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Episode 212: GPT-3, Core Web Vitals, HubSpot AI & HubSpot Workflow Delay until Event Actions

Episode 212: GPT-3, Core Web Vitals, HubSpot AI & HubSpot Workflow Delay until Event Actions

Welcome to HubShots Episode 212: GPT-3, Core Web Vitals, HubSpot AI & HubSpot Workflow Delay until Event Actions

This episode we discuss GPT-3, Core Web Vitals, HubSpot AI, HubSpot Delay until Event Workflow Actions, plus a Drag and Drop email gotcha.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/212-gpt-3-core-web-vitals-hubspot-ai-hubspot-workflow-delay-until-event-actions

Welcome to HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Recorded: Thursday 23 July 2020 | Published: Friday 31 July 2020

Shot 1: Growth Thought of the Week

Thank you to our listeners and those who leave us reviews.  Here is one recently:

IMG 8D3868BEDC79 1

GPT-3 Overview

There’s been lots of talk about GPT-3 in the past few weeks. What is it and why all the fuss?

GPT-3 is the next iteration of the artificial intelligence API developed by Open AI (a company formed by Elon Musk, Sam Altman and others). It has been getting a lot of attention due to the example project people on the beta program have been building.

This is a good example of it GPT-3 in action, and here’s a good overview video from Aaron Jack.

Wired has a good overview with examples.

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

HubSpot Workflow Delay Until Event Action

HubSpot has added another Workflow Delay Action into the mix – this adds to the one we mentioned in episode 206 – this time it is a Delay until Event action:

hubspot workflow delay event

Which gives these options:

hubspot workflow delay event action

Fun to look with hindsight at some of the community posts that were inspirations for this kind of functionality.

As of recording today, it wasn’t yet in the HubSpot Knowledge Base article.

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

HubSpot AI Enablement on Inbox

Follow On from HubSpot AI enablement.  Looks like it is working well and saving time on data input!  Items like Job Title, etc.

Property History

Shot 4: HubSpot Stumper of the Week

HubSpot Drag and Drop Email Layouts versus Modules

If you are building single column emails (which is becoming best practice – especially since mobile is the main consumption device) it can be easily only drag Modules onto the email canvas – and then get confused as to why you can’t control the styling of the module.

The styling is set at the Layout level – so simply drag on Layout items first, and then add your Modules into them.

hubspot email content items

Shot 5: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

HubSpot Lifecycle Stage changes in a Workflow

Reminder: To move a lifecycle stage back (eg from SQL to MQL) in a Workflow you need to clear the Lifecycle property first.

hubspot lifecycle changes

Shot 6: Marketing Tip of the Week

Understanding Core Web Vitals

Core Web Vitals: in essence they are real-world user experience metrics when viewing a web site page.

1. Largest contentful paint (LCP)

2. Cumulative layout shift (CLS)

3. First input delay (FID)

They will be part of the ranking algorithm, starting in 2021 (sometime).

Think of it like this: how quickly can I interact with a web page.

See also Google’s blog post where they include stats on the benefits of meeting thresholds:

“The Largest Contentful Paint (LCP) metric measures when a page-to-page navigation appears complete to a user. We recommend sites aim to keep LCP under 2.5 seconds for 75% of their page loads.”

The metrics for your site are available in Google Search Console.

Shot 7: Insight of the Week

SEO Studies are just guesses

But even guesses can be useful.

A good reminder that studies of data about Google results can be deceptive. Lots of good examples of mistaken study findings in this article from Search Engine Journal.

Shot 8: HubSpot Report of the Week

HubSpot Marketing Email Health Report in BETA

Love the clear nature of this to take action on items that need attention.  In this case unsubscribe rate on one of our accounts!

Mouse Highlight Overlay

Shot 9: Resource of the Week

Bing Webmaster Tools WordPress Plugin

Bing have released a WordPress plugin for easily submitting site URLs to Bing.

Yes, Bing, you should be including it in your activities.

Shot 10: Quote of the Week

“Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one.” — Marcus Aurelius

Shot 11: Bonus Links of the Week

Success Resources on Hacker News

A wonderful thread from a few months ago on Hacker News.

Here’s the opening thread:

Yes, there are tons of resources but I’ll try to offer some simple tips.

1. Sales is a lot like golf. You can make it so complicated as to be impossible or you can simply walk up and hit the ball. I’ve been leading and building sales orgs for almost 20 years and my advice is to walk up and hit the ball.

2. Sales is about people and it’s about problem solving. It is not about solutions or technology or chemicals or lines of code or artichokes. It’s about people and it’s about solving problems.

3. People buy 4 things and 4 things only. Ever. Those 4 things are time, money, sex, and approval/peace of mind. If you try selling something other than those 4 things you will fail.

4. People buy aspirin always. They buy vitamins only occasionally and at unpredictable times. Sell aspirin.

5. I say in every talk I give: “all things being equal people buy from their friends. So make everything else equal then go make a lot of friends.”

6. Being valuable and useful is all you ever need to do to sell things. Help people out. Send interesting posts. Write birthday cards. Record videos sharing your ideas for growing their business. Introduce people who would benefit from knowing each other then get out of the way, expecting nothing in return. Do this consistently and authentically and people will find ways to give you money. I promise.

7. No one cares about your quota, your payroll, your opex, your burn rate, etc. No one. They care about the problem you are solving for them.

There is more than 100 trillion dollars in the global economy just waiting for you to breathe it in. Good luck.

Shot 12: Follow Us on the Socials

Connect with HubShots here: HubShots YouTube channel – HubShots Spotify channel – HubShots Facebook group – HubShots Twitter – HubShots Instagram – HubShots LinkedIn

Connect with Ian Jacob on LinkedIn and Craig Bailey on LinkedIn

HubShots is produced by Christopher Mottram from Podcastily.

Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

Episode 212: GPT-3, Core Web Vitals, HubSpot AI & HubSpot Workflow Delay until Event Actions

Full Transcript of the Episode

– Hi, everyone. Welcome to HubShots episode 212. In this episode, we talk about GPT-3, and no that’s not a fast car. Call web vitals, HubSpot AI, HubSpot delay until event workflow actions, plus drag and drop email gotcha. You’re listening to Asia Pacific’s number one HubSpot focus podcast, where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks, strategies, and features for growing your sales service and marketing results. My name is Ian Jakey from Search & Be Found, and with me is Craig Bailey from Xen Systems. How are you Craig?

– Really good, and like last episode, we have so much to get through this episode. So many cool things. We’re only gonna touch on them and scratch the surface, especially when we come up to our first one. But first you pulled out a great review that we got, and I’m sure we love to see those, don’t we?

– That’s right. So thank you to all of our listeners that take the time to leave us reviews. And I’m gonna read one out from a Weather Header here, and we know who you are and here it is. It says bringers of marketing goodness. I’m a longtime fan of Ian and Craig’s superb podcasts. Their format and content keeps me connected into the evolving space of digital marketing. Alongside expert HubSpot insight, their podcast concisely discusses, and provokes how we tackle holistic modern marketing, not just the digital trends. Thanks for your many years of contributing to the NZ marketing community. And how cool is that? Thanks, Dan.

– Yeah, thanks so much Dan. And look, we don’t do it often. We don’t do this thing often where we luxuriate and things like that. But frankly, it just made my day when I saw this. And thank you so much and well, if you wanna write another review, we value them greatly. Thank you so much, and thank you for recommending us to other people as well and sharing about the podcast. Thank you so much.

– All right, Craig, now GPT-3, it’s not a new car like I said before, what is this?

– Okay, I’m quickly gonna touch on the topic because it’s been getting a lot of excitement in the last week or two. We’re recording this on the 23rd of July. So in the last couple of weeks, it’s been getting a lot of interest on Twitter. And by the time you actually hear the show, it might’ve died down a bit. But I think it’s worth just quickly giving an overview of GPT-3. You’re gonna hear a lot of more of it in the coming year, and for marketers, this is just something for you to be aware of. You can’t actually use it yourself yet, I mean, unless you’re a beta user. But very quickly what it is, it’s the next iteration of an artificial intelligence, I’m gonna say algorithm or a API developed by OpenAI, which is a company. There’s a few people, Elon Musk, Sam Altman, I think Reid Hoffman’s in there, a bunch of others. Although I don’t think that Elon Musk is still, he might’ve resigned… Anyway, it doesn’t matter. A bunch of really smart people have formed it And their whole goal is to build artificial intelligence tools with the caveat that they protect it so it’s not abused. So that’s an undergirding principle behind it. Anyway, there’s been a few iterations, GPT1, GPT2, GPT-3 has a massive, massive data set that it’s put together. And it’s really just about forming connections between words and concepts. I’m not an expert in it. I don’t pretend to. And the part of me explaining it here is not because I’m an expert or I’ve used it, but just to highlight to marketers, you need to be following this trend. And if nothing else look at some of the show notes links that we’ve got where we point off to a wired article, some other good examples where people are using this to write content. In fact, one of the links I’ll send you to, I’m not gonna tell you, ’cause you have to read it first, halfway through you go, oh, actually this was written by this OpenAI GPT-3. So they put in a few topics and then the AI writes this content. And then this doesn’t just apply to content. It’s about sequences, people are using it in Excel, they’re using an all kinds of things to see, what’s when you forward a trend? I’ve just had a mind blank. I need the AI to help me

– Let me get the AI to help you at Craig.

– Extrapolate, sorry, thank you. Extrapolate, my goodness. flex, it’s only 7:30 at night and I still can’t… I’ve lost my…

– It’s your haircut, Craig. You’re losing lots of heat through the top of your head.

– You know what, I should do one of those special cognitive tests that a president of a certain country did recently. I wonder if I’d even pass, frankly, the way I’m going in this segment. But look, this is exciting stuff. And really marketers ought to be scared about this kind of thing, because it’s gonna put a lot of them out of work, the way it’s gonna write ads, it’s gonna write content, it’s gonna write briefs, it’s gonna look at trends, it’s gonna assimilate information, pull out insights. This is incredible. You’ve seen some of the demos Ian, what’s been your response?

– I’m pretty amazed. And I think you’re quite right in saying, Craig, we should all be concerned as marketers. And I think we’re seeing this already in certain tools that we use where this is happening with recommendations, with suggestions, and I’m like, wow. It’s like we’re having to do less and less of the things we used to do. But I recommend everybody watch that video that we have put in the show notes. All right, listeners onto our HubSpot marketing feature the week. And you know how we love workflows to automate stuff. And here is two little things that have been highlighted and this is the workflow delay action, and we mentioned this back in 2006, but now there is a delay until event happens. And Craig, what are those events that we can delay till?

– Yeah, so this is really cool. This is around having a workflow pause, perhaps indefinitely waiting for an event. And the three events are a page visited, a form submitted or a property value changed. And when you think about property value changed, you could basically change a property based on just about anything that you can think of. So as long as you can catch that and switch it. So this is gonna be exciting. I only saw this I think yesterday. So I haven’t actually played around to build out an example, just full disclosure. I don’t normally like to mention stuff in the show if I haven’t actually built anything with it yet. But one of the ones I’m looking at is really around onboarding. You can imagine onboarding sequences here, where you build a welcome, possibly a nurture, but wait for them to do something. You could even use this internally staff, make sure they visit a page, go and view something, pick something, property changes. Okay, next sent email in a sequence or create a task. All kinds of things could happen. So you might even… The possibilities are endless. So even just chatting about them, you think about some of them, people wanna nurture workflow, they come back, they wait until I visit another page that connects a task that goes off to sales and then something else triggers. So lots of opportunity here. And as we build these out, I almost wanna make a shot each show, which will be this episode’s delay until the event scenario shot. I just reckon there’s gonna be so many useful ways to use this new workflow action.

– Now, Craig, you hired a really interesting one was onboarding and checking to see if people had visited particular pages on your site. And I think that’s a really good example because I know for a fact, we always think about people externally to our businesses utilizing our site, but what about people internally to our businesses that actually know what’s going on when website updates are happening or pricing changes take place. Are they actually onboard or they’re looking at stuff? So this is actually a really good way to maybe trigger something off when that takes place. Now Craig, the HubSpot sales feature of the week. And we’ve discussed this in the last two episodes of the last episode.

– Yeah, they’re speaking of AI from GPT-3 in the opening instance. I wonder if HubSpot’s gonna embrace that as part of what you’re about to discuss further.

– That’s right. So listen, as we spoke about HubSpot AI being enabled on your inbox. Now the previous episode we turned it on, we had a little bit of a gotcha, especially if your account was already preexisting. Now on new accounts, I think when you connect it, it might automatically happen. But we’ve had it running and it got me excited because it’s saved inputting data like job title, addresses, telephone numbers, et cetera, into the contact record. And I’ve actually got a screenshot of where the HubSpot AI has intervened and filled out all of those details. And I tell you what I’ve been talking to all of our customers and clients and showing this to them, especially all the sales guys, and they’re cheering. They’re so excited. So I know it’s working and listeners, if you haven’t turned this on in your portal, just go and do it. It takes a whole of two minutes and get it started because I think you’ll find some benefits from there.

– The thing I really like about this, and you’ve got this in screenshot in the show notes, is the source. So you can tell which properties have actually been changed by HubSpot AI. ‘Cause that was my question. I was wondering, okay, great, it’s doing this stuff behind the scenes. How do you actually know what it’s done? And of course I shouldn’t have been concerned. It’s right there. It’s marked in the source and next to each property change.

– All right, Craig, onto the HubSpot stumper of the week.

– All right. This was originally gonna be in my gotcha, but I put it in the stumper because I’ve got another thing that’s in the gotcha. But I just wanted to remind or alert people to the HubSpot drag and drop email layouts versus modules confusion that sometimes you might run into. So this will make more sense when you’re seeing the screenshot. But if you’re in a drag and drop email, which by the way, you should be using drag and drop email. Can you even bear to use the previous emails, Ian? No. Drag and drop. Like everything is drag and drop. Even when we go back, you think, oh, I’ll just clone a previous newsletter from six months ago, ’cause the template was great. And like now I’m just building it again from scratch. Drag and drop it’s so much better. However, one of the gotchas or things that confused me, I have to say, and it’s embarrassing now that I look at it, but because I fell for it, perhaps someone else will as well is I was dragging on content modules onto a, it’s just a simple newsletter layout. And I dragged one module from a section below into a section above. Now what I hadn’t realized was, and here’s why you fall into it because you have single column layouts. I don’t know. Do you ever do any more than single column? Do you ever do two columns? No? Best practice is single column emails these days predominantly because a lot of mobile users and single column is the best way. I do see still people building double two column or even worse emails and look, just stop it. I think it’s a bad idea. But single column, you think, oh, I’ve got one layout. This is the trap you fall into. I’ve got one layout that I can use. No, you can drag many single layout items onto your email and the problem I fell into is I was dragging content items in, but I was dragging between layouts and they were changing formatting. And I didn’t realize. Here’s the thing, styling is set at the layout level, not the module level. So when you’ve got single column you think, oh, they’re all just single modules. Where’s the styling? Well, it’s done on the layout and you can just drag multiple layouts in. It’s really easy and obvious when you know and if you’re familiar with it, you be going, Craig, what is your problem? How did, how did you fall for this? If you’re not that familiar, then maybe that’s a helper to you. And thanks to Roslyn, you know what? When we were having our daily catch up today with the team, and I said, I’ve got this problem with drag and drop email layouts. What am I doing wrong? Roslyn, can you just at the end, can you just show me within 30 seconds? She just goes, “No, no, you just drag that layout on.” And I was like, oh, I knew it was simple. I’d been stuffing around for 15 minutes trying to sort it out. So there you go.

– All right, listeners now, here’s the HubSpot gotcha of the week. And this is HubSpot life cycle changes using a workflow. And just a reminder that if you move a lifecycle backwards from a sales qualified lead to a marketing qualified lead in the workflow, you must clear the lifecycle property first. And we’ve put an example of how to do that, but you can’t just set that property. So you’ve got to clear it and then update it in an action.

– So this has a bit of a gotcha that was on a client site. We found this, they had somehow accidentally sent a whole bunch of contacts to be evangelist lifecycle. And so then they went, oh yeah, we’ll just put them in a workflow and set them all back to marketing qualified lead. And of course it had failed. And that’s why it was, yep. You’ve got to clear it first if you’re gonna set it back. Can set it forwards easily, but you can’t set it back without clearing first.

– Is that the only one Craig or is there other ones that you’ve got to do the same?

– I think that might be the only one.

– Do you mean other fields?

– Yeah.

– Yeah. I think life cycles fields’ the only one I’m aware of that you have to clear before sending it back.

– Yeah, I think you’re right.

– I could be wrong and something might change.

– Listeners, let us know.

– All right, our marketing tip of the week, Craig. Now this is really interesting and we talked about understanding Core Web Vitals. And in essence, it’s really about understanding real world user experiences, experience metrics, essentially when viewing a website. And so now we’re gonna talk through the three key metrics that this encompasses and why this is important, right? So Craig, do you wanna explain what the three are and then we’ll talk a bit more about why it’s important for us to understand this going forward.

– Yeah, so this is right. So Core Web Vitals. You’re probably seeing it referred to a lot, but you haven’t actually taken the time to read about what it is. It’s actually really simple, but unfortunately they use a bunch of terms that make it sound complex and techie and oh, a bit of leave that to the tech team. It’s really simple and here is all you need to think of it. You need to think it’s how quickly can I interact with a web page? And that’s what these metrics are about, which we will go through in a second. But the reason it came up is ’cause a client of ours, obviously they’d been getting some advice, someone talking in their ear saying, oh, Google is gonna make user experience part of the ranking algorithm next year. And I’m like, yeah. Okay, so what are you specifically talking about? Because we do know part of that is already in such… And then, oh, are you talking about Core Web Vitals? I don’t know, there was lots of weird technical terms. It turns out it was Core Web Vitals. So if you’ve heard this term, it’s really simple and there’s three metrics and you can get at these in Google search console. And you should have a good Google search console. Do you wanna mention what they are and I can give a bit of context to each as we go through?

– Sure, the first one is called Largest Content for Paint or known as LCP. The second one is Cumulative Layout Shift, also known as CLS. And third is First Input Delay, which is the FID.

– Well look, if someone’s telling you about these, no wonder you’re thinking, oh, this is a techie thing. I’ve got no idea what this is talking about. So let me translate that from geek-speak to simple terms. Largest Content for Paint. Just think of that is how long does it take for the page to render. The second one Cumulative Layout Shift. It’s like, how long does it take for the page to size itself. So a simple example, you know how they have an image placeholder. Sometimes you’ll see the page loading and then suddenly a jumps when the image displays? That’s what they call it a layout shift. So that second one is just how long it sort of displays in the format it’s gonna stay displayed in. And First Input Delay, that’s really just how long before I can interact with the page. It’s loading. You’ve ever had that when you’re loading a page and you can’t scroll ’cause it’s still stuck there?

– Yes.

– That’s all it is. And the point of this is you can get measurements of these in Google search console for your site. Google themselves, and we’ve got a link to their blog has said, look, they’ve got benchmarks for each of these metrics. And if you keep your pages under these metrics, you’re less likely to have people leave. So for example, that first one, Largest Content for Paint, LCP, which is basically how long to show the page, they’re saying, if it’s under 2.5 seconds, then most people will stick around for that. Longer than that and they start leaving. So it’s just around how fast your site is really to work with.

– Which is what we’ve been talking about for a long time. Haven’t we Craig?

– There’s no great insight here that something’s changed. It’s really just about putting metrics to what we know is our general user experience of using websites.

– Correct. And I think it’s great that they have these thresholds, I guess, so people know where they stand. And so users, I would recommend you don’t be afraid. Actually start looking at these and see how you can improve them on your site and be aware that they are in search console already.

– And you know what Ian, what do we always say about hosting? That’s right.

– It’s sometimes good to get decent hosting. It improves all of these metrics.

– And as we said before, the number of clients where we come on there they’re scrimping to save. So they only spend nine bucks a month on hosting and then they send thousands of dollars worth of paid traffic to it and wonder why people are leaving?

– Doesn’t work.

– Yeah.

– Actually there’s an interesting stat I saw with one of my clients today. Had quite a high bounce rate. We switched their host and did some optimization. Their bounce rate has, the graph just looks like that significant. And I was like, oh, look at that massive reduction in bounce rate. Oh, because the page is actually loading quick and people are actually getting to what they want. So they’re less likely to leave. And I think it’s just a really clear demonstration of the simple things you can do to make a big difference to your site.

– Spot on.

– All right. Insight of the week, Craig. ACS studies are just guesses.

– I’ll summarize this in two sentences. It’s an article on Search Engine Journal where he breaks down all these SEOs So you know where people say, oh, we’ve analyzed billions of records and here’s what helps Google rankings. This article just says, it just highlights how bogus some of them are. And there’s good quiet. It’s like great for sales pitches, not great for statistical reality. So SEO studies are guesses. Sometimes the guesses can be useful though. So not disregarding them altogether, but check out the article for further details, if that’s of interest.

– All right, on to our HubSpot report or the week, Craig. And this is the Email Health Report, which is in beta. So users, if you have not sent enough emails, there’ll be nothing there. Or you’ve maybe like Craig, you send way too many emails, you might not see anything because it is in beta. But I was looking at this innovative screenshot in the show notes from a customer account and it was really nicely laid out. Really gives you an understanding of your overall health. And so it takes into some key health metric breakdowns. And what they’re looking at is open rate, click through rate, hard bounce rate, and unsubscribe rate. And it really nicely has like, it’s like a red, orange, green, and a little bar graph about where you are. So understanding at the red end it’s action needs to be taken in the middle it’s orange, work to be done, and at the end, it’s on track. So that’s the overall. And then below that it gives you the breakdowns and it tells you what you need to work on. So in the screenshot, I can see open rate, I’ve got a little bit of work to be done. It was at 22%, but it still says I need some work there. And you can see some details. Click through rate’s not bad. Hard bounce rate it says it’s on track, but my unsubscribe rate needs action. So really clearly understands what you need to work on. It’s really simple things for example. When you send an email and emails bounce, create simple lists, contact views for your sales team to follow up their contacts, to understand, hey, have they departed the company? Have they misspelled their email? Hopefully less of that happens with HubSpot AI, and maybe they moved on, so they don’t wanna hear from them, or maybe they have a new contact. So it’s a really good way to keep the engagement with sales and the customer happening longterm. And just looking at this all the time and making people understand that this is a regular process of keeping your house tidy, you should look at this after every time you send an email. Look at the metrics, do the followup, do the cleanup and keep it good because it will pay massive dividends in the end.

– Yeah, valuable reminder, Ian.

– All right, Craig, we’ve got our resource of the week.

– Just quickly in passing Bing webmaster tools have released a WordPress plugin. So you just put that on your site and that allows you to easily submit site URLs to Bing. And yes folks, you should be including Bing in your activities, especially in some industries and especially in some demographics. All the demographics, seniors tend to have the standard out of the box laptop but as Bing as the default search engine and also a lot of tech people I know actually as Bing. Not to be dismissed.

– Now, let’s head on to our quote of the week, and this is by Marcus Aurelius, and it says, “Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be, “be one.” Or a good woman, I say. All right, listeners, there are lots of good resources and Burness links in the show notes. So we encourage you to look at that. Please connect with us on LinkedIn and thank you to those who have connected with us LinkedIn. And even after they’ve connected, sent me a message saying, I meant to say that I listened to the podcast.

– Oh, can I just say, ’cause I actually went through LinkedIn today. It’s been probably a week or so since and I’m way behind. So I’m so sorry folks, but yes, a whole bunch of people are very friendly and very kind and then… And by the way, I’m not trying to sell you something. I really appreciate it and I will be responding to you. Thank you for that.

– So we do appreciate it. Please continue to connect with us. Tell us your stories. We love to hear from you guys. And if you need help, again, please, don’t be afraid to ask Craig or myself. We will be glad to help you or point you in the right direction. Well Craig, until next week–

– Catch you later, Ian.

– Hey there, thanks for listening to this episode of HotShots. To get the latest show notes, HubSpot tips and marketing resources, sign up at hubshots.com. You can also book time with us to help you grow better with HubSpot.

Episode 211 Bogus outreach emails, banning TikTok, PieSync tip

Episode 211: Bogus outreach emails, banning TikTok, PieSync tip

Welcome to HubShots Episode 211: Bogus outreach emails, banning TikTok, PieSync tip

This episode we discuss bogus outreach emails, banning TikTok and how to use PieSync to sync HubSpot customers into Xero.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/211-bogus-outreach-emails-banning-tiktok-piesync-tip

Welcome to HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Recorded: Thursday 16 July 2020 | Published: Friday 24 July 2020

Shot 1: Growth Thought of the Week

Bogus engagement emails

Sadly bogus outreach/engagement emails are picking up again – here’s a recent example:

bogus email outreach

If purports to be a forwarded on email from the CEO to an assistant, who forwards it on to me.

Apart from the giveaway that it is sent from ActiveCampaign and has a mass email unsubscribe link, and has no timestamp on the supposed initial email, simply checking the original email will show it is a single email – there’s no forwarding chain.

Plus Ian and Craig both received it at the same time (ie obviously automated).

We first mentioned this email outreach ‘hack’ back in Shot 7 of HubShots episode 133 in August 2018. Back then it was a much better example – much harder to confirm since they were actually single emails (ie not mass broadcast campaigns) – but even then we were dubious about it.

The issue is that it is dishonest, and whilst it might have a window of time where it works, ultimately it reflects badly on you as being spammy and disingenuous.

We are all for continually testing new ideas – but don’t let your integrity levels slide.

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Using PieSync to sync customer contacts in HubSpot over to Xero

This is a perfect use case for PieSync – simply add a contact in HubSpot and then have it automatically synced over to Xero. Here’s how we’ve set it up:

Create a custom contact property so you can mark which contacts to sync – eg we’ve created a few for triggering a number of syncing processes:

hubspot piesync 1

Add this to your Contact layout and then tick on for appropriate contacts eg:

hubspot piesync 2

Create an Active list based on the custom contact property:

hubspot piesync 4

Setup the PieSync connection

Set up a connection between HubSpot and Xero.

Only sync from HubSpot over to Xero (but for those contacts from HubSpot, keep the two-way sync)

hubspot piesync 5

The contact will be created as a Contact in Xero:

hubspot piesync 6

Note: the Xero record includes a link (right hand side) but we found this didn’t link to the right place – it links through to a contact view that isn’t correct.

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Automatically populate contact properties with HubSpot AI

So it looks like the following is turned on.

Settings 20

However you need to to enable Inbox Automation under Settings > Email Integrations


Settings 18


Shot 4: HubSpot Stumper of the Week

Revisiting the Forms Submissions report from Episode 207

In episode 207 we answered a question around how to display on a dashboard the list of popup form submissions.

We’ve had a follow up question from Martin about the form submissions that are included:

“Hey Guys. Quick question. It’s my understanding that the property “form submission” changes each time the contact fills out a new form. Does the report look at the property’s historical values or is it just showing the last value?”

Property Editor

Answer: The Form Submissions listing in the report comes from the list of forms (ie not from the Contact record) and thus includes all the form submissions ie there may be multiple form submissions per contact.

Shot 5: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

HubSpot Non Form Popup Form Stats

A reminder about reporting on non-form popup forms ie popup forms that simply link through, rather than having a form that is submitted.

We first chatted about this in episode 197 in Shot 2 and noted that reporting on ‘submissions’ is only related to form submits ie it doesn’t include clicking buttons on the popups.

At the time we noted that we expected this to come in time. It’s not yet in place, so Tara has created a Community request – please vote it up:

HubSpot Community > Popup Forms: Report on Non-Form Type Popup Forms

Example: the first popup has a form, the second doesn’t:

hubspot form submissions 1

Shot 6: Marketing Tip of the Week

How to automatically open links in Chrome

Sick of Chrome prompting you with a popup each time you click a zoom link?

Yep, us too – here’s how to fix it.

Shot 7: Insight of the Week

Facebook as a bad butcher

Long time listeners will recall how we compared Facebook to cigarettes back in episode 151 in February 2019 (ie last year).

Kara Swisher has an even better analogy in her New York Times opinion column last week. She compass Facebook to a bad butcher:

“Think about Facebook as a seller of meat products.

Most of the meat is produced by others, and some of the cuts are delicious and uncontaminated. But tainted meat — say, Trump steaks — also gets out the door in ever increasing amounts and without regulatory oversight.

The argument from the head butcher is this: People should be free to eat rotten hamburger, even if it wreaks havoc on their gastrointestinal tract, and the seller of the meat should not be the one to tell them which meat is good and which is bad (even though the butcher can tell in most cases).

Basically, the message is that you should find the truth through vomiting and — so sorry — maybe even death.

In this, Mr. Zuckerberg is serving up a rancid meal that he says he’s not comfortable cooking himself, even as his hands control every aspect of the operation. Which is why I say to him and every executive at Facebook: You cannot hold on to such enormous power and avoid responsibility when things get tough.”

This is a thought provoking comparison. Here’s the reason it is important for marketers: We need to be thoughtful about where we advertise and implement marketing. For many businesses, we have no option but to use Facebook as a channel. But that doesn’t mean we can’t be thoughtful about it.

If you’d asked me (Craig) a month ago about which side I was on, I would have had a strong answer. But after reading both sides I now realise it is a lot more complex and complicated. I can see both sides, but I actually don’t have a strong position anymore – I’m still thinking it through.

Takeaway: be informed, be thoughtful, aim for positive impact

Shot 8: HubShots Hidden Gem of the Week

Integrate Google Tag Manager into HubSpot

Note: this only applies to pages (web pages and landing pages):

Settings 19

Please note: you will still need to have the Google Tag Manager code for the Blog Templates!

Shot 9: Resource of the Week

Ben Thompson has an illuminating Stratechery post on the future of TikTok, indicating there is a good case to be made for it to be banned.

Worth reading, and also reviewing Benedict Evan’s presentation from February called The Shoulders of Giants where he highlights that the Next Big Thing will be: regulation.

We discussed this in detail back in episode 189 in Shot 9.

Shot 10: Quote of the Week

“Tactical sounds like: ‘What could we do to increase sales?’

Strategic sounds like: ‘Why are our sales numbers not twice as big? What is the core obstacle preventing the doubling of our revenue?’”

From chapter 23 of The Road Less Stupid by Keith Cunningham

Takeaway: Start your thinking with strategic questions

Shot 11: Follow Us on the Socials

Connect with HubShots here: HubShots YouTube channel – HubShots Spotify channel – HubShots Facebook group – HubShots Twitter – HubShots Instagram – HubShots LinkedIn

Connect with Ian Jacob on LinkedIn and Craig Bailey on LinkedIn

HubShots is produced by Christopher Mottram from Podcastily.

Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

Hey there, thanks for listening to this episode of HubShots.

To get the latest show notes, HubSpot tips and marketing resources, sign up at hubshots.com

You can also book time with us to help you grow better with HubSpot.

Episode 211 Bogus outreach emails, banning TikTok, PieSync tip

Full Transcript of HubShots Episode 211

– Hi, everyone, welcome to “HubShots” Episode 211. In this episode, we discuss bogus outreach emails, banning TikTok, and how to use PieSync to sync customers in to Xero. You’ll listen to Asia Pacific’s number one HubSpot Focus podcast, where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks and strategies for growing your sales, marketing and service results. My name is Ian Jacob, from Search & Be Found, and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN systems. How are you Craig?

– I’m really well and we have so much to get through in the show tonight. You know what, I was just wanting to alert our listeners, this will be a longer episode than normal. And it’s funny because remember a couple episodes ago, we said oh, we’re gonna try and do them in 15 minutes. And of course we failed after about a week or two ’cause I just yabber on too much. But we actually had listeners say to us, “Oh no, we like the longer format we don’t like the shorter format.” So back to kind of a longer format, but actually this might go over time please let us know whether you actually stick around to the end or whether we should to try and keep it just back to 22 minutes, which is where we usually end up around.

– Alright, so Growth Thought the Week, Craig, is about bogus engagement emails, and-

– Oh, my goodness. And we spoke about this back in Episode 133, wasn’t it? It’s like someone has rehashed this again, to bring it to light.

– Yeah, almost two years ago, we spoke about this with some bemusement at the time, I listened back to it. And we do have a link in the show note, shot seven of Episode 133. But I got this email and we were sharing it on our WhatsApp group, and just laughing about how… I’m hesitant to say dishonest although it borders on it. But it’s disingenuous, and I’ll just explain what it is. They’ve got this obviously an email template, and I think they’re using ActiveCampaign to send this out. And by the way, the person that sends this, I actually quite like him and I’ve actually bought some of his products. I was disappointing to say this. I’m actually a fan, he does really good stuff, but he’s purported to have sent on, so a message from the CEO, sent to his assistant and the assistant forwards that to me to say, “Oh, my CEO said, you know, you should check in, book in a time in the calendar.” And it’s just that, it just looked so bogus. You can tell for starters, it’s a messy email. Two, there’s not even any timing on the forward, supposedly from the CEO. So it’s obviously just a template that they’ve put in the placeholder tokens and three you and I received the exact same email. I’m just like, does this work on anyone? Maybe it does.

– You know what, Craig, I think it must work. I mean people, obviously, you know, are thinking, “Wow, he actually cares and I need to book a time in.” I mean, what’s the dead giveaway it says sent to you, it’s got the unsubscribe link, it’s got the details that looks like email marketing. So you kinda wonder how this happened. But here you go, folks, again, some of these old tactics coming to the surface, again.

– We’ve got a screenshot in the show notes. Check it out, have a laugh.

– And let us know if you have a laugh and send us a connection.

– Yeah.

– Book a time in Craig’s calendar, I say. It’s too funny, anyway, onto our HubSpot Marketing Feature of the week Craig, and this is using PieSync to sync customer contacts into HubSpot, from HubSpot to Xero and back again, keeping things in sync again. So now, listeners, if you didn’t listen to our previous episode about PieSync, please do. It’s got some really great stuff. And one of the things you should know, PieSync is integration platform as a service. So iPaas, and it keeps data in sync between the two. So here’s one use case that Craig has implemented. And I’d recommend that people do implement it because I’m sure a lot of listeners actually use HubSpot and Xero and use PieSync to push your contacts in there. So Craig, tell us what you’ve done.

– All right, well, I’ve got a few screenshots in the show notes right, I’ll just walk through we’ve just created a custom contact property which is just yes, no, should we sync this contact to Xero? So we want HubSpot to be a source of truth. Anyway, so the custom property… And then I’ve got a screenshot on a contact, how we just turn that on, yes. And that of course just fades into an active list. Then we go over to PieSync and we sync contacts from that active list over to Xero. Now it’s a two-way sync, which means if it changes in Xero it gets synced back to HubSpot, but just to be clear, it’s not syncing back all the records from Xero back, it’s only the HubSpot ones in this list. So it’s really nice, that’s one of the things I really like about PieSync. I’m a PieSync convert by the way, thanks to you Ian, you’ve convinced me although I still i have to say i hate their password, this login thing. Have I winced about that enough? Anyway, it’s all right.

– Well Craig, you can use the login with your HubSpot ID or Google?

– Yeah, but not for a clients, managing clients.

– This is the thing with clients, correct.

– It’s not scalable. It’s not agency friendly, anyway, I used about

– Not yet. that last episode, folks. So if you wanna hear me rant on like an angry old man, you can listen to that, but this is really cool. And we’re gonna be using PieSync more and more. I think it’s such a wonderful tool.

– Now listeners, I do wanna give Craig some kudos the way he set this up, he has nicely organized it. And he has created some custom properties to do the sync. And you can even have a look in the notes. You’ll see he’s nicely even placed it on the contact screen in a separate section called PieSync Options. And he’s got a few different ones because he’s gonna, he’s trying to sync this to possibly Teamwork and to Google Contacts. And last episode, I spoke about syncing Office 365 contacts into here. So you’ve just done it really nicely, Craig and I want to say well done.

– Thank you.

– All right, Craig, now on to our next show, which is our HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week.

– Oh my goodness, when you showed me this. I’m like, “Yes, turn this on.” Talk about, it’s got AI, it’s all about AI and it must be good. It is actually.

– It’s full of goodness, Craig, it’s always getting better, isn’t it? It’s all about growing better? Anyway, so this is an option and you… This is probably turned on by default in your portal. It’s under the contact and companies setting and you’ll see it says automatically capture contact detail from emails with HubSpot AI. And what it does, it reads people’s signatures from their contacts, and will populate fields in the contact record. Now, here’s the thing, it’s turned on by default. Now what you need to do is you need to enable inbox automation under the settings in email integrations. And what this does is actually tells the system the AI, that it can read your inbox and capture details to populate those records and even create follow up tasks suggestions, which I thought was really interesting. So as it’s scanning it, it’s probably looking for things that indicate that there is some sort of follow up that’s needed and it’s gonna obviously give you the option to have a task there. So it’s really cool. I had this turned on and I thought, Oh, yeah, this is good. I couldn’t see anything happening. And then as I read further, I discovered that you need to have this inbox automation, which is in beta currently. And we’ve put links to the articles. But well worth the try. And I’m gonna see what’s happening.

– I’m really excited about this. When you showed me this, I thought, “Oh, wow, it’s totally… I didn’t even expect this kind of thing from HubSpot.” So I say this, “Oh, wow, that’s a great idea. Of course, they should do this.” Just be aware, folks, they have access to your inbox. So I know that’s not comfortable, for some people. I’ve given up any any pretense that nothing is privacy in my inbox of Google, I will use G Suite. So look, just be mindful of that. It will, of course, look into your inbox and through your emails, but I’m fine with that. I’m not saying everyone should be fine with it. And it’s also I guess, yeah, you trade off that lack of privacy for utility.

– All right, Craig HubSpot Stumper of the Week, and this is revisiting the form submission reports from episode 207 and we answered a question around how to display on the dashboard, a list of pop-up form submissions. And we had a follow-up question from Martin. So thank you for connecting with us, Martin. So I’m gonna read what Martin wrote on the LinkedIn post. And he said, “Hi, guys, quick question. It is my understanding that the property form submission changes each time that contact fills out a new form. Does the report look at the property, historical values? Or is it just showing the last value?” Now, Martin, there is no form submission property in a contact record there is the number of form submissions and the number of unique forms submitted. And if someone’s up to that, of email, so it’s a-

– You know what, he’s probably thinking of last conversion.

– Yes, last conversion.

– Now it’ll confuse him.

– But that’s a page it’s not a form, right? It’ll show you the page that they can be added on. So the answer is the form submissions listing in the report that we spoke about comes from a list of forms, not contact records and includes all form submissions and a single customer may have actually submitted multiple forms. And that’s why you see that. I hope this is clear, you probably need to take a step back and go and have a look at the show notes just to have a look and understand what’s going on. Now, Craig, we’ve got our HubSpot Gotcha of the Week.

– All right, speaking about HubSpot forms, but in another situation. Remember back in Episode 197… I feel like we were referring to previous episodes a lot this episode. So internal linking for the win there. But remember, we spoke about this in 197 when HubSpot added this new feature, which is great, by the way, where pop up forms don’t necessarily have to have a form.

– Correct.

– So you can just have this pop-up where you click and it’s just a button, it might go to a page or download for example. So it’s actually, it’s funny enough they call them, like HubSpot Non-form Pop-up Forms, which is interesting in itself. Anyway, as we noted at the time, when you see a list of those forms the submissions for these non-form pop-up forms will of course be Xero. And that’s a bit of a gotcha so just wanted to remind listeners about that. We’ve got a screenshot so you can see what we’re talking about. More importantly though, thanks to Tara she’s said, “Look, we’ve gotta get this fixed.” And we kind of expected it to be fixed by now. They would have changed the reporting. Possibly put a few more columns in that layout, but not yet. So Todd has created a community request please go and vote it up. I’m sure it’s on the roadmap. I’m sure they’ve got this in the works but this might just prompt it.

– But Craig, you know, I still love pop-up forms.

– Ah, I love them.

– Just the flexibility to target now is fantastic, and-

– Oh hide your targeting is a kill. Hey, we should link back to an episode we talked about that as well, it’s such a good feature.

– Alright, folks onto our Marketing Tip of the Week. And I know everybody and most people that listen to us would probably use Zoom. And you’ve probably seen every time you click on a Zoom meeting link, and it opens in Chrome, you get this pop up that says, “Do you wanna open Zoom?” And after a while, it gets really annoying. Anyway, thanks to Craig, he’s discovered a way to stop that from happening, if you’ve got a Mac. So follow the link and you can fix it.

– Yeah, there is a similar fix for Windows as well, just by the way to set some context around this. This changed in Chrome, I think 77 or 76, up until 75 and before you had this little option where you could tick to not be prompted each time they took that away for some reason. This is a way to get that back and fix it so you don’t get this annoying prompts. And it’s amazing how annoying these little pieces of friction are. And I remember when I showed you today I said, “Oh you know what I can fix that.” Yeah, it’s like the best news we’ve heard all day was from me when I found out as well, it’s the little things, I mean, isn’t it?

– That’s right, Craig. Now, listeners our Insight of the Week, and this is a cracker, let me give some context. We’ve called at Facebook as a “Bad Butcher”. And longtime listeners would actually recall we compared Facebook to cigarettes back in Episode 151 and that was in February of 2019. One of the podcasts we liked listening to which is called Craig?

– “Pivot.”

– That’s right, with Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway. And she’s used in her New York Times Opinion Column. She’s used a great analogy as Facebook as a “Bad Butcher.” Now, Craig, I’m gonna get you to read this because I think people have to hear this because one thing I really enjoyed was when you kinda picture or imagine what this is, and she’s hooked it really well to something that we would all potentially experience in our lives. It just makes it so real.

– She’s a storyteller. But by the way, I’ll set the context. This is around how Facebook is attempting to absolve themselves of any responsibility in looking after the content and potentially hate speech, et cetera, that is on their platform. And they or Mark Zuckerberg attempts to say, “Look, it’s not his responsibility.” Here’s what Kara Swisher says she says, “Think about Facebook as a seller of meat products. Most of the meat is produced by others and some of the cuts are delicious and uncontaminated, but tainted meat say, Trump steaks,” and I stick there, “also gets out the door in ever increasing amounts and without regulatory oversight. The argument from the head butcher i.e. Mark Zuckerberg is, ‘People should be free to eat rotten hamburger even if it wreaks havoc on their gastrointestinal tract, and the seller of the meat should not be the one to tell them which meat is good and which is bad. Even though the butcher can tell in most cases.’ Basically the message is,” she says, “That you should find the truth through vomiting and maybe even death.” “In this, Mr. Zuckerberg,” and I’m still quoting from her article, “is serving up a rancid meal. That he says he’s not comfortable cooking himself, even as his hands control every aspect of the operation. Which is why I say to him and every executive at Facebook, you cannot hold on to such enormous power and avoid responsibility, when things get tough.” End of quote. Your silence speaks volumes there Ian. It’s such a compelling analogy, isn’t it? And so simplistic in a way, overly simplistic. I wanted to make a comment about this because if you’d asked my view about this, say a month or two ago, I would have had a strong answer. However, I guess what I’ve realized and I won’t actually say what my view is now. ‘Cause that’s not the point. But the point is, my view is different and also it’s almost like I don’t have a view because I realize how complex the situation is. And so my takeaway, or my, I guess what I’m hoping and what the reason we’ve included in the show notes, in the show today, is because we need to be informed, but fought for and aiming for positive impact. And it’s very easy with this article of hers, which I think is fantastic representation. To be over simplistic and say, “Well, it’s obviously wrong.” And it’s okay to say that. But make sure you’ve thought it through fully. And I am actually at the point where I can see both sides. I won’t say which side I’m leaning on now. But I do hope listeners actually take this and think it through. It actually should be in, I guess, part of our decision. Should we be advertising on Facebook, for many businesses, you have no choice but to, but some have boycotted as we’d be aware of recently, but at least be thoughtful, that’s my request. And I guess, hopefully, we’re leading by example, be thoughtful marketers.

– All right onto our HubSpot Hidden Gem of the Week, Craig and this is my little discovery for this week is that you can now integrate Google Tag Manager into HubSpot. And it’s an option on the integrations tab within the settings and website. Now, here’s the caveat, you will still need to have Google Tag Manager Code for your blog templates like you did before. This applies to page and landing templates. So if you’re using HubSpot CMS, and you using MarketingPro, for example, that has landing pages in it, actually even starter, this is how you would do this.

– I think this is really good. I was so pleased when you showed me this today. And yeah, just to reiterate your point there. When you’re adding Google Analytics or Google Tag Manager in HubSpot, you’ve gotta do it in two places. If you’re using the blog as well put it in the blog template and in this case, put it on the pages. So it is a gotcha and we were going through portals today and there’s even some clients who got missed. So it could be a Gotcha of the Week but I’m really kinda seeing this… I’d love to see this just integrated straight through the blogs as well. I don’t see why we have to put it in two spots. Maybe that’s legacy, why do you think that is? Do you think that they’ll actually update that in time, Ian?

– I think they will Craig, as everything merges together. All right, so let’s talk about our Resource of the Week, Craig? And this is from Ben Thompson, who we speak about quite a bit. And he’s got a really interesting post about the future of TikTok and this is on Stratechery, indicating there’s a good case that can be made for it to be banned. And I was fascinated when you put this in the notes. And I was reading it and I was like, “Wow!”

– This is mandatory reading, I think for anyone in marketing and thinking about TikTok as we are, as you know, I’ve been addicted to TikTok lately. You’d be proud of me Ian, I actually deleted TikTok from my phone last week, but not because of security issues, which is what Ben’s article is referring to. I just deleted it ’cause I was wasting so much time. It’s such a good app, it’s so addictive, it’s so well done. It’s so addictive, the algorithm is so good, I just had to delete it because as you know, I’m not up, I’m hardly ever on Facebook or any of the other social networks, Instagram very rarely on LinkedIn sorry listeners for how long it takes for me to reply, but oh, TikTok just had me hooked. But his post is around the security aspects of TikTok. He actually looks into the China relationship. He actually has a really good point about China versus the West in terms of ideology, and where both are headed. I think it’s really compelling reading, you should read that. What’s also flows on from this and in fact, ’cause you know, there has been moments about America, the US might ban it and they might not and then Amazon did, and then they rolled it back. And of course, Walmart said, “No, it’s banned on Walmart, business devices.” And things like that, follow on phone. Remember, we talked about Benedict Evans back in 189,

– Yes.

– And his presentation on the next big thing, and the next big thing, Regulation, and this is what we’re heading to, and I think combine those two articles, read them and view them. And you get a sense of how technology is moving. And the future is gonna be very interesting place.

– You know what was funny, Craig, when you put that into the show notes, and I was, I got a message from a friend earlier today. And what was really interesting on Mumbrella, there was an ad… A write up about this, about TikTok running ads. I’m just looking at it while I’m talking to you listeners. And it says, “Don’t make TikTok a political football.” And it gives you the reasons why people need to trust them. And so here we are, listeners, them, you know, protecting their position. So I think it’s really important for us as business owners as marketers, to understand what’s going on with the tools and the platforms that we use and the impact it has on different people and nations essentially. So I would encourage you all if you’re driving or riding on the beach, and listening to us, when you get back to your desk, go back and check out the show notes and actually have a read of this article. All right, Craig, onto our Quote of the Week.

– This is advice from a book called “The Road Less Stupid”. I think we’ve mentioned this a few times on the show before by Keith Cunningham, wonderful business advice. He’s talking about strategy, and why you should start your thinking with strategic questions. He says, “Tactical sounds like, ‘What could we do to increase sales?’ Whereas strategic sounds like, ‘Why are our sales numbers not twice as big? What is the core obstacle preventing the doubling of our revenue?'” End of quote. Hopefully, that’s thought provoking. It’s just a change of perspective on how you start your thinking.

– Listeners, thank you for listening to this episode. Please follow us on the socials. Connect with us on LinkedIn. Please tell us that you listen to this show and thank you to those who have connected with us over the last week. It has been a great pleasure to connect with you guys. And again, if you need help with anything, please don’t feel afraid to reach out to us. Go to the website, complete a form. Or you can reach out via LinkedIn to Craig and myself. Craig Until next week?

– Catch you later Ian.

– Hey there thanks for listening to this episode of HubShots. To get the latest show notes, HubSpot tips and resources sign up at hubshots.com. You can also book time with us to help you grow better with HubSpot.

Episode 210 PieSync - the good, the bad, and the snugly

Episode 210: PieSync – the good, the bad, and the snugly

Welcome to HubShots Episode 210: PieSync – the good, the bad, and the snugly

This episode we discuss paying for content, plus dig into PieSync.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/episode-210-piesync-the-good-the-bad-and-the-snugly

Welcome to HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Recorded: Thursday 09 July 2020 | Published: Friday 17 July 2020

Shot 1: Growth Thought of the Week

Last episode we were chatting about the rise of trust in reputable news organisations. And how that had also led to a rise in email newsletter consumption from those same trusted sources.

As part of that discussion, we mentioned that there are some newsletters that we always read, and in some cases happily pay for. Below is a list of some of those newsletters and sites.

The newsletters we actually read:

News that Craig pays for

Which newsletters do you actually read? And what news/content do you happily pay for?

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week


PieSync is iPaaS (Integration Platform as a Service)

piesync 416


Difference between Zapier and PieSync:

Screenshot 9 7 20  3 53 pm

iPaaS gives you the flexibility to scale and grow better.

PieSync Fundamentals   Why PieSync Slides pdf  page 26 of 40

Use cases

  • Continuous syncing of contacts and companies
  • Syncing a subset of HubSpot contacts (eg key customers) over to my Google contacts
  • Syncing over customers to Xero

Good things

  • Sync continuously, compared to Zapier which is triggered
  • Very good interface and layout of connections and actions
  • Centralised billing with Teams
  • Very simple to create filtered sync

Bad things

  • Login process
  • Can’t share connections between team members
  • Contacts and companies only: No deals, tickets, other objects yet

Potential workarounds

  • Chat with the team – potentially organise access to client accounts on a case by case basis if you are a Certified Partner

Next steps: Get PieSync Certified over on HubSpot Academy and become a PieSync Partner.

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Syncing Office 365 and HubSpot

Keeping contacts in sync between Office 365 and HubSpot using PieSync

Shot 4: HubSpot Absorbing of the Week

PieSync Dogfooding

PieSync is using PieSync to keep their own stack all synchronised – they are their own best customer.

They are a good example of HubSpot letting an acquisition keep their own processes and slowly transition over to the HubSpot way of doing things.

Interesting tidbit: New connectors take almost a year to develop (46 weeks)

Shot 5: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

Messenger Contacts In HubSpot without Emails

Found that a Messenger chat in conversations inbox with a known contact could not associate itself. Why is that happening?  It is due to the Facebook API, whereby if the contact had signed up using their phone number for Facebook, and not their Email Address, HubSpot is unable to create the association to the email-address field existing in HubSpot.

As such, you’d need to merge the 2 contacts after the fact.

Shot 6: Marketing Tip of the Week

Review your traffic sources

Review your audiences – where is your traffic coming from?

Ian was digging into traffic data for a client and found that YouTube was sending a bunch of traffic. Digging into YouTube analytics highlighted that a single video was driving the bulk of the traffic.

The video was a simple video covering tradie workwear. The key realisation being that tradies don’t want to read a blog post about the product, they want to see a video of how it works.

Takeaway: they go to YouTube to learn more about products that they can buy for their use.

Shot 7: Insight of the Week

Campaign targeting versus Targeting for campaigns

If you are planning out enterprise campaigns it can be easy to focus on particular product/service campaigns, or industry verticals etc. This is normal. However, it is important to keep in mind the ideal audiences (personas) at the start of the process. As opposed to getting to the campaign implementation and then considering the targeting.

It’s about getting the balance of Persona versus Topic focus right.

One quick tactical way to keep ideas fresh is to prepare a simple Personas versus Pain Points matrix:

  Pain Point 1 Pain Point 2 Pain Point 3
Persona 1 Video Blog post  
Persona 2 Checklist Ebook  
Persona 3      

Have a list of your key personas, and then cross reference that with pain points. For each section, highlight the best content format to test eg:

  • For a ‘how to’ pain point, consider video
  • For a ‘what’s the process’ pain point, consider a checklist
  • For a ‘help me understand’ pain point, consider a blog post
  • For a ‘in depth understanding required’ pain point, consider and ebook

Use these to test out new content ideas.

Keep in mind how this also fits into an overarching ABM approach, where you’ll have different stakeholders and decision makers involved. Each will have different pain points and different personas.

A must-do: ABM lesson on HubSpot Academy

Shot 8: Resource of the Week

The Perfect B2B Website Service Page

A useful post from Andy at Orbit Media on how to plan out a service page on your website.

checklist anatomy service page

In particular notice the mix of short and long sections, confidence items and visuals.

Shot 9: Quote of the Week

“Groups search for consensus, Individuals search for truth”

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week

Google updates ‘How Google Search Works’

Google has updated their own knowledge base article on how Google works, you can read it here.

Barry Schwartz notes the sections that have changed in his article on Search Engine Roundtable.

Of interest might be this section on what you need to do to get your site crawled and indexed by Google:

“For smaller sites (less than 1,000 pages), making Google aware of only your homepage is all you need, provided that Google can reach all your other pages by following a path of links that start from your homepage.”

Shot 11: Follow Us on the Socials

Connect with HubShots here: HubShots YouTube channel – HubShots Spotify channel – HubShots Facebook group – HubShots Twitter – HubShots Instagram – HubShots LinkedIn

Connect with Ian Jacob on LinkedIn and Craig Bailey on LinkedIn

HubShots is produced by Christopher Mottram from Podcastily.

Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

Episode 210 PieSync - the good, the bad, and the snugly

Full Transcript of the Episode

– Hi everyone, welcome to HubShots episode 210. In this episode we discuss paying for content plus we dig into HubSpot PieSync. You’ll listen to Asia Pacific’s number one HubSpot focus podcast where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks and strategies for growing your sales, marketing and service results. My name is Ian Jack from Search and Refer and with me is Craig Belly from Zen Systems. How are you, Craig?

– I’m well. Ian and I’m feeling well read. You’ll remember last episode, we talked about the fact that we both subscribe to a few newsletters. That’s actually great as opposed to all hundreds of newsletters we’ve subscribed to but never read and also we actually pay for some content. So in our growth thought, let’s chat through some of the newsletters that we actually read in case our listeners would also be interested.

– That’s right. So, the first one is Marketing Brew and Morning Brew, should I say and they also have another one called Retail Brew. So I’m actually subscribed to all of those and I read them pretty much daily. Now some of them like Retail Brew, for example just comes once a week but Morning brew and Marketing brew is a daily newsletter.

– That’s right. I also read Mark Manson’s newsletter, now he’s not a marketer as such, although he’s a really good marketer. It’s kinda like Tim Ferriss and . Are they marketers, no but they’re really good at marketing. I really like Mark Manson. I think you read the CB Insights as well, don’t you?

– I do and we’ve got another one called Stacked Marketer, go the extra.

– In addition to these I just mentioned, I actually pay for news and so there’s some news that as I actually pay for, one of them is search news you can use by Marie Haynes. I think I pay $18 or $20 a month for that and the value it provides is a weekly newsletter, where she gives a roundup of all things SEO. And in 20 minutes or half an hour, I can be on top of everything that’s happened, so she trolls Twitter and Reddit threads and all those kind of things, pulls it all together. That’s very valuable to me to get that once a week and I stay informed. I also read Stratechary, Tech Bound and a few others. Are there any other? Do you actually pay for any news, Ian?

– To be honest Craig, no I don’t.

– Fair enough.

– But you know what, I think what you’ve highlighted a really good point. As time goes on and people’s inboxes get full, In saying that I don’t pay for content in that particular manner, I’m a part of masterminds that specialize in say, paid advertising or marketing and Google ads. And I’m a part of that and I pay for that on a monthly basis because again, like you said, there are people in there that are testing and doing things on a daily basis. And they on a monthly basis, provide insight into stuff that I might not necessary come across. So, I will actually learn from that, and then consume information that way. So it’s a bit different but kind of in the same manner.

– You’re basically happy to save time, ‘time is money’ as they say. Maybe it’s just ’cause I’m getting old, Ian. I’m happy to pay.

– We’re both getting old, Craig. Try to pull back some of that youth. Anyway, I have some marketing feature of the week. So Craig, firstly, well done for being one of the one and only PieSync certified partners in Australia, Craig.

– Yeah, well, thank you for putting me on to this. And that’s right. We’re going to talk about PieSync, today in a little bit of depth and we did cover this many episodes ago when it was first announced, I think last November. But you put me on to this recently, you reminded me of this Ian because I think you’re the first certified partner in Australia passing certification. And perhaps that’s news to people, they might not even realize this PieSync certification but we’ve got a link to it in the show notes. And really useful, this really was a useful way to learn about the platform and open my eyes and let’s chat about PieSync.

– That’s right. So listeners, PieSync is what you would call integration platform as a service or also known as I-PASS. Don’t they just love their acronyms? And really the difference is you might be thinking, hey, I know about Zapier, why would I use PieSync? So one of the really key differentiators between PieSync and Zapier is Zapier is trigger based. So something’s gotta take place for you to trigger an action that takes place beyond that. PieSync is a synchronization platform. So that’s where data is synced between the two platforms and the simplest manner of this would be syncing of contact data between two different platforms like HubSpot and Outlook for example. Of course, we couldn’t forget in there, on the in some of the training we had was that it says that I-PASS gives you the flexibility to scale and grow better.

– But that’s right. This was a key difference that’s worth while just repeating so that people don’t miss it. You’ve just covered it. But I thought, especially when it was first announced, I thought, PieSync that’s just HubSpot version of Zapier. Why would I use it? And you’ve highlighted it there. It’s synchronization not trigger based. So the key point, I know you just said this but I wanna repeat it for the listeners so that’s really clear because they’re two different products. And later on in the show, we’re actually gonna talk about PieSync ’cause you had a chat with one of the PieSync guys. And they still use Zapier for some of their things, where PieSync is not a fit. And in other cases, PieSync is a benefit. So it’s around the synchronization. So you’ve got two contacts, maybe a contact in Google Contacts, and a contact in HubSpot. That’s a really good example. You just want to keep them in sync. I change it on my phone, it goes back. I change it on HubSpot because now you don’t want to use Zapier for that because then you’ve got a trigger on something changing or on the specific field off digit changes, how do I catch it whereas PieSync is just like, okay, it’s made the connection, I’ll just make sure every couple of minutes they’re synced. It’s really powerful. So let’s actually go on to some of those use cases then.

– Okay, so the first one I said was syncing contacts and companies and you might do this across Office 365. You might do this across your Apple account because if you’re using Apple, you might use do it across Google. So these are the most common ones and actually talking to the PieSync guys, the most common syncs is actually between Google and Office 365. That’s the most common ones that are being utilized with PieSync and next one could be syncing a subset of HubSpot contacts. So key customers into Google Contacts because you can actually set the criteria you want to have sync.

– This is actually what I’m setting up at the moment. So I don’t want all our contacts from HubSpot. We’ve got 70,000 in our HubSpot portal. I don’t want all of them going over to Google Contacts and ending up in my phone but I do just want our key customers, so that if there’s a phone number update or anything like that, it’s synced between the two. And also, sometimes I’m on the phone and they’ll call me and I’ll say,” Ah, new number I didn’t recognize,” or add to existing contact, bang that goes in. Ah, synced back, it’s really nice.

– And here’s another one that people don’t wanna use. It’s syncing your customers from HubSpot over to Xero. So save that time of when you’re raising invoices to actually go. Okay, well, they become a customer, their contacts get synced then all that finance has to do is raise the invoice.

– This is such a pain point for us because HubSpot is our source of truth and then every time, that’s just kinda custom. Okay, someone’s gonna go and set that up in Xero. So this is gonna save us a lot of time. What’s so crazy about this is that Xero created an integration with HubSpot. Have you seen this in the app market?

– Yes.

– But it syncs from Xero over to HubSpot and not the other way. It’s like, “Come on, why?” Who on earth would first put it into Xero to then sync to HubSpot? Surely it will go the other way or maybe that’s just our case. But yeah, let’s talk about some of the good things.

– That’s right. So this is continuous thinking versus compared to Zapier that’s trigger based.

– Also the interface you know, I really like the PieSync interface now that I’ve got into it and just the way they’ve laid it out, you have a connection and then you can very easily see the filters on them, all on one page. And then the field mappings, can create your own field mapping. It’s very slick to use. Whereas Zapier, as you would know, it’s very kind of step one, step two and then you try and do something. One thing Zapier does have on some of their higher tiers that we use is calculated values. I don’t think PieSync has that but that’s that’s a bit of an outlier. We don’t use that a lot I have to say.

– Then another good thing it has is the centralized billing routines. So that’s a really good thing.

– I really like this. You can have a team of people in your account and just one centralized billing. Also, the simplicity to create these filtered syncs exactly about that use case we were talking before, from HubSpot to Google Contacts, any subset, any key customers. So they’re the good things. However, I think there’s some bad things, Ian. I know you don’t feel as strongly about this as me. So I’m gonna have a little bit of a rant and you’re kinda like, “Get over yourself, Craig” but…

– So I’ll let you take away the first one, Craig. The one that really greets you the most.

– This annoys me so much and look, credit to PieSync because I did chat with them and I’ve been going back and forth with one of the guys there. And they’ve been very nice about it. And does seem like I’m an unusual case but their login process. We talked about this back in our episode back in November, when it was first announced, this drives me nuts. They have this passwordless login. When where you got to log in you put in your email address, and then it emails you a code. Then you then have to go to your email, find it and put the code in into login. Now that’s fine if it’s just you. But we often look after accounts, especially with Zapier for our clients. So every single one of our clients has a Zapier account and then give us the login. We sorted LastPass securely so we can share it amongst our team to specific people as they need it. It’s all protected yet, we can’t even do that with PieSync ’cause then we have to go to the client, login or get this code. It’s just ridiculous and I just don’t understand it. And the other thing is we mentioned in the good things above that they’ve got this centralized billing. That’s great, I really like it. However, you can’t share connections between team members. So it’s almost like that passwordless login and can’t share connections with, it’s almost like they combative because if you could share connections between team members, then the passwordless login wouldn’t bother me. It’s like, okay, well I’ve got my login into the team account or share this connection. Okay, I can look after it, but you can’t. It’s just like so frustrating. I will say that those connections are purpose and it’s kinda good ’cause some people, I might connect to Xero, I might not want other people in team doing that.

– Then in saying that, Craig is that for example, you’re syncing contacts between HubSpot and let’s say Office 365 account. You have to connect to that person’s profile in 365. So you can kind of understand in that perspective, when syncing contacts it needs to be on a per user basis.

– Look, I agree with that and I’m not saying all connections should be shared but I’d like the option to share some connections between team members and maybe that’ll come I don’t know. And the thing is, and what we’ve got as a next step for PieSync is they’ve got this new PieSync certification, which we chatted about at the start of this segment, go and do it. But the fact that they’re building out a partner program, well to me, it means perhaps they are focusing more on teams than individuals. So maybe they’ll improve some of those login processes.

– And the other thing you can’t do with PieSync currently is, it only syncs contacts and companies, not deals, tickets and other objects. So just be aware of that. When you think,” I can go and sync everything.” No, that’s not the case. It’s really contacts and companies.

– Anything with an email address, pretty much. That’s what you wanna think about. It’s very focused around email addresses and–

– Correct.

– And that’s the gap they fit. So look, I’ve had a little bit of a rant there. However, I am a convert to this and I think we’re gonna be setting up PieSync accounts for all our clients as well. Just all the simple things like HubSpot to Mailchimp making that better or MailerLite, which is what we use for a number of clients as well and it syncs everything. So this is not just a trigger on an action, it’s syncing the client and things like unsubscribes, all of that. It’s just gonna keep it all in place. Yeah, you’ve, you’ve convinced me in PieSync. I’m a convert.

– Excellent. I would encourage people just to understand this better, do the PieSync certification. And one of the things obviously, if you are implementing this for others and you want to partner with PieSync, you can do that. And when you do that, you can organize access to client accounts with their permission on a case by case basis. So just be aware that that is available if you are a PieSync certified partner. All right, Craig, and I thought leading on from this to the HubSpot sales feature of the week. And this is something that we’ve just sold for not a potential customer of ours is that they wanted to have a centralized place where they have all of their contacts and so they have a lot of salespeople on the road and so they wanted to make sure that the contacts that were in HubSpot went into Office 365. And so we’ve actually set up PieSync to make sure that there’s context sync between the two. So when they’re on the road and they make a call, they’ve actually got the right details and that was actually relatively quick to set up but also works really well. So we’re actually seeing that data being synced across the two systems. So it’s a great way for sales to have all the data they need to make the calls that they need in a timely fashion. All right now, Craig, we’re gonna talk about the HubSpot absorption of the week.

– And this is PieSync DocuSign, which I’ve found interesting ’cause you’ve chatted with them and they highlighted it. First of all, they’re not an American company, two, they’re not a HubSpot company so they weren’t using HubSpot for the CRM and perhaps still aren’t. They weren’t using HubSpot meetings, for example. So even after I connected they sent me a link, join a chat. Here’s a Calendly link. So what’s really interesting about that they are moving over but HubSpot, I’ve really liked this. They haven’t kinda come inside, stopped doing everything you’re doing. Keep doing it your way. And one of the things that they’ve highlighted is while they use PieSync to sync a whole lot of their tools together, they also use Zapier, I think as far as you mentioned, for some of the things ’cause it’s a benefit for some people. They are just a perfect example of a company using their own product to run their own business. And with that in mind, it’s probably why the tool is so good and so easy to use.

– Correct, and I think they’ve taken a very similar approach to HubSpot, where they have built the tool because they had a need for it to connect systems together and keep data in sync and you see how HubSpot has done it over the years, how they’ve built CRM because they wanted a CRM that worked for them. And even the marketing tools, like you can just see, I think there’s a similar idea of culture there. That’s present, so that’s a really interesting thing. Now here’s a really interesting fact I picked up from my discussion with them because when you’re using PieSync or use Zapier, you think, “Wow, this is so good, it’s so quick, “I can get something off and running really quickly.” Behind the scenes to make this work really well, he was saying or they were mentioning to me a connector can take around 46 weeks to build, design, develop, do the requirements gathering. They said a lot of the time it’s actually not on the HubSpot side, it’s the other systems that they want to connect to that don’t have properly defined API’s or the connectors are not to the same standard as what HubSpot provides. Therefore, this is where a lot of the time gets taken in, in defining what’s going to move, how it should move, how often it should move and to get that right so it works seamlessly and that is one of the biggest things that they need to get right because there’s an initial sync that takes place, so establishing consistency. And then there is the ongoing syncing that takes place. So these are things that they need to get right and it’s very easy for us in our business to go, why isn’t that working, or it shouldn’t be that hard but really to make it that easy for us, it is that hard. And so I take my hat’s off to them because I know for a fact and you know. We have worked in software and sometimes things to make them work really well actually takes a lot of effort in the background to make that happen and make it seem simple. Alright people, now here’s our HubSpot Gotcha of the week. Now for those of you who are using Messenger, Facebook Messenger in HubSpot, you’ve gotta connect to the conversation’s inbox. Here’s a little gotcha. This week, I was doing it. I have connected it, testing it out with one of our customers and I thought, okay, I’m gonna test this out. So just tell them just message me. So I know that they exist in our CRM. Anyway, they started messaging me and this is going into conversations inbox, having a conversation. I’m looking at the contact. I’m like, yes, recognize contact. I’m like, I can’t associate this with the customer in my data in CRM and I didn’t understand why I tried to update it, I couldn’t. Anyway, I then finished the conversation and then I went to HubSpot support and I said, “Look, why is this happening? “Why have I got a new contact with the person’s name, “origination point being Messenger “and why can’t I associate it “with my existing customer that’s already in there?” This is what happened. They said it’s due to the Facebook API where the contact had signed up using their phone number for Facebook and not their email address. So HubSpot was unable to associate the email address field that existed in HubSpot. So essentially, create another contact. So in this scenario, what you needed to do was merge the two contacts together after the conversation and then you’ll have everything in the same contact but there’s a gotcha that I never knew about.

– So can I just check, you were able to tell that they wee the same based on their name? You happen to know their name?

– Correct.

– Yep, that makes sense. We actually have lots of Facebook Messenger contacts in and none of them have email addresses so, I didn’t even know you could do this and the thought of merging them I think that’s, I hadn’t even thought of that. I just assumed I would never get it. So that’s really good to know but let’s say they had signed up with an email address on Facebook, does that actually come through? How does that actually come through so that you can sync it?

– Apparently so–

– Or connected?

– No, I don’t know but that is what I’ve been told and maybe we need to test that.

– Okay, good one.

– There you go. I was actually about to delete the, I was thinking of deleting the contact of the association but actually then realized I should, like as HubSpot said was merge the two post the conversation.

– Did they come up in the merge list as suggested merge items that perhaps what users ?

– You know what? Maybe at the, ’cause I only tried it out this week, so that system I think runs on Sunday night when we get that. At least I’ll probably wait and I’ll see whether next Monday or Sunday I’ll get a notification saying that there’s a potentially duplicate there. All right, marketing tip of the week, Craig. Now, this is something that we were talking about this today is about reviewing our traffic sources and these are conversations we have with clients to understand where is our traffic coming from? And why I did this was, I was reviewing some data of a customer we’re helping and these guys sell work wear and as I was talking to one of my colleagues and they were talking about all the SEO strategy and the strategy around content, I found something really interesting. I saw this 200% increase in visits from YouTube and I was like, hang on a second. What’s going on here? There’s such a big increase all of a sudden. Anyway, I was digging into it and I really have worked out, who am I selling to? People that are buying work wear, most likely tradies, what are they doing? They’re not sitting around reading stuff. They like watching stuff. So I thought, okay and I tracked it back and I’d realize that the owner had created one video a year ago and that was the one video that was bringing in the traffic. I had this lightbulb moment and I thought, hang on a second, maybe we should just do a few more videos and drive more traffic instead of doing content. So what we did was we tried to understand, who we’re targeting and how are they consuming content and just let’s do more of that. Now, one of the really interesting things is, because I don’t directly talk to the customer, because it happens to be relationship that I have with a old university friend of mine. And so she goes, “Ah, he’s creating videos every week “and he puts them on Facebook “but he never put it onto YouTube.” And I did a bit of research. I’ve tried to find out who else was doing stuff like this. I found one guy that was doing it, had done some like a year or two years ago, not optimized so actually didn’t get a lot of traffic. They were actually pretty good videos to be honest. I don’t understand why he doesn’t keep doing it but it was really interesting. So I said look, there’s an opportunity for us. Let’s test this out as a way to get more traffic from the right audience that we need so that they can buy more stuff.

– I think that’s such a simple yet powerful. It’s powerfully simple. I know, it’s deeply powerful.

– Deeply powerful, right?

– Inside and just takes you back to the simple things because sometimes we overthink stuff, don’t we? And here you’ve gone back, you’ve just tracked it back and then if it, okay, this one particular piece of content, let’s do a bit more of that, you’ve done a bit of competitive research. It’s not saturated, there is still opportunity there. Okay, he’s actually producing the content, he’s doing on another platform. So this is just a very simple implementation channel update and it’s probably gonna return very powerful results.

– Now leading on from there, Craig our inside of the week was driving right on from that and this is something really interesting that you highlighted.

– All right, so switching gears, so not tradies but this is more in the enterprise space. It’s around campaign targeting versus targeting for campaigns. I’ll explain what I mean by that, because when you’re building enterprise campaigns, it can be very easy to just focus on a particular product or service, you build out your campaign schedule for the year and go, in July, we’re gonna do this and it’s focusing on this product and that. And so what happens is you start with the messaging first or the product or the promotion idea, the topic first, then you drive down, then you go, okay, and then as part of that, somewhere along the line, you kinda say, okay, well, he’s targeting, who are we gonna target and that might affect the ads and that’s perfectly fine. That’s actually a pretty normal way to work. However, the flip side which you also have to keep in balance, is you need to start with the persona first, the targeting first and then drive into the campaigns. So that’s just basically a reminder that it’s about getting this balance of persona versus topic. Focus, right, getting that mix right and in our particular case with a client, I won’t mention who they are but enterprise space, all these campaigns underway and we’re kinda like, ah. Maybe we should tweak the messaging based on current climate and work from home and this, we actually have to take a step back and say, oh, hang on, we’ve actually got so far down in the weeds of this particular campaign, we’re actually starting to lose sight of our persona. So let’s take it all back, start with the persona again and then just check which campaigns we want to run. So it’s a flip. One of the quick tactical ways to keep ideas fresh and you highlighted this to me, was the persona versus pain points matrix. Got a very simple table in the show notes and basically down one side, you say your personas and then across the top, you got your pain points and then in the matrix segments or slots, you talk about the particular content that you’re gonna do in each. So if a pain point for example is a how to pain point, well, maybe it’s a video. If it’s a what’s the process pain point, it’s a checklist and we’ve got a few others in there, examples as well, don’t we Ian?

– Correct and then if it’s helped me understand pain point, that could be a blog post. And if it’s in depth understanding that they require then maybe an e-book could address that. Now why I wanted to highlight this, in order to give a shout out to one of our listeners was when I was training their team, I actually saw their three personas stuck on the wall and when they came up against about what do we give people, it was really easy because I looked up on the wall, and I kinda saw, here are their pain points and I said, “Oh, let me just pick one thing “from this persona and one thing from this persona “who you’re talking to and let’s address that.” So I said, maybe that’s a video, maybe you need to actually create a video so you can get in front of them appropriately to solve their pain point. And it just became so evidently clear and one of the things that actually sparked from that was, I think, oh, we need to actually update that but you know one thing that I really liked was it was front and center. So as they were making their calls, as they were doing their marketing activity, they could see these personas in front of them. And so I encourage people, think about if you’re in sales in and marketing, stick the persona of that person in front of you as you’re making your calls and doing your daily work might actually help you. Now with that in mind, I wanted to talk about the overarching account based marketing approach that we’ve talked about many times where you have different stakeholders, decision makers involved and it’s really important to understand your personas in there, like who is an influencer? Who is a blocker? Who holds the money in the deal? Who is someone who is championing the deal, for example? And in saying that, one of the really key things I discovered while doing some, the lesson, ABM lesson in HubSpot Academy was one of the things they say is that, with ABM, it’s actually more important to have a marketer and a salesperson, like a tactical team. And to start off with just one salesperson, one marketing person and understanding who the companies are, who the people are and so you can target them appropriately. And one really interesting stat was one marketer could support up to 10 salespeople and then once you get beyond 10, it’s worth adding another marketer and then splitting up and then growing it again. But it really highlighted to me how important it was for sales and marketing to work cohesively together to make this strategy work because the messaging and how you talk to each of the individuals within the account based marketing approach was so critical to the outcome of getting a great outcome versus a mediocre outcome. Craig, you had a great cracker of a resource.

– All right, so this is from Orbit Media and thanks to Andy over at Orbit Media, the perfect B2B websites service page, we’ve got a image screenshot in the show notes. Check that out, really useful layout. If you’ve got a service offering, here’s the main layout of the page. Just go and check out the article.

– Now, Craig, what’s that our quote of the week? I actually love this quote.

– Yeah, this is from . I love his thinking. I follow him on Twitter and listen to his podcast. He said, “Groups search for consensus, “individuals search for truth,” that’s the quote. That’s actually the heading of the blog post titled, “The Blog Post” can’t read it for the full picture as explains it but I really like this ’cause I’m not a fan of group think. I think it’s often the blind leading the blind and you’ll see these groups of very well meaning people jump in and give opinions that are ill informed but perhaps persuasively delivered and ultimately dangerous, I feel. So find experts and search for the truth. Well, listeners, thank you for listening to this episode. Please follow us on the socials. Also, please connect with Craig and myself on LinkedIn and say you listened to the show, we’d love to connect with you and start a conversation. We have been really enjoying all the people that have connected with us over the last three months and just getting to know you guys. It’s been such a pleasure to to know that there are so many good people out there doing great things. I encourage everybody that listens, continue to do good, continue to help one another. And Craig, until next time.

– Catch you later, Ian.

– Thank you for listening to this episode of HubShots. For show notes, resources, HubSpot news, including practical strategies you can implement, visit us at HubShots.com

Episode 209: Email Features, Trends and Personalisation  

Episode 209: Email Features, Trends and Personalisation  

Welcome to HubShots Episode 209: Email Features, Trends and Personalisation

This episode we discuss email features, trends and personalisation along with the importance of testing quickly.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/209-email-features-trends-and-personalisation

Welcome to HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Recorded: Thursday 02 July 2020 | Published: Friday 10 July 2020

Shot 1: Growth Thought of the Week

Trust In News Sources

Reuters has released a comprehensive report covering digital news consumption during the coronavirus crisis. A clear trend is the growing trust in reputable news organisations along with a growing distrust in other channels including social media, messaging and YouTube:

reuters trust sources

Some interesting behaviours:

  • Paid news subscriptions have grown for the top news brands eg NYT, Washington Post
  • Scientists and doctors have (by far) the most trust, followed by national health organisations
  • Consumption of email newsletters from trusted new organisation has grown

Later in the show we dive into how this can impact your email newsletter strategy.

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Drag and Drop Email Editor Improvements

The email editor continues to improve, this time with a simple way to save existing emails as a template.

We’ve had clients asking for this – previously we advised them to create the email and use a naming convention to mark it as a pseudo-template. This update fixes that issue.

hubspot save email as template

Shoutout to Shane who has been hanging out for this!

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Adding Personalisation and Email Signatures to Emails

Personalising the one email to go from each person on the sales team including their signature.

  1. You need to make sure that every salesperson has their signature setup in HubSpot under Profile & Preferences

User Preferences   HubSpot 4

  1. Then to set it in the marketing email make sure you use the following personalisation token:

Edit Email    From Sales Team  Take advantage of the  150k  plain  2

Or using any of the following:

Edit Email    From Sales Team  Take advantage of the  150k  plain  1

Then make sure the from email and name is set as follows:

Edit Email    From Sales Team  Take advantage of the  150k  plain

Shot 4: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

Sudden increase in soft bounces when sending emails

Starting in May one of our clients suddenly started having email deliverability problems – the percentage of soft bounces for an email send were suddenly over 30% – see the example below:

hubspot email stats 1

Turns out this was due to their sending domain not being authenticated:

hubspot softbounce email error 1

We’re investigating this with HubSpot Support and the customer’s IT team to see if there has been any significant changes in the last two months. We’ve re-started the email sending domain authentication process for this domain again to see if that fixes it.

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

Test Marketing Ideas Quickly

Action beats perfection.

It can be easy to fall into the trap of thinking you need to build out an entire idea before you put it in market. Recently one client went through the process of building out an entire Shopify store in order to test whether there was the demand for purchasing online – and it never went live because they wanted to get everything in place first. However, they accidentally left it available (unfinished) on one page, and found that people were attempting to purchase. And now they are frantically trying to get it finished – months later.

They would have been better off testing the idea with a simple button to check if anyone was interested in buying. And if that did get a response, then they’d know to put effort into it.

Here is the data that highlighted they need to get this going:

Deals 2

Another example where testing would have been better – another client built out a full Chinese language version of a contact & landing page because they thought there would be demand – but there wasn’t. It would have been quicker to offer a Chinese CTA to test whether there was interest.

Shot 6: Insight of the Week

Email Behaviour Trends

As we alluded to at the start of the show, there is now a growing consumption of news (from trusted sources) via email.

Which in turn means there’s even more competition for your inbox attention.

Email (like most content) can be broadly categorised as:

  • Educational
  • Entertainment
  • Promotional

Be clear on what goal each of your specific emails has. The best emails can combine all three, but this is very difficult to do.

Currently, there is a thirst for actionable, valuable news.

Shot 7: Resource of the Week

Is Click Fraud devouring your Ad budget?

An insightful post from Conversion XL covering all the ways click fraud can be impacting your paid ad spend.

Worth checking, but also be mindful that it may not be as big an issue depending on your industry – Google Ads is very good at identifying fraudulent clicks.

Shot 8: Quote of the Week

“Great leaders absorb uncertainty and pass down clarity”

– JD Sherman (via Brian Halligan tweet)

Shot 9: Bonus Links of the Week

User Onboarding Examples



Shot 10: Follow Us on the Socials

Connect with HubShots here: HubShots YouTube channel – HubShots Spotify channel – HubShots Facebook group – HubShots Twitter – HubShots Instagram – HubShots LinkedIn

Connect with Ian Jacob on LinkedIn and Craig Bailey on LinkedIn

HubShots is produced by Christopher Mottram from Podcastily.

Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

Episode 209 Email Features, Trends and Personalisation

Full Transcript of the Episode

– Hi everyone, welcome to “HubShots” Episode 209. In this episode we discuss email features, trends and personalization, along with the importance of testing quickly, you listen to Asia Pacific’s number one HubSpot focus podcast where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks, features and strategies for growing your sales and marketing and service results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. How are you Craig.

– I’m really well and back for another week. I think some fascinating insights into news coming up in Growth Thought of the Week and particularly how they relate to email. And then of course, we’ll dive into improvements in HubSpot email and also some gotchas and tips and tricks.

– Fantastic, so Growth Thought of the Week Craig, “Trust in news sources.” This was a report that Reuters have put out, it’s quite a comprehensive report, and it’s covering digital news consumption in particular during this Coronavirus crisis. One of the things that it highlight is, is there’s a growing trust in reputable news organizations. And that’s along with a growing distrust in other channels, including social media, messaging and YouTube. We’ve got a screenshot from the report there. And you can see that news organizations, number four in terms of the trust factor, scientists and doctors are number one, global health organizations, number three, social media, Facebook and Twitter right down the bottom. Why would we be highlighting this at the moment? Well, a few things that come out of this some interesting behaviors, paid new subscriptions have grown. So this is people paying for news. However, it’s very skewed just towards the reputable brands, New York Times, Washington Post in particular, been two that have worked well. In Australia, we have the ABC News, which is the most trustworthy by far media brands, worth mentioning to our American listeners the ABC in Australia, is Australian Broadcasting Corporation a lot different to the ABC in America. So they’re totally different. The thing that’s come out of this, and what’s led us to putting this in the Growth Thought of the Week, these reputable news organizations and publications have ramped up their use of email newsletters. And what this report is highlighting is that people are consuming news from reputable brands and that’s affecting their behaviors in terms of email consumption. So later on in Shot six or seven in Insight of the Week, we’re gonna talk about the types of newsletters that are working and which ones you should be focusing on. So it’s coming up after we actually talk about some of the email features that have been coming out in HubSpot.

– Now Craig, I wanted to highlight in this was that scientists and doctors, by far have the most trust and even national health organizations which is really interesting, given what we’ve, we’re going through and what we have been through. So that’s a really interesting statistics. There’s a little insight into if you’re in the medical professional, now’s a really good time for you to start doing something around, maybe communicating with people that your audience essentially.

– And we’ll cover that later in the show, the type of content you should be actually talking about in your newsletters. The consumption behavior is very clearly talking about educational content. And we’ll talk about the types of content that you use in email newsletters.

– And now we’re gonna talk about, Marketing Feature of the Week and we’re gonna highlight the drag and drop email editor improvements.

– I saw this nice little thing pop up when that was talking about you can now save existing emails as a template. Nice little feature. And why I thought we’d mentioned this is because we’ve actually had clients asking for this. I think may get used to it in MailChimp and other tools, and they’re like, “Oh, okay, so I’ve created this drag and drop email. “How do I save it as a template? “Where’s the save email? “Where’s the template?” And they’ve been like, “Yeah doesn’t have it.” In fact, what we’ve advised today is just be like, create it and just name it and use a naming convention and you actually name the email template. We’ve actually had clients do that. Well now, thankfully, you no longer have to do that, because we’ve got this new little feature called save emails template, got to screenshot, and there’s a nice knowledge base article as well. And I just wanted to give a quick shout out to Shane, you know who you are. Shane, ’cause you’ve been hanging out for this, it’s now there.

– All right, Craig. And now lead onto our HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week and this is about adding personalization and email signatures to emails. And we do this quite regularly on behalf of sales team is sending out say product updates, product information that go directly from the salesperson that those people have a relationship with. So I’m gonna highlight two, three key things that we do and the first one is make it feel like a one on one email. Some including that person’s signature in the email, the first thing you need to make sure you do, which not a lot of people do do when they set their account up is to go to profile and preferences and set up your email signature. That’s the first thing. Once you’ve done that, you will then be able to select a personalization token when you create the email. And it’s not readily apparent because you might be looking for something to do with signature. But really, what you need to do is for the signature to appear, you’ve gotta choose the contact token as the contact owner. When you do that, you’ll get shown different options and then you use the user property which is signature. Now in there, there are other options as well. So example, a common one is that people might include the meetings link. So that’s another way to put this into the email that’s going out, if you want them to book a meeting. The third one is in the email settings. The from name and the from address can be personalization tokens from the contact owner. So in the screenshot, you will see it says owner dot full name and owner dot email. And that will pull who the owner is from HubSpot. And if you get these three things, right, you will have great success with your emails, they’d go out on behalf of the sales people in your business. And a bonus here. If you’re using a professional enterprise, you can actually add smart rules to your subject lines. And so in this notes, you’ll see a screenshot of a default subject line and then a subject lines specifically for customers that are in that lifecycle stage. There you have it.

– They’re really good tips and good features and not often used, for example, that smart rules for changing subject lines, I was looking at that and I was wondering, “Oh wow, that’s fantastic.” And you said to me, “It’s been there for ages.” I hadn’t even realized so I don’t think I’ve ever used it, I’ve used personalization in email subject lines, but I hadn’t used actually smart roles in the subject line. So an excellent tip there.

– All right, Craig onto HubSpot Gotcha of the Week. And this is also to do with email. And it’s something that you were showing me in one of your client portals is the sudden increase of soft bounces when sending email.

– Yes, this kinda caught us by surprise. This is a longtime client. We’ve been sending emails their newsletters for well, years. And all of a sudden in May, that’s just the last two months May and June, suddenly getting an extraordinary high number of bounces. And these are soft bounces, got a screenshot from a recent send and 33% of the contacts bounced. And then if we drill, we started drilling into them going, “What’s going on?” And you can see again, we’ve got a screenshot, and there’s this DMARC error D-M-A-R-C error that is to do with authorization on the email. So email authentication, not being made, and then for the email getting bounced by the recipient email server. So this has just started happening and we’re not exactly sure why. And we are investigating this with HubSpot support and our customers’ IT team. So far it doesn’t seem as though they had made any changes. It’s not like they use, switched email servers or anything like that, that might have affect their domains. What we’ve done is we’ve actually gone through and we’ve restarting the whole email sending the main authentication page with DNS settings or removing them, resetting them, to see if that fixes it, but just a very strange thing. Now, googling it doesn’t look like a lot of people had this issue. So I don’t think it’s a HubSpot issue. But I think it’s just to do with the amount of email going around at the moment. I don’t know if it’s related, in fact, I’m sure it’s not related. But did you see recently that Gmail spam filters had a whole outage the other day and there was all this spam, there’s all this kinda thing. And then we’ve seen all these massive, almost like email denial of service attacks going on just in the last couple of weeks, so maybe a whole lot of email recipient, exchanges are clamping down. It’s getting tougher. I’m not exactly sure. But the point of this is, “Listeners, “please go and check all those.” Checking the bounce rate isn’t something that you think to do normally, you look at things like open rate, and you go, “Oh, yeah.” But if you’re not checking actually how many successful deliveries there are, you might easily miss this. So just a reminder to go through and check those out. And we’re actually going through all our customer portals. And now this has become one of our normal processes. Every email that gets sent out, a typical process now we now go and check the bounces. Just because we got lucks on it, we’ve had effortless and really good delivery for so long. We’re just like, “Oh yeah. “Just seemed normal.” So just a reminder that things change.

– And listeners, just make sure that soft bounces are generally something like what Craig was talking about is rules changing and authorization changing. Another thing could be someone’s mailbox is full. So if you’re delivering especially to somebody that has a Hotmail, Gmail or even they’ve got a limit on their work email inbox, if it’s full it’ll bounce. So that’s the other thing. Here’s a tip for hard bounces, you can go and easily create a list from those people that have had bounce and understand why they’ve had bounce. And what we tend to do is from that list we will create individual contact views for people instead own that contact in sales, to actually follow them up and find out. Generally people have moved on and that email is no longer valid, but it actually gives us the opportunity to update the contact, or in certain government departments or councils that in Australia, they’ll have a policy where they’ll say, automatic response will go back and say, “This person is no longer here. “And this is the contact of the new person.” So this is a really good way to keep your contact database clean and up to date.

– All right, Craig our Marketing Tip of the Week.

– Yes, this is about testing measure, but test and measure quickly. And you were telling me before we started recording this interesting story about one of your clients, how they put off going live with something, because they wanted to make it perfect, basically, but what they should have done it’s just quickly tested it. And you’ve got two examples talk us through them. The first one especially was a fascinating example of opportunity.

– Correct, now here’s one customer had an opportunity to actually sell one of their products online. And when everything started recently, we said, “Okay, well, we can quickly set up a shop in Shopify, “and you’ve only got like a hand, “literally a handful of products that you will sell.” We can get that set up, we can then embed it on your HubSpot site, and you can get someone to complete the transaction. Shopify surprisingly has a really good way of doing what they call a simple Buy Button. So setting up the shop, putting the products in and then embedding some code on the page. And everything will take place using the Shopify back-end, and gives a pretty seamless experience, if you wanna do things really quickly. So that’s essentially what we set up. They entered, “Oh I wanna see how this looks like “in this view in that view.” And so I embedded a few different products in different views on different pages. And I said, “I’ll have a look at this “test it out yourselves and figure out, “will this be sufficient to go with.” Anyway, then we sell the whole conversation of, “Oh we need to do this. “We need to find these pictures, “we need the shipping policy. “What happens when returns happen?” And now we’re overthinking the whole process. Now, weeks have gone by, things have happened. I’ve taken down some of them, one of them I happen to leave up accidentally. And what happened last week was someone got a notification that they tried to check out. And they’ve now ended up as a contact in the database. And they essentially go, “We never got notified about this.” And this is what triggered the whole conversation. So they found, they tracked back and they go, “Oh,” Then they looked, when you connect Shopify and HubSpot, you’ll automatically get a E-commerce pipeline that gets created and the stages that a sale would go through. They discovered in the abandoned checkout, in the time since we’ve had this has been $4,000 worth of sales that have been abandoned. Some of them have from testing. But a lot of them are not, because if you look at the timeline of when things are happening. So first, it was like, “Can you please make sure “this product is off,” and the next email two minutes, I was like, “Hang on, we need to get this going “really quickly, because we’re missing out on sales.” What I’m encouraging people to is even before you even set up Shopify, you could have actually set up a simple call to action to say buy this online and just measure the number of people that click there as a first indicator to then implement a shop. So that was the first example.

– Actually, can I make a few comments on that? Because I really want to ram this idea home from people because the problem here is they wanted to get it perfect. And because that took time I kept putting it off. And it’s taking months. And I and I will put that on the back burner ’cause we’ve got to get it all right. And so they’ve wasted all of this time. Unfortunately, they got this notification. And now they quickly, “Ah, get it in place,” because they have effectively tested it now and confirm there’s demand. And I’m guessing it’ll take what a couple of days to get this in place and working all those things. So taking months of stuffing around ’cause they wanted to get it right. And what you’re saying is they should have just tested it. They could have tested it months ago, put a button “Oh yeah, there is demand, great,” and then spend a few days getting it all in line. Ben said they’ve wasted months, and now there is demand. So your point is action beats perfection, test those ideas quickly. Because on the other hand, say that no one clicked any of those buttons. “Well, okay, there isn’t demand. “So don’t even waste your time setting up Shopify.” But your second example is actually example of that latter case, isn’t it where they shouldn’t do something.

– Correct, and this is another customer of ours that had somebody on their sales team that is a fluent Chinese speaker and he thought, “Oh, there’s a market here “to sell to Chinese people.” They’ve gone to the whole processing, translated a whole page into Chinese about who the business is. They have then created the contact forms. We’ve done a whole lot of work around, making sure the menus are correct, that the contact in Chinese is correct. We’ve got the follow ups. Anyway, we do all of that stuff. And then I was about to say, “Hang on, do we know this is gonna work?” Four to six weeks down the track, we have discovered that there has been a zero inquiry from people using this Chinese page. So I would then say is that, I could have solved this problem by putting, maybe putting another CTA in Chinese to figure out do Chinese people actually want to A, use their product and B, inquiring this manner without having to actually do the whole process of all the translation and spending all that time doing it. Another example of saving yourself heartache. All right Craig, Insight of the Week, email behavior trends.

– Alright, so we flagged this at the start of the show. And this comes from the Reuters report that we were talking about, and the fact that news organizations, accelerating the use of email newsletters, and you would know if you’re a subscriber to any of these, I’m a subscriber to The Washington Post, for example, you can go in and get choose to get newsletters daily, weekly, all kinds of things. That’s been really worth it for those brands. But here’s the thing, we often talk about content being one of three types, it can be educational, that’s utility, it can be entertaining. So it’s more of a leisure piece. And then it’s promotional, there’s a sales aspect. And so whether it’s content, whether that’s email, whether it’s site content, blog pages, even videos, you do all those kind of things. It’s normally one of those three, and if you’re particularly talented, you can wave all three into an email and so you’ve probably experienced this, you have an email, it is very informative, gives you information you feel that’s valuable. There’s a bit of humor and say some entertainment as well. And then there’s a call to action to maybe buy something. When it’s done well, it can be very effective. However, based on the current crisis we’ve been through, and this is what the writers literally are showing the pushed educational content and news content, high value news content has increased because it runs 24/7, just looking for more news on COVID, it’s affecting behaviors that seeping into behaviors with other topics and this is business emails, products that you, people want trusted educational contents or information. So what we’re talking with our clients and perhaps listeners, this will apply to you, your mileage may vary depending on your industry and of course, a whole bunch of other factors but if you’ve got an email newsletter, and perhaps in the past you used to just have a curation pace and slap together a few links and not really put high value that’s not gonna get the cut through because while news letters with educational content have increased, that’s been at the expense of the what we’ll call the lazier newsletter. So we’re really looking to make this high value. And here’s the way to test, If you’re talking about a product, say for example, as if we were talking about HubSpot, if I was to send out a newsletter that just regurgitated news links that you could get from the product blog, or something like that, it’s probably not gonna be high value. But if we put our own spin on it, and add our own insights to it, so it’s still high value, and is informative, has our voice, the real test is could they get that content anywhere else? If they could, then yours isn’t unique. So think about that, particularly around educational content, and how you can provide high value especially during these times to your audience.

– Now, Craig, one of the email news that we love that probably encompasses all of this is Morning Brew. And I think listeners you’ve heard us talk about this a lot of times.

– Morning Brew and Marketing Brew, do you get the Marketing Brew?

– I do, and I even get the Retail Brew? Did you hear that?

– Oh, no, I didn’t know there was a Retail Brew. I have to check that one out.

– Yeah, that’s really good. I actually enjoy reading that, that’s not as frequent but a good read, nonetheless.

– You know what we should do next time, I remember a couple years ago, we talked about the newsletters that we did subscribe to. We should put that list up again, because there’s a few I do, I subscribe to and pay for it. There’s actually paid newsletters. I’m actually very happy to pay for good quality content. I just don’t have time for all the noise that people have to insert in order to sustain, I guess the time that they do so. I have a few but there SEO Marketing ones I happily pay because they give me value and they save me time.

– All right, Craig, we have our Resource of the Week and this is probably really interesting to people that are doing paid advertising. And an insightful post on conversion Excel, again, we speak about quite a lot. And is click fraud, devouring your ad budget? So covering ways that click fraud can be impacting your paid ad spend. And it’s worth checking out and be mindful that this may be happening in your industry. And also be understanding that Google is very good at identifying fraudulent clicks.

– I think this is right. It’s a really good article and opened my eyes. And then I went looking for tools. And of course, there’s so many tools on the market these days that will help you avoid click fraud, and they all work differently. And so it was quite insightful for me to find out how they do all these things. But yeah, then we’re chatting on some of the members groups I’m on. And some of the experts in Google Ads and former Google Ads engineers and they say fraudulent clicks is one of the things they spent a lot of time trying to crack down on. And we’ve had this in some accounts where we look in, ’cause there’s actually a column that Google Ads will show you where they, what do they call it? I don’t think it’s called fraudulent clicks, it’s like refunded clicks or something like that.

– Correct, you actually see a refund on your bill.

– Yeah,

– Based on that.

– Where they highlight all the clicks that they found that were fraudulent and they yeah, they don’t charge you for them. So that’s good.

– All right, on to our Quote of the Week, Craig. It’s a great friend from JD Sherman.

– Yeah, Brian Halligan tweeted this, and here’s the quote, “Great leaders absorb uncertainty and pass down clarity.” How good is that? That is leadership right there, absorb uncertainty and pass down clarity. Thanks, JD

– All right. We’ve got a few Bonus Links in the show. So we encourage you to check it out. One is about industry deep dive and it’s a HubSpot report. And the other one is, from a cycle really good UX about user onboarding. Listeners again, thank you for listening. Please connect with us on LinkedIn and leave a note saying you listen to this show, and connect with us on the socials. And we know, you can subscribe and have this delivered to your inbox every week. So go to hubshots.com and subscribe and you’ll be notified every time our episode goes live. Well Craig, until next time.

– Catch you later, Ian.

– [Narrator] Hey there thanks for listening to this episode of HubShots. For shot notes and the latest HubSpot news and tips, please visit us at hubshots.com.