially on things like your brand. And this article is good and bad. It’s good because it raises the question as well, you’ve got a test, but now are you testing the right things? And so it gives this great example of someone was testing whether you use coupons, this was an offline test but it relates to online notice that, a pizza shop are now testing whether coupons would drive more sales. And so this is a bit of one of the apocryphal stories I don’t know if it’s true or probably has some grain of truth but the three guys go out and they’re handing out their voucher coupons, it’s like, ah wow, one of these guys is really like, he’s really successful. Who was he targeting, where was he getting them, right? ‘Cause the rate of people using that coupon was really high. Anyway, so if you didn’t do the analysis, you go, “Right, well, that persons a star, “or that offer was really good.” Anyway, they asked and I said, “Ah, what have you been doing?” and he says, “Ah, I just stand in the line “in the pizza store and give them “while they’re queuing their order.” Right. So you could see the point, it’s like, well, obviously they were gonna buy it anyway, right. And so, take that simple example which may or may not be true, and apply it to your test. So, what the article raises is well, if people didn’t have the intent to buy–

– Yes.

– Did showing them an ad really reach them or are we just burning money ’cause they were gonna buy it anyway. So, obviously it’s a lot more complex. People have multiple touches and all that kind of thing. This article talks about that. So then, you’ve gotta take that and try to work out well, are we just re-targeting people that were gonna buy, what is it all they have campaigns, all those things, so, I don’t have answers for you ’cause it’s complex but the action item is to think about this, to start thinking, test and measure. Now, that’s the good part of the article. The bad part of the article is some of the conclusions they arrive at are based on studies and testing from 2012.

– Oh wow.

– Which is like, that’s an eternity ago in online advertising, so they’re like anybody who did this study and they found eBay didn’t wanna beat on their brand, you know, in Google you beat on your brand. And I think by now everyone knows they probably should. But five years ago, they’re like, ah, should we be beating on our brand? And so they stopped and all that went organic. So they’re like, ah, we don’t need to beat on our brand. Now, that was a great result for then. But of course, you should keep testing that because we know the Google results are not as simple as they were then. So when they throw in those kind of findings, you know, six years later or whatever, seven years later, and use it drive a conclusion that perhaps advertising is a waste of money, that’s where I fall down, so go onto this article thoughtfully. The action item I’m gonna take away is to test and measure as we always say.

– I mean, it is true, like I shared a search result I got the other day with you, and I wasn’t even looking for this I search for, I was looking at a particular fitness tracker and I just, I was trying to recall who I, I had it in a podcast I think somebody interviewed this particular person. They spoke about how they managed their life, and the things that they do to keep themselves at optimal level, right? So I thought, ah, I just wanna check this out. Anyway, so I was racking my brain to figure out, and so I just thought maybe one of the podcast I listen to I typed in that persons name with fitness tracker after it. And the result I got back I was like, I have never seen this before. Which was basically a video and had all the major key points in that video in like a timeline that you could kinda sift your way through. And then just had videos below. There was no text result or ad anywhere on that but I could see on the page initially, right? And I was blown away, so I took a screenshot and sent it to you, Craig. So, it just shows to me that what we know about search results has totally changed in what we see happen on a device when people are browsing. So there you have it, I think, just test and measure and be aware of what’s going on. Now Craig, you’ve gotta throwback of the week.

– I thought this would be interesting, also along this align of increments. Let’s throwback each week and say, what was HubSpot announcing 12 months ago. And you know what they were announcing 12 months ago?

– Content partitioning?

– Content partitioning. It was this new thing that they’re rolling out.

– Yes.

– It’s raw and acute today and it’s all across the platform and still getting better, so content partitioning, we’re all hanging out for it. And I think this came just on the hills of inbound at the times.

– It was, correct. All right, results of the week, Craig. And this is something I discovered. Somebody showed this to me this week. It’s a YouTube video so I recommend people watch it.

– We’ll probably share the link.

– Were you watching it ad free?

– Well, it was ad free when I started. It’s called the domino chain reaction. Yeah, it just blew my mind away how from a domino that was probably like five millimeters high, they knocked over a domino that was I think over a meter and a bit higher and so you just look at the scale of this tiny they used tweezers I think to put it on the ground.

– It just blew me away.

– So, you need to just explain the setup. The point is, when you have a row of domino’s they all knock each other over but you can increase each time the size of the domino. So increase it by 50% each time and you’ll and I think in the video showed there was like 13 steps from this tiny little thing that he started with tweezers, in and knocking over a meter tall one.

– It was quite amazing.

– And then when you get to 29 you can knock over the Empire State Building, apparently.

– Just I was, it blew me away to show you the power of something so small can gain momentum and do something so big.

– Good luck, Lil BUB.

– There you go. All right, quote of the week, Craig. And this is from Larry Page, “We should be building great things that don’t exist.”

– Now why have you chosen a Larry Page quote for today?

– Well, I chose a Larry Page quote, it was gonna be Larry or Sergey because they just stepped down from the head of Alphabet and they’ve let Sundar Pichai take over, so I thought that was a pretty momentous occasion and that’s what, here we are. Anything else, Craig?

– I think that’s it. We’d love you to leave us a review on Apple podcast and anyway you listen to this podcast. And we always love it when people e-mail us and actually say that they’ve learned something or just to say hi, and as we head towards the end of this year, we wanna thank you. Thank everybody for listening, being a part of the journey and supporting us over the last four years, and we hope you have a great holiday.

– Well Craig, until next time.

– Catch you later, Ian. Hey there, thanks for listening to this episode of HubShots for show notes and the latest topics about news and tips please visit us at hubshots.com

Episode 184

Episode 184: HubSpot Increments

Welcome to HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

This episode we chat about a bunch of incremental HubSpot and marketing updates. And then discuss how incremental updates over time amount to massive change.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/184-hubspot-increments/

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD3Uo4X-IxPJLE8ygPDQhNQ

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Recorded: Wednesday 20 November 2019 | Published: Friday 3 January 2020

Shot 1: Growth Thought of the Week

HubSpot HealthCheck

Has your HubSpot Portal got messy?

Brought to you by our HubSpot HealthCheck:


HubSpot Support as a guide

How we’ll know if HubSpot is gearing up to get acquired (eg by Google) – their investment in Support will drop off…

HubSpot Support is sooooo good. It would cost them a fortune to keep people trained so well. When they start cutting back on support to save $ and make their financials more attractive, we’ll know they are getting ready to be acquired.

But even worse, if they do get acquired, I hope their acquirer doesn’t look to slash costs and degrade the quality of the support (eg have you ever tried to contact Google Support? It’s very frustrating!)

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Image optimisation settings in Pro and Enterprise


hubspot image optimisation

Discovered via:


Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Product folders


Product Folders

Settings 17

Folders! The improvement that HubSpot is so proud of.

Here is some training you can do to Improve Sales Transparency with Quotes

Shot 4: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

Ads add-on with Marketing Starter doesn’t show ROI

Ads   HubSpot 4

And doesn’t even show Customers

Ads   HubSpot 5

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week


A good reminder that you can use workflows to set properties on contact records, that could then add them to Active (Smart) lists that are then sync to audiences in Facebook and LinkedIn

Shot 6: Insight of the Week

Incremental change versus Massive change

It’s mostly a matter of timeframe

Craig got a new phone this week – upgrading from an iPhone SE to an iPhone 11 Pro

The change ‘appears’ to be massive, but of course if he’d just upgraded each year it would have seemed incremental.

Consider how impressed you’d be with HubSpot if the last time you used it was a few years ago, and then you used it again today.

Takeaway: Consider how your marketing has changed over the last few years. It may seem incremental to you, but considered over a larger timeframe you’ve probably achieved a massive change.

Shot 7: HubSpot Extra of the Week

Insight into the HubSpot Reporting Platform evolution


Speaking of incremental change – amazing to think that the team is only 3 years old – look how much they have achieved.

Wonderful post by Chelsea Bathurst:


Shot 8: YouTube of the Week



Shot 9: Quote of the Week

“Marketing is about values”

  • Steve Jobs

Shot 10: Bonus Thingies of the Week

When HubSpot imports WordPress posts via XML, it sets the User who created the post as ‘Hubspot System’ with a little ‘s’ in HubSpot:

hubspot imported post author

WSJ article about Google that was widely criticised in the SEO community:


Paying for privacy and less distractions:


Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.
Episode 184: HubSpot Increments

– Hi, everyone. Welcome to HubShots, episode 184. In this episode, we chat about a bunch of incremental HubSpot and marketing updates, and then discuss how incremental updates over time amount to massive change. You’re listening to HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot. My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found, and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. How are you Craig?

– I’m really good. And so many little things to go through today that add up to quite significant improvements.

– That’s right. So let’s talk about our growth thought of the week, Craig. And you have put together a HubSpot Health Check.

– Well look, I just wanted to mention this to people. It’s a service we offer. So folks, this is a bit of a plug for one of my own services. We don’t do this enough though, do we?

– Craig, this is your second plug in four years.

– I know. We don’t really promote our agencies, but look, this might be helpful to some of our listeners. It’s an audit. It’s called HubSpot Health Check. We go through your portal. And this really… You know, speaking of increments, you know how all you need to do is just go a bit lax on something, and over time, like you eat a bit too much sugar.

– Correct.

– You just gradually… No one gets fat overnight, right?

– That’s right.

– No one gets messy and .

– The belt just gets tighter.

– Yeah, it’s incremental thing. So if that’s your HubSpot portal, you’ve had it for a couple years, and it’s gone a bit out of control, naming conventions, lists all over the place, emails, and you need a bit of a health check to review it and get it back on track, we’ve got a little service for that. So we’ve got a link in the show notes. You can go and check it out. Now, I’ll tell you who it’s for. It’s normally bigger companies. So they’ve got Pro, or Enterprise. It’s not really a fit for people on Starter. But yeah, take a look at it. We’ve got a whole, yeah, really a health check we go through.

– Now Listeners,

– Get a bit of guidance, yeah.

– Craig’s playing this down, but he’s spent a lot of time putting this together from doing the landing page, to creating the video, and putting the whole thing together. So it’s not anything small. He has taken a lot of time to think about it and go through it, and it’s something that we’ve done together in the past when we have spoken to clients.

– Yeah, this is all based on client experience. In fact really what this is, it’s about productizing, Ian. You’ve got to productize.

– That’s right.

– It’s basically taking all the processes that we do with our clients when we look at their HubSpot portals and review it and make recommendations, and really just putting that into a checklist to go through.

– Now Craig, HubSpot support.

– Is there an episode that doesn’t go by where we don’t talk about how good HubSpot support is?

– No, there rarely is. I know in our conversations together, we talk about them quite a bit.

– They’re so good. And in fact, just today I was on a HubSpot support issue with a client that had an SSL issue. We tried to go live, but there was an SSL issue, and I was looking at help files. It’s all DNS by Amazon, Route 53 and all this kind of stuff. And I was like, “Ugh.” And their IT couldn’t work it out. We’re just going backwards and forwards. On the HubSpot support, they’re so smart. An engineer’s obviously been pulled into this, that they’ve done to test for an SSL propagation. They’re really… This is top notch support. So anyway, we should stop talking about how good it is. Here’s the indicator, and here’s what I was thinking about , at some point, HubSpot’s going to get acquired. Let’s say probably by Google. That’d be an obvious choice, right? Let’s say, how would we know that it’s coming up? And I was thinking, when their HubSpot support starts degrading a bit, just getting back to everyone else, that’s going to be an indicator that… Because, it must cost a fortune, all the training they do for HubSpot support, right?

– Yes.

– For their support team, they’re always there, quick to respond, very well trained. That would cost them a lot of money. When they start pulling back and saving money on support to beef up the financials for a takeover, I reckon that’s the flag. So if we ever see HubSpot support degrading, look out for an acquisition. That’s what I’d say.

– There’s Craig’s tip for the week right there.

– Yeah, my malarky prediction of the week.

– All right Craig, onto HubSpot market feature of the week.

– Let’s look at a really small incremental marketing feature improvement.

– And a really good one.

– And it’s a really good one, and this came from a HubSpot blog. In fact, this show I think has the most HubSpots blog links in it

– I know.

– For a while from episode because their blog posts have been quite good lately.

– And you know what’s interesting is the move to we have obviously a monthly product, video updates, and then the updates are shared on the product update blog, let’s say. But what’s interesting is we’re seeing all of these things, all these bits of content where they’re like, “Ah.” The one where we discovered this one from was like, here’s eight things you don’t know about the HubSpot CMS, right? And I’m like, “Oh. What eight things don’t I know?” It got me. It was a great title, got me clicking through and reading it.

– And it was good. It was actually a good article, lots of tips in there. In fact, we could actually do a show where all we did is pull out tips from that blog post. But the one we’ve highlighted today is this

– Is the gold.

– This new feature. It’s image optimization setting when you’re inserting an image.

– Yes.

– Have you seen this before?

– No, I hadn’t. And people are probably going, “Why do I care about this?” You know what? It’s like we had just discussed before. Eating too much food, images are fat, right? They’re optimized correctly, way too big. So listeners, when you see a page loading, or it’s taking a long time, and this image is gradually loading, it’s a fat image, and you need to optimize that. And now Google’s… Sorry, not Google. HubSpot.

– It’s not Google yet.

– Platform, and they’ve actually done it really nice, the way they’ve implemented it. It’s a little dropdown that says, “Do you want high quality, so you’re getting better image quality? Do you want default, which is balanced for speed and quality, which is good? And you’ve got low quality, which is fast a lot of times.” So you know what? On a mobile device, you might actually want… If you’re creating a page, well let’s say you’ve got this in a smart content module that only shows up on mobile devices, for example. You might actually choose the low quality, fast loading image for that particular page in this instance.

– You know what’s interesting, though? That just reminded me. You know how we used to say mobile was really slow?

– Correct.

– I reckon half the time my mobile speed is quicker than my home internet speed.

– That’s right.

– So it’s almost like switching it around where you’re saying, “Oh, if you’re on mobile, large image is no problem. But if you’re at home…” When you’re talking about Australian internet speeds, it’s so, so embarrassing here in Australia. It’s almost like if you’re on a home network or a work network, you want the lower, smaller sized images.

– Now Craig, onto our HubSpot sales feature of the week, and these are product folders.

– Ah look, its folders are hired. They’re so proud of their folders, aren’t they?

– Well you know what, this is about incremental improvement, Craig.

– Is this about incremental improvement?

– Now I discovered this issue when we were trying to demo this to a customer, a potential customer, was that they had a massive product catalog. And one of the problems we’ve had is how do we organize products when you’ve got a catalog of a couple hundred items in there appropriately?

– Wow. So a couple hundred products.

– Yes.

– Wow. That’s…

– That was a lot. That was a challenge. And when I was speaking to them, folders weren’t out. It even came from HubSpot. They were like, “Oh, you need to actually name these correctly, so you can find it better.” And that was the solution. But now that we have folders, that’s going to solve a lot of problems. Regardless to say, there is a whole blog post about products and quotes, and about the tools. That’s in five recent updates.

– All right. And look, I just want to say, I’m not saying folders are a bad idea. You know how I’m bagging them out for promoting folders as this new amazing feature. I’m not saying, “Ah, that’s not a good feature.” I’m saying, “Of course.” Why wasn’t this in there from the start? This is not a feature, this is table stakes. So that’s my comment, but you’re right. It’s incremental improvement, and-

– That’s right, and I think-

– It was needed.

– That’s exactly right, and I think when they probably built this feature out, they probably had a handful. I’d say probably under 50 products that would’ve gone in there. Because that’s what people used it for, not realizing that people had hundreds, if not thousands of products that they wanted to load into HubSpot.

– It makes sense, doesn’t it? You could have a huge product catalog. And I know because we used to link our Shopify site into Hubspot. They don’t support that anymore, but that potentially for ecommerce, that could’ve brought in hundreds or thousands of products. So it makes sense.

– All right. On the blog post, there was some really interesting… That’s interesting CTA this is. Here’s some training you can do to improve your sales transparency with quotes. And I thought that was rather interesting. So it’s a little lesson, and a practicum after that about how to do that. Now in products, you will see, and this got highlighted by a customer of ours who we’re implementing products for that people could buy using the new buy button. So they were saying, okay, let’s take for example it’s a thousand dollar product. There’s a field there to put in your margin, right? So you can say, “Look, that product actually cost me 500 bucks. I’m selling it for a thousand.” They’re like, “Ah, do we need to put that in there, or can we just leave that blank? Because we don’t want the people that work for us to know how much that product is costing.” So I thought, “Yeah, okay. Cool. You don’t need to.” But I said, “By having the margin in there, is going to give you the ability to understand what you’re actually making, in terms of the sale.”

– So help me here. I can’t think of a good example of where not, of where hiding that would be bad. So you’re talking about the sales team, right?

– Yes, correct.

– Because they want to use products in quotes.

– Yep. Yes.

– And deals.

– Yep.

– What’s the benefit of withholding that, and them not knowing that?

– I’m just using a real life experience.

– No, but in the client’s mind, what was their justification for it?

– I don’t know. Maybe they didn’t want to know how much they were making on that particular product.

– Oh, right.

– That’s my suspicion.

– That’s weird. Okay.

– Anyway, the whole idea obviously in this whole sales transparency, if you know that, and you can apply discounts to products and quotes, you’ll make sure that you don’t apply a discount less than the real value of that product, right? So if you know that it was $1,000, and we were buying it for 500, I’m not going to discount it 50% to get rid of it, or 75% because I’m actually losing money now.

– Right. Oh, of course.

– Anyway, there’s some good training there by Kyle Jepson, so head over to the academy. It’s linked there.

– Oh, Kyle’s great. Actually, we featured him last week as well, didn’t we?

– I know, Kyle.

– Kyle.

– Kyle’s getting a regular-

– ICCPA, that’s right, in the episode.

– That’s right.

– Good one, Kyle.

– All right, onto our Gotcha of the week, Craig.

– Incremental opportunity for improvement here this Gotcha.

– It’s all about growing better. Now why I picked this up is because we use a lot of… We have a lot of accounts. Marketing Starter, we’ve had to add that on because we run ads. We do some email marketing, we make our landing page. Anyways, so I’m here thinking, having used the ads add-on in marketing professional enterprise thinking, “Yeah, this is fantastic. I’ll get the ads add-on, be able to track everything.” Anyway, I’m like, “Hang on.” I’m trying to work out the ROI here. It’s got a little padlock beside. Okay, I’ll ignore that for a little while. I want to add a column to see which of those contacts turn into customers. Oh hang on, that’s got a padlock too. I can’t add that column. So I don’t know whether these… And I thought, “Hang on. I bought the ads add-on. Why don’t I have this?” Anyway, there you go. You don’t get it. If you’re on Marketing Starter, you need to be on Marketing Professional and upwards to have those two features unlocked.

– I can see it both ways with the ROI. I think that’s dissappointing that they don’t show up when you’ve paid for the ads add-on.

– I agree.

– I can kind of understand it. ROI is a pro feature. But not showing a customer?

– Yes. In the column.

– That’s a life…

– In the column, right?

– That’s a life cycle stage.

– That seems petty.

– I think that’s a mistake.

– I know, and then I’m going to have to now do a little work around to figure out what’s going on, as to who began customers. I mean, I guess in a simplistic, if you don’t have heaps of data, you could click on the contacts in the the generate contacts in the ads section.

– Yeah, sure.

– And then click who has become, or create a list.

– Look, there’s a whole psychology, and I am sure the people at HubSpot spent a lot of time thinking about this. They’d be very clear on what we’re going to include, and what’s part of an upsale. But as an end user, there’s two ways you upsale. One is aspirational. Oh, that’s great. I would love to be able to do that. And two is, there’s a hurdle I need to get over. I need that for my job, and you’re frustrating me into the upsale. And this second one is clearly in the latter. It seems out of character for HubSpot. Normally when I see those padlocks, I go, “Yeah, well that’s fair enough.” That’s quite a lot of advanced functionality, or that’s quite a aspirational feature set would be good. But when it’s just… Yeah, this one just seems odd to me.

– Yeah, I can understand ROI. But the customer column, I don’t get that.

– Yeah, that’s the one I mean. Customer column seems weird.

– All right. Onto our market of the week, Craig.

– Speaking of ads.

– That’s right, about automating your ads in HubSpot.

– Yeah, so another blog post, HubSpot blog post. It’s quite good. Read the whole post, but this is a reminder that you can set workflows. Use workflows to set properties, so by workflows, of course we’re talking HubSpot Pro or Enterprise, to set properties that would impact whether a contact goes into a particular smart list or active list, and then those lists can be synced as audiences, so to Facebook, LinkedIn, et cetera. So this is just a reminder on that. You can use workflows to be segmenting your list, and that just flows through thanks to the ads add-on connecting audiences into those social channels. I think this is really good. So you might be doing retargetting audiences and things like that. Workflows are your friend. How often have we been saying that lately? It’s all workflow. It doesn’t matter what the question is. The answer is HubSpot workflows.

– Yes, this is a really good reminder to me. We run lots of ads across pretty much every client. I just forgot. I had seen these options in the workflow. You can choose by a particular Facebook campaign name, Facebook ID, et cetera. And I thought to myself, “Oh, hang on.” I did something where I was actually using lead ads to get people to download a particular guide, and I thought, “Okay. Well I could actually have the next thing as a followup to send them the frequently asked questions in email.” Which I had, maybe two days later, sent them a frequently asked questions email, and I can do that because I know that I can trigger it based on their ad, or I’ll put them into a list, et cetera. It was a good reminder, thank you. Insider of the week, Craig.

– All right, so we’ve been talking about incremental improvements in HubSpot, or marketing in general, I guess. I wanted to just share an experience that I’ve had lately. So I upgraded my phone on the weekend.

– Now Craig, you upgraded your phone not from an iPhone let’s say 8 or 10, but from an iPhone SE.

– That’s right. Which, I love this little phone because I really love that really form factor. An iphone, so folks, this is many years old, and I upgraded to an iPhone 11 Pro, which is amazing. Okay? So I mean, you might not like… For someone that’s not on IOS, if you’re on the Android, I don’t know what the equivalent is.

– Probably the Pixel. Actually a Galaxy.

– Assume an Android phone from four or five years ago to one brand new today, right? The change is incredible, and why am I talking about this? Because it’s like, yeah, of course. I mean, when you use outdated technology, of course. Here’s the thing, the change is so stark and so incredible for me. I am just in amazement at this phone. Whereas, I know you’ve upgraded a lot more regularly than me. It would’ve seemed like an incremental change to you. So for me, I’m just like my goodness. The camera is so incredible. The speed on this thing is so incredible, even just downloads. Even just wi-fi. It’s not our internet speed at home. It’s the phone. It’s just incredible.

– It’s the connection, yes.

– And the battery, I just leave it all day. I don’t have to recharge. Everything about this is incredible. It’s so much better.

– The stereo speakers.

– Speakers. Look, I could go on and on, right? But the point I’m making is, well let’s take another thing like HubSpot. Imagine the last time you used HubSpot was two years ago, and then you used it today. You’d be like, “Wow, this is a different product.” It’s got more hubs, for starters. It would be so much better. And the point, which is obvious, that I’m making is that incremental changes, the timeframe is what sets how massive those changes are. So comparing it over two years you go, “Wow. HubSpot is incredible compared to two years ago.” In the same way, I’m like, “Man, this phone is incredible compared to four or five years ago.” So think about your own marketing though because as a marketer, you might think, “Oh, I’m just plugging away, doing a little bit here and improving a little bit there.” This is what we often talk about, incremental improvements in our marketing. But you as a marketer, you as a person, you could be a massively better marketer than you were a couple years ago, and you just don’t realize it. And in some ways, you need to be. So the takeaway from this little section is twofold. One is don’t get down or feel down that… Even just improving a bit each day, and that’s even with this show. We want our… Dear listener, we want you to just improve one thing in using HubSpot, or doing marketing, especially marketing automation because incrementally over time, it has a massive impact. And the second thing of course is if you aren’t improving, if you’re just sitting there doing the same old thing each day, then you’re falling behind. And while you might not see that in a month or two, over a year or two, you are going to be way behind all the other marketers in your field. So just I guess a reminder to be continually learning, but don’t feel it has to be huge in spikes in a month. Over time, these really add up to quite a massive change.

– All right. Onto the HubSpot Extra of the week, Craig. It’s a really good blog post about insight into the HubSpot reporting platform evolution.

– So speaking of incremental change, so you know the reporting system? They’ve only been there for three years. Three years ago, there was no reporting engine.

– I know, which is really surprising.

– We laugh at that now. We should look back at how many integrations that they had a couple years ago.

– Yes.

– They’re a platform now. Right? Things change rapidly, and so three years I guess is a long time. But look how far they’ve come.

– Yeah.

– This blog post by Chelsea, is a really interesting insight into how they’ve embraced that along the way. Removing pain, basically getting people to a better place, and incremental improvement over time.

– And even just setting standards. I’ve read in the blog post, having standards about what they will and will not do, and being consistent in the outputs. One of the things I was saying, in how they visualize stuff, so having that consistency about how they report on things, big thing. If you look at the reporting and the things we get out of it, and we share with customers, it is constant improvement, right? It’s visually appealing. When we often show this to other people that might get the same information from other platforms, they’re often like, “Oh wow, that makes so much more sense to us in this format versus looking at it in this other format,” even though we might be telling them exactly the same thing.

– You know, that reminded me of another thing, just that whole UI update. Remember, well, how long ago was it, a year or two?

– Yes, they started.

– They started changing the colors and the look and feel.

– Correct.

– And imagine, at the start of that process, that must’ve looked like a daunting job. Oh, we’ve got to update the entire suite. That’s a big task.

– Yes.

– They just broke it down by chunks, and each month they’d be, “Oh, we’ve updated the interface on this, and then this changed.” They’re going through the same process with workflows at the moment.

– They are.

– Changing the whole workflow engine for context.

– Yes.

– Behind the scenes, right? Just incrementally doing it. And then, what do you know, a year’s gone by, and it’s actually totally different. Compare that to say other products, something at Salesforce who’ve now, they’ve got their new version, which is a complete new wrapper, and all the frustrations that go with that, people having to learn a new system. And then not only that, some features aren’t there, so I’ve got to go back into the old system just to do that thing that we… It’s a totally different approach.

– Even people building new wrappers in front.

– Yeah, well that’s right. I guess it all just comes back to this incremental improvement. It’s compounds, it’s your friend.

– Sure is. Now Craig, we’ve got a really good video. It’s been doing the rounds, and it’s about Steve Jobs on marketing. And we sat here and watched it together. You know what? Pretty ballsy, I have to say.

– From 1997, when he launched the Think Different Campaign, and he just talks about what marketing is, there should be a quote of the week for that.

– Yeah, and you know what, if you are in marketing, and if you’re in sales, I would recommend you actually take the time to watch this video from start to finish. You will get some nuggets out of it, guaranteed.

– The man was a master.

– Sure was. Until he wore those shorts, Craig. Anyway, quote of the week from the late Steve Jobs, “Marketing is about values.” Now Craig, we have anything as a bonus for out listeners?

– We’ve got some bonus thingies of the week, and I’ll just highlight. I found a spot where, an unusual oversight by HubSpot. If you import blog posts into the system, e.g. word posts you know who they set the user as who’s created that post? I’m showing a user account called Hubspot

– System.

– System. But the S in HubSpot is lowercase. They haven’t followed conventions. Who cares about this? I’m sure no one cares, but I just noticed that, and I thought that…

– That is a very good pick up, Craig.

– That’s a rare oversight on someone’s part.

– That’s right.

– And then we’ve got some articles as well.

– And this is not going to be in the show. Craig, now that you’ve got an iPhone 11 Pro, extra large screen, what is your favorite app? Tell me the top three things that you love about this phone.

– That I love about the phone, or the apps that I use?

– Well, could be a combination.

– Reading. I read a lot on my phone. My phone is a consumption device. I don’t do much work on it, so I might occasionally check emails, but I very rarely do work on the phone. It’s a consumption device. So I read a lot on Kindle and blog readers. I use the Kindle. Probably the Kindle app is the biggest time use on the phone. So viewing that on the bigger screen is just beautiful. And I also read a lot of blogs. And I do a bit of Twitter, actually. That’s good to read. You know the app I found recently is the Apple News app, the News Plus.

– Yes.

– Which launched in Australia. I know it’s been around in the US for ages, but in Australia, it was only the last month or two.

– Correct.

– And it looks really good.

– Yes, by you showing it to me, you surprised me what was inside there. I’m going to go have a look at it.

– Yeah, and I’m just in the free trial at the moment, but reading all of these magazines that I have access to, I think it would be even better on an iPad, a big iPad with a beautiful screen.

– Yes.

– Because these are these great magazines.

– Yeah, so listeners, just so you know, the Apple News Plus app is actually not just news. It actually includes a lot of very well known magazines that a lot of people would read regularly. I was actually really surprised. I thought, I’ve got news. Why do I need that? Anyway, there’s a little tip for you. Well listeners, we hope you enjoyed the show. We’d love you to leave us a rating on Apple podcast. Share this episode with someone who would benefit, who actually uses HubSpot, or is considering using HubSpot. Until next time, Craig.

– Catch you later, Ian.

– Thank you for listening to this episode of HubShots. For show notes, resources, HubSpot news, including practical strategies you can implement, visit us at hubshots.com.