Episode 179

Episode 179: Quick HubSpot Conversations tip, Duplicate content considerations

Welcome to Episode 197 of Hubshots!

HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

This episode we chat about how HubSpot Conversations saves you time, plus testing emails in HubSpot.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/episode-179-quick-hubspot-conversations-tip-duplicate-content-considerations/

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD3Uo4X-IxPJLE8ygPDQhNQ

Subscribe to our Spotify channel here: https://open.spotify.com/show/7oee8w41riN5aRNrLKT2ar

Join the Facebook group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/hubshots/

Follow us on Twitter here: https://twitter.com/hubshots

Follow us on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/hubshotspodcast/

Follow us on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hubshots/

Recorded: Wednesday 23 October 2019 | Published: Friday 8 November 2019

Shot 1: Growth Thought of the Week

Building a moat

For HubSpot, their key side-differentiators (ie separate to the product) are:

  • High-quality support
  • HubSpot Academy

Sure, lots of companies have good support (eg WP Engine, Amazon), so that’s not a moat on its own.

The HubSpot Academy, on the other hand, is a significant moat that very few companies come close to, and the gap is widening every day. Soon it will be impossible for any competitors to stand a chance of getting near them.

In terms of product – having quality through the product suite is very hard to reach as well.

How many products do you slot into multiple parts of your business (ie like a suite should do)?


g2 hubspot

Image from here:


Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Email testing tools within HubSpot.  You realise what you don’t have until you are using other systems!

Edit Email   Test

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Sales Training

Sales professionals with three to four years of selling experience spend 50% more time on training than those with two years or less and 110% as those with five years or more — probably because rookies aren’t sure if they’re going to stay in sales and veterans don’t believe they need to develop further.

The Power of Content in Sales

Frictionless Sale Certification

Shot 4: HubSpot Service Feature of the Week

Using Conversations to reduce your workload

We get a lot of outreach emails to our sites, which are often just wasting our time.

They all tend to use sequence-based tools so we get multiple follow-ups.

One of the useful features of Conversations is you can just Block the sender, or Mark as spam and then any follow up are automatically ‘filtered’ so you never see them.

Inbox 1

Here’s 522 conversations that we’ve been able to avoid:

Inbox 2

Save time!

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

Keeping email deliverability good and the effort these guys have gone to make sure you get their emails!


We re Upgrading  Add Us to Your Safe Senders List   ian jacob searchandbefound com au   Search   Be Found Mail

Action: What are you doing regularly to ensure people are getting your emails?

Shot 6: Insight of the Week

Thinking through Duplicate Content in Google’s eyes

Key point: there’s no duplicate content penalty, instead there is content filtering.





Focus on making your content as useful as possible for a visitor.

If the content is repeated on your site but in a way that is useful to visitors, then chances are Google will understand that.

If you have content that is also used on other sites (eg especially common on eCommerce sites) then Google will surface the version that is most useful to the person searching.

A simple example: Consider a car dealership eg Hyundai

Most of the content around car models will be exactly the same on all of the sites, similarly with service and finance options.

But none of these sites are penalised.

Instead Google will show the most relevant site to a person searching eg location will be a big factor, as well as previous viewing history, the device they are on etc.

Shot 7: Podcast of the Week

Akimbo by Seth and the episode about Friction!


Friction   Akimbo  A Podcast from Seth Godin   Overcast

Shot 8: Resource of the Week

PPC Trends for 2020

(yes the 2020 posts have started already!)


Key points:

  • Automation of your advertising
  • AI (of course!)
  • Video ads (eg Google’s Bumper Machine)
  • Responsive search ads become the norm

Shot 9: Quote of the Week

“Let’s not confuse getting better at stuff with being a better person. One is a much bigger priority than the other.”

October 22 in The Daily Stoic

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week

Competitor analysis process


Audience segmentation


Redirects before and after a site update:


The Disrupter CMO:


Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.
Episode 179

– Hi, everyone, welcome to Hubshots episode 197. In this episode, we share our Hubspot conversation, saving you time, plus testing emails in Hubspot and duplicate content considerations. Now there’s a tongue twister, Craig? You’re listening to Asia Pacific’s number one Hubspot focused podcast where we discuss household tips, tricks, strategies and features for growing yourselves, marketing, and service results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. Now, Craig, why are you laughing so hard?

– Oh, I’m just like, “Are we gonna leave that “in at the start?” Are we not gonna restart or re-record that one, let’s just get going.

– Yeah, absolutely.

– So our growth thought of the week, Craig, building a mote. And why are we talking about this? Because there was an interesting Twitter post which–

– From an online person called Brian Helligan. It talked about between 19 marketing tech stack across three different areas, attract, engage, analyze and optimize and Hubspot was in all three of those.

– Well, for one particular company, J.J. Crab. So this is actually pretty cool. It’s got Brinker from Martech has this little, it’s not really a competition, but it’s kind of a survey where people submit their marketing stack. As you know there’s thousands of tools and one of them G2 Crowd, this was their stack and Hubspot was in all three, I guess, stages of their stack and of course we can go and check out some of the other ones, and so I’ve got links in the show notes. But we’re talking about this idea of building a mote and what I thought was interesting was, well, there’s a product mote, there’s your product is so good that people can’t get close. You’re protecting yourself with a mote, but I think there’s other different chattings that Hubspot have just besides their product and I think we’re gonna chat about some of those. And one you always heard about us talking on this show is the high quality of support. Yeah, and you know how lots of companies have great support these days?

– Yes.

– It’s not that much of a differentiator, but I’ve gotta say, with Hubspot’s support, not only is it very timely and very quick to respond, but there’s actually quite well-trained people. There are senior people on support and I was listening to you on a support call today, I’ve never had this experience where they go, “Oh, I’ll just check that “and get back to you, and in the background “all they’re doing is a Google search, “and trying to find something.”

– Great.

– They’re actually really well-trained–

– Yes.

– They’re very knowledgeable and they often come back with answers that I hadn’t even considered which I know sounds a little bit arrogant, but I guess it’s just because my benchmark, getting support from people, the first support response I get is something that I’ve already found after a one second Google search.

– Okay.

– It’s just so condescending. Hubspot is never like that. Their support is great. So lots of companies have great support, Hubspot’s is excellent. However that’s not that much of a differentiator these days. However I think what is is one particular asset they’ve been building.

– Which is the Hubspot academy.

– And I often tell this to people that say, “Why should I consider Hubspot “or whey should I use this tool?” And I say, “Look, everything that’s in there, “in the academy that we used “to train our teams and I know you do too.” And we train ourselves using that training. And so I always tell people, you can know as much as we do by using that training and actually applying yourself to the system. Obviously, we use it day in, day in out. Not everybody uses it the same as we do, but it’s all there, it’s just a matter of finding it, learning it and applying it. Yeah, so not only is the content good, but it’s very well-organized, a nice sub sort of category because, so for example, Google, they have a lot of online around tools, Google Analytics, Google Ads. It’s impossible to find. How do you find it? It’s not well-structured and, we’re just gonna, Hubspot Academy is a must. This is a keeper. Can you think of any other company that can even get close?

– Wow.

– Send us a comment. Tell us if there’s any product trend or software, anything that comes close to what Hubspot has with Hubspot Academy. I’d love to see it.

– Now in terms of support, Craig, I wanna say, look, we think use WP Engine and we use their support, but that support is on live chat and there’s no “pick up the phone, let’s call you up.”

– This is true.

– So in that perspective, when you think about support, Hubspot has three different channels and they offer you support on being it a call, they can call you back. You can do a live chat and you can log a ticket. So I think they give you many options and I actually really like how we pretty much get 24/7 support because it goes from Singapore to Dublin, I think then to Boston and back around again. So for we us, we have dealt with people in Boston and Dublin previously. We do it with a lot of people in Singapore because of the time difference now and again, if I am up late at night and doing stuff at rather odd hours, you do get people from Dublin and Boston which is great. And I think there’s a consistency across the team, so well done to Hubspot support.

– All right, Craig, our Hubspot marketing feature of the week.

– I’ve spoken about this on previous shows. It’s about email testing and do you know that there is actually email testing within the Hubspot marketing email too? Where you can choose, I don’t know how many different options there were, there were literally about 50 different options about you wanted to test your email on an iPhone XS running iOS 13 running outlook 2013 on Windows, Outlook in the Chrome browser, so many things. Anyway, you’ve heard us talk about Litmus before where they basically do email testing across browsers and across systems. Well, this is built into Hubspot. You can go ahead and select what you want and you can run the test, see the results, and get it out the other end.

– Now I’m assuming there’s a significant cost to run those tests, is there?

– No, there isn’t.

– Testing nearly of course is just clicking a few buttons.

– I know, actually doing it, this is what’s incredible about it. And why would I mention that because you might be thinking, “Oh, well it’s costly for you.” Well, we’ve used other tools in the past where they have the option for email testing and then they’ll charge you a certain amount to test with other platforms, so this is just something you get from Hubspot for free. Let me just take you, like one of the ones that we’ve used previously in the past you could use called Litmus. They charge $99 a month if you wanna do email testing. You know what I wanna say, Litmus is, well, it’s the gold standard. So they’re probably better. I would assume they’re better actually. They better be better for that price and they’re testing that they do. Have you used it recently?

– No, I haven’t.

– Yeah, I haven’t used it for a long time, actually. I just use Hubspot mainly for our clients.

– All right, now onto Hubspot’s sales feature of the week, Craig.

– I wanted to highlight this. “Sales professionals often should “be selling, but also require training.” And one, what’s really interesting is they have a really good stat is that sales professionals with three to four years of sales experience spend 50% or more of their time in those with two years or less. And 110% of those with five years or more probably because rookies aren’t sure if they’re going to stay in sales and veterans don’t believe they need to develop further. So this is about them doing their sales training and actually having time. So what’s another interesting step that people use is that in businesses, sales managers say they spend about 50% of their time actually training their sales team, but really it’s 25 to 30% of the time that they actually do it. And I think I spoke about this before. There’s an interesting step that I’ve heard from somebody that worked in Apple is that they spend the first hour of every day doing sales training. So these are people in the Apple Store. This is the first thing they do every morning. They do an hour sales training.

– Really?

– Yeah.

– Like before the store opens?

– Correct.

– Wow, this is staff on the floor.

– This is somebody that used to work in a store was telling me about it.

– So let me just check, so every day I spend an hour every day before the store opens.

– Wow, anyway, so coming back to that, I really, because I’ve been training a few sales teams, I’ve been pointing them to resource and then I’m gonna be like, “What training can we do?” So there were actually two bits of training that I’m wanting to highlight and I’ve started doing one of them, I haven’t done the other. The first one is frictionless sales certifications. That’s something that’s been brought up by Hubspot so I would encourage you to do that. I think it’s about two hours worth of videos and then there’s a test at the end, and then there’s another one which is the power of content in sales, having the right collateral for your sales process and the influence of content.

– Look, I’m totally distracted by that Apple’s done an hour of training–

– Yes.

– Every morning before, I’ve been thinking about it, you know what I’m gonna do?

– You’re gonna walk into the Apple Store and ask them?

– No, no, I’m going to show my team and myself every day before you get the email or anything, you’ve gotta do an hour of training on Hubspot Academy, let’s say. Let’s try that for a month.

– Yeah, that’s a good challenge.

– Let’s see how that goes.

– Yeah.

– You’d make time to do things.

– Exactly.

– But everyone on the team kinda has a bit of quieter or a guide that they’re supposed to do in terms of training each week. No one does it, but myself, I’d pull leading by example in this because whose life gets in the way and it’s something, there’s always something urgent. They just say, “Oh, I know, well, I put training off “or I block it in the afternoon now. “There’s a client call at the,” But once if we said the fist hour, you’re not allowed to touch email until you’ve done an hour of training on the Hubspot Academy. You would make time for it.

– Yeah.

– You would have to make it happen.

– Exactly.

– I think I’m gonna do it. This challenge is on. Who’s with me?

– I’m with you, Craig? All right, there we go. Do the frictionless sales certification, Craig. Let’s get going. All right, onto the Hubspot sales feature of the week, Craig. Using conversations to reduce your workload.

– Yeah, you know how I love Hubspot conversations. We don’t talk enough about this on the show, I don’t think. We haven’t really given as much prominence as it deserves, I feel. So we use Hubspot conversations, in fact, in a number of our businesses, but one of them that’s an online training base, one of my wife’s sites, it gets quite a lot of support requests coming in. We used to use another product. We’ve now moved that over to conversations in Hubspot. We don’t even use tickets. It’s all conversations because they come in by email or LinkedIn, Hubspot–

– Messenger.

– Facebook, Facebook Messenger that comes in and the form now comes in ’cause it’s–

– The support form, right?

– The support form links right into the conversation.

– Yeah.

– Now it’s great. It’s not as full-featured as the tool we had before. However it’s saving us a lot more time because of one key little feature and we’ve–

– Tell me, Craig, what is the key little feature?

– If you’re in conversations and you’re looking in conversation you can assign it to yourself, but then up in the top-right there’s this little dropdown and there’s move the trash, block sender, or mark it spam. You’ve got three options there.

– Yep.

– And we get so many outreach emails and junk support requests coming in.

– I know, I was reading some of those outreach emails like, “Hi, I’ve reached to you out “the first time and you haven’t responded.” Oh, the second one. “I’ve reached you for the second time “and you haven’t responded.” Third time, fourth time, I was like, “Really?” These people because they’re all only sequences, right? They’re probably using Hubspot Sequences to send their spam outreach emails. Well, there’s any number of tools, Malshake and others. But anyways, the first time that comes in we’re just gonna write mark as spam or block sender, and then all their follow-ups, all those nine followups just go into the filtered section in conversations, so we never see them again. It is saving us so much time and I’ve got a screenshot here since we just added this in which was a couple of months ago. We’ve switched over to Hubspot Conversations. 522 conversations have been filtered out as spam. It’s saving us–

– So much time.

– Such a mess here.

– Oh, yeah, it’s saving us so much time.

– So tell me, on the previous system that you used, this did not happen.

– No, in fact, what would happened is they’d come in, we’d go just go, “I’ll mark it as resolved.”

– Yep.

– To get it out. Then I would do the followup. That would come in as a new ticket.

– Oh.

– Yeah, it was really frustrating. Now I think it was an older system. It was Desk by Salesforce is what we used to use. So maybe it’s an older system and maybe there’s newer systems that would’ve been better then. Desk might have been better. I don’t know, but it just used to waste so much of our time because if you think that we’re not reaching in the four fives, that’s five interruptions to–

– Then it just removes.

– Respond. Yeah, now admittedly in Monotech a couple seconds I was now on there, he was like, “Okay, I’ll blank it out.” But that’s contact switching. It’s just chewing up and it’s cycles. So that’s what saves us this time and as we get more and more like that, actual business is getting more and more popular, I’m getting lots more of those spam outreach, it’s just gonna save us more and more time. So compounds, compounding returns. Thank you, Hubspot, excellent.

– Now, Craig, onto our marketing tip of the week. And this is about keeping email deliverability good and the effort some people will go through to make sure that you get their emails. I’ll put a screenshot here and I think there’s an email I signed up to here a little while ago. But what I found really interesting was that they said they’re in the process, they actually sent me an email saying they’re in the process of updating their customer service experience and they wanna make sure that I’ve received the latest news and event updates, right? And the domain it comes from had changed. So what they’d done, they had put in the email is to ensure that you get these emails. Please make sure that we’re in your address book and it needs to be updated with the new email sending domain, right? So then they said what the domain was and then they basically, they created a whole page, they’ve created a learning page about how to white list or get your IT team to put the domain in so that you actually got this email and it’s pretty comprehensive. So if you click that link, you’ll actually see that. What are your thoughts on this? What percentage of people would get this and actually go and do that?

– Well, if you’re really keen, for example, Morning Brew, if I got that and I really wanted to continue on, I would probably go through there for it. I really like Morning Brew. I’ve never missed a Morning Brew. I’ve never done that.

– Well, that’s exactly–

– I’d rather add it to white list. But this is the thing, and I guess it’s not so much for us in the sense that we’re using Google for work for our stuff. There are people where businesses that we deal with, say, like in the medical sector that would have that very strict email filtering in their businesses. And even things from Hubspot will get blocked before it even gets to the person.

– Really?

– Yes.

– Okay.

– By an IT filtering rule.

– Right, so how are they even gonna get notified to do this?

– Well, this is the thing, right? So I guess the thing here is that if they were already receiving it, they wanna make sure that if anything further happens–

– It doesn’t get restricted or changed, yeah?

– It’s a change, right?

– Yeah, you can say that.

– It sounds like I’ve just signed up for something, can you please make sure? There have been people that have done that. And there is somebody that I am seeing do this. When you sign up say, “Oh, look, make sure that “if you’re using this, make sure you drag “it into your primary folder “so you make sure you get our emails.” Which I thought was actually really good and then on the landing thank you page actually alerting people that this could happen, but if you wanna hear from us, make sure that it is in your primary inbox. So that’s a really good one and this is just another extreme of that. Look, it’s a good idea and I get that there’s so much email and it gets put into folders, so I wonder, I’d love to know, how would you even measure the effectiveness of this, whether they do it?

– Well, you check the deliverability and you open, right, it was the same as before.

– Well, that’s true. You can compare open rights. Deliverability wouldn’t change.

– Yeah.

– ‘Cause just ’cause it’s another folder it’s still delivered.

– Yep.

– If that’s in your news folder–

– That’s true, there’s still a limit.

– So what I clicked is create.

– That would be the indicator.

– To create would be key, yeah, if they did have IT rules that blocked it then that would effect deliverability. It would be your blocked emails.

– Correct, and you can see that in Hubspot.

– You’ll see that it is a bounced email and it has been blocked by the receiver’s domain and that domain cannot receive email.

– Very good food for though there.

– There you go. What’s our insight of the week, Craig?

– All right, I’m revisiting duplicate content. How many times a week have I did this one the show? So many times, but it keeps coming up and– A lot of people talk about it, right?

– A lot of people are really worried about this, how I’m gonna get a duplicate content penalty.

– Yes.

– So I’ll just give a bit of context, it’s come up this week with a whole bunch of–

– Customers, clients.

– Well, prospects.

– Oh, yes.

– Kyle was at a conference to a whole bunch of our prospects and this came up. Hey, shout out to Kyle, here, by the way, anyway, there’s this idea that if you have content that is on your sight that is on someone else’s sight, you are gonna get a content penalty. Google will penalize your side because you’ve got duplicate content. Now this has, well, a long history because 10 years ago that was much more potentially a problem. It was actually a sense of content, duplicate content penalty, but that hasn’t been the case for years. And to prove the point, in the show notes, I’ve got four separate high authority sites talking about this. One of them is Google talking about this. Anyway, there is no such thing as a duplicate content penalty anymore. In fact, all it’ll call it is content filtering. And here just to set the scope, this is what I’m talking about, people just creating websites, using content, okay? So we’re not talking about those blackout SEOs that do things to manipulate rankings. That might be treated differently, but for all the other businesses that put up content, so typical example, eCommerce side, maybe you’re selling a product on your eCommerce side that isn’t on other products. Maybe it’s on Amazon. You will use similar product descriptions, all this kinda thing. You are not gonna get penalized. However, what Google will do is they will filter and they will filter for the user who’s doing the search to give that user what they consider the best result. Now to give you a very simple example, if it’s location-based, you’re in Sydney, someone else in Melbourne or someone else is in New York.

– Yes.

– Now if you’re searching in New York, whose site do you recon Google’s gonna show the content from. It’s not gonna be the Sydney based one.

– Exactly.

– It’s gonna be the New York one by us, in Sydney, vice versa, right? So that’s what filtering is in action. So this is kinda what the, yeah, as I said, a bunch of people say just trying to read or write this case got some turnout there and I’ll give you a great example in Australia or in other countries. Car dealerships–

– Yes.

– So think of Hyundai. The Hyundai car they are shipping, all these dealers around–

– Australia.

– Australia, in fact, in Sydney there have been multiple Hyundai dealers. Go to their sites, probably 90% of the content on their sites is gonna be the same as every other dealer because they’re gonna have all the car models, bringing up all the finance options.

– The same specific interest.

– The site specs are gonna have probably the same or very similar service offerings, right? And then I’ll have a bit of some original content around their team and a few other things. And a few other things, maybe somebody related, right? Most of the content is the same as every other Hyundai dealer, okay?

– Do you think Google has a penalty on Hyundai dealerships?

– Yeah.

– Hyundai. But what they will do is, they’ll filter it, right? And so if you’re in a particular suburb searching for a Hyundai dealer, you’ll get probably the closest to you or if you’ve actually visited a previous Hyundai dealership, maybe Google will be smart enough to know that was in your history. I’ll show you that one. It probably depends on the device you’re on, like they’ll look at the sites and they’ll go, “Well, this site actually works “on mobile, this one doesn’t.” So if you’re mobile, all these factors, right?

– Yeah.

– Duplicate content penalty? No. Filtering based on what’s the best result for you? Yes.

– Correct.

– And I hope this puts the whole conversation to rest, right?

– To rest.

– If you’ve got a question about that please drop us a note and we can go into it in more details. Some of the show notes go into it in a lot of detail, so you can read through that. I hope that’s helpful.

– Okay, Craig, onto our podcast of the week. And this is a podcast from Seth Godin called “Akimbo.” And I wanna highlight one episode which talks about friction and we talk about frictionless selling. I thought this would be a good episode for people to listen to. And you know why we highlight these episodes and these podcasts to you is to actually grow your understanding beyond marketing and sales, and a lot of these, think, this is actually to broaden our horizons like we learn. And we actually learn a lot from listening to other people doing different things and growing themselves. I encourage you to, if you can’t listen to everything, at least listen to one thing.

– All right, Craig, you’ve got some good resources for the week which is BBC trends for 2020. You can post here from Smart Insights and by the way, yes, folks, the 2020 trends posts have started already.

– They sure have.

– Brace yourself. December’s normally when they start appearing, but no,

– I’m getting into–

– That’s the sort of stuff they’re after.

– It’s like Christmas is coming.

– Yeah, Christmas is coming, that’s further on, so apologies for that, but look, this is actually a good post, ignore the headline. This is really just around some thoughts around where PPC and advertising is going on.

– So what are some key points, Craig?

– Yeah, well I’ve got a few of the highlights I just pulled out. Look, automation of your advertising, that’s what’s probably the biggest thing that’s changing, right? We see this in Google, we see this in Facebook, all the ad platforms, so much of the targeting these days, we just let Facebook work it out. Some of the ads to use, we just let Google work it out. That’s actually one of the other points, they highlight this whole idea of responsive ads. Google’s really, even Facebook’s behind on this. Facebook doesn’t do that particularly well.

– You’re right.

– Well, they do. They will show you the different sizes, but I thinK I was gonna say–

– Yeah, yes.

– Google’s not that responsive with ads.

– Well, that’s because of the placement, right? Just think about Google has so many different placements across the web that it has access to compared to Facebook. And that’s the reason. I think they’ve just had to adapt quicker because of these very massive variations that they have. What’s the next thing, artificial intelligence?

– Well, of course.

– Yes.

– We kind wore the advertising conversation out talking about AI and machine learning.

– Okay.

– So that’s of course making results better.

– And what’s the other one, video ads?

– Yeah, I thought this was a nice follow on from our insight last episode where we were talking about Facebook inflating those video attention or dwell times. But video advertising is on the rise, but in particular video ad format. So, and I mentioned bumper ads, that Google’s got that tool where it’ll just take a longer, a couple minute video and I’ll make six second trunks out of it to use those simple videos. That’s gonna become much more of the norm and I think that is the experience. People seem to be okay being interrupted for few seconds.

– Correct.

– And I think six seconds is probably about right. Those 15 second bumpers that YouTube have. Well, we’ve chatted about this on our show before. I have YouTube Pro, or I pay for it so I never see ads on YouTube, thank goodness.

– Oh, I can’t believe people sit through ads on YouTube, anyway–

– But you know what? Every time after that episode that I have on YouTube, and I see it and I just get reminded of you, Craig.

– You’re right, I would actually go further. I would actually pay for ads to be removed from Twitter.

– Okay.

– I’m not on Facebook really much these days except when I’m running, managing ad campaigns. But, Instagram, I’m hardly ever on, but I am on Twitter a fair bit.

– So would you pay to get ads removed off of Google, if you could?

– Yes, I would.

– Interesting.

– Yeah, you mean on Google Search?

– Maybe not Google Search because they’re normally high intent. So if I’m searching for something and the ad probably is very relevant to me.

– It usually is.

– YouTube, I’ve got it blocked, Twitter, I would actually pay to have them removed.

– Oh, okay.

– I’d pay five bucks. I’d pay five bucks a month for Medium, I’d pay five bucks a month for Twitter to be ad free because most of the ads are not helpful to me. And Facebook, if I was on there I would pay to optionally be able to remove it. Yeah, just ’cause it interrupts even the flow and then you just fade from me. As you know, I’ve subscribed to a whole bunch of news sites and I don’t pay for it. That’s money well spent for me.

– Okay. It’s time, right?

– It’s got less distraction.

– You’re getting less distraction, you’re getting back your time. And I kinda choke when I say that because a lot our agencies–

– Just running ads.

– Just managing ads for clients. There’s an internal conflict there which–

– It’s–

– I’m struggling with.

– Yeah, all right, Craig, onto our quote of the week.

– Oh, hell. I’ll read the quote. Well, you can read the quote. “Let’s not confuse getting better “at stuff with being a better person.” One is as much big a priority than the other and this is from the Daily Stoic which I quite like. We get better and better at ads all the time, but is it making us a better person? I don’t think so.

– No, that’s not making us better, Craig.

– Oh, my goodness, that quote was from me. all right, listen as there are some brightest links of the week that we highlight some great things to do with audience segmentation and so on. I’d love you take a look at the show. We’d love you to leave a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify and again, we’d love to hear from our listeners, if you’ve got anything at all, even just to say, “Hi,” we would love to hear from you. Wherever you are in the world, we love hearing from you guys. It’s sometimes a bit lonely here, but that’s all right. We do appreciate you listening and we do appreciate anything that we do get. And until next time, Craig.

– Catch ya later, Ian.

– Hey, there thanks for listening to this episode Hubshots. For show notes and the latest Hubshots news and tips please visit us at hubshots.com. ♪ Magic girl ♪

Episode 178

Episode 178: How to ‘Test and Measure’ when you can’t measure, plus Merging Contacts gotcha

Welcome to Episode 178 of Hubshots!

HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

This episode we chat about how to avoid a gotcha when merging contacts, plus think through how to ‘test and measure’ video engagement.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/178-how-to-test-and-measure-when-you-cant-measure-plus-merging-contacts-gotcha/

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD3Uo4X-IxPJLE8ygPDQhNQ

Subscribe to our Spotify channel here: https://open.spotify.com/show/7oee8w41riN5aRNrLKT2ar

Join the Facebook group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/hubshots/

Follow us on Twitter here: https://twitter.com/hubshots

Follow us on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/hubshotspodcast/

Follow us on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hubshots/

Recorded: Wednesday 23 October 2019 | Published: Friday 1 November 2019

Shot 1: Growth Thought of the Week

Our strategy for the podcast

Using it mainly as a bottom of the funnel marketing piece.

We use it to drive perception and credibility.

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

How to change your email in HubSpot

Example scenario: you change your company domain and everyone’s email address changes

How do you update your HubSpot login to use the new address?

Go to your profile, there is a button to change your email address and follow the verification steps as outlined here > https://knowledge.hubspot.com/account/how-do-i-change-the-email-address-of-a-user
<h2″>Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Territory rotation with Workflows


Thanks Kyle!

A good example of using workflows to help with sales processes

Shot 4: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

Side-effects of merging contacts

Be aware that merging contacts can re-trigger workflows for the destination contact



You may have started getting email notifications from HubSpot telling you about contacts you can merge. This is good for data cleanliness, but can be a gotcha, which I don’t think HubSpot does a good job of warning people about.

How to handle this: Have exclusions lists in your workflows

Have a process for handling this – the best way to manage it is to have Global Suppression Lists setup which are set in all workflows. Add all the contacts you are going to merge into the Global Suppression list before your merge, and then take them out after the merge.

Listen to Shot 2 back in episode 149 for more details on how we implement this:


Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

No more mixed http and https content messages – Chrome will block http content


However, Chrome is going to do it as intelligently as possible – and will autoupgrade items (eg images) to use their https version if it is available. If not, it will simply block it.

Action item: Check your sites for http items and update to https

Shot 6: Insight of the Week

Test and Measure

How do you ‘test and measure’ if you can’t be confident in the measurements?

Take Facebooks overestimation of video views debacle:




Summary of the issue: how they calculated time spent watching (total time divided by ‘view’ instead of total time divided by ‘started watching’)

Eg if total time watched is 3 mins, and 3 people start watching, but only 1 actually views for more than 3 seconds, then there is a big difference

By one calc the average watch time is 3 mins, with the other it is 1 min, ie a 300% difference

How to accurately test and measure

The key is to push your measurement to be more than just engagement – aim to get visits and conversions as well

It’s also a reminder that using multiple analytics packages is fine – they won’t agree exactly, but they should be within 10% of each other. Eg using both HubSpot analytics and Google analytics on your site.

Here’s an example of bad marketing practices:


Shot 7: Podcast of the Week

Business Casual by Morning Brew


Shot 8: Resource of the Week


Question: Is it a problem if my page has multiple H1 tags.

Answer: No

John Mueller gives a few pointers:


12  Multiple H1 headings  how to handle them for SEO   accessibility   AskGoogleWebmasters   YouTube

Shot 9: Quote of the Week

“Dressing well is a form of good manners.”

  • Tom Ford

From Clare Sheng’s wonderful book: The Suit Book

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week

Google Search Console has a few new reports related to video (if you use markup with your videos):


Ahrefs is building a search engine with a 90/10 revenue sharing model


Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

Episode 178

– [Ian] Hi everyone, welcome to HubShots episode 178. In this episode, we look at how to test and measure when you can’t measure plus merging contacts, gotcha in HubSpot. You’re listening to Asia Pacific’s number one HubSpot-focused podcast, where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks, features and strategies for growing your marketing and sales results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. How are you, Craig?

– [Craig] Really good and you know what’s unusual about this episode? We’re actually recording this during daylight hours.

– I know.

– For once. So you came over, we had lunch together–

– [Ian] That’s right.

– [Craig] and it’s about four o’clock in the afternoon.

– [Ian] It’s a cracker of a day outside, I have to say.

– [Craig] It’s so good, but yeah, there’s light, it’s light as we record. Normally, we’re recording late at night so this is a bit of a treat for us.

– [Ian] Onto our growth strategy for the week, Craig, or our growth thought for the week.

– [Craig] Yeah, well, this is something that I’ve said a couple of episodes. We’re gonna chat about our approach to the podcast because this has came up at the HubSpot user group back in September and we’re just gonna mention our approach and this might be useful to listeners because we actually don’t use the podcast as a top of the funnel base, which people might think is weird. Aren’t you trying to get new listeners? Aren’t you trying to grow your audience? Of course everyone wants that and we do want that. And as our listenership grows, that’s great. But once you know the key criteria, actually what we use it for or I’ll talk about it myself, you can chat maybe a little bit different, but it’s a credibility piece. So, for me and our agency, it’s very much bottom of the funnel. It’s about showing our expertise. It’s also about our credibility. And so, rather than generating leads from the podcast, it’s more about when we get a prospect, we’re chatting with them, they look to the podcast to get confidence in us. So, it’s more of a closer. It’s actually more of a sales tool at the end than a marketing tool at the top. How do you feel? Is that similar for you?

– [Ian] It has been very similar for me, Craig, and even more so probably for this year, I would say that’s been a big part of it. So, I think I am trying to with some of the stuff we’re doing internally in our business and like we’ve been doing for ourselves is try to drive more of that to the top of the funnel, so to get people interested.

– [Craig] And here’s the thing. A lot of our work just comes through referral. So, the question for, well, other agencies and small businesses is if you’re getting a lot of work through referrals, should you actually be spending time at the top of the funnel awareness and all these kind of bigger company play books? And well, no, not really. Why would you spend money and time and effort focusing on completely new audiences, if you’re getting referral, right? That makes sense for small business. But as you grow, of course, referral kind of plateaus and you do need to move more to and inbound marketing piece and much more top of the funnel. So, we will be pushing that as we’re growing and I think that’s probably our 2020 goal. We’ll be doing a lot more of that. Pushing the podcast out there, a bit more awareness. But anyway, I just thought that was, perhaps, interesting for our listeners and marketers in general. It’s always about thinking what’s the goal for each piece of content and the strategy behind it. Anyway, just an insight into ours.

– [Ian] All right, Craig, onto our HubSpot Marketing feature of the week. And this is about how to change your email in HubSpot. Now, why I’m gonna highlight this is I had a customer of ours that has moved their email from a dot com domain to a dot com dot au or vice versa and they wanted to know well, how do I change this? Now, in previous times, I would’ve gone oh, you need to create a new user for yourself, go through the whole process, then reassign all the contacts to yourself. Anyway, you don’t need to do that. You go to your profile preferences. You can actually edit your email address that’s associated to your account and then you have to go through the reverification process again, but it means that now you don’t have to go through all that malarkey that you used to do before. So, there you go.

– [Craig] Who would’ve thought it was that simple, eh?

– [Ian] I know.

– [Craig] Just go to your profile and update it.

– [Ian] Thank you to HubSpot Support for pointing that out to us.

– [Craig] By the way, I was listening when you had that HubSpot ’cause you called them, right?

– That’s right.

– And, well, apart from some interesting on hold music.

– [Ian] I know that, the on hold music, I don’t know about the on hold music.

– [Craig] Worth calling ’em just to listen to that, my goodness. But anyway, it’s super helpful. I’m sure we have, but have we ever had a bad support experience? Gee, they’re good.

– [Ian] I think about this is the marketing and growth thought of the week. That’s one thing that they’ve nailed, support. All right, onto our HotSpot sales feature of the week Craig. Territory rotation with work flows. Shout out to Kyle for this blog post

– Jepson.

– Yep. They’ve been pushing a lot on round work flows and you know how we love work flows.

– I know.

– I love work flows.

– [Ian] I read this when I got the email notification. It was actually really good.

– [Craig] I think the message from this more generally is you can do anything with work flows. That’s where we’re getting to the point where when someone has a question how do I do this? It’s not a standard feature. It’s like, well, my go-to is I’m pretty sure we can work out how to do that in a work flow. So, this is a good article in this. In this case, territories and assigning them, rotation. So a good post so just go through and get an insight into that.

– [Ian] All right, onto the HubSpot gotcha of the week Craig and this has to do with the side effects of merging contacts. Now, I’m liking this feature in HubSpot, right? And been getting notifications and my customers are getting confused. They’re like what is this merging contacts stuff? Anyway, we’re gonna tell you that there is a gotcha to this that would happen, especially if you’re running work flows on the backend that rely on contact properties. There are things that get triggered when you merge work flows. So, tell us more, Craig.

– [Craig] Well, I almost wanna say with work flows after just talking about how awesome they are, as we do every episode, it’s kind of like with great power comes great responsibility, so to speak. Work flows, they can be very powerful but they can also have gotchas like this. Now, we actually mentioned this way back I think at the start of the year in episode 149.

– [Ian] Yes, we did.

– [Craig] Where we talked about merging contacts. and basically this side effect that many people I don’t think are aware of. And what it is, let’s say you’ve got contact A and you’re gonna merge it into contact B. Now contact B, let’s say they signed up on the site, they filled in a form and then it sent some thank you emails, put them in a nurture, right? Let’s say they did that a year ago, so that’s contact B and that’s the one you’re merging into. Now contact A might just be a variation of their email address and you happen to notice it because you get one of those nice notifications from HubSpot, thanks for sending those out. So you go along, you go right, I’ll just put HubSpot contact A into B, so you merge it. Bang, suddenly all those work flows that contact B has already been through get triggered again for contact A. And so, this can be quite puzzling, quite distressing for clients, as well. It’s like right, well, how did this happen? Well, here’s the side effect. And you know what? A slight criticism of HubSpot for this ’cause even though they’ve got a support article that talks about potential downsides and we’ve got that linked in the show notes. When they send these emails out saying you’ve got all these contacts to merge and they have that list, they don’t make it clear. There might be a little message, you know, oh be aware that there could be these effects, but I actually think this is a big gotcha and it’s causing confusion for clients and I think it’s gonna be a big problem that HubSpot’s got on their hands. Anyway, how do you get around it? Which, of course, is the key. Now, we’ve got a bit of a workaround and we went through this back in episode 149 and it involves creating exclusion lists. And one of the things you might know in work flows, is you can have exclusion lists or suppression lists that basically if someone is in one of these exclusion lists they don’t go through the work flow. And we have this process with the clients. We have this whole process where if we’re gonna merge contacts, we put those contacts into an exclusion list so that they don’t get triggered into work flows. Or if they do, they’re just excluded from work flow. We put the into those exclusion lists, we then merge the contacts and then we take those contacts out of the exclusion lists. Well, the resulting, finalized contact list. And that’s the way you get around it, so it’s quite manual. You actually have to go through all your contacts and put them in these exclusions lists, then remember to take them out in order to stop this side effect of the work flows. Now, that’s the workaround at the moment. I hope HubSpot comes up with a better kind of option. For example, what I’d love is just when you merge and option that says do not trigger any work flows. As simple as that. That’s really what they need. I think they’ll bring that out ’cause I think there’s gonna be a problem for clients.

– Yes.

– Anyway, that’s the gotcha and that’s the workaround at the moment. Find us in episode 149 shot to for more details on that.

– [Ian] Excellent. Now onto our marketing tip of the week, Craig. No more mixed http and https content messages and Chrome will block http content. So this, listeners, is sites that haven’t been transitioned to a secure… have a security certificate and are secure. And within that, there’s obviously images and other assets that get caught, so previously people might’ve know of this as mixed content warnings where the site might actually be secure but it’s calling as if it’s on an insecure server. And what Chrome does is it basically highlights to you and says oh this is unsafe. Do you wanna proceed, right? So, what have they done, Craig?

– [Craig] Well, this is in an upcoming release. What they’re going to do is instead of just giving warnings they’re just gonna block that resource. Your page loads and let’s say there’s an insecure http resource–

– Yeah, like an image, yeah.

– They just won’t show it. It’ll just be kind of rendered out, yeah.

– [Ian] Rendered out, yeah.

– [Craig] Yeah, so that there’s no chance.

– [Ian] so, I mean, this is really interesting. I’ll tell you why. Because people that haven’t gone through the due diligence and the process of upgrading to a secure site properly are gonna have this problem. Like I’m only telling you this because we have gone through a process with customers over the last few years where we’ve actually gone through, checked all the mixed content warnings, made sure that everything’s being called correctly. And then there are are other people that we’ve dealt with who are just like oh, no, don’t worry, just apply the certificate, don’t worry about it. It’ll all be good. These are the people that are gonna suffer very soon when it comes to these–

– [Craig] Yeah, look and I think it depends on the hosting and also plugins, like in WordPress you can get plugins that force all the resources. One of the things I will say about this upcoming chrome release is that they’re gonna be smart about it. So, they’re going to, let’s say it’s just an http image, so non secure, they will check the https version and if it’s there, that’ll load that instead. So, it’s doing some smarts in the background. Thanks Chrome, that’s actually a good thing. But, if they can’t find the secure, bang, they’re just gonna leave it out.

– [Ian] First thing, make sure you’ve got a security certificate. Second, once you’ve done that check for mixed content warnings and then go through appropriate remediation to get all of that fixed before this rolls out so you don’t get affected. All right, Craig, onto our insight of the week. A little a, what do I call? Our maxim. Test and measure that we always talk about. And thinking of Chris, we just spoke to Chris–

– [Craig] Chris Mottram, our producer who is helping us test and measure to get our audio quality even better. Thanks, Chris.

– [Ian] And this is something that you were telling me over lunch which totally bypassed me, but metrics on videos in Facebook are totally wrong.

– [Craig] That’s right. So let me give you a bit of the background to this just quickly because the background’s interesting but, I guess, the ramifications of it are even more important. So, this all goes back a couple years to when Facebook was rolling out video and are giving stats on average video view time, but they calculated it incorrectly. And I think this goes back to starting in 2015 and the reason it’s came to light is ’cause there was a class action or legal action actually taken against Facebook in 2016 about them incorrectly reporting the stats. Now, just quickly what they had done is in terms of calculating average view time, they were taking all the time that it was viewed and then instead of dividing by the total number of people who might have just started watching. Remember how the videos used to auto play just starting as you were scrolling through? They only divided it by the number of people who were actually called a viewer. So, the kinds of people that watched for at least three seconds or four seconds count as a view. The difference is, if you only divided by that smaller number of people, the average view time looks really high. Whereas if it was divided by actually the number of people that indirectly just started it, then it was must lower. So the point is that their numbers or the metrics were inflated by well, multiples up to, and some people claim 800%, et cetera. So, that’s all the background. Now, that all started in 2016. It’s all come out now recently because it’s part of that ongoing legal action. They’ve had access to internal Facebook communication. Like hundreds and hundreds of pages of emails and so forth. And it turns out, Facebook knew about this for more than a year before they did anything about it. Even though, they’re saying oh sorry, small calculation error. Yeah, we fixed it, minimal effect, right? What’s coming out now is that it was massively overestimated or overinflated numbers and they knew about it for ages. They did nothing about it and they didn’t bother. It wasn’t a concern, right? Okay, so that’s the history. What’s the ramifications of that? The ramifications are lots of things. First of all, people were moving ad budgets from other platforms onto Facebook because you remember a couple years ago everyone’s all like oh video, video is the future, right? And, of course, it is but the numbers on Facebook seemed so good and so cheap, as a result that people were pushing whole budgets away from, say, YouTube and other platforms onto Facebook. And the problem is because the numbers were inflated, they weren’t getting the results they expected. Maybe you’re expecting similar results to what you get on YouTube but it’s not happening on Facebook, et cetera. So, there’s been whole, I guess, marketing budgets pushed into a platform or a medium, which has been false. Like, in fact, not only a mistake, but you could actually say deliberately withheld. So, here comes the question ’cause we are always saying test and measure. How do we test and measure if we can’t actually measure accurately? If we can’t be confident? So that’s what I wanna chat about today in this insight. So, but before we go on, I’ve spoken for a bit there. Did you wanna make any comments about that and maybe some action items from your point of view before I, yeah, go on a bit?

– [Ian] Yes, so I think one of the actions here is we all know that, especially where we work within HubSpot, there’s a little bit of leaks in there. We also always put in the Google Analytics so we have a second point of reference. Now, it might not always be exactly 100% because people measure things differently in terms of what’s the duration that this measurement takes into account before it actually gets measured, which can be different, so give me your different results. But, regardless to say, there are all these different points or analytics packages that we can use to collect data. So if you’re using a particular package to collect data about your videos, then you should be able to tell is the video playback, or the points at which people are dropping off or playing, is it that the same as what’s being reported? That’s essentially what I wanted to say, so like having a second point of reference.

– [Craig] Actually, you’ve highlighted one thing, which is you wanna get them off Facebook onto your site in some point. So, one of the keys to coming around this is not only engagement but actually conversion stats, so you get them to your site. So, you might have a Facebook video but the call to action is to get them to your site so that you can actually compare whether it’s working. So for all those people who moved away from YouTube to Facebook, there should have been an end result, which was is it actually building audiences that drive people to your website, or to some other conversion action, not just an engagement metric. However, your point around having multiple analytics packages is perfect because there’s multiple video platforms. So another, I guess, takeaway from this is don’t just choose one channel and solely put all your budget there. You might start with one channel but then you gotta grow it out. So for example, if you’re running a number of videos on Facebook, run them on YouTube, run them on LinkedIn, run them on twitter. Run them on various platforms and check across each because if Facebook is looking ridiculously good in terms of engagement, perhaps something’s wrong. And this could be any of the other platforms you know, it could be Twitter in the future, it could be LinkedIn, who knows? THey’re probably all gonna have problems, but at least by having multiple platforms that you’re using you can actually compare and work out some anomalies. But then, the main takeaway is you’ve gotta get them back to a conversion action. And by conversion action, we’re ultimately talking about getting an email address. If you can get that, that’s I guess, the goal at the end to compare across the channels.

– [Ian] All right, Craig, on top podcast of the week and this is a business casual podcast from Morning Brew. And Morning Brew is one of the probably of the emails we read every day.

– [Craig] I love this, in terms of a daily email newsletter. We’ve talked about this before. There’s not many I read every day.

– That’s right.

– Morning Brew’s one of them.

– [Ian] Anyway, they’ve got a great podcast and they’ve been interviewing some really interesting people so I would encourage you to listen to it. It just broadens your horizon on the different things people are out there doing and I love it.

– [Craig] Isn’t it interesting how these, we’ll call them news sites, are moving into other mediums? So, Morning Brew, moving away. Not away, but complimenting an email newsletter, which is what they’re famous for, with a podcast. I’m not sure where it was, Netflix maybe the other day, but New York Times, of course, and they have these little video documentaries. I think it’s called “15 Minutes.” Little stories by the New York Times turning what is a written piece into a video piece. And they’re all really good. So yeah, we’re seeing this move into other mediums.

– [Ian] All right, now we’ve got a couple of resources of the week, Craig. Ask Google webmasters, there was a question in there. Is it a problem if my page has multiple hitting one tags? And the answer is–

– The answer’s no. This actually came as a surprise to me ’cause as a longtime SEO, it’s always been look, just trying to have one H1, hitting one, that’s a hitting one, H1. I only have one H1 tag on your site and there still is good reason to do it ’cause Google looks at it as a sign of what this page–

– Hierarchy, right?

– Yeah, hierarchy. But yeah, Google is like no, have as many as you want, that’s fine, if it highlights important things, that’s good. Use it for readability. So we’ve got John Muir from Google Little Webmaster Hangout talking about that in the show notes.

– [Ian] Yeah, and listeners if you don’t know about John Muir and those hangouts that he does, I encourage you If you’re not in your business doing this, share this with the person that is. Because I think there’s some really good information in there that you can often use and pick up. And often a lot of myths get dispelled and what we often hear out there in the marketplace. If you listen to the source and go, oh, hang on, that’s just rubbish. You don’t have to worry about it, right? You don’t have to waste your time thinking about it.

– [Craig] Well, look, let me put a caveat on that. ‘Cause, you know, I’m always cynical about Google.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] When they give guidance like this, I’m like yeah, okay, that’s fine. But when they give some other guidance, sometimes, I’m like yeah, well, that seems to work well for Google, maybe not for people. Always be running ads on your brand. It’s like yeah, okay, so, I don’t know if that’s the best advice from Google, but yeah.

– [Ian] Anyway, test and measure, I say.

– [Craig] Test and measure.

– [Ian] All right, the quote of the week, Craig.

– [Craig] Okay, so why’d you pick this?

– [Ian] Well, I picked this because you gave me a book. It’s called “The Suit Book: Everything “You Need to Know about Wearing a Suit” by Clare Sheng. And one of the quotes in this book was “Dressing well is a form of good manners.” And it’s from Tom Ford. Now you’ve read this book and you really liked this book.

– [Craig] I really liked this book and and listeners, I’ll just say like I’m your typical nerdy geek, I dress badly… Well badly, I just, I dress comfortably.

– [Ian] Craig, let’s put it this way. You dress comfortably and every since I’ve know you, you have like this, let me say it, you’ve got five shirts that are all the same. But you probably have more, right?

– [Craig] I have 10 shirts.

– [Ian] 10 shirts that are all the same. He’s got 10 T-shirts that are all the same. He’s got three pairs of shoes that are all the same. So, if that’s any indication–

– [Craig] Look, It’s just efficiency. It’s easy. I’m not gonna pretend I’m Barack Obama or Zuckerberg, I’m so busy that it solves decisions. It’s just like it’s easy and it’s comfortable, right? So I’ve been like this anyway. I’m trying to dress better. Can you believe this?

– That’s right.

– I’m trying to lift my game.

– It’s good, I’m impressed.

– We’ll see how it goes.

– [Ian] So far, Craig has gone with a new pair of R.M. Williams. I’m really excited about that.

– [Craig] I’m trying to wear better shoes, better pants, I’m actually getting things tailored now. I don’t know. But anyways, we’ll see how it goes. Actually, why are we telling the listeners this? I don’t know if they need to know this but anyway, this book had an impact. Oh, I know what I was gonna say. ‘Cause this book had an impact on me because we were chatting before, ignorance is bliss.

– [Ian] That’s exactly right.

– [Craig] After reading this how to dress well, now I’m actually like oh my gosh. I’m badly dressed and I notice it all the time, and so ignorance was bliss when I didn’t know. Oh well, I’m trying to improve.

– [Ian] There we go, listeners. Now, there are a couple of bonus links in this show so I encourage you to check it out. What else can I say?

– [Craig] Test and measure.

– [Ian] Test and measure. Well Craig, until next time.

– [Craig] Catch ya later, Ian.

– [Ian] Thank you for listening to this episode of HubShots. For show notes, resources, HubSpot news including practical strategies you can implement, visit us as hubshots.com.


Episode 177: HubSpot Deal Stage Properties, Test and Measure (again), Changing your mind

Welcome to Episode 177 of Hubshots!

HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

This episode we chat about enforcing deal stage properties, setting social permissions for users, and why changing your mind is a good thing.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/177-hubspot-deal-stage-properties-test-and-measure-again-changing-your-mind/

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD3Uo4X-IxPJLE8ygPDQhNQ

Subscribe to our Spotify channel here: https://open.spotify.com/show/7oee8w41riN5aRNrLKT2ar

Join the Facebook group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/hubshots/

Follow us on Twitter here: https://twitter.com/hubshots

Follow us on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/hubshotspodcast/

Follow us on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hubshots/

Recorded: Tuesday 08 October 2019 | Published: Friday 25 October 2019

Shot 1: Growth Thought of the Week

Inbound Session tip, via Chris Higgins from Electric Monk in the UK:


Creating a Deal Lost category dropdown property and then making it mandatory to be filled when marking a deal as Closed Lost.

Hoping Chris chats about this in an upcoming episode of his Inbound Happy Hour podcast

https://wing.com/ – watch the video


Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Draft social post permissions (Enterprise Only)


This isn’t a new feature, but it is something that a number of people don’t realise.

Setting permissions for users to only be able to create Draft social posts – this is managed in User settings (not in Social settings):

Settings 14

A good use case is where a team member has access to your personal LinkedIn profile – you may only want to allow them to create draft posts on your behalf, that you then check before scheduling.

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

(Prompted by Chris Higgins’ note in Shot 1)

Setting Deal stage properties (Sales Pro)

Settings 16

Settings 15

Chris’ note is to make the Closed Lost reason a dropdown rather than a free form field.

Shot 4: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

Cloning Custom modules in the Design Tools

You go to a template, which has a custom module on it

You want to create a similar custom module, with just a few tweaks

So, on the template you clone the custom module

And then you edit the cloned custom module

You think you are editing a brand new version of the custom module

But actually you are editing the original custom module and the changes will show in both of the copies on your template

To clone a custom module ie so you can have a separate copy to customise, you need to find it in the list on the left hand side, and then clone it:

Design Manager   HubSpot 3

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

Test and Measure

Instagram changing stuff all the time:


Here’s the takeaway: even a massive company with more than a billion users is constantly refining their product because they realise they aren’t delivering an experience users actually want or use.

How do you analyse this in your own business/department?

Takeaway: review your analytics:

  • Which content is working?
  • Which landing pages are working?
  • Which leads are converting to customers?
  • Which emails are getting opened and clicked?


Shot 6: Insight of the Week

Changing Your Mind


Business is the one area of your life where you are paid to change your mind:


Business rewards thinking about things differently – often because it is the only way you’ll be able to stay in business.

Shot 7: Podcast of the Week

Pivot podcast with Scott Galloway and Kara Swisher



Interesting take on all things tech.

Shot 8: Resource of the Week

Email marketing tips


Shot 9: Quote of the Week

“The ratio of time you spend sweating to watching others sweat is a forward looking indicator of your success” – Scott Galloway – The Algebra of Happiness

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week





Tools I’m looking into:



Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

– [Ian] Hi everyone, welcome to “HubShots Episode 177.” In this episode we talk about HubSpot deal stages properties, testing and measuring again, and changing your mind. You’re listening to Asia-Pacific’s number one HubSpot focused podcast, where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks and features for growing your marketing and sales results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search and Be Found, and with me is Craig Baily from XEN systems, hi Craig.

– [Craig] Oh good, and you know what I’d love? I’d love to get a delivery by a drone.

– Yes

– You were telling me over dinner tonight, ’cause you were just down in Canberra this weekend.

– That’s right.

– And they’re testing deliveries of incredibly important items.

– [Ian] Doughnuts and coffee, Craig. Plus there are a few other things, some stuff you can get at the chemist. Now, why I’m telling you this is because my mom, who works for the government, hi Mom. And she looks after, she’s part of the team that looks after airports and air spaces. So she was like “Oh, they’re testing drone delivery” and I’m like “What are they delivering?” She said “Oh, you know what the most popular thing is? “Coffee and doughnuts.” And so what they’ve done, they based an industrial area not far from where my mom lives, and they’re delivering to a particular, like a couple of suburbs within that location. I would say flight time no more than about three to five minutes for delivery. And they’re testing it out in Canberra, and it’s gonna be rolled out, so they’re just working out A: what they can be delivering, how they’re managing airspace noise, and so on and so forth. And it’s by a company called, I think it’s called Wing. So, I’ll put the link in the show notes.

– [Craig] These are gonna be everywhere before you know it, aren’t they? It’s gonna be interesting logistics. I mean, we all saw that video from Amazon years ago when that was flying about, and everyone laughed at it. And I guess that kind of did set the scene, but

– Here we are.

– Here we are, and so

– Head down to Canberra.

– This’ll all just be normal soon. So yeah, I don’t know what that’s got to do with HubSpot or marketing, but it’s a very interesting.

– But you know what this is? I was looking at their website, and I think they were saying it’s about giving people access to products that, local businesses access to delivery of their product to people nearby. So, you kinda think, as I was telling you before, this is a good opportunity for businesses, that are local businesses that need to get product distribution, to have that ability to get the product distribution into the hands of people that want it.

– [Craig] Well this is absolutely right. It won’t be long before Google My Business listing, on the things, it’ll have one of the items which says it’ll support drone delivery as something for locals. So yeah, it’s very big for local business.

– [Ian] Yeah so, and you think about how search, we know looking at all the stats, generally people that search in a local area, will generally visit the store within an hour of that search. So, just think about this, if they could get it delivered without visiting the store, and they go “Oh, hang on, we know that store’s got it, “just want it delivered.” Yep, click the button, here we go.

– [Craig] Doughnuts ahoy, so good.

– [Ian] So there you have it. Now Craig, the GroWth Thought of the Week.

– [Craig] Oh, great tip. You know we were chatting with Chris Higgins, hey, shout-out to Chris from Electric Monk in the UK, he was at Inbound.

– [Ian] It’s nice to have friends that are right across the globe. Isn’t it, Craig?

– It is, it is so good. And another fellow podcaster, so he’s, I think we chatted about his podcast

– A while back.

– a little while back. He needs to just increase the frequency just a tad, I’d say. So Chris, I know that’s a, you got plans for a bit of an Inbound recap, so hopefully listeners, by the time you hear our episode, Chris will have recorded another one. But yeah, “Inbound Happy Hour.” Anyway, I got a bit off track then, because what I was gonna say is, we were chatting on email about what was some of his takeaways from Inbound. Said he went to a really cool session around workflows for automating some of those boring sales tasks. I was like “Oh, yeah, okay.” Anyway, he had this really cool idea that a checkbox on a contact record, so the use case would be “Oh yeah, I know that person’s just moved.” Hit a checkbox. That goes into workflow, and actually sets up some automatic tasks assigned to you, or perhaps the contact owner to follow up. So, it’s just one of those things about making sure things don’t fall through the gaps. Anyway, that was a really cool idea. That was on, we’re emailing backwards and forwards. Anyway, then he, onto what I was actually gonna mention in the show, ’cause I just went off on another tangent then, as how I’m want to do. The other thing he was saying is, actually, what was he talking about?

– It was about the deal.

– Oh yeah, creating. Totally getting offtrack. Creating a deal property. So, you might talk about this, cause when we were discussing it earlier, I said “Oh, just seen this idea from Chris” He goes “Ah.” You were actually saying, Ian, “Oh yeah, I’m doing that with one of my clients, “and it works really well.” So, maybe mention what the tip is, and how you’ve implemented it.

– [Ian] Correct, so this is having a contact property where when a deal is lost, you actually find out the lost reason.

– [Craig] Oh, so it’s actually a deal property, not a contact property. Yeah, I’ve gotcha, okay.

– [Ian] Now, you can obviously copy it in there, but when the property’s actually having defined why things get lost in the business that we work alongside with, we know over time of the last year of working with them, we know why they lose deals. Could be budgetary constraints, could be they’ve gone with another builder, maybe they’ve actually lost their job recently, so might actually go on hold. But it might be a reason to get out of that sales pipeline. And so, what we were gonna do is if once we can collect that, what we can actually do is run automation after that to say “Okay well, if we lost it for this particular reason, “let’s maybe send them a ANPS survey “to figure out would that you refer us to friends.” And that’s how we’re using this deal property.

– [Craig] Very cool, so actually there’s a whole bunch of things to unpack here. So the first is, on a deal, you can actually, and we would chat about this in shot three, can sat up a property that must be filled out.

– [Ian] If you have Sales Professional.

– [Craig] Oh, this is Sales Pro, is it? Okay, that’s good to know. But here’s one of the key things, and this was Chris’s main takeaway. Make it a dropdown rather than a free text field, ’cause in our HubSpot portal we actually have it as free text for just putting stuff in. And the key was, that’s actually almost unusable in a way, unless you’re very carefully going through. So, make it a dropdown, so that was cool, but then your point, which is yeah, if you’ve got service hub, you can tap into that based on a deal, and send out further surveys. So yeah, we’ll draw into that coming up in shot three.

– [Ian] All right, on to our HubShot Marketing Feature of the Week, Craig. Draft social post permissions, and this is Enterprise only, Marketing Hub.

– [Craig] Yeah, Marketing Hub. Now, this is not a new feature. It’s been around for a while, actually I think. But something that I wanted to remind listeners of, ’cause I was just talking about this with a client. So the point is, let’s say you have someone on your team managing social for you, and they’re doing it through HubSpot. Now, some people on your team you might trust more than others for various reasons, for various good reasons. And so, for some people, let’s say they’re a junior, maybe they’ve just started. They don’t know, they haven’t understood voice of the company fully. So, you only give them draft privileges. They create draft social posts, and then you’d go back and actually review them before scheduling them out. And so, where I thought this was a really good example, and where it is in our client’s case is, their CEO’s LinkedIn personal profile is managed through HubSpot, and so we don’t want just anyone coming in, posting on the CEO’s behalf, straight on out on their personal profile. By the way, fine to do it on their company profile or other channels, but of course, on LinkedIn. So, there is a case where actually having most of your team as draft only on social might be worth wanting. So, show notes, we’ve got a screenshot. And yeah, implement if that’s a good match for your use case.

– [Ian] All right, Craig, the HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week, and this is thanks to Chris. It’s about the deal stage properties. And so, just be aware, this is to do with Sales Professional. So, if you wanna actually make things mandatory, or make them required fields when they’re filling this out, then you’d have Sales Professional. And one of the things that you would do is select a closed lost reason and a closed lost date. So, that’s really important, and then obviously you can use that in other things like Service Hub, for doing what you need to do. So, great takeaway, and if you can, obviously, make that a dropdown, the closed lost reason.

– [Craig] Cool, thanks Chris, and yeah, a few screenshots in the show notes there.

– [Ian] All right Craig, now HubShot Gotcha of the Week. It’s about cloning custom modules in the design tools. Now, why are we talking about this as a gotcha, tell me.

– Well, because it–

– It got you!

– [Craig] Well, yeah, got us out this week. I’ll give you the scenario. You’re working on a template, right? So a webpage page template. So you go into design tools, you’re in the template, and let’s say there’s a custom module in there, and you’re going “Oh, okay cool, “I’m actually gonna get that custom module, “but I wanna tweak it a bit.” So, you’re in the template, you’ll just go “Ah, I’ll just clone “this custom module in the template. “Okay, now there’s two versions on the template, “but this second one, I’m actually gonna customize. “I’m actually gonna change some things about it, “maybe styles are applied to it or whatever.” So you go edit, custom module, source, and so then you go in there, and you make your changes. So what would you expect to happen In that case?

– Is this after you’ve cloned it?

– [Craig] Okay, so first of all, what do you think cloning means?

– [Ian] Taking an exact copy of it.

– [Craig] Right, so I’ve just cloned it on the template.

– [Ian] Okay, you’ve got a different, you’ve got another custom module on the template.

– [Craig] Well, no, all I’ve done is duplicated it.

– [Ian] Dupiclated the module, yes.

– [Craig] Here’s the confusion. Have I cloned it, or have I just duplicated it on the template? In fact, all I’ve done is duplicated it. I’ve got one custom module, but it’s appearing twice.

– Correct, yes.

– [Craig] Okay, so then, and here’s what’s happened. They’ve gone “Oh, okay.” On this second one, I’ll open that up, edit the source for that custom module, change it, expecting that to work differently. Come back to the template, both of them have changed. Okay, so it’s a bit of a gotcha. So, here’s the point. You actually haven’t cloned to a new custom module. You’ve just got the same custom module twice on your template. If you want to actually clone, like make another version of the custom module…

– [Ian] You have to go back to the file view to clone it, am I right?

– [Craig] Exactly. On the list on the left hand side going right click, I’ll get a screenshot of that. So, it’s a combat cloning and cloning, yeah, can get you caught up.

– [Ian] It’s actually duplication and cloning.

– [Craig] It’s duplicating and cloning, that’s right. But quite often, you’ll talk about something, you’ll just say “Oh, I’ll make a copy of that.” What am I talking about? Am I talking about cloning or am I talking about duplicating? Very confusing, so Gotcha of the Week, I guess the take away is well, know the terminology, but also understand the intent and make sure, yeah, it can catch you out. Hopefully we’ll save one listener sometime.

– [Ian] Yes, that’s right. All right Craig, onto our marketing tip of the week, and this is something we go on about a lot, is about testing and measuring, because things change so rapidly, right? In this, we’re gonna talk about Instagram changing stuff all the time, and USGC on Google as well. Stuff changing all the time. But what did you wanna highlight on Instagram, Craig?

– [Craig] Well, it doesn’t actually really matter what they’ve changed in Instagram, but I’ll tell you what it is anyway. They’re actually removing a part of what followers are doing, well, people that you follow.

– [Ian] Correct, what you’re following, right?

– [Craig] What you’re following, what they’re doing, you can see what they’re liking and that kinda thing. So, it’s a feature in Instagram, its got its own tab actually.

– Correct.

– So, they’re removing that.

– It used to have its own tab.

– Well yeah. They’re removing that because A: no one really used it, but B: you could kinda see some weird things that your friends are doing. Like, why are they kinda liking certain types of posts?

– Yes

– Things like that. So it was kind of a bit of an insight into what your friends are doing, and perhaps your friends having an insight into what you’re doing. Oh my goodness. You know what all my friends, well, I don’t, as you know I’ve got a private Instagram account that no one really can roll over it. All they would see me is liking pictures of cute puppies. They’d be like “Who is this guy? “All he’s rolling is cute puppies.” Oh my goodness. Anyway, so they’re taking it out. That’s a whole aside. Why am I talking about this? Here’s my point. The point is that Instagram, with more than a billion users, massive company, they’re always testing, and they’re actually finding these things that we thought were a great idea. And that I think has been in the product almost since day one.

– A long time, yes.

– [Craig] Yeah, been in there for ages. They actually realized, no, it’s not a good fit. So, if a massive company can’t get it right and has to change continually to remove things that people don’t want, and just shouldn’t have been in there in the first place, then what chance have you got of getting it right? Therefore my point, always be testing and measuring. And so, got a few points about, well what are some of the things you should be reviewing, mainly by looking at analytics, because do you think, how do you think Instagram found out no people were using it? They’ve got all this telemetry on what people are doing, right? HubSpot must do that all the time, that’s why they removed some of our favorite features. We miss you keyword tool. But anyway, what are some of the things that we could be just checking by looking at analytics?

– [Ian] Well, I think the simplest thing is what content is working, and even what channels are working for you. Another one would be what landing pages are working, and which leads are converting into customers. And this is really good for understanding which sources those leads are coming from, and which one of those are converting into customers. And one of the other ones is which emails are getting opened and clicked.

– [Craig] So, pretty simple stuff you can look at. You can look at google analytics, just look at your HubSpot analytics, look at some of those reports.

– Correct

– [Craig] Make sure you’re paying attention.

– [Ian] That’s right, because you just kinda think, I’ll highlight this with a customer we put Hotjar on a couple of weeks ago, and I sat down with him after we clicked through some data, and I showed it to them. They go “Oh, that’s really interesting. “We have this big banner at the top, “and everyone has to scroll past this banner “to get to stuff.” And they’re like “Oh, do we really need that there? “Why don’t we just get rid of the banner “and put some important information at the top?” Well yeah, that’s a good idea. But again, you would not have known that if you didn’t actually have anything to track it and look at what people were doing, and the behavior of people using the site, you would not have that insight.

– [Craig] I read this fascinating article on Conversion XL the other day.

– Yes?

– [Craig] Where they were looking at, oh, we should put this in the show notes, we’ll find the link. But they were at your key points about your business, like what you do. I’ve forgotten the term for it, kinda like key value offerings. And they did this testing, heatmap testing, where they used three different layouts. One they just had three bullet points at the top, we do this, this, and this. Next, they had three bullet points with paragraphs, like a paragraph on each explaining what their core offering was. And then the third, they had these big long paragraphs, so big chunky ones. And they looked at that to see what gave the best recall. You know, they were doing this testing across a whole bunch of people. And I’ll cut to the chase, they found–

– What was the result, Craig?

– [Craig] The second one, a bullet point that had a paragraph underneath it, so the idea being, but not too long, so it was like a sentence or two explaining it. So it’s just like, here’s the core offering and here’s what it means. So very, very quickly, I guess, interpreted for you. Here’s the benefit that you’re gonna get. If it was just a bullet point, people were like, they had to think for themselves, which you know, of course.

– Had to process, yes.

– [Craig] Yeah, and then the end one, they’re too bored by the end of it.

– Correct.

– [Craig] So, just that, anyway, that came around from testing. So, back to your test and measure.

– [Ian] All right Craig, Insight of the Week, changing your mind. And this is about an article on spectator.com

– [Craig] Yeah, on the Spectator. Oh, this is so good. Rory Sutherland, I’ve been reading a lot of his stuff. And he talks about, amongst many that I really like, just think about this idea of changing your mind. Do you think it’s okay to change your mind?

– [Ian] Yeah, I think now that I’ve got a bit of experience, I would say yes. Growing up I would have said no.

– [Craig] What about if you’re a politician, do you think it’s okay to change your mind? I’ll answer for you, no. There’s no way you wanna be subject to changing your mind, ’cause ah, you’re flip-flopping. There’s lots of areas where you don’t wanna change your mind.

– That’s right.

– [Craig] Business is one key area where you do wanna be changing your mind all the time, and so this article is just prompting this whole point, that it’s actually the one place you get paid to change your mind. And I love that.

– That’s fascinating

– [Craig] Further to that, it’s one place where you almost need to be changing your mind, or in the future, you won’t be getting paid.

– [Ian] Yeah, and I think one of the key things you pull, business rewards thinking about things differently, often because it’s the only way you are able to stay in business. Absolute gold, now the Podcast of the Week, Craig. It’s a “Pivot” podcast by Scott Galloway and Kara Swisher.

– [Craig] Scott Galloway, have I mentioned Scott Galloway to you?

– [Ian] You have mentioned Scott Galloway.

– Oh, I just read his book recently, “The Algebra of Happiness”

– Yes.

– [Craig] Almost need a quote of the week for that, Ian.

– [Ian] It’ll be coming up, Craig.

– [Craig] I just thought it was such a good book.

– [Ian] What was the key takeaway, Craig?

– [Craig] Well, he looks at your life, and various parts of your life, and we do have a quote later from it, which I think just captures it really well. Know when you read a book, and the timing is just right for you?

– Yes.

– [Craig] It’s rare, but I love it when that kind of overlap, almost that little Venn diagram of the right time and the right book, and them banging. ‘Cause I could have read this book a couple of months ago, or I could read it next year, and I’d probably go “Oh, this is a pretty lame book, “it’s not great.” But I just read it last week, and I was just like “Oh, this is so good.” I remember I was sending you screenshots from it.

– You were.

– [Craig] Sending you screenshots, it’s so good. Anyway, what was–

– And It was so good, Craig, you actually didn’t ask for a refund on Amazon, did you?

– [Craig] No, I didn’t ask for a refund, thanks. Listeners will know from listening to earlier shows, when I hate books on Amazon, which thankfully happens very rarely, they give you a refund for it. It’s just the best thing. Anyway, he’s got a podcast as well. Oh, by the way, I should tell you what he does.

– What does he do, Craig?

– He kinda analyzes technology and Kara Swisher, she runs the site Recode.

– Ah, yes.

– Yeah, with Walt Mossberg. They’re both very famous technology journalists and analysts. So, she has the podcast with Scott Galloway, and they talk about technology, and Scott Galloway has just been absolutely relentless on the WeWork debacle. So, if you’ve been reading stuff from Scott Galloway around WeWork.

– [Ian] You know what, after you shared that book, I actually started listening to that podcast, and I listened to that exact episode.

– Oh really?

– And I absolutely loved it.

– Yeah.

– So listeners, hear my, I got taken by surprise here on the show notes, but I think when you just explain that, what a good podcast it was. I definitely second Craig and say have a listen to that, because you will learn some stuff that’s actually fascinating.

– [Craig] The podcast is called “Pivot”

– [Ian] All right Craig, now in our Resource of the Week, we’ve got some email marketing tips, and this is off the Databox blog. It’s how to do effective tips for experienced digital marketers, email marketing. So take it out, I’ll tell you why this is great, because email marketing is such a key revenue driver for business. I know we’d send businesses we work with, when we send an email, especially for high end, luxury goods, that one email could generate them 100, 200, $300,000 worth of business, off that one email. And even other businesses that sell cleaning equipment, all sorts of things in the vast variety of people that we deal with, always yields something. Even if the person it goes to has moved on, they’ll get a response saying “Oh, they’re not here, talk to this person.” And that starts a conversation, so I think doing this right, and doing it well, and understanding behavior is a really key aspect to this.

– [Craig] Look, can I just have a little bit of a rant about email marketing? Email marketing is so good, but have you been to talks lately where people say “Oh, we don’t use landing pages and gated content anymore, “it’s all about conversational marketing, “and the chat bots and things like that.” And I’m like “Sure, that’s fine, “not gonna disagree with that.” But then they say “Just forget having gated content “and people signing up for emails, it doesn’t work.” And I’m like “Yeah, I think it does.” And this is why we still do e-box, we work across a bunch of industries, and getting emails build the list, the money is in the list. As I used to say like, what, 20 years ago?

– Correct

– It’s still true, because email marketing works. And articles like this on Databox, where they talk about how to optimize your email marketing are even, therefore, really valuable. What other means can you reach that many people, and get that much cut through. Sure, do the chat bots, and build your messenger marketing, and things like that. Of course, do it, but not at the exclusion, it’s not one or the other. Email marketing is still really alive and well.

– [Ian] Diversity is the key, Craig. All right, Craig, onto our Quote of the Week. “The ratio of time you spend sweating “to watching others sweat is a forward looking indicator “of your success.” And this is from Scott Galloway, from the book “The Algebra of Happiness” Do you wanna elaborate, Craig?

– [Craig] I think it’s pretty self explanatory, but his book is more along those lines. It’s kind of, “The Algebra of Happiness,” its kind of rules for living. And oh, shock horror, you’ve gotta work really hard if you want to get really good results and things like that. I guess I’m very cynical of these work smarter, not harder kinda books, as if you don’t have to do both. They kinda think it’s one or the other. “Oh, all these dummies that are working harder.” No, people are working smarter and working harder. It’s like the norm these days, right? So, his book is in line with that, work really hard, but also, he’s actually big on family now, and relationships. He’s got this wonderful part in it where he talks about how he spent seven months with his mother as she was dying from cancer. And he got to spend that time with her, and let her die and pass with dignity, and really about, it’s just so. Yeah, just read it, it’s just such a good book.

– [Ian] Excellent, now Craig, there are some tools you’re looking at this week. One being Seismic, and the other one being Bitwarden.

– [Craig] Oh man, Seismic, have you seen this?

– [Ian] I have heard of it, I haven’t actually looked at it.

– [Craig] Oh yeah, this is about attribution of your content, right through the marketing to sales. But I’ll talk to you about it offline. I’m really checking it out. I think this is gonna be big.

– [Ian] Fantastic, now listeners, I hope you’ve enjoyed the show. We’d love you to leave us some feedback on Apple Podcasts, and any other platform you listen to this on. And we would love you to share with somebody on your team, or somebody else that you know, that would either be HubSpot or considering using HubSpot. This greatly helps us reach more people. Well Craig, until next time.

– [Craig] Catch you later, Ian. Hey there, thanks for listening to this episode of “HubShots.” For show notes, and the latest HubSpot news and tips, please visit us at hubshots.com ♪ Daddy’s girl ♪


Episode 176: Enterprise Attribution reporting in HubSpot

Welcome to Episode 176 of Hubshots!

HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

This episode we chat about enterprise attribution reporting. Getting emails into HubSpot CRM, Plus is Boris Johnson secretly an SEO guru?

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/hubshots-176/

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD3Uo4X-IxPJLE8ygPDQhNQ

Subscribe to our Spotify channel here: https://open.spotify.com/show/7oee8w41riN5aRNrLKT2ar

Join the Facebook group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/hubshots/

Follow us on Twitter here: https://twitter.com/hubshots

Follow us on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/hubshotspodcast/

Follow us on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hubshots/

Recorded: Thursday 03 October 2019 | Published: Friday 18 October 2019

Shot 1: Growth Thought of the Week


AUGUST 18-21, 2020 | BOSTON, MA


Interesting organisation of the registration page

INBOUND 2019   Register

The weather in Boston is beautiful in August:


Shout out to Josh from okcloudy.com.

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Enterprise Attribution Reporting (in beta)


Loving the direction this new Attribution reporting is heading in.

Drill into Deal and then pivot based on sources, content types, content titles, etc

And then drill into the Individual interactions.

You learn some amazing insights based on previous interactions eg check out this journey from initial contact in 2013 through to a deal in 2019:

attribution 1 2

attribution 2

attribution 3

Use the different attribution models to allocate out the attribution across the interactions – I’m really liking the linear model – here’s some example differences:

attribution models

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

How to get incoming emails into CRM

To log incoming emails into the CRM, forward them to this email address (123456@forward.hubspot.com), which is your HubSpot Portal ID. Emails forwarded to this address will be attached to any matching contacts. If no contact is found, a new one will be created.


Setup to never log emails from addresses you define in the Email integrations > Log and Track settingsSettings 13

Settings 12Shot 4: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

Changing Contact property setup, that is used in a Form

If your form uses a field directly based on a Contact Property eg a dropdown list, be aware that changing it at the property level will immediately impact all forms that use it

Can be misleading if you go to edit a form, choose to edit the property, but don’t yet Publish the form.

You may be surprised when you see it live straight away.

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

Quick implementation with your minimum viable site/product

With Real life anecdote

Shot 6: Insight of the Week

Boris Johnson SEO Expert

boris bus




Shot 8: Resource of the Week

Improve your digital window to the world – a useful tool to understand what Google is looking at when it evaluates site.

Grow My Store


Shot 9: Quote of the Week

Test and measure

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week

YouTube optimisation tips for SEO:






Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.


Episode 176 transcription

– [Ian] Hi, everyone, welcome to HubShots, episode 176. In this episode, we chat about enterprise attribution reporting, getting emails into HubSpot CRM, plus, is Boris Johnson secretly an SEO guru, Craig? You’re listening to Asia Pacific’s number one HubSpot focus podcast where we discuss HubSpot’s tips, tricks, and features for growing your sales and marketing results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search and Be Found, and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. How are you, Craig?

– [Craig] Oh, really good, and wow, what a packed show we’ve got tonight, and I am so excited about this attribution reporting.

– [Ian] I know.

– [Craig] So we’ll get to that in a second.

– [Ian] All right, so now, we’re gonna have our very first growth thought of the week, Craig.

– [Craig] Grow better, Ian.

– [Ian] That’s right, because you know what, INBOUND is, it’s still there.

– [Craig] It’s actually still called INBOUND.

– [Ian] It is.

– [Craig] It’s got that going for it.

– [Ian] And HubSpot is now a platform, and it’s all about growing better, hence the growth thought of the week.

– [Craig] So this used to be called our INBOUND thought of the week, now, it’s our growth thought of the week, is it? And what are we, we’re just, well, basically, we’re just breaking INBOUND anyway.

– [Ian] That’s right, so INBOUND in 2020 is actually earlier in the year, August 18th to 21 in Boston, and you can register, now is a good time. Now, one of the interesting things that I was looking at on the registration page is how they’ve organized it and how they’ve changed the names of some of these tickets from prior years, and I used the Wayback Machine to go and have a look to see what else they had done in prior years. And it’s actually really fascinating, and I’ve a brought a screenshot there how they’ve laid out the pricing page or the registration page with the pricing, and before, it was like a typical pricing page. You know, you got lunch, you got this access to the sessions, you got priority seating, and you had ticks in certain columns. And now, it’s kinda similar, but it’s really interesting how they’ve broken it up, they’ve broken it up into four main categories: inspiration, connection, education, and experience. And they’ve kind of grouped all the features that they’re giving people under these four main areas. What they used to call the VIP Pass is now called a Power Pass, which is another interesting change in how they’re referring, or how they’re trying to be inclusive of people. Maybe VIP just sounded a bit too yesterday, and so now, we’re talking about power, so there you go.

– [Craig] Just gets better and better each year. I haven’t been for a number of years now, but I’m tempted to go back in 2020. I was looking at the weather, and August is kind of like–

– It’s gonna be good, great.

– The pick of the month, it’s beautiful weather in Boston in August.

– [Ian] Perfect to enjoy some clam chowder, and lobster rolls.

– Ah! Lobster rolls and clam chowder, gee, that was the best.

– [Ian] If you’re interested in going, now’s a good time to book, you’ll get a very big discount.

– [Craig] The prices are pretty good actually, yeah.

– [Ian] Yeah, you know what, looking at it over the last years, it hasn’t really increased if you book early. All right, second thing, I’m gonna say a shout out to Josh from okcloudy.com. Thanks for contacting us, Josh, it was good to talk to you and try and help you out. And you know what, we love listeners that reach out to us, don’t we, Craig?

– [Craig] Yes, we do, shout out to Josh.

– [Ian] All right, Craig, onto our HubSpot marketing feature of the week which is the enterprise attribution reporting, and now this is in beta for enterprise portals.

– [Craig] Yes, just to be very clear, this enterprise hub, enterprise marketing hub.

– [Ian] Marketing.

– [Craig] So I’ve been looking forward to this for a while and this is, initial signs are good, as they say, so this is looking good in enterprise reporting. I’ve started playing with it just this afternoon, so I’ve only spent a couple of hours on it so far, but I was very impressed with what I saw. In particular, the way you can drill down on the journey to a deal. Now, we’ve linked to the knowledge base article which just tells you a little bit about it, and there’s a nice video which they walk you through, as well. But in essence, you’re setting up a list of deals to look backwards on. So you’re starting with the deals, and then, working backwards to how you arrive at the deals. And you can do that by a number of ways, deal types, you know, deal pipelines, things like that, content, content types. Now, this is the one that really interests me. And so what you can then do is start drilling into the deals, and I really love this drill-down piece. And you and I were going through one of our deals. I was looking at this, and I was like, “All right!” So that actually, the content types attached to it. It actually started with some email marketing and, well, I’ve got screenshots in the show notes, folks, so you can check this out. This one particular deal started with a contact in 2013. Then you can see the history of them responding to some of my newsletters and automatic marketing workflows, right through, til then you see them coming back to the site pate use and then, bang, or request a meeting, then a deal getting created right through to a deal closing. It’s just a fascinating journey and if you’d said to me before, you know that deal you did earlier this year, I’d go, oh yeah, how’d they find out about you? I’d go, ah, well, I think it was such-and-such. The data doesn’t lie, you can go back and drill into this stuff; I just found it fascinating.

– [Ian] It’s very powerful, isn’t it, Craig? And I think what was really interesting is to see that person’s journey over time, how they responded to your email marketing, the pages they visited on the site, and then what led to them actually requesting a meeting and booking that with you. So, you know what, it just goes to show, people are all on a journey, they’re not ready to buy right now and it’s all these little touchpoints along the way that’s actually making them get to where they are. Now, there are different models which was interesting in this whole attribution reporting, the model that I had never heard of like the U-model and the W-model. The ones that were most commonly known which you probably see in Google Ads is like the linear, the first touch, last touch, and if a few others which is really interesting. So, it goes to show, models that you obviously utilize also place different importance on all those touch points. So, something to be aware of but this is a great start. I’m really excited to see this.

– [Craig] I am too. So, I actually, this is the start of something big because I’ll just highlight, in the individual interactions, which you go back reviewing, there’s, of course, the marketing pieces. Well, one of them is sales emails, so you can actually see, well, in our deals, they often, the sales email is a key part towards the end of the deal, right, which kind of makes sense. That would definitely be the case in B2B, less so in B2C, of course, but you can actually drill in and see it and one of the, and I actually am going to choose linear, I think, for my attribution, by default.

– [Ian] Yep.

– [Craig] Because apportions it even across all the interactions.

– Correct.

– [Craig] And that’s the way I would start but you know what I’d like to see in this in the future is being able to tailor the attribution based on content types. So, I’d like to actually give some attribution to marketing because there’s multiple touches of, say, email marketing or automated marketing. So, multiple touches along the way, and if you see the journey on the screenshots I’ve got, you see how it’s apportioned out meaningly but I’d almost like to say apportioning a piece per a type because then you could see, well, if there was a lot more of that interaction that went on, that it actually contributed a lot more in terms of the revenue contribution. All that kind of breakdown and customizing, I’m assuming that’s going to come, that’s the real power. But for some of our clients, especially in B2B when they’re look at this whole ABM approach, the account-based marketing, trying to look at, well, what part did marketing play versus sales and how they interact and the timelines, it’s getting there. Like, it’s not there yet but it’s getting there. I think this is really powerful and I can tell just from the way they’ve laid it out, you can tell this is how HubSpot is using it, to analyze the deals and look back. Oh, the other thing I’ll highlight, and you’ll see this from the screenshots is, why is this different, say, to just revering a contact timeline? It’s because, you get the deal, it’s pulling in all the contacts and so you actually see them interacting. So it’s almost like a deal timeline in a way but you see them interacting on the key interactions that contribute overall to the deal. Just seeing that in one place and being able to drill, it’s really cool, like, this is really cool. And for high ticket items, you know, if you’ve got clients or you’re a business which has high ticket items, so you’ve not got thousands of deals but maybe you’ve got hundreds or tens, you would actually go into each deal, drill back, check the attribution, oh, I’ll change the attribution model, I’ll just see how it plays out. Oh, how did paid advertising fit into this, et cetera, et cetera. You would just spend a day a month doing this and the insights you’re going to get and the way this pulls it all together, this is really cool. Like, this is big.

– [Ian] All right, Craig, go to HubSpots sales, feature of the week. And this is how to get incoming emails into CRM. Why I’m going to tell you this is that I’ve had a few people this week ask me this question because we’ve been implementing CRM in a few businesses, one of them moving from Salesforce into HubSpot, and the other one moving from not actually having any CRM into HubSpot. But what’s really interesting is that there are certain things because people have obviously got lots of stuff and they’re like, well, how do I get this email in; so, obviously, the really simple way is if you’ve got the HubSpot’s sales ad in your email, reply and go in. Let’s say we don’t want that but we want to store something against that contact but we’re not replying to it and it might have happened previously. There’s actually a forward address which is usually your portal ID at Forward.HubSpot.com and that will forward it into and put against the contact record. And if the contact record doesn’t exist, it’ll create it like it usually does. So be aware of that. Here’s a bonus: do you remember when you’ve got the sales ad in or HubSpot sales extension? You actually have to check your login track settings and you put down, generally, let’s say you don’t want emails in your business to be tracked, so you put down, I don’t want to log anything that is at Xen.com.au, right.

– [Ian] Like internal emails, yep.

– [Craig] So now, you can actually do this in the settings of the login track section within your portal where it’ll never log emails in this domain or that email address. So, I’d encourage you to actually do that in your portal, if you’ve actually got that set up.

– [Ian] That’s good, so you’re highlighting that because it didn’t use to be there, as far as we know. You could do it at the email client end, in the plugin, but, yeah.

– Correct.

– [Ian] Within the portal, I don’t know, or maybe it has been there, we just didn’t notice it but when you pointed this out, I was like, no, I didn’t know about that.

– [Craig] Well, I only stumbled upon it when everyone was asking me questions.

– [Ian] It’s almost like bug bound to you, you know, you’re hunting for something, like, oh yeah, here’s a cool new setting just hidden away in HubSpot, it’s great.

– So, there you have it.

– [Ian] That’s the sales pitch of the week and, Craig, onto our HubSpot gotcha of the week is…

– [Craig] This is by design, so this is not a bug but it is a gotcha. So, I had this with a client, we’ve got a landing page that’s got a form on it and the form includes a field which is where you can select, I’m interested in XYZed, tick, tick, tick, and that’s a contact property. Anyway, so she was saying I want to add an item to the list, I was like, yep, sure, walking her through. Okay, edit the page; okay, good. Edit the page, right, now click on the form, great. Edit the form, oh, okay. So now I’m taken to the form editor, great. Okay, click on that field, okay. Oh, now, that’s actually based no a property, I’ll go and edit the property. Click and that opens the property editor. Oh, good, so I’ll just add that in here, yeah, that’s fine. So, adds the new entry, goes back to form editor, okay. Should I publish this now because we don’t want this going live till next week? I’m like, oh no, well don’t publish now. All right, go back to the page, refresh, oh, it’s there. So, you followed the flow, you can see that use case. Now, I was like oh, why has this happened? Oh, it’s a contact a property, it’s not actually just a property in the form because, remember, in the form, her user experience is, I’m editing the form, I haven’t clicked publish or update on the form. As far as I’m concerned, I’m just still editing the form. And, bang, that is live because the form is based on a contact property.

– That’s right.

– [Craig] So that’s the gotcha, folks, be aware of that. If you’re editing a form that’s using a field based on a property, contact property in settings, then any changes to that property will go live and sitewide wherever it’s used on any form immediately.

– [Ian] It’s funny, when you spoke about this, I was like, I’d be working through a stack of forms and workflows and a whole bunch of things with a customer this week because they’ve changed their mind and a few things. Like, oh, we want this to say this and I’ve noticed this happening, so I was well aware of it but it can catch people out, so be aware of that. All right, Craig, onto our marketing tip of the week.

– [Craig] And I want to talk about this is about having quick implementation with your minimum viable site, if you’re talking about websites or your product. So you probably know that, over time, people had to build, like, the way we do stuff has totally changed and the way we create things, the way we interact, the way we test and measure, one of the things we talk about often is testing and measuring what we’re doing, so we actually have a base that we start off at and we try to start off quite quickly, we don’t wait around for things and we try to get things live, we try to test it, we try to drive traffic, we test, we change, we iterate, so we use things like hot-jah to do stuff. But why I want to highlight this is because I’ve been stuck with a customer of ours trying to get things right. And just not going live and saying, oh, I need to change this email now, I want to change this site, I don’t like the way this button looks. And we’ve been ready for a while and you’re kinda going, we’ll what are we doing, we should be testing this because we can actually iterate and test things and make things better. What should you do if this is happening? You need to actually be aware or have a really clear goal of what you want to see happen. And I think when haven’t got a really clear goal and a timeframe of when you want to see things live, you can continue changing stuff forever. Like, you can always find things to change and fix. It’s the whole 80/20 rule or 99/1 as I would say here, is that you need to get that thing live. If you don’t, you’re going to miss the boat. Like, people have come and gone and finished before that started.

– [Ian] It’s almost like, if only there were an approach to this that people could follow, some new approach to web development; we should really get on to Luke Summerfield about this.

– That’s right.

– [Ian] People might remember that. I think our very first episode was–

– [Craig] It was about growth-driven design.

– [Ian] And it’s exactly this approach of getting a minimum viable site live and then iterating based on testing and iterating based on data, based on actual it’s working. And you’re absolutely right, the people that sit there until they get, they think the site’s perfect, to holding off and holding off until it’s perfect, it’s like, well, for starters, their view of what perfect is never matches what the market’s view is. But, too, it’s almost like it’s, oh, I don’t want to take money yet, I will not take money yet, please do not give me money yet, I’m just holding off and, you know, and so, and it’s also frustrating for us working with clients and, well, you, in this case. So yeah, so what’s the takeaway here? It’s about actually finding that balance, isn’t it?

– [Craig] Correct, totally.

– [Ian] You don’t want to put a site out there that’s rubbish–

– Rubbish.

– [Ian] And a bad perception, of course, we’re not saying that and typos and, of course, fix all that kind of stuff but this idea of finessing and making layouts absolutely perfect or CTO wording or stuff absolutely perfect, you’ve got to get over yourself and get it out there and I’m almost preaching to myself in this way–

– [Craig] Yeah, and look, we have the tools at hand today to actually change stuff really quickly, so think about previously where you might have got stuck and you have to go I have to get the developer to do that. Really, when you thin about, especially with HubSpot, we have tools, we can change CTAs, we can update pages, we can publish new things, we can change the heights of certain elements relatively quickly, right. So the speed to iterate is very, very fast and I think just be aware of that, like, if you are taking your sweet time, you’re missing that opportunity.

– [Ian] All right, Craig, onto our insight of the week, the classic Boris Johnson SEO expert.

– [Craig] Oh, this is hysterical. So, Boris Johnson, yes, we’re talking about the Boris Johnson–

– That’s right.

– [Craig] Prime Minister. So, there’s this article we were just reading recently in a Twitter thread about it and about the genius of the man in his SEO. So, with this high expect, you remember when he was talking about I build model buses or I like to build model buses and everyone was like, what is this guy smoking it’s just the craziest thing. Anyway, turns out, in a genius piece of Google ranking misdirection or manipulation, he was trying to remove focus of the bus which was to do with Brexit, right. And then another thing around model, he used to, he had some altercation with a model and then another one, a more recent example, you can see these in the thread, trying to distance himself from police altercations and things like that. So, the whole, these interviews he does and the crazy things he’s saying are all to drive headlines that then change Google’s results listing away from bad stories about him previously related to those topics to these new, kinda crazy ones in a way and it’s about capturing attention and controlling that capture of attention. And the guy–

– The guy’s a genius.

– [Craig] When I saw this, I was like, who is this guy’s SEO team? Whoever’s doing this, it’s like, and I just would love to have been a fly on the wall when they were discussing this, you know, so, like Boris, we’ve got this idea. We’re going to line up this TV interview with you. Now what we’re going to try and do is a bit of reputation management SEO to get away from the whole bus Brexit coverage and things, so we want you to say, I like to build model buses and the guy is, can you imagine sitting in the interview just always joking and I go, no, I reckon people are going, and the last laugh is with this guy, he has, like the balls on this guy to do it, carry it on. And the other thing is like, how many other times has he done this that we don’t even know, not aware of? The guy is a master, I’m just, I bow down to you, sir. Anyway, that is–

– [Ian] Phenomenal when you think, you look at the search results pages and you see what’s on there and he was funny, even you were telling me about this because I actually read this and I thought, I kinda just had a think about it and thought, wow, the extent that he has gone through, his team has gone through to really understand how to protect himself online and kind of carve up that real estate was really pretty phenomenal. So, you’ve got to sometimes think differently, don’t you, Craig?

– [Craig] Have a look at the bus, we’ll share the bus on Twitter, I reckon.

– [Ian] All right, now Craig, under resource of the week we have…

– [Craig] This is an interesting thing you have been working with on Google, the Grow My Store, it’s called. But they say it’s to improve your digital window into the world, a useful tool to understand what Google is looking at when it evaluates sites.

– [Ian] Hang on, hang on. Improve your digital window to the, why do they write that kind of rubbish? Improve your digital window to the, what does that even mean? That’s just complete malarkey.

– Malarkey.

– [Craig] Anyway, what I wanted to highlight, especially if you’ve got an online store or your store is actually to drive people to a retail, a physical retail space, I do that on one of my customer’s sties and I was showing you the report. It was very interesting once I put it in, it said this report will take a couple of hours to complete. Anyway, we went away and came back, half an hour, it was here. The way it was laid out was very interesting, very visual, really clear. Giving a really clear, this is good, this is not good, and it’s really interesting some of the things it picks up. Like, one of the things I showed you was looking at next to this sort, there was nowhere where it mentioned next day delivery or free returns and that were two of the criteria that Google was actually highlighting that you should be targeting. It looks at site speed, it looks at mobile friendliness, it looks at usability, how good are the pictures, how well the buttons are laid out so it’s easy to buy, can you create yourself an account, et cetera.

– [Ian] It’s kind of like website grader with a few tweaks for an online store, it’s really good. I think it’s really kind of interesting that it said, oh, it’ll take a few hours to prepare your report because what was the perception you had when you saw that?

– [Craig] I was like, really, does it really take that long to produce a report?

– [Ian] Yeah, well of course, it doesn’t and I’m sure it’s prepared in an instant but there’s a perception piece there isn’t there?

– Yeah, you know–

– [Ian] It’s kind of like saying, I’ll take a few hours. Oh wow, this report must have value.

– [Craig] There is a lot of value there, you’re absolutely right. I think that’s exactly what it is. You know how people talk about fake scarcity and fake urgency, that’s kind of like fake credibility it’s building you right there, isn’t it?

– [Ian] That’s right. Now, Craig, you’re supposed to have a quote of the week. Well, you called it genius of the week.

– [Craig] Oh, that’s because we moved the Boris Johnson thing to earlier, sorry.

– [Craig] Well, we don’t have a quote.

– [Ian] Well, the quote this week is, test and measure.

– [Craig] Test and measure, a great quote.

– [Ian] Now, we’ve got some links, YouTube optimization, tips for SEO, now this is really good. I would actually recommend you guys have a look at it. There’s a slide show on it. More and more, I’m actually realizing that people are using YouTube and talking about it more often and, look, I’ll talk about my kids. There is no TV, YouTube is TV in their world. And they get everything, they watch gamers trying to, how to build stuff, what other people are doing. It’s quite funny, they used to watch really silly stuff, now they’re becoming more strategic with what they’re watching because they’re playing different games or even different things at school, and so they’re trying to figure out, well, how do I get better at this, so I watch other people doing it, learn about things that they’re doing and then, basically, mimic that.

– Game better.

– Game better, that’s right.

– [Craig] So do your kids watch it and see ads.

– [Ian] Yeah, they do, actually, so I’m thinking of paying to not see ads.

– [Craig] Yeah, so I’ve got YouTube premium and not that I actually watch a lot of YouTube, I have to say, but there’s no way I can tolerate ads. So that 10 bucks or 12 bucks a month is a no brainer for me to save, well, probably, what, the number of videos I watch. Like, what do you normally get, a minute of ads for a reasonable video? So watching Brian and Diamesh’s keynotes or a few things like that, you’d be like, oh. So I probably save 10 or 15 minutes a week, I reckon, of my time and just the frustration, I’ll happily pay for that. So, I can’t believe people watch all these ads, like, how do you put up with ads in–

– [Ian] I’m just more tolerant, Craig.

– [Craig] Are you more tolerant, is that what it is? Is it the price that puts you off?

– [Ian] No, I actually don’t even know the price, to be honest, I was going to ask you that question.

– [Craig] I think it’s really cheap, it’s like 10 or 12 bucks a month.

– It is.

– [Craig] You know what, I’ll tell you this, I mean, I do subscribe to some other channels where you can have an option to have ads and pay less or have no ads and pay more, and it’s really interesting because on that particular time, we’ve actually, my wife and I, we’ve actually said, oh, we’ll just try it with the ads. And then after about a week, we’re like, oh, we’ve had enough of this, we’ll just pay the extra five bucks and not with ads, so it’s the same. I actually see ourselves going towards that model of actually paying for YouTube because I’m happy for my kids not to have ads and waste their time but just the plethora of ads that are going on, sometimes I want to protect them from stuff.

– [Ian] Yeah, I know, I think there’s two types of ads. So I’m happy to see ads in the sidebar but when they interrupt and stop me doing stuff, that’s when it annoys me. So I do use an ad blocker on some sites but my point is, I’m actually happy to pay for removing ads and, normally, when I have the ad blocker, it’s to remove those ones that really slow down your site or make it completely unfriendly to read the site. I love it when they’ve just got a small ad or a small sponsored listing, I’ll happily look at that and in emails as well, they’ll have an ad. They’ve got to monetize, I’m not expecting it for free and I think this whole idea of micropayments and micro, I will happily pay for that kind of stuff. We subscribe to stuff to remove ads, some of them, the better media newspapers, I’ll happily pay but, yeah, it’s the interruption, it’s just not worth it.

– [Craig] Well, folks, I hope you’ve enjoyed the show. We’d love you to share it with somebody that you think it would help and leave us any feedback and reviews on Apple podcast or–

– [Ian] You know we’re on Spotify now.

– [Craig] And we are on YouTube. You can actually listen to our podcast on YouTube.

– [Ian] What happens with ads there–

– And on Google podcast.

– And Google podcast.

– [Craig] And we’re appearing in the Google listings because we’re getting transcribed and everything, thank you, Mr. Google. So we’re testing that out–

– [Ian] So can I just check us on YouTube, people might actually listen to our podcast on YouTube and be interrupted by ads.

– Quite possibly.

– [Craig] Yeah, sorry folks, we’ve got no control. We don’t have any control over that, do we?

– [Ian] No.

– [Craig] We’ve got no control over that.

– [Ian] We should monetize that, Craig.

– [Craig] Oh yeah, buy the way, stick around, folks, we’ve now got a series of five minutes of ads from our sponsor.

– No, we don’t.

– [Ian] Well, I hope everyone has a great week and we look forward to talking to you next week. See you, Craig.

– Catch you later, Ian.

– [Craig] Thank you for listening to this episode of HubShots. For show notes, resources, HubSpot news including practical strategies you can implement, visit us at HubShots.com


Episode 175: Contact Cleanliness, Contact Smarts

Welcome to HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

We hope you enjoy the podcast as much as HubSpot’s CEO, Brian Halligan does.

This episode we chat about recording a live podcast, about podcasting. Plus more on keeping your database contact list clean.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/175-contact-cleanliness-contact-smarts/


HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD3Uo4X-IxPJLE8ygPDQhNQ

Subscribe to our Spotify channel here: https://open.spotify.com/show/7oee8w41riN5aRNrLKT2ar

Join the Facebook group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/hubshots/

Follow us on Twitter here: https://twitter.com/hubshots

Follow us on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/hubshotspodcast/

Follow us on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hubshots/

Recorded: Thursday 26 September 2019 | Published: Monday 14 October 2019

Shot 1: Inbound Thought of the Week

Sydney HubSpot User Group HugCast

The HugCast was last night at the Sydney HubSpot User Group. A lot of fun with Moby, Ian and Craig recording a podcast about podcasting live in front of the HUG audience.

hubcasthugcast 2

You can view the slide deck here:


Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Find hard bounce contacts:


Marketing Email   HubSpot 3

Make sure you tick this option for added insight:

Marketing Email   HubSpot 2

Better yet, run NeverBounce over your database before you ever sound out an email.


The first tip here about adding a Meeting link to contacts you own is really good:


Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

You might think this is a marketing feature, but I think it is going to help out sales teams even more:


Especially at tradeshows, events, etc

Shot 4: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

Not being able to see who could also be responding to messenger conversations.  Had one of our customers and myself responding to a customer enquiry.  Only when the conversation ended did I realise that our client started to respond!


Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

A tool from Google: Find My Audience https://www.thinkwithgoogle.com/feature/findmyaudience/

Find My Audience helps you understand who your most valuable customers are on YouTube — so you can discover new audiences and learn how to reach them individually with relevant messages.

Find My Audience will help you:

  • FIND: Identify new audiences that match your current business goals, whether you’re focused on building awareness or growing consideration.
  • IDENTIFY: Get insights into your unique audiences’ interests, habits, and what they’re actively planning to purchase.
  • BUILD your YouTube audience strategy with your free and shareable audience profile

Shot 6: Insight of the Week

Where do podcasts fit in the sales and marketing funnel?

There are a number of considerations including:

  • Industry
  • Size of your business
  • Format you want to use

Here’s how we consider HubShots in terms of our marketing funnel.

Shot 7: App of the Week

Overcast https://overcast.fm/

Our favourite podcast player!

Overcast on the App Store

Shot 8: Resource of the Week


Shot 9: Quote of the Week

“I view life as one big adventure. I’m always learning, and finding new things to try and challenges to overcome.” – Sir Richard Branson

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week


Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

Episode 175 Transcription

– [Ian] Hi everyone, welcome to HubShots episode 175. We talk about contact cleanliness and contact smarts. You’re listening to Asia Pacific’s number one, HubSpot focus podcast, where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks, features, and strategies, for growing your market and sales results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found, and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. Craig, welcome to the late-night episode of HubShots.

– [Craig] Yes, that’s right. It’s just gone 10 o’clock at night as we’ve started recording this. We’ve spent far too much time getting distracted as we were planning tonight’s show.

– [Ian] I know, and you know what, this is after a night of running the HubSpot user group in Sydney. So it’s kind of like we’ve had two late nights. This is like the tail end of HUG, isn’t it?

– [Craig] It’s so much HubSpot Goodness, that’s all I can say. And we’re gonna, we’re actually gonna cover a whole bunch of things today in the episode, which I think will be really practical and useful. But before we do, let’s chat about last night and the HUGCast.

– [Ian] Last night at the Sydney HubSpot User Group, we had, well, we attempted to record, the third HUGCast, which was a combined podcast between Inbound Buzz and HubShots, with Moby Siddique.

– [Craig] Yeah, this was the brainchild of Moby. So he thought, “Well, we’ll talk about what podcasting is “and how to get started, and tips and tricks, and equipment, “and all kinds of things.” And to make it kind of meta, he said, “We will record it in front of an audience.” So it was a podcast recorded live in front of a user group audience talking about podcasting, and some good questions came of it as well. And we’ve got some photos in the show notes, and also a link to the deck, so, the slide deck that Moby put together. And look, it was just good to have kinda the third crossover episode of InboundShots. Always good chatting with Moby, isn’t it?

– [Ian] It was a good night, just after INBOUND ’19. And we, thank you to WeWork, because they generously have our set.

– Such a good venue. It’s such a cool vibe there at WeWorks. Get along to our next one in November, November 27, if you’re in Sydney, or else check out the global site for HubSpot user groups. You’ll find them all around the world actually just before we move off the user group. It was great start to the night from Elliot Chapman, giving an excellent tip.

– Yes Elliot, in gold. Actually we should put–

– We could steal that and put it in our tip of the night, because he covered, what did he cover?

– [Ian] He talked about contact views.

– Filters.

– Filters, yes.

– [Craig] In all objects, contacts, companies, deals, yeah.

– [Ian] And actually, if you’re keen, we should put a link in the lesson. There is a HubSpot Academy lesson, that Elliot has, which actually talks about all those contact filters.

– [Craig] Well, that’s right. Well, actually, if you follow the link in our show notes to the deck from last night’s HubSpot user group, and then you find one of the slides, that we, slide that actually links off to Elliott’s HubSpot Academy mini-course. So, check that out before we leave. Sorry, I know I’ve done a double exit on this one. But before we leave, the final session had Tony Eades and Jaime Schell talking about their insights and takeaways from INBOUND, so that was good. Now, that was all recorded as well, I think. So we can actually make that available. It was just a great night and so many people were so kind and came out and gave us good feedback about it. The food was good, as usual.

– [Ian] Now, Craig, talking about INBOUND ’20. I think we’ve got some speaker suggestions.

– [Craig] You know what? I think HubSpot really need to go for it big time next year. And in terms of speakers, you know, who I’m wanting to see? Well actually, you say, who do you want to see first?

– [Ian] I think I’d love to see Sir Richard Branson.

– [Craig] Richard Branson, and I’d like to see Tony Robbins, if they could get both of them.

– [Ian] That would be fantastic.

– Like–

– We’ll be there, right?

– [Craig] Yeah, that’s right. By the way, you were telling me, how many people actually attended?

– [Ian] So, yesterday, when we were at the Sydney HubSpot User Group, there was a mention of 26,000 people descended on Boston for INBOUND ’19.

– [Craig] Wow, ’cause when I went back, when was that, I went for three years in a row.

– Three years ago.

– [Craig] And the first time I went, I think there was just on 10,000 maybe or they’d just got over 10,000. Now it’s almost triple the size, wow.

– [Ian] And it’s not just about marketing, it’s really about what I described it to be.

– [Craig] It’s about an experience.

– [Ian] It’s an experience, it’s an event, right?

– [Craig] It’s an event, yes.

– [Ian] But anyway, regardless, we’d love to see Tony Robbins and Sir Richard Branson. All right, Craig, on to HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week. And this is going back to contacts, and about finding the hard bound contacts. Now, I’m gonna take it one step back. What is a hard bounced contact, Craig?

– [Craig] Well, the best example is when they’ve left the company and their email is no longer in existence. So it’ll just bounce right back. You can get it from some other events happening, but that’s kind of the main one.

– [Ian] Yeah, now, I have seen, in terms of other bounces, that happen and it might be marked as hard, certain companies in their spam filters might say that they don’t want to get email from certain providers and that gets marked as well.

– [Craig] Okay, so blocked providers, yeah.

– Correct.

– And I think, you know, the other one, I think this might be a soft bounce, though, is when the inbox is too full, comes back as a soft bounce. But yeah, it’s still not a good sign. Deliverability issues nonetheless.

– [Ian] Correct, so what we want to highlight is that there, under more tools, in your list, there’s actually a really easy way of creating a list of hard bound contacts or adding hard bounce contacts to an existing list. So we’d encourage you to actually have a look at that because this really should be reviewed pretty much after every time you’re sending email marketing.

– [Craig] Why this is good is because previously what you’d have to do after you’d send an email is go into the individual email, “Oh, those are the ones that bounce, “okay, I’ll add them to a static list.” The time-saving here, ’cause this is new, and we’ve got the link to the HubSpot post about it, is it just means you can do it from lists and you can get them all, so that’s–

– Fantastic.

– Yeah, a time saver. Now, there’s one other thing, though. It’s something called global bounces. Global bounces, yeah, now, I’m not entirely sure of the full details of this, but you tick it on. And what they do is, because HubSpot’s across so many portals, if there’s an email address that’s in your portal that they know has bounced, because other portals have tried to send to it. There’s this global sense of it’s a bounce, and so you can include those and automatically get them, even though you might not have sent them out, to get them back and had the bounce. HubSpot helps you out, and I think that’s really cool.

– Yeah, you know–

– That’s the real benefit of this kind of system.

– [Ian] Exactly, and you know one thing I discovered, how I realized this is happening, was one day when I added a contact in, I don’t think it was our portal, but when we were doing some work with a customer, and I was adding it in, and they said, “Oh, we cannot send email to this contact “because of this particular reason.” I was like, “How did it know that?” And this is probably the reason why. And so the ability to do this globally is pretty good, keeping the deliverability clean.

– [Craig] You know what I’d like to know? I would like to know what percentage of all the contacts in all the HubSpot portals out there, what percentage of contacts are in multiple portals? What do you reckon the overlap would be?

– [Ian] I think there’d be a fair bit bit of overlap, Craig.

– [Craig] There would be, but what would you expect, like 10%, 50%?

– [Ian] I reckon probably like 20 to 30%.

– 20 to 30%.

– We’re just talking random numbers here now.

– [Craig] And see, the thing is, over time, that overlap is just gonna grow.

– [Ian] Correct, because we are a platform.

– [Craig] That’s right, until that one day, which, you know, will come, when every single company and person in the world is using HubSpot, right. We know that day’s coming, that meant by definition. And therefore, every single person in the world will be in a HubSpot database somewhere. The overlap would have to be incredibly high. Imagine the bounce stats they’ll have there. Their deliverability will just be incredible. They’ll know exactly which contacts, okay, anyway.

– [Ian] Okay, now coming back, we spoke about a tool that we’re using called NeverBounce, to actually help clean up lists. And I think this is a really good thing. This is where, we’re putting in both of our businesses. We’re putting this a part of our process–

– This is so good. Thanks to you, I actually used this today, this afternoon on a client’s database just to find all the invalid ones and, yeah, clean out the junk.

– [Ian] Yeah, I’ll tell you why. I’m still stuck in my little malarkey of, you know.

– [Craig] Oh, you’re still in the HubSpot quarantine!

– I’m still in quarantine.

– We talked about this three or four episodes ago.

– [Ian] That list, my customer list is still quarantined. My get out of jail free card isn’t working. What do I have to say? I’ve got to produce all the documentation now, which I’ve got to get off my customer, which is proving incredibly hard. But regardless, what I want to say, this is a really good process to have. And if you’re an agency or you’re somebody in marketing, that manages data that’s given to you to put into marketing from other systems within your business, even though they might be communicated, asking the right questions, running them through something like NeverBounce, and checking your list cleanliness, is a big key thing to do.

– [Craig] Seriously, I’m gonna use NeverBounce on every client now. I was chatting with this client, they’re only small, a HubSpot Starter. they got 1,200 contacts, thereabouts. And they had had an issue with, they got a warning chatting about, “Oh, we’re gonna do up that list.” I said, look, I’ll run it through NeverBounce. I said, look, it’s an external tool. It does have an additional charge. It’s like, “Oh, okay, no worries. “Well, I’ll have to get approval for that. “How much do you think it’s gonna cost?” I don’t know what was in his mind, but I think he was thinking, oh, it’s gonna be a dollar per contact, or something like that, to get it checked.

– Course it’s a dollar per contact, Craig.

– Dollar per contact. Anyway, I said, “Oh, okay, look, I’ll just look at their pricing.” And you know it’s point eight of a cent per contact. I said “Oh, it’s gonna cost you about $10.” It’s like it’s a no-brainer, $10 to check that your database list is clean.

– [Ian] Don’t get caught in the situation we’re in. And do your due diligence when you’re putting contacts in. All right, Craig, on to our Sales Tip of the Week, and this could also be a marketing feature. This is the ability to collect contact information without disabling cookie tracking on forms. Now, this is great if you’re going to trade shows, or maybe you had a stand at INBOUND and you were collecting leads, you could use this feature because one of the things you would know when you fill out a HubSpot form, you get the cookie tracking so you don’t have to fill out your details again on that form. And then you used to have the ability to actually disable the tracking if that one form was being used multiple times. The feature now is that it can still have the tracking on or does it gets switched off on it?

– [Craig] I don’t know. So, this one, is basically, it’s a setting that says if the email address is different, create a new contact. You could be the same person in submitting this form. So a new email address, I will create a new contact. Whereas before, with the cookie–

– [Ian] You’d get it overwritten.

– [Craig] Yeah, the cookie would tie them together, and before, you’d have to say, oh, well turn off that cookie thing to try and avoid it.

– [Ian] See, that’s an interesting, yeah, it’s an interesting scenario. I’m just thinking of a scenario that I’m just coming up against with one of my customers. When we’re collecting additional details.

– [Craig] It’s put as a marketing feature because, you know, maybe it happens on websites or communal terminals in some places, but I think I see this in a sales feature, trade shows.

– Yeah, absolutely, it is a–

– [Craig] If you think about some of your businesses, you know where they go up to people, they’ve got a just an iPad with a simple form, just typing people in and all of this, creates new contacts, bang, bang, bang. And you know, the thing about this, this should have been in there right from the start. Before, we would explain to clients, oh, there’s this cookie thing, and you gotta do this, and they’re like, “Ah, right.” You show them this, ah, new email, new contact, aah. It’s just so much simpler, right? It’s kind of obvious in hindsight.

– [Ian] Now, Craig, there was one thing I wanna talk about, and this is actually probably helpful for sales. It’s about adding a meeting link to your contacts. It’s a feature that you can actually implement, and put it into a contact property. It’s to actually run a workflow, so obviously you’ve got to be having a sales professional or marketing professional to do this, running a workflow to insert the contact owner’s meeting link against their contact, which you can then use in the emails or communication that you send out to your contacts.

– [Craig] Yeah, that’s right, so let’s go back a step just to explain this. So, let’s say you’re sending out a bulk email to all these different people on your list, and you want to include a link so that the recipient can book in a meeting with whoever their account manager is. Now, previously, you couldn’t really do that. So this nice little hack, this is from a HubSpot blog, is, as you said, create a custom property, populate it with the meeting link. However, you need a workflow that goes through to populate that property with the meeting link. Now, I was thinking about this and I was thinking, well, you know, if we know who the contact owner is, couldn’t we somehow say, “What’s the contact owner’s meeting link?” And if they only had one meeting link, well maybe that would make sense. But, of course you can have multiple meeting links. So the reason for the workflow is to say, oh, well, you’ll pick the meeting link and put it in. I still think there’s an opportunity to make this simpler by having, this is my default meeting link.

– [Ian] Yes.

– And so then–

– Well, there is a default.

– Is there?

– Yeah, there is, when you create multiple, there is always a default.

– [Craig] Oh okay, well, in that case I think you should be able to just pull that contact. I think that should be able to be accessed from a contact property where you say, contacts, contact owner’s default meeting link.

– Correct.

– And I think you should be able to access anything that’s from the contact on his profile in the contact record in itself as a personalization token.

– Agreed.

– Surely, that would get around it.

– [Ian] Anyway, here’s another way to get around it.

– [Craig] Yeah, this is a nice little hack for the meantime.

– [Ian] All right, Craig, on to our Gotcha of the Week. Now, here’s a little gotcha, sir. We’ve been talking about messenger integration into conversations.

– Which is fantastic.

– [Ian] And we love it, so, I’ve actually integrated this for a customer of ours. And my customer, who has, as somebody knew in customer support, was being very proactive outside of business hours. So here I was, I was working away, I saw this message come through, and it is one of our customers that they roast and sell coffee. So, I quite enjoy working with them. You know, we love coffee, sir. So I thought, okay, cool, someone’s on there. I think I could answer this question. Anyway, somebody jumps on, I kind of missed the first bit thinking, oh, he’s just asked a few questions, I get in on the conversation, start having a chat. It’s actually one of our friends who works there now, Jerry, so he looks after customer service, so I figured, okay, I know who this is gonna go to. I’ll assign this to Jerry, when he gets to work tomorrow morning he’ll sort it out. Anyway, well here we are having a chat. The guy’s asking me questions. “Can I come and get this?” Yeah, sounds all right. “Do I need to order it online?” I said no, should be all right. You should be able to come in and collect this, okay? Anyway, so, conversation’s going on, I ask him for his phone number so we can contact him in the morning. And he goes, “Great, see you later, all done.” Anyway, I thought, okay, I’m gonna just go to check this. I’ll just go up the chain here to check the conversation. Anyway, I see that Jerry actually started responding at the start, but it showed up as an automated message, and I couldn’t tell who it was. And then when I’ve gone back to the chat transcript, I can see it says it’s an automated message, even though Jerry has signed off at the end. So there’s the gotcha for the week, because if he didn’t contact me, I would not have realized that it was actually him who actually put that message, it actually shows up as an automated message.

– Right, so the gotcha is incorrect labeling.

– Yeah.

– [Craig] So can I just check? Do you have a chat bot on this particular conversation channel? Or is it only Facebook Messenger.

– [Ian] Only Facebook Messenger.

– [Craig] I don’t know why it’s got automated then. Are you sure you don’t have a chat? That’s weird.

– I’m pretty sure I don’t. Maybe I need to go check it.

– [Craig] Because I suspect it might be a bit of a bug with, I don’t know actually, because we don’t get that in ours. They don’t show up as automated.

– [Ian] Let me go check it out.

– [Craig] Yeah.

– What is this?

– Live troubleshooting.

– [Ian] Live troubleshooting on the podcast.

– [Craig] So, let me go check that out, and we will have to get back to you guys, but there you go. I am pretty sure it’s not. So, Shot 5, our Marketing Tip of the Week. And this is one you found. This is a new tool from Think with Google.

– [Ian] Yes, Craig, I love finding new tools, as you know. And I love it when people like Elliott send me new tools, as well. So, this is a tool that I found on Think with Google. It’s called Find My Audience, and it helps you understand who your most valuable customers are on YouTube. So you can discover new audiences, and learn how to reach them individually with relevant messages. So there’s kind of three things that they said it would do. I have to admit it was a bit of a confusing experience we were having.

– [Craig] This was a terrible user experience. I’m not gonna hold back alright, because you saw how much I was struggling. I was pressing this button, Find My Audience. And it’s going, “No, errors.” and all, just–

– You were having a user, not a very good user experience.

– [Craig] No, look, and I don’t know if that was the classic id10t error. You know, I found out where the problem was, it’s between the chair and the keyboard. But look, I actually just, yeah, I found it frustrating. And I, well, I challenge our listeners. Go to this link, the Find Your Audience link, and see how long it takes you to work out what you have to do in order to get your audience profile.

– [Ian] I’ll just tell you the three things they are trying to set there, find, identify, and build. So, identify new audiences that match your current business goals, whether you’re focused on building awareness, or growing consideration. So they’re talking funnel language here. Next is to identify, get insights into our unique audiences, interests, habits, and what they’re actively planning to purchase. And the third was build your YouTube audience strategy, with your free and sharable audience profile. So, as a little example, we went through this, and we chose, okay, we wanted to target people that were interested in business services and marketing, specifically. It was really interesting, there were the five top channels that people that were in our target were looking at on YouTube. Grant Cardone was one of them. There were a few other people that I’d never heard of, which is really interesting.

– Or CNBC, and then TLC. I’m like, really?

– That’s right. And then they were also interested in other things that they were kind of related to. So, it is an interesting insight because, as you would know, in Google Ads, you have this ability to select affinity audiences and in-market audiences. So people not necessarily, especially for in-market, not really searching for your product or service. But Google knows they are in the market to buy that. So it gives you the ability to get in front of them because they’re actually in the buying process. Anyway, this is the way to do it on YouTube, and this tool is supposed to give you the ability to find those channels that people are actually going to.

– [Craig] You know, the thing I’ll say about this, ’cause I’m very dubious about affinity audiences, I have to say, unless you’re a huge brand with a massive budget. However, I’m gonna counter that and say we’ve just been doing some testing on Facebook lately where we’re making our audiences massive. We’re starting with very large audiences.

– [Ian] So, broad, would you say?

– [Craig] Really broad, like three million-size audiences. And we’re letting Facebook’s algorithms and machine learning, based on conversions do the hard work, and it’s very good. So I wonder if YouTube’s algorithms for targeting your ads over time work on that same principle, like starting really broad, and then just by iterative, they’re learning, and they’re actually getting you down. But it’s really gonna be conversion pace that you can measure, so ,for us on Facebook, it’s normally tied to something on a website conversion. Whereas on YouTube, I think that a lot of their conversion metrics are actually within or staying on the platform. So, I’m just wondering how you track an actual conversion in a meaningful way so that machine learning can trigger.

– [Ian] And there you have it. I guess we just got to test and measure that, eh?

– [Craig] Well, we just need smarter people than, well, me, maybe, I don’t want to bring you down to my level, but we need smarter people that are doing this YouTube advertising. So listeners, if you’re doing this on a big scale and getting really good results with these kind of tools, I’d love to hear from you, because this whole affinity and in-market audience, we hear Google promoting it so highly.

– [Ian] In our business, I do a lot of the paid advertising, or I look after it, and I have used a lot of in-market. And what I’ve found, over time, starts really well, but kind of fizzles out. Probably, let’s say, good for about two to three months, and then fizzles out to not really working. So I’ve actually ended up stopping.

– [Craig] And do you find that in specific industries? So, for example, in-market audiences. Say, very good, say in automobile. They’re very good in, say, health and fitness. That comes–

– Finance.

– [Craig] And finance, but once you get into other industries, they’re nowhere near as focused, right?

– Correct, yes. And I think it’s all to do with the way data is being collected and how much that they can associate or tie things together within that industry. So you’re absolutely right, it’s all to do with the data that we’re getting. All right, Craig, on to our Insight of the Week.

– [Craig] All right, now, I’m actually gonna cut this short because I was gonna talk about, in light of what we discussed at the HUG, just around how we target this podcast. So we’ll save that for next week ’cause we have come up, we’re pretty close to time, but here’s what we’re gonna cover. We’re gonna cover when we think about promoting our podcast. Are we talking top of the funnel, middle of funnel or bottom of the funnel, because I think–

– [Ian] And the middle of the flywheel

– [Craig] And the middle of the flywheel, ’cause I think it might surprise some people how we approach it, and based on our circumstances. And it’s really to do with the size of our business, the target audiences that we have, and the actual goals behind it. And so, the way we approach it might be different and perhaps useful for listeners, so hang out for that next week.

– [Ian] Absolutely, now, App of the Week, Craig, is Overcast, and if you go to overcast.fm, this is our favorite podcast player and it is only available on Apple devices. So if you’ve got one of those fancy new iPhones, it’ll work on it for sure. But if you’ve got an Android device, no. But one of the reasons we love this podcast player is the ability for it to do smart speed on playback, cut out all the pauses, and it’s just a great experience. Ever since you introduced it to me, I’ve been using it and I love it.

– [Craig] Do you know anyone that listens to a podcast on one time speed?

– [Ian] I’m sure there are some people that do.

– I don’t know anyone. Everyone listens to podcasts–

– Well, actually, my wife, Charlene, she probably does.

– [Craig] Really, why, doesn’t she get bored?

– [Ian] When she listens to me, listening to podcasts, she goes, “Oh, this is too fast, can you slow it down?” So anyway, so there you go, I’ve told you one person.

– [Craig] Okay, well there you go. It only takes one to dispel my thinking, so, well done.

– [Ian] All right we got our Resource of the Week, which is the guide to the biggest SEO myths on the Web. And this is from SEMrush.

– [Craig] Barry Schwartz actually wrote a guest post for Mrush. This is excellent, it talks about biases, cognitive biases. The way we think about things. The way people embrace myths in SEO. The way they get perpetuated, often because, you know, it’s people that don’t know, or people trying to make a name for themselves, or small sample size, all this kind of thing. Anyway, it’s a massively long post. And I will admit, I did not finish reading this.

– [Ian] Is this is a piece of pillar content, Craig?

– [Craig] It is a monster post, it is so good. The first half is all about the biases and the setup, which I have read. The second part is, he goes through a whole bunch of the myths, which I haven’t yet finished. And here’s the thing, this post is so good, and so big, and so long, of course–

– That you have to share it.

– [Craig] Of course it got shared by so many people. I bet 90% of the people that shared this post didn’t read any of it, they just went, “Wow, this is a monster post, I’ll share this “and look as though I’m informed.” It is a monster. So yeah, well worth, well, note to self, well worth finishing.

– [Ian] And here is a quote from our new speaker at INBOUND 2020, from Sir Richard Branson .

– [Craig] Disclaimer.

– [Ian] “I view life as one big adventure. “I’m always learning, and finding new things to try, “and challenges to overcome.” There you have it, Craig, I just thought it was so apt because I think a lot of what we do, and how we work with businesses is a lot of learning, a lot of big adventures, and a lot of overcoming challenges. So, there you go. Well listeners, thank you so much for tuning in. We would love you to share this podcast with somebody else that would find it useful. And we would love if you could leave us a review.

– [Craig] Ah, when you showed me that review that we got recently, oh, it was so good, thank you so much for that. I think people don’t realize how much of an impact it has, and all, when we get really nice–

– [Ian] ‘Cause we’re so lonely here.

– [Craig] Yeah, you get a few nice comments, and it just makes our day, so thank you so much for that, really appreciate it.

– [Ian] All right Craig, I hope you have great week.

– [Craig] Catch you later, Ian.

– [Announcer] Hey there, thanks for listening to this episode of HubShots. For show notes and the latest HubSpot news and tips please visit us at at hubshots.com

Episode 174: Quotes in HubSpot Deals

Welcome to Episode 174 of HubShots!

HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

This episode we chat about Brian’s keynote at Inbound, play further with Quotes in HubSpot Deals, and being relaxed about Google’s changes to rel=nofollow in links.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/174-quotes-in-hubspot-deals

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD3Uo4X-IxPJLE8ygPDQhNQ

Subscribe to our Spotify channel here: https://open.spotify.com/show/7oee8w41riN5aRNrLKT2ar

Join the Facebook group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/hubshots/

Follow us on Twitter here: https://twitter.com/hubshots

Follow us on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/hubshotspodcast/

Follow us on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hubshots/

Recorded: Wednesday 18 September 2019 | Published: Friday 27 September 2019

Shot 1: Inbound Thought of the Week

Breaking down Brian’s keynote on Experience Disruptors


  • Get Experience-Market Fit
  • Remove Friction
  • Personalize
  • Sell Through Your Customers
  • Attack Your Business Model

(No mention of blockchain, AI)

How you sell is why you win.

Impact had a good roundup of the keynote:


Related: another reason why I love Amazon:


Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Using your Marketing Dashboard wisely!

There are lots of reports you can add to your dashboard.

Tip:  Think about what you want to achieve by having that report.  We often use a longer timeframes on certain reports to see trends in enquiries and sessions by source.  This will give you a good idea of what is happening.

Also, don’t forget you can click through on the report and see the detailed data.

Reports dashboard 12

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Diving into Quotes on Deals


  • Simple to use, nice template designs
  • Simple to add contact and products
  • Mix recurring and one-off items
  • eSignature is being enabled for Pro in November (currently only in Enterprise)
  • Use Snippets to fill in comment and payment term boxes

Schnubbs   New Website and Marketing


  • Can’t edit Quotes after sending them
  • Can’t search for Deals that have Quotes, can’t find Deals that have Quotes accepted etc
  • Can’t use your own domain in the links
  • Doesn’t support tax automatically eg GST
  • No protection of Quotes on Deals that are Closed (eg you can easily delete a quote, even if the Deal is Won, and there’s no audit trail)

Shot 4: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

Finding Deals that have quotes attached

Add your own custom Deal properties, and make sure to update at the time of adding the quote

Recommend using a date field to mark the date the quote was added

Property settings 1

You can then create Deal Views that use the Quote property:

Deals 1

You can then add other criteria eg All Deals that active (ie not Won or Lost) and have a Quote date set.

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

Don’t be concerned by Google’s announcement about changes to rel=”nofollow” in links.

Google’s rel= changes




How Google s Nofollow  Sponsored    UGC Links Impact SEO   Moz

Key insight: it highlights that links are (still) definitely a key input/consideration for Google

Shot 6: Insight of the Week

Why I moved my social posting over to my blog:


Five main reasons:

  1. A permanent record
  2. A searchable record
  3. Share the link love
  4. Time management – avoiding the timeline time suck
  5. Mental health – avoiding the dopamine hit of social likes

Interested in my ramblings? My personal blog is at https://craigbailey.net

Shot 7: App of the Week

Google Maps app

Make sure you are optimising for it.  It is showing more information about businesses that have updated their Google MyBusiness listings.  Even showing video.

IMG 3D2DD5A95151 1

Shot 8: Resource of the Week

A collection of famous speeches:


With transcriptions.

I enjoyed JK Rowling’s Harvard address:


Shot 9: Quote of the Week

“The more people use my inventions, the better the country will be.”

  • Sakichi Toyoda

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week

Btw reminder of Moz’s Beginner’s Guide to SEO:


Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

HubShots episode 174

Episode 174 Transcription

– [Ian] Hi everyone. Welcome to HubShots episode 174. In this episode we chat about Brian Halligan’s keynote at INBOUND, we play further with quotes in HubSpot deals, and, what to do with the whole malarkey and Google, and about the changes with links. You’re listening to HubShots, Asia Pacific’s number one HubSpot focus podcast, where we discuss HubSpots tips, tricks, features and strategies for growing your marketing and sales results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found, and with me is Craig Bailey from Xen systems. How are you Craig?

– [Craig] Oh really good, I’m having a great week. You know what, and this is just a bit of a weather update for our oversees listeners, because Sydney, well Sydney weather is just awesome.

– It was beautiful.

– [Craig] September’s my favorite time of year, and the first half this month has just been so beautiful and then last couple of days absolutely pouring with rain, torrential, and so it’s just what is going on? Apparently, there’s this thing called climate change, Ian, have you heard of this?

– [Ian] Apparently so, Craig and we’re sitting over an ozone hole as well I heard.

– [Craig] But apart from that it’s been great.

– [Ian] That’s right. It felt like sunshine one day and winter the next. Anyway our inbound thought of the week, Craig.

– [Craig] You know what you could almost say that the climate is facing disruption. Sorry. We’re gonna talk about disrupters aren’t we? Apologies, is that a dad joke? that was terrible.

– Yeah that was a dad joke. All right so you know at INBOUND, Brian gave his keynote and so did Dharmesh, and I actually, I got up to watch this, and I actually loved it. So there were five main things that he went through. I’m just gonna quickly go through all of them, so you can get out and see, but I would encourage people to actually take the time to go over to YouTube and watch the keynote. You will actually learn a lot from it.

– [Craig] I’ll just mention you don’t have to watch it I’ve listened to this. Like I’ve got the YouTube app, and I just listened on audio on the way home. It’s actually, you don’t really need the slides. There’s a few jokes and stuff in there that you get, but just listening to it, it could quite easily be a podcast, his keynote, which is very hard to do. It’s very hard to cover multiple mediums so that you can get a lot of value out of it just in audio, but then also being in present, it’s kind of enhanced. So full marks, this is a masterpiece in giving presentations, as is Dharmesh’s, who we’re gonna chat about next week.

– [Ian] Yeah and so really his keynote was about experienced disrupters, and all of these businesses, they’re all billion dollar businesses, and he kinda went through five things. The first one was these disrupters get experienced market fit. Number two they remove friction from the sales process. Number three they use personalization really well. Number four they sell through customers, and they attack their business models. So they don’t just stick to traditional business models. And then there was no mention of blockchain or AI in there Craig.

– [Craig] I think that was an interesting point ’cause he was talking about disruption and innovation, and yep, blockchain, AI and machine learning, they weren’t in any of his slides. Yeah it’s really about the experience, isn’t it and the model?

– [Ian] I don’t know whether I mentioned this on last week’s podcast but one of the things with selling through your customers, he was talking about an experience he had with his dog.

– [Craig] Oh yeah about the little T-shirt?

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] Actually that was all, well it kinda was selling through customers, but that was more around business buster, no, business model busting.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] Where, yeah, the T-shirt didn’t fit and then he said, oh, I contact them and they said oh, that’s fine, you keep the shirt, give it to a friend, and we’ll send you a new one. It’s like, how many people do that, besides Amazon? But yeah, how many companies? Well it’s kind of becoming more normal but this is the disruption, and the incumbents can’t do that, they can’t change their models quick enough. So yeah it was a really good example.

– [Ian] Yeah, and that was one of his things I think, was selling through your customers, where telling Brian to give that shirt to somebody else was actually them selling through him onto a friend of his, who then experience the product from that business.

– [Craig] Right, well he actually gave another example of selling through customers as well, which was, I think it was a cosmetics company, and he was talking about how a lot of the content and the views on YouTube are not actually the products’ companies but people that use their products, and basically talk about how awesome it is, and that is the way it’s selling the message and creating awareness, and yeah, selling through your customers in that way.

– [Ian] That’s right. Now we also have in there, IMPACT had a good round up of the keynote.

– [Craig] IMPACT Branding. Yeah they, and Carina Duffy, hey, shout out to Carina, we love Carina. Really good post covering keynote, actually.

– Both keynotes.

– [Craig] -Yeah, did a really good job, I’ve really found them valuable.

– [Ian] All right, Craig unto HubSpot marketing feature of the week.

– [Craig] Hey, before we do that, I just want to talk about the experience that I had, and continue to have with Amazon, because when I was listening to Brian’s keynote, I kinda felt like Amazon ticks a lot of those boxes.

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] And actually in the keynote, the talks about how they do actually talk with people like Amazon and Atlassian and things like that to get that kind of feedback about what’s a better model for selling. But I had this great experience with Amazon. So I read a lot of friction, ah friction!

– Friction really are you reading friction books, Craig?

– [Craig] I read a lot of fiction on my Kindle, as in the Kindle app. Anyway I tend to read those junky, you know, spy and action ones and detective stories. Anyway, I read this detective story, and the end was so bad, I hated it so much. I don’t use that word lightly, I hated this book, I hated it.

– I know, I’ve not heard you say that.

– [Craig] I had such a strong emotion because, I’m not gonna tell you the book, well maybe I should, but I’m not gonna, but, at the end of this detective story, the protagonist, she chasing the killer of two women. Finally, finds the killer, and the killer kills her and gets away with it.

– [Ian] Yeah right!

– [Craig] That was the end. In hindsight, the book was leading that way, it was kind of going down a dark path so to speak. And I’m like, I really hate that, and I felt like there’s hours of my life I’m not going to get back. Well, I’ll tell you what I did get back, I got back the price of that damn book, ’cause I got straight on to Amazon, and I said I want a refund for this outrageous book. And straight away I got a refund. No questions asked,

– Oh wow!

– Amazon just bang. And in fact, you can actually do it on the Kindle, you just log into Amazon, you just request a refund for this, they take it off your app and bang refund’s just… I love Amazon thank you. So even though there was no justice in that book, slight bit of justice in terms of getting my money back. Anyway that’s my disrupter story for you.

– [Ian] That just goes to show, that experience that you had, now you’ve just spoken about it to everybody, and you know, people are gonna go and start returning their Amazon books.

– [Craig] Well you can do it on Kindle, I wonder what they do with the paper. I have never tried this with Amazon to return a physical book. But can you imagine going into any bookstore, like Dymocks here in Sydney, and going, “I want to return this book”, “Why”, “I hated it”. I wonder if they’d give you a refund?

– [Ian] Maybe we should try that next week–

– [Craig] The bookstores of tomorrow will probably do it.

– [Ian] Yeah. All right now Craig, onto our marketing feature of the week, and this is about using your marking dashboard wisely, and why we’re talking about this is experiences with customers this week, but there are lots of reports you can add to the marking dashboard in HubSpot, and I think one of the key things is that you’ve gotta understand, with all of these reports, is what do you want to achieve? What do you wanna see, and what numbers really make sense to you? One of the things that we often do is have longer timeframes on certain reports. So one of the ones that I often put is the number of contacts that are created by month, and we look at this historically over time, so when we are talking to our customers, we can actually see over time, is inquiry consistent, and is it following a pattern? So when they go, “Oh, it’s really down this month”, I’m like, oh hang on let me go and check back the last two years of this same point in time and see whether there’s a correlation. And that really helps up understand, is it something that we’re doing or something that we’re not doing, versus something of the way the market and the business is operating, and that’s a really key insight. So I think, tip here is, understand what you want to achieve on these dashboards. Now, you can slice and dice this and do whatever you want, but have the information that’s important to you, and don’t be afraid to add some new reports. Like there are new reports that are being added all the time. Add them onto your dashboard, see how they’re performing, if you like them you can keep them, if you don’t like them get rid of them. But also you can click through to these reports and see the underlying data. That’s one of the biggest things that we have seen change in the reporting part of HubSpot recently, which has been a really good change.

– [Craig] So I’ll just ask you, do you have like a set of go-to reports that you have? Because one of the things I’ve found with clients when we go through the dashboard, when you go to add a report to it, or, I wish they’d call them widgets, but add a report to the dashboard–

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] You go in, there’s a list, there’s so many, and you can kinda get overwhelmed, and go, oh, maybe I’ll take that one and this. And then the other thing of course, you can do is those custom reports where you can have your own kind of dimensions in a way. Do you have a set of go-to’s? You’ve got a screenshot here in the show notes, but life cycle stages, sources, Have you–

– Correct. Yeah, they’re definitely ones. So marketing performance is one of them, and that’s pretty standard. Sessions by source, we do contacts, generated by day generally. Sometimes, if we’re looking at longer timeframes, by month. A new one that I like which they’ve put in there is the marketing influence revenue report. That’s quite good.

– [Craig] Go the extra.

– [Ian] We have by lifecycle stage that’s a really good one. There is like like stacks in the deals that I like seeing. I like to see time in deal stage, and to see whether the people are missing certain deal stages, that’s another one that I really enjoy. And in that whole, deal stage funnel, to understand where people are in that funnel as they’re going through. And what’s actually interesting, the default setting on that report, in the deal stage funnel, is that people have to actually pass through every stage of that funnel to actually show up. And that’s the default. Now if you check and you go hang on that doesn’t look right, it’s because this is a default setting. If you uncheck that, you will then start to see all the data flow through, because people can skip certain stages.

– [Craig] That’s a great, I remember that was a gotcha the week–

– [Ian] It was.

– [Craig] A fair while ago. You know we should’ve have a bit of a recap show where we pull out or best gotchas.

– Gotchas.

– [Craig] ‘Cause that was a beauty, that one.

– [Ian] Yeah so look, I think go with the standard to start off with, and then experiment with what you want. Over time, I’ve noticed businesses that we work with on a weekly basis, come back and say, oh look, I wanna know more about this, or what’s happening with that, and then I try to uncover a report that will ask that question or better understand how we can get to that data in a meaningful manner that they can use to make business decisions from.

– [Craig] Cool, what about just a straight contacts per day? Do you use that with many clients?

– Yeah I do.

– [Craig] That’s one of our certain go-tos because, especially if we’re doing this scheduled weekly report you know, and so listeners if you’re not familiar with this you can actually just share your dashboard to get automatically sent out as a PDF or an email, straight email, weekly, we normally set it up weekly for clients, and if you just got contacts for the week, it’s a great snapshot, they just get it first thing Monday morning, bang, oh okay, I don’t even log in or anything.

– [Ian] You know I’ll tell you one thing I do with one of our customers is, we check because certain leads that get generated are manually assigned because of the way they’re handled. And one thing we discovered that leads weren’t being assigned quick enough, so they’d appear and there was no contact owner. So I added this report to a dashboard that got emailed out every Monday morning to the head of the business, which said oh here are all the unassigned contacts.

– [Craig] So why, who, someone manually assigns them?

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] Why, what’s the reason in that case?

– [Ian] Okay so they have a national sales team. In certain states we were automating the assignment of leads to certain sales people, certain sales teams. There were a few different states that we couldn’t do that based on certain criteria that was a bit more complex than what we could achieve.

– [Craig] Right, gotcha.

– [Ian] So somebody in the office actually gets it and they go, oh yeah this should be, ’cause based on this, it may be this type of equipment, with this person experience it has to go over here, and we’ve just discovered that this wasn’t happening in a timely fashion. So I’ll actually said oh well, we’ll keep a tab on this. So I added this into the dashboard, and then you did their scheduled email every Monday morning, which sent this report to the head of the business.

– [Craig] You know what you could do? You could set up a list that is unassigned contacts, and you could trigger a workflow that anytime say, unassigned contacts goes over three, you could say triggers the workflow which sends an internal email, that basically says warning warning, there’s more than three unassigned contacts. Now of course as long as you’ve got that re-enrollment,

– Criteria.

– Criteria in place, you could just be going, and that person would just be then, knowing they were in strife, on top of that, bang there’s an email going out internally, and you can send it to key managers. That’d get them going.

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] That’d solve the problem right there.

– [Ian] You can just see here the different uses of the dashboards that we have, based on what we’re trying to achieve.

– [Craig] We could call them reprimand workflows. You know how you choose oh, contact, company, deal workflow, oh reprimand workflow. Someone’s KPI on the line here .

– [Ian] That’s right, and then you send them out a, what do you call it, what’s that survey thing?

– [Craig] Oh the MPS kinda survey.

– The MPS survey.

– [Craig] All right, moving on.

– [Ian] All right, onto the HubSpot sales pitch of the week, Craig, and this is diving into quotes on deals. Now why are we talking about this? Because…

– [Craig] Well you know what? I got a call from one of our clients. He was in an airport in the US coming back from a conference, called me and he said, “Oh, I’m just catching up on some work, “I’m looking at these quotes in HubSpot, “and I just want to shoot out a quick quote “to a client or prospect. “What do you think? “Are the quotes any good?” So that’s the call. Are quotes in HubSpot any good? So I thought is was worth having a bit of a chat about that on the show today to give you, here’s what I told him, these were my thoughts on it. And I said there’s pros and cons, ’cause we’ve kind a applied with it, but we haven’t embraced it. In fact, we still do most of our quotes out of Xero, as Xero quotes, cause then we can flip them into invoices pretty easily.

– [Ian] I thought you did Qwilr?

– [Craig] Qwilr for proposals.

– [Ian] Oh right, yes.

– But for quick quotes–

– For quick quotes out of, yes

– [Craig] We go out of Xero. Which has it’s own problems with scalability with my team and things like that. So we are looking to move quotes, simple quotes within HubSpot.

– [Ian] That’s interesting, because what’s gonna happen when we have a fantastic Xero HubSpot connection, Craig?

– [Craig] Well that’s what I’m waiting to see. And this was actually one of the things I highlighted. So, here’s the pros of quotes, and if you’re not familiar with this, it’s actually kinda hard to find. You go to a deal, and then it’s on your right-hand sidebar, and then you create a quote. Like, it’s tucked away. There’s no list so you can get a list of quotes or anything like that. It’s like just an attachment to a deal, and it’s hidden away. So there’s pros and cons. So, well, that’s almost one of the cons. I’ll come to that, but the pros are, really simple, got three little templates that they use, they’re all pretty good.

– [Ian] And they actually look really good.

– [Craig] – They do look good. And we’re using the modern one, so I’ve got a bit of a screenshot in the show notes about that. Simple to add contacts and products, and in fact once you’ve got a product can log in place, it actually becomes really good, I think. I’ll tell you another nice thing about quotes is you can add recurring and one off items, and it will give you subtotals, say oh here’s your cost today and here’s the recurring cost. I think that’s quite nice. Like, Xero won’t, it won’t handle that. E-signature is currently in Enterprise, but they’re gonna bring that down to Pro I think, in November. So I know a lot of people just have Sales Pro. So e-signature’s gonna be nice. Prospect can get, and approve.

– [Ian] And that buy button too Craig.

– [Craig] Yeah, oh, the buy button. But that’s on a product isn’t it? You don’t actually get the buy, oh, sorry, you mean the buy–

– No, you need Sales Pro to get the buy button.

– [Craig] Oh okay, got you yeah. So there’s the e-signature, and then there’s also the Stripe integration so that they can actually approve the quote and pay. So that’s nice. And here’s a nice little one. I’ve actually got this in the screenshot. As you’re preparing the quote, there’s two fields, one is payment terms and one is comments for the buyer. And you kinda have to manually type them in, but I saw there’s little snippets. So you can build snippets, HubSpot snippets, which can include personalization, I’ve tested this. Just go to snippet, bang, so I’ve actually got two snippets set up now, that’ll pre-fill comments and payment terms.

– [Ian] That’s a really smart tip, Craig.

– [Craig] It’s really not, it was just hidden out there. So that’s gold in a way. So that’s good. So they’re the pros. Let me tell you some of the cons. The main one is you can’t edit a quote after you’ve sent it. I find this infuriating. I assume there’s good reasons for it, but it’s probably the big thing stopping me. I can imagine if it’s been approved and accepted.

– [Ian] Well the thing is you can, right, if you look at, Well I was testing out PandaDoc, early this week. Like once you’ve sent that quote, you can actually go in and edit it, and it’ll show up as the different–

– [Craig] No not in HubSpot you can’t.

– [Ian] No, not in HubSpot. In PandaDoc.

– [Craig] Right, but that’s my point right? Cause in HubSpot you can’t,

– Exactly.

– You can’t edit a quote. In Xero we can. That’s probably the biggest barrier. As I was alluding to before, you can’t search for deals that have quotes. There’s no criteria or filtering. I actually contacted HubSpot Support about this. I said, “Look, how do we do it?” They came back and it’s kind of the path I was going down anyway, which is you create custom properties on the deals. So that’s what I do, and in our next gotcha of the week, I’ve talked about how I’ve implemented that. It doesn’t support tax automatically, so GST. You can add a tax line, but you manually have to calculate it, there’s no kind of tax codes or anything. It uses a HubSpot domain so you can’t use your own domain and everything. But that’s the same with Xero, it’s the same with a lot of tools actually. And there’s no protection on quotes on deals. So let’s say you, although, let’s say the deal is closed as one, you can still just go in and delete a quote. There’s no audit log, no trail or anything like that. So you can have quotes, I haven’t actually tried it if they’re paid, whether you can delete a paid quote. I’m gonna assume you can’t, but maybe you can. So there’s no real protection. So they’re some of the downsides. I assume they’ve got plans for it, so yeah. Anyway, that’s the summary of it. Did you have anything to add to that, Ian?

– [Ian] I was testing this for a customer, because they asked for, in their products, to have a image of the product, because they sell physical products. And you can’t actually do that, so that was one of the barriers with using this to get that done. And yeah, look apart from that, I love how simple it is to get going quickly. That’s one of the best things I’ve actually discovered by using this. So if you’ve got a pretty simple way you can do quotes and you just gotta get stuff out there, maybe you just need to get a one off payment or you need to simply get paid, It’s a great thing to use. It’s not a tax invoice.

– [Craig] That’s true, it’s not a tax invoice although it does include your ABN. If you’re in Australia that’s our tax ID. So one of the reasons that I like quotes in Xero is because someone approves it, and then I can immediately turn it into an invoice. Here I’m gonna have to manually, then go over to Xero. Which I would do normally if I had a proposal, say through Qwilr, anyway, but it just shortcuts that preparation piece. It doesn’t give you any benefit in terms of the overall process.

– [Ian] And there you have it listeners. There’ll be more on quotes later on.

– [Craig] Now we better rush along. I’ve been yabbering so much, we’re almost at time already, but shot four is really just around the gotcha of the week, which is to do with quotes, and that’s just to say what I’ve added is a custom deal property. I’ve made it a date picker, and what I manually have to do is when I send a quote, create a quote attached to a deal, I manually update this date field on the deal to say here’s when I created a quote. Now that’s only gonna work if you create one quote. If you create multiple quotes then you’re gonna have to have some other way. But yeah, it’s the way I get around it and then, of course, you can do filters or views on your deals. So I actually wanted to list how many deals have I got that have quotes on them? That’s the simple thing I wanted to do. So custom property is your friend there.

– [Ian] All right Craig, onto our Marketing Tip of the Week, and this is about Google announcement about changes to rel equals no follow, or, in other words, people that build links, or have people linking to their sites, because they might actually guest post on another site and have a link back to their site. There’s been a bit of hoo-ha this week about that and how Google’s gonna de-rank people’s sites, take it off and all sorts of things.

– [Craig] Who is saying that? Google’s not saying that, and in fact, no one in the SEO community that I respect is saying it. Where is all this misinformation coming from?

– [Ian] That’s a good question, because I got an email this afternoon with someone saying our site’s gonna disappear in March because, you know.

– [Craig] Oh my goodness. Look, listeners, if you’ve got no idea what we’re talking about, that’s actually fine. There’s nothing that you have to do. If you’re a bit more savvy on the SEO piece, and you understand the relevance of links, and perhaps your even actively trying to get links to your site, which you should, create good content, have other people link to it, that’s a very worthwhile exercise, we know that Google sees links as votes of confidence. Even then it won’t even affect you, but you’re just to be aware of it, And we’ve got in the show notes links to three key resources that I respect. I used to be an SEO consultant as many people know. So these are three resources you can read up about it. But for 95% of people, there’s nothing to do. And really, it’s like if you’ve got big media sites or things like that, you might wanna change. It’s a just a change to the rel equals no follow attribute in links, and they’ve got two new parameters that you can choose from. Full details in the show notes, but the summary, do not worry about it. There’s almost nothing you have to do.

– [Ian] All right, Craig, onto our insight of the week.

– [Craig] Well you know what we’re coming up to time. This is a blog post I write about why I’m not really sharing much on social, I’m doing a lot on my personal blog. So I’ll just leave the link, I won’t dive into it.

– [Ian] So I wanna read you five main reasons you’re doing this Craig.

– [Craig] Oh okay, go.

– [Ian] Number one is you have a permanent record of it. Number two you have a searchable record because you can search your blog, You can share the link loves, so that’s a good one. Time management, avoiding the timeline, time suck. I think that’s a really good one. And number five, mental health, avoiding the dopamine hit of social likes. And I think these are all valid points, and I totally agree. It’s like, we were in a little rabbit hole just before we started recording this, looking at stuff, and we were like, oh hang on, we need to get out of there and get on with the show. So I totally agree with you and it’s something that we’ve gotta constantly be aware and keep in check in our lives. All right Craig, onto our app of the week, and this is the Google Maps app.

– [Craig] You know, when you were showing me this, I was like, oh, this is the Google My Business app, ’cause it’s got all the Google My Business criteria and that, and you’re like, no, it’s the Google Maps app. So what’s the Google Maps app got?

– [Ian] I was doing this because I added in a new location for a customer of our, and then when I opened the app, the other day, I saw oh, it’s showing me the weather. Oh what else is there? And then I went on a little wander around and I discovered that all the data in basically Google My Business that’s available to a business is now appearing in the maps app. So if you search for something, a business for example, whatever data Google can pull off the listing, it’s gonna show you videos, it’s gonna show you a post, it’s gonna show your location, it’s gonna show your business hours, it’s gonna show your products that you have on there, some updates that you made. So it’s like it’s all there. People don’t have to leave and go somewhere else. They can find everything about your business right from the Google Maps app. So, my key thing is here, is make sure your Google My Business is actually up to date, and that you’ve checked it, with all the new features that are available, because it’s showing up in places that you’re probably now aware of.

– [Craig] We must sound like a broken record how much we talk about the importance of your Google My Business listing, but listeners, please, just get this in place. This is not a senior person required job, this is a junior co-coordinator piece. You just get a process, you gotta do it every week, update the Google My Business listing. We do this for all of our clients. It’s kinda the first thing we tick a box, gotta get the Google My Business. And seriously, it’s so easy. Like I think we schedule out things and organize, it takes an hour or two for each of our clients. It’s not a big task, and the amount of value they get. That’s the other thing, Google My Business listing, you see how many impressions and clicks it gets. And I compare this with companies that don’t do it, and then they spend all this money on a huge content strategy, I’m just like, get your Google My Business listing in place, you’ve just like, you’ve… Yeah, anyway, you get the point.

– [Ian] Yeah look, and I tell you it’s important because if you look at the Google stats, the number of people that do a search and then visit a local business, and the time frame, I think think it’s like, within hours of them doing a searching, trying to find a product or service and then visiting that local business. It’s not long between, and if you don’t have your information there, you ain’t around. So I would encourage you to do that. Now Craig, we’ve got some resource of the week, and a collection of famous speeches with transcriptions.

– [Craig] This is nothing to do with marketing. It’s just an awesome resource. So James Clear has put together famous speeches. I was watching J.K. Rowling’s Harvard commencement speech from 2008 thanks to this site highlighting it. Wonderful speech, just awesome content from really famous people giving really useful, insightful advice. Totally recommend it.

– [Ian] All right, Craig, onto our quote of the week. And this is from Sakichi Toyoda. “The more people use my inventions, “the better the country will be.”

– [Craig] And what were his inventions?

– [Ian] He’s the founder of Toyota Motor Company, Craig.

– [Craig] Wow, so cars.

– [Ian] So I mean obviously he’s got lean manufacturing and a whole bunch of other things that he’s come up with. But, you know what, I love cars, and I wanted a quote from somebody to do with automotive.

– [Craig] Fair enough, too.

– [Ian] And how I was relating this is, in marketing, we test and measure a lot of stuff. We talk about it on this show, and we share with a lot of people that we know and that we’re close to. And you know what? I never hold things with a closed fist, and I know you do the same, is that we are happy to share and happy to help others to get a better result.

– [Craig] Is that the expression? Hold it with a closed fist?

– [Ian] Yeah.

– [Craig] I’ve never heard that, that makes total sense. Wow, I love it when I learn things like that.

– [Ian] Well there’s the drop of wisdom for the day, Craig.

– [Craig] Sure is.

– [Ian] Well listeners, I hope that you have enjoyed this show and you’ve learned something. We would appreciate it if you could share with people that are close to you that would actually enjoy this. We would love you to also send us a message on Instagram, and we’d love to hear from you. Email us. Our details are on the site. If you wanna message us, we’d love to hear from you.

– [Craig] I think we’ve got it behind a form with multiple fields and a Captcha, and all kind, no we don’t, just contact us.

– And they’re also the people we don’t want to work with, right?

– [Craig] Just checking.

– [Ian] All right, I hope you guys have a great week. Until next week, see you later, Craig.

– [Craig] Catch you later, Ian.

– [Ian] Thank you for listening to this episode of HubShots. For show notes, resources, HubSpot news, including practical strategies you can implement, visit us at hubshots.com.

Episode 173: Inbound19 & the importance of having a 6-pack!

Welcome to Episode 173 of HubShots!

HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

This episode we chat about Inbound 2019 – some of the announcements and what we especially liked. Plus, why having a 6-pack is important.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/173-inbound19-the-importance-of-having-a-6-pack/

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD3Uo4X-IxPJLE8ygPDQhNQ

Subscribe to our Spotify channel here: https://open.spotify.com/show/7oee8w41riN5aRNrLKT2ar

Join the Facebook group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/hubshots/

Follow us on Twitter here: https://twitter.com/hubshots

Follow us on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/hubshotspodcast/

Follow us on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hubshots/

Recorded: Tuesday 09 September 2019 | Published: Friday 20 September 2019

Shot 1: Inbound Thought of the Week

Thoughts on the product announcements…


The awesome:

  • Facebook Messenger integration with Conversations
  • Forms integration with Conversations
  • Buy now button coming on Products
  • Landing pages coming to Starter
  • Starter will have 3 follow up emails
  • Workflow Go action
  • Sales Quotes are getting better (and bringing some Enterprise features to Pro)

The other:

  • App Marketplace experience
  • Workflow folders

Dharmesh keynote:


Brian keynote:


Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Connect Facebook Messenger with HubSpot Conversations



Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Removing friction.  How can we do that in sales?

In Brian’s keynote, he spoke about these 2 things in the 5 points he had.

  1. Removing Friction
  2. Personalising

How are we removing friction from our sales process?

Are we making it easy for people to deal with our business?  Can they find what they need and buy what they need without going through a long sales process?

He mentioned the companies that disrupt use data well to personalise.

Also with great data comes great power, but great responsibility comes with it too!

Shot 4: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

Workflow Go action is not yet in Contact Workflows.

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

Make your home page URL clean





If you don’t use just the clean URL you will confuse Google.

Often Google won’t give you a 6-pack for your brand term

You ideally want Google to show a 6-pack so it takes up more of the page:

xen systems   Google Search

Shot 6: Insight of the Week

The Group Chat trend



Interesting insights from Andreessen Horowitz around the rise of Group Chats as a path to transactions.

The article predominantly covers WeChat trends in China, but is applicable to many messenger apps including WhatsApp and FB Messenger, albeit with some privacy differences.

In a nutshell, the Group Chat approach involves dedicated ‘concierge’ admins who help members with questions. Often on a path to purchase.

A few key insights:

  • groups are often small: 500 people max, and usually less than 200
  • are often invite only (ie no public way of finding them)
  • or are otherwise word of mouth (they aren’t promoted)
  • they prioritise safety (often members are private, using aliases instead of real names/phone numbers, etc)
  • history of messages is only available from the point of joining ie a new member can’t see the history of previous questions
  • the groups grow relationships and trust
  • product recommendations are highly likely to be followed
  • products are added in the chats, with a link to purchase
  • the groups also allow group buying options which result in cheaper per item prices based on increasing group purchase quantity
  • the focus is on personal service, and not on technology to automate the chats

This is interesting from a number of points, and highlights that technology is still lagging in terms of delivering automated chat experiences. It is clear that embracing a conversational commerce approach requires more personal resources. Using automated technology actually destroys trust and value (at least currently).

All the bigger brands I interact with via chat, are definitely people driven (as opposed to chat bot). This requires significant resource, and is a factor to be weighed carefully when potentially adding to your marketing strategy.

Shot 7: Gold of the Week

How to turn blatant copying of your site into a promotion for your services:


Shot 8: Tweet of the Week

When Google puts 4 paid ads ahead of the first organic result for your own brand name:


Shot 9: Quote of the Week

“How they sell that is how they win.”

  • Brian Halligan (from 2019 Inbound keynote)

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week


Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

Episode 173: Inbound19 & the importance of having a 6-pack!

– [Ian] Hi everyone, welcome to HubShots episode 173. In this episode, we talk about Inbound19 and the importance of having a six-pack. You’re listening to Asia-Pacific’s number one HubSpot focus podcast. Where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks, and features and strategies for growing your marketing and sales results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found, and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. How are you, Craig?

– [Craig] Ah, really good. And wow, 2019, just finished. We’re recording this on Tuesday, September 10. You’re supposed to be just back from Inbound, but what actually happened?

– [Ian] I didn’t go, Craig.

– [Craig] So, just at the last minute?

– That’s right.

– You had to cancel.

– [Ian] Canceled. Selling was more important?

– [Craig] That’s right. Sell better. But, in spite of not attending you did get, and we both got, a bit of a taste of what happened at Inbound,

– That’s right–

– And we we’re looking forward to chatting with some of our friends. Actually about next HubSpot user group.

– Exactly.

– We’re hearing all about it and also sharing some of the experiences. But, how did you experience Inbound 2019?

– [Ian] I set my alarm for 3 a.m. And got up to listen to Brian and Dharmesh, that’s how it happened.

– [Craig] And what did you think of their keynotes?

– [Ian] To be honest, I really enjoyed Brian’s keynote and Dharmesh’s keynote. And then I waited half an hour to listen to Christopher O’Donnell deliver the product updates.

– [Craig] Well, we’re gonna talk about some of those product updates in a second, but I haven’t actually watched the keynotes yet, from Dharmesh and Brian. I’m looking forward to those, although I am seeing Dharmesh is just getting rave reviews everywhere, talking about how awesome it was. So, my expectations are high, I’m looking forward to that.

– [Ian] Yeah, so listeners I encourage you to, we’ll put the links to the videos, take some time to actually go and listen to them and write some notes because there is absolute gold in there in how you can transform your business.

– [Craig] We’re gonna unpack those in future episodes. So we’ll do Dharmesh next week and then maybe Brian the week after. But on to some of the announcements. And so, Chris O’Donnell mentioned a few and there’s been actually a good blog post, I actually think they did a good recap video which we’ve got in the show notes.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] Let’s chat about some of the things we’re gonna call, there’s the good and the bad, well, we’re gonna call it the awesome and the other. Let’s talk about some of the awesome things that we liked.

– [Ian] First one is the Facebook Messenger integration in Conversations. I think that’s fantastic.

– [Craig] This is in beta now. I was lucky enough to get the beta, so we’ve got this connected for one of our companies.

– Yes.

– And it’s really good. It works really well. So, we’ve got links in the show notes, in fact, that’s gonna be our marketing tip of the week in a second.

– [Ian] Second one being forms integration with conversations. So, again, this is another great one. Support forms can go straight into conversations.

– [Craig] I’m really liking conversations and I really like how it’s, I think you get it in the free tier as well. Do you get forms in the free tier?

– [Ian] Yes, I think you do. I actually just tried to test it on a free account that we have.

– [Craig] And I’m pretty sure you get Facebook Messenger as well. Like, this tool, the free tool, I can’t believe how much value there’s getting in it and, well, that brings us onto another thing that’s coming into, well actually not in the free, but in starter.

– [Ian] It’s how to start better with landing pages, Craig.

– [Craig] They’re bringing landing pages into starter.

– [Ian] Now we’ve spoken about this a lot of times. And I think one of the key things with this landing page tool is the drag and drop editor. Like the new email editor is gonna be the landing page editor, which will be really interesting to use, actually. And I think a great experience for people that are just starting like, what a great way to start.

– [Craig] You know what, we’re gonna have to go back to whatever, what was that episode when we talked about our marketing stack? I can’t, was it episode 145,

– Yeah.

– [Craig] Something like that. Where we talked about all the tools we use together to have our basic marketing stack. And there was Mailchimp and then another landing page tool, and then HubSpot started. Basically, we’re gonna have to review all that and basically replace them all with HubSpot starter.

– [Ian] Absolutely.

– [Craig] Because one of the other things coming in HubSpot starter is you get three, not so much automated, but they’re like a sequence. Mini-automation, in a way. Three follow-ups from a form submit, so that’s coming. I actually haven’t seen that part yet, so I’m looking forward to seeing how that’s implemented.

– [Ian] All right, and then the other one is the Workflow on the Go action, in Workflows–

– Now which

– [Ian] Which we’ve tested out.

– [Craig] We chatted about this last week and we’ll talk about in the Gotcha of the Week ’cause it’s not in contacts yet, it’s in companies, deals, and ticket work flows. But this is an awesome, much-wanted and long overdue feature.

– [Ian] And there is the Sales Quotes. And in Sales Professional actually getting the e-signature and one more which we didn’t have in the show notes which is a Buy Now button, being able to actually create a Buy Now button integrated with Stripe and create that within HubSpot with what looks to be minimal fuss, and I’m really looking forward to that one.

– [Craig] Yeah, so that’s good. Now, they’re the awesome things. I just wanted to make a comment, ’cause this came up in the WhatsApp group as well.

– Yes.

– Someone was saying was the kind of product announcement, was it a bit underwhelming? And I felt it was. What were your thoughts, Ian?

– [Ian] It wasn’t like last year where we had new products. We had a sleuth of new things. Like, very visionary, I guess. This year’s been all about cementing that base, I think, and making things work better.

– [Craig] I think that’s right. It’s almost like the Apple iPhone releases, they’d have a big advance one year and then the next year it’s just the “S” version which is kinda the just refinement, I kinda feel. I kinda feel like last year was the massive, was the iPhone X for HubSpot and this year was–

– XS.

– [Craig] Oh yeah, tweak a bit. I’ll give you an example. From stage, Christopher O’Donnell promoted that they’ve put in folders into Workflows. Like, that is just I can’t see why that warrants mention from the stage in a major keynote. It’s like that was the extent that they had to talk about. And I guess that’s it, I can’t wait to see what happens next year. But yeah this was, it was very much a consolidation and kind of refinement piece and the tools are much, they are getting so much better. Even things like the quotes tool that deals in the sales side of things, just really nice now. So yeah, lots of refinement.

– [Ian] And also the new app marketplace experience I mean I’ve been using that a little bit and I think it’s a good initiative and it’s actually been pretty well done.

– [Craig] It’s just getting nice to use. It’s nicer to use. Like, it’s not a big jump, there’s nothing major about it. I mean, there’s a lot more people or apps in the marketplace. But it’s just a nicer experience.

– [Ian] All right, Craig. And on that note, do you realize it’s four years since we started this podcast?

– [Craig] I didn’t realize. Four years? Of course it is! Inbound, of course.

– [Ian] It was a week after Inbound when we returned to Sydney.

– [Craig] Ah, the time.

– [Ian] Happy anniversary, Craig.

– [Craig] Happy anniversary, Ian, thanks.

– [Ian] I hope your beverage is nice and warm.

– [Craig] And thank Thank you again for forcing me to do this. We’ve told this story before on the show but yeah, at Inbound four years ago you said, “We’ve gotta do a podcast.” I was like, “I dunno if I can do a podcast. “Would anyone listen to it?” Well, you forced us to do it. We were terrible at first, we’re better, I don’t know if we’re great or good yet, but we’re getting better and certainly I, we both really value it and hopefully you listeners get some value out of the show as well!

– [Ian] Yeah, and thank you to all of the friends we’ve made along the way. And have become kind of an integral part of our businesses and lives. So, we appreciate all of you guys. Thank you. All right, Craig, onto HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week and this is connecting Facebook Messenger with HubSpot Conversations.

– [Craig] We’re just following on from what we said in the first shot about this feature. It is so easy to use, it’s very slick. So, all you do, you’re in conversations, by the way this is part of the beta, so you gotta sign up for the beta. I signed up for it and I got it pretty much a day later.

– [Ian] And I also think if you create a new HubSpot account, because I’ve created some new HubSpot accounts, it’s available in there as well.

– [Craig] Okay, even better. So, you basically, from your Conversations inbox, you go to inbox and you go “Add another channel” you go “Facebook Messenger” Tick. It prompts and it opens up and says, “Tell me which Facebook page to connect to.” You just choose it, and then it’s in there. Then you pop back into your actual Facebook page and you might set that your main CTA to be a Messenger thing. Tested it, basically. Bang, that opens Messenger and you’re straight into HubSpot. Here’s the great thing of course, if you’ve got the Slack integration, that Messenger thing goes into your conversation in HubSpot which goes into your Slack channel. So, again, you’re just replying to Facebook Messenger things from your Slack channel that you’ve denoted. It’s so good. I find this is the way it should be. Really easy, reduces all the friction. A joy to use.

– [Ian] Yeah, so our tip to people out there that are actually using Facebook Messenger would be to connect this in and manage it better in the Conversations inbox. Or to give Sales the ability to manage it from the inbox. All right, Craig, onto our HubSpot Sales Feature. I want to talk about removing friction and this really stemmed from Brian’s keynote at Inbound 2019. Now he had five points that he spoke about, but I just wanna highlight two from there. One was removing friction and he talked about businesses that are being disruptors, right? And why they have grown and all the examples he used were billion dollar plus businesses. How they’ve been disrupting and winning. And two of the things he used was, one was removing friction from the whole sales process. And the other, two, was personalizing. So, personalizing experiences. So, I wanted to talk about how do we remove friction from our sales process? Now you need to really think about this and are we making it easy for people to deal with our businesses? Can they find what they need and can they buy it without actually interacting with us? What can we automate in that process of buying? Now I think that Buy button that’s being introduced that’s a great great step. And he also talked about companies that use data really well to personalize. So, understanding what they’re doing, when they’re doing it and using that data to appropriately talk to them or give them what they need at the right time. And he also said, you know, with great data comes great power, and great responsibility comes with that too. And that is absolutely true. You can see, you can see what’s going on in the media with people like Facebook, Google, and so on, like, data security is essential. But you know there is a lot of it around is how do we use it appropriately? And he was talking, he gave lots of experiences. One of the experiences I liked, and this might not relate directly to what I’ve spoken here, but he was talking about, he buys dog treats from a particular online store which gets delivered every week. He ended up buying a Superman shirt, I think it was. For his dog, whose name I’ve forgotten.

– [Craig] Romeo.

– [Ian] Romeo, that’s right. Have to bring Milo in. Milo and Romeo. And he was saying, so he ordered the shirt, it was too small. So he rings up customer service. So this is a I guess, a point of friction that people would have. Rings up customer service thinking they’re gonna say, “Send it back. “And then we’ll send you the other one.” Anyway, this is what he got. They were like, “Oh no, that’s okay Brian. “If you want, just give that shirt “to one of your friends that has a dog, “that it’ll fit and we’ll just “send another one right now.” And he was like, “Oh, okay.” And then he gave it to one of his friends, I think who had a dog, spoke about his whole experience and now they’ve just gained another customer for life, out of his friend. And you just think about the experience he’s had. He hasn’t had to go through this rigamarole of “Ah, let’s go to the post office, “now I gotta post this back to this person.” All of that’s gone out the window. So, just understanding that, is a key thing, right? He had heaps of stories. But I wanted, understand for us and for your businesses, if you’re a listener, what is a process people are going through dealing with us and are we doing some stuff because we’ve always done it or because that’s what we’ve been taught to do? Or have we actually thought about what is it like to deal with us as a person or a business and how does the other person feel? I think that’s what it comes down to. How do I make it feel like they’re dealing with a friend?

– [Craig] That’s so well put and such a good example. And customer service, yeah, delivered there. It’s kind of the Amazon experience, isn’t it? We all need to emulate that. That’s become the table stakes in a way.

– [Ian] All right, Craig, onto HubSpot Gotcha of the Week. And this is the Workflow Go actions, which we spoke about in the last episode.

– [Craig] Yes, it is. So, we love the Go action in Workflows. It means you can tie branches together.

– [Ian] And, you know what, it got me this week when I was trying to find it in contact workflow

– [Craig] This is the thing. ‘Cause everyone’s so keen to use it, they’re like “Ah.” And of course, the first thing they try to do is use it in a contact workflow. Well in fact, so as I said we’re recording this on the 10th of September, it’s not in Contact Workflows yet, it’s in Companies, Deals, and Tickets.

– [Ian] But it is coming.

– [Craig] It is coming and I can’t wait. ‘Cause that is, that is a feature of the year. Folders in workflows? Not doing it for me. Go action in workflows? Yes.

– [Ian] All right, Craig, and onto our Marketing Tip of the Week.

– [Craig] Yes, this is the importance of having a six-pack and, I’ll tell you how that, we’re talking of course about the Google six-pack which is when you, say, search for your brand name and you see not only your first result, but then six other site links there, so we’ve got a screenshot example in the show notes of this in action. The reason this has come about is because we’ve seen some HubSpot agencies, I haven’t seen it with other companies, it’s only HubSpot agencies, where their homepage doesn’t have the slash, like, just the default URL. They have their homepage set to something like brand name dot com AU, or brand name dot com slash

– [Ian] Inbound marketing agency.

– [Craig] Inbound marketing agency or Digital marketing agency like as the URL. And I’m not sure why they do it. Someone’s probably read a blog post somewhere that said you should have keywords in your. Anyway, it’s bad advice. Your homepage should just have the root URL. And the reason is because it confuses Google. And so, we didn’t want to I guess point the finger at people, but there’s a couple of agencies around Sydney, HubSpot agencies where they’ve, they haven’t got this root URL, they’re got this long URL as their homepage, and they don’t have a six-pack for their brand. And, well, what are the reasons you would want to have a six-pack, Ian?

– [Ian] Well, firstly, let’s take up more space on that search page, Craig. Like if you just look at it, the amount of real estate you can take up there is another, probably, one and a half results, let’s put it that way, on that page right next to your local listing. So, I would liken this, these six-packs to having six site links in your Google Ads, which is almost identical, you could almost mimic exactly that.

– [Craig] That’s right. So if you want to check, just type your brand name into Google, search for your brand. And if you’re not getting at least seven links, your main link and then your six-pack, then there’s work to be done.

– [Ian] Correct. And just have a look and see how that’s working because there’s a massive opportunity there for you to actually do that. All right, Craig, onto our Insight of the Week, group chat trend.

– [Craig] Another really good post from Andreessen Horowitz in their, I guess, insights into digital trends. And this one’s about the group chat and again looking at behaviors in China. And the rise of what I’ll call the concierge group chat. So these are private groups, could be on WhatsApp, well these are often in WeChat, could be in WhatsApp, could be in…

– [Ian] Messenger?

– [Craig] Could be in Messenger. What’s the other one I’ve just had a mental blank with? Telegram and other messaging apps like that.

– [Ian] Yep.

– [Craig] So these are private groups, they’re often invite only, they’re not publicly available. In some ways you could say our WhatsApp group is like this.

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] It’s not really publicly findable, unless you see a link from us. It’s normally invite-only, you’re normally booted out as soon as you start spamming.

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] Or are obnoxious in the group.

– [Ian] Which we’ve done.

– [Craig] Which we have done, yes. And it’s a safe space and here’s the key, though. It’s the entree to e-commerce and transactions. So basically, brands are setting these up. Very much the case in China. Set up brands especially for people traveling and going abroad, they’re asking questions of what’s this? Good examples in this article about “What adapter should I use here, “I’m in another country.” “How can I find this?” And then, often, “What should I use to do” and products are promoted and they’re sold and it’s like this, the barriers are down, you’re not being sold too. You have a need that’s being answered right there. Okay, I’m just gonna click the buy link and buy it. And so that’s it. It’s the pathway to transactions. So this is an excellent article about–

– [Ian] To reduce friction.

– [Craig] About reducing friction, but also behavior trends that are changing and that as marketers we need to be aware of. So this advertising on the newsfeed in Facebook, sure, keep doing that, but we’ve gotta be aware of all these other channels and, some of them you can’t even get into. So it’s not an advertising play, it’s actually a provide value play. And the key takeaway I had from this is that you need a lot more resources. This isn’t something you just outsource to an agency or if it is, here’s an opportunity for agencies to be actually providing that service authentically. It’s a resource-heavy piece and so this is where brands will have an advantage, that if you’ve got the bigger, kind of, base across customer support, this is a channel where it’s a first mover advantage for sure before this becomes mainstream.

– [Ian] Gold.

– [Craig] Speaking of gold.

– [Ian] What is the gold of the week, Craig?

– [Craig] This is an article on Medium right. It’s about a health company, actually to do with doctors, where they had a form, online form that you fill out. And one of their main competitors completely copied every single element of the form completely with spelling mistakes, the questions they asked, like there’s a whole bunch of questions, takes you through a series of forms. Gotta read this article, ’cause they’re just pointing the finger. But it’s written so well, ’cause they said: “Thank you so much. “We take this as such a compliment, “it’s so encouraging to see that “you’ve just copied every single decision we made. “It’s obvious that we have done it right and well. “However, here’s a few things that you didn’t copy “which we do recommend in addition, “because your clients will love this as well “’cause we know ours do. So, recommend.” It’s written so well. And it’s kinda like, this is the promotion of the week for this brand. Anyway, it’s an article on Medium, it’s gone in the show notes, go and check it out, it’s classic.

– [Ian] All right, and the tweet of the week, Craig? “When Google puts four paid ads ahead of your first organic result, for your own brand name.”

– [Craig] This blew up on Twitter. Jason Fried, from Basecamp, talking about how he has to bid on his own brand name to appear, and lamenting that there’s four other ads ahead of his first organic result. And they’re all competitors bidding on his brand name. Now, we’ve known about this for years.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] And we kind of use it with our clients. It’s kind of one of those unfortunate things that happen in Google, so you’ve gotta embrace it. But to many people not aware of this, they’re appalled by it!

– [Ian] So let’s read this ad, I was quite amused by the ad. And I was actually surprised it was able to run, but anyway. It says, so this is the ad headline, it says, “Basecamp.com. “We don’t want to run this ad. “We are the number one result, “but this site lets companies advertise against us, “using our brand. “So here we are, a small independent co., “forced to pay ransom to a giant tech company.”

– [Craig] When you read this, of course there’s hundreds of replies, and replies to a lot of them, he couldn’t even use the word “Google” in his ad to say “Google won’t let us run ads here” He had to say “This site.” He couldn’t actually say “Google.” So, the hypocrisy. In a sense like, oh no, you can’t say anything detrimental about the Google brand, but of course Google will let lots of other brands sit ahead of you in the search result. So it’s great. And I think it’s good, it’s a barometer of people’s–

– Correct.

– [Craig] I guess frustration with huge tech companies, in a way.

– [Ian] All right, Craig, and our Quote of the Week? And this is from Brian Halligan, from his 2019 Inbound keynote, and this really stood out to me, it says, “How they sell is how they win.” All right, there’s some Bonus Links of the Week.

– [Craig] There was one just talking about, this was just a WordPress plugin. You know how Chrome supports lazy–

– [Ian] Lazy loading?

– [Craig] Yeah. So there’s a plugin that will actually, you pop on WordPress and it’ll go through and make sure that they are all set, mostly images, to lazy load. So, even faster performance.

– [Ian] And we’d love you to share this podcast with anybody that is using HubSpot or is considering using HubSpot as that would greatly help us. So, thank you, listeners, for another great year as we finished four years of podcasting and we enter another one. I hope you’ve been enjoying listening to us And until next time?

– [Craig] Catch you later, Ian.

– [Ian] See you, Craig.

– [Craig] Hey there, thanks for listening to this episode of HubShots. For show notes and the latest HubSpot news and tips, please visit us at hubshots.com.

Episode 172: Sales workflows, clean lists, persona challenges, billboards

Welcome to Episode 172 of HubShots!

Welcome to HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

We hope you enjoy the podcast as much as HubSpot’s CEO, Brian Halligan does.

This episode we chat through sales workflows, keeping contact lists clean, challenges with personas, plus advertising on billboards.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/172-sales-workflows-clean-lists-persona-challenges-billboards

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD3Uo4X-IxPJLE8ygPDQhNQ

Subscribe to our Spotify channel here: https://open.spotify.com/show/7oee8w41riN5aRNrLKT2ar

Join the Facebook group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/hubshots/

Follow us on Twitter here: https://twitter.com/hubshots

Follow us on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/hubshotspodcast/

Follow us on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hubshots/

Recorded: Wednesday 04 September 2019 | Published: Saturday 14 September 2019

Shot 1: Inbound Thought of the Week

We are recording this on the start of Inbound, and since you are listening to this after Inbound there will be a bunch of new product announcements to go through.

With that in mind, we’re not going to focus on features this episode, instead we’re going to mainly focus on ways to use HubSpot to improve your business.

Love drinking coffee that’s kept at the right temperature. Thanks Ember mug! Listen to shot 7 in Episode 163 for more details:


Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Keeping your contact lists clean to improve email deliverability. It is important to segment your contacts.

To clean up your contact lists, use any of the following contact properties to get more context about their original source and why they’re engaging with your business.

  • Create date
  • Last email date
  • Recent conversion date
  • Last form submission
  • Last email opened
  • Last email clicked
  • Last reply
  • Last date purchased
  • Last activity date

If your contacts are more than one year old, run a re-engagement campaign to confirm that they are still interested in your content and hearing from you.  Also would be worth running them through NeverBounce as an additional check.

Did you know? A spam complaint rate of 0.1% on a single email is a red flag that will increase your chances of bouncing or landing in the spam folder.


Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Creating deals using workflows.  As an example, you can create a deal when you get to a particular deal status.

Tip: think about what information you want in the deal specifically if sales are working on it.


Shot 4: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

Associating deal activities.  If you create them from a workflow they won’t have the associated activity to start.  So be aware of this.


Special shout out to Joy from HubSpot support.

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

Using Billboards

0 BdPOu4IfzEGuXS G(in an Inboundy way of course)

What we take away from this:

  • If Brian did not live and work in San Francisco for a month he would not have had that revelation about billboards
  • He learned is that there are some clever ways to measure effectiveness.
  • He learned they need to keep them very simple.


Shot 6: Insight of the Week

Mapping your personas to ad targeting

You can prepare your personas in a number of ways. Often they are based on roles or function (ie job titles or department), however they can also be approach based, as well as

For example, some clients use approach based personas eg

  • Innovator / Early Adopter
  • Collaborator
  • Analytical / Functionality


This is all fine in terms of preparing content and messaging. But can be challenging when preparing targeting for ad campaigns eg how do you target an innovator on Facebook?

These personas end up needing an extra level of mapping. And usually this needs to include titles and interests.

Some further reading:



Shot 7: Podcast of the Week

2Bobs with David C Baker and Blair Enns


We love David C Baker:


Shot 8: Shoutouts of the Week

Glenn Miller  from Lupo Digital


Zoe Palmer from Brand Chemistry:


Shot 9: Quote of the Week

Advice for modern marketers.  Automate the buying process.  Users are expecting you to automate their processes.  They want a self-service experience with your company.

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week


Tools to try


Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

Episode 172: Sales workflows, clean lists, persona challenges, billboards

– [Ian] Hi everyone! Welcome to HubShots episode 172. We talk about sales work flows, keeping your list clean, persona challenges and billboards. You’re listening to Asia Pacific’s number one HubSpot focus podcast, where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks, reaches and strategies for growing your marketing and sales results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found, and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. How are you, Craig?

– [Craig] Man, I am so good, I am so pumped up on caffeine and sugar tonight, I gotta tell you. And when I’m drinking my tasty beverage, oh my goodness, the temperature is just perfect.

– [Ian] What temperature’s that, Craig?

– [Craig] Well, I’ve set it at 62.5 degrees on my app on my phone, ’cause I now have an Ember mug. That’s right!

– [Ian] Now listeners, we’ve spoke about this Ember mug in some previous episodes, but before I go along I just wanna say happy birthday, Craig.

– [Craig] I wanna say thank you Ian, and thank you for my Ember mug. That was an awesome surprise today, so I feel very, very lucky, and, as a result, caffeinated up with tasty beverage at, what time is it? Coming up to eight o’clock at night, so yeah.

– [Ian] All right, listeners. Now, you’re listening to this episode. When this comes out, INBOUND 2019 will have gone and INBOUND 2020 will be on its way, and next year it’s actually gonna be in August.

– [Craig] Yeah, that’s right, but by the time you hear this, inbound for 2019’s all over so we’re thinking, well, tonight’s not much use if we talk about some latest HubSpot feature because there’s gonna be a ton more released over the week so we’ll chat about that in upcoming episodes. Instead, what we’re really just gonna focus on is ways to use HubSpot, I guess, from an approach-based, as opposed to specific functions.

– [Ian] That’s right. Do you want to move onto our HubSpot marketing feature of the week, Craig? Now this is really something key, that we see often, following the last episode where I got myself into trouble with some unclean lists, I thought it’d be really good to highlight the importance of segmentation of your lists and also creating lists to make sure that we are engaging with people that are actually engaged with our businesses. So there’s some really good things and there’s a support article there that I want to highlight. But to keep your contact list clean, you know, there are lots of properties in HubSpot that you can actually create lists out of, so, you know, when they were created, when the last email date, the recent conversion day, the last time they submitted a form, the last time they opened an email, they clicked a link, they replied etc. So there are lots of things you can do. One of the things that they suggest if contacts are more than a year old, is to run a reengagement campaign to confirm that they still are interested in hearing from you. I would also go another step and say run it through NeverBounce and as an additional check. And this is not a hard thing to do. It’s very easy to actually connect to NeverBounce to HubSpot, because it is a platform, and it can connect, so you can run the check through NeverBounce and then push the data back into HubSpot. And I wanna also say, did you know this, and I didn’t know this, a spam complaint rate of .1% on a single email is a red flag that will increase your chance of bouncing or landing in the spam folder.

– [Craig] .1%? I did not realize it was that tight.

– [Ian] That’s right, and that’s why I called it the Did You Know.

– [Craig] Oh, this segment? Nice, interesting. Yeah, well some good ways to break down segmentation there and I like the warm-up campaign, but yeah, behavior-based, it’s based on how they interact. You’ve got some examples here in the show notes, but well, last emailed they opened and how many emails, pages they visit, all those kinds of things so they’re good indicators of intent.

– [Ian] Now Craig, onto our HubSpot sales feature of the week, and this is really about optimizing sales process. We want to highlight this because not a lot of people might be aware but you can actually create deals using work flows. Example, how we do this for a customer is when a contact gets a particular lead status, we might then wanna just start tracking that in deals, so we kick off a deal work flow to create the deal at that point in time. We copy a lot of the information that we might have collected from the contact originally into the deal. That’s actually required by sales, so that they don’t have to keep going backwards and forwards. So that’s something else we’re doing. Now, the caveat here is make sure the properties you’re copying are of the same type.

– [Craig] So when you say the same type, what do you mean?

– [Ian] Example, I was doing one recently, one of the properties I was copying was actually a multiselect. Except when I created the property on the deal site, I just said it was a single entry field, and then it flagged it that there was a problem, so it needs to be identical to be able to do the copy across.

– [Craig] It’s a good example. Look, this is a really good tip, actually, creating deals from So, give you an example, it might not just be fill out a contact form, ah, create a deal, that might be a bit premature. But let’s say they go through and they might have requested a quote or you’re getting them very close to purchase, you wanted to automate as much as possible. Gee, we should have a quote about that in the show, at the end. But really, if you can get them to that point and set up in HubSpot, what you can actually do, they fill out the form, they put a whole bunch of details, okay, creates the deal, you can set the name based on who they are, and then you can also set internal notifications, so that might not go to you, it might go to someone in sales, might go to someone else, perhaps in delivery and things like that. So automating all those thing is a really good idea and deals is just one part of it that helps you not only automate your business, saves time, but actually reduces missed opportunities. Plus I get captured right there and then.

– [Ian] Now, onto our HubSpot gotcha of the week, Craig.

– [Craig] Firstly, shoutout to Joy at HubSpot support. She did a great job at answering this question for me. Back onto creating deals from work flows, I was doing this and I wasn’t seeing any activity. So generally when you create a deal when you’re in a contact, you’ll actually end up seeing, if you’ve got your settings correct, you’ll end up seeing all of the activity in the timeline on the deal. So I’d done this and then I went to the deals. I’m like, “Where is this? It just looks empty.” Anyway, there’s a knowledge-based article here about why that happens and how to, I guess, get around it or maybe how to fix it if you need to, but it’s not readily apparent when you’re doing this. So you can associate multiple activities on a deal ticket, or associate single activities, and it’s based on the record so you can actually associate those records to that deal, if you want it to show up. So just be aware of that.

– [Ian] Right, so just so I understand this, you’re saying if you manually create a deal, you get that option to associate recent activity, 30 days of activity, emails, etc., to the deal. But if you do that from a work flow, you don’t get that option.

– [Craig] You’re right, so bit of a gotcha there, okay.

– [Ian] All right Craig, onto our marketing tip of the week.

– [Craig] To be done in an INBOUNDy way, no doubt, Ian.

– [Ian] That’s right, and this is about using billboards. Now, I thought this was rather interesting. This is an article that Brian Halligan has written on Medium, and he talked about using billboards, why it helps but actually using billboards. So, I thought it was really well written. Like, he had kinda gone through the whole process about why he thought it was a good idea. And not just he thought but he actually took him back to the business and they discuss it. But I thought there were kinda three key take aways that I got from this that he had mentioned in this article. Now, he’s gonna write a follow up after this post the billboard being up for a couple of months, and then he’s gonna report back. But here’s the three that I got. If Brian did not live and work in San Francisco for a month, he would actually not have had this revelation about billboards and how important they were, in San Francisco and in the community that he was targeting. He learned that there are some clever ways to measure the effectiveness of billboards as well, which he didn’t actually mention how, but he said he’d discovered them in the journey. Number three, he learned that the message that they did, although the billboard, needed to be kept very simple, because people just don’t have time. So just think of the purpose of the billboard, and he goes, it had to be super simple. So literally all they have on the billboard, it says, “Your sales team will love you.” That is it. And they’ve got “HubSpot CRM, Grow Better” on the bottom, which is quite small, but that is the key message here. I’d encourage you to read the article because it kind of opens your mind up. I mean, we do all this stuff in the digital space, what other channels are we missing in the market that we’re targeting, because we’re not actually looking at it from a customer perspective.

– [Craig] I think this is really interesting as well. By the way, we’ve got a screenshot in the show notes of the billboard, what it looks like, and it is very simple. It’s cool. I’m really interested in this kinda thing. It’s offline, as we would say. But I was actually looking at not so much big billboards, but actually the digital billboards you see around, ’cause we see a lot of them in Chatswood and around the city here. They’re digital, and I actually was looking at this when my wife’s last book came out, ’cause I was gonna do a bit of book advertizing. I was actually looking at, ’cause some of them have got them in bus shelters now. But more specifically, I was gonna be looking around in the center of Sydney, around George Street, because there’s a few K Dymocks store there. Dymocks is a bookseller in Australia, for any overseas business. And I was actually gonna try and do it impression-based, just to have those key moments, like lunch time, etc., to advertize her book. And in terms of measurement, it actually would be very easy to measure because these are digital billboards, you can say, “Oh, well I’ll put it on for this week “and check the results.” ‘Cause we do get semi-real time book sales results. The thing that stopped me, and I think this is only a short term thing, the minimum spend was just too high. So it’s not like Google Ads or Facebook you can jump on and do $10 a day or something. They just needed corporate accounts that need many thousands of dollars of spend at a time and which was too much just for promoting a book. But that will change, the whole self service billboard market I think will come in, and especially digital billboards. You see these outside lots of lifts in buildings these days. It’s another piece. Now, we typically don’t do that ’cause we don’t think we can measure it, but I, and I’m interested to see how Brian measures it, but for my point of view, it’s actually quite easy. Turn it on for a week, turn it off for a week, and as long as there’s a very strong tie to purchase, so an eCommerce piece would be the most obvious example, or book sales would be another. If you’re promoting a profession services piece, that might be a bit more difficult to align. But certainly, those other mediums, those other channels that coming in place, and I’m really keen to use them. I actually think there’s those first moments for opportunities for those as well, for small business. Of course, the big brands have it already, but this is coming downstream to small business as well.

– [Ian] All right Craig, onto Inside of the week. Mapping your personas to ad targeting. Now this is something that you and me have both come up against and understanding when we talk to businesses it’s about understanding who were targeting and how do we talk to them, right?

– [Craig] Yeah that’s right, so I’ll add a bit of context around this. I’m gonna say most, actually might not be most, but many people when they think of personas and they prepare personas, they’ll do them role-based, so we’ll say they’re role-based, so it could be job titles, job function, that kind of thing. That’s pretty common and I think HubSpot would even push you down that path if you hadn’t come across personas before. I guess very simple to understand about a persona, about a person, you might add some demographics, age, etc., but it’s often role-based in what they do. And that’s because it’s very easy to target. Now, bigger brands and, well, maybe some actually more sophisticated brands don’t always go down role-based, they’ll go down approach-based. So an example might be they say, “Aw, look, we’ve got an innovator,” or “we’ve got a collaborator,” or “we’ve got early adopter as a persona.” And I often build out messaging and content around that, and that’s actually, it can be quite powerful. I was actually in a strategy session today with a client and they’ve gone down that path with approach-based personas, and talking about it, “Right, so how do we get campaigns going on?” I’m like, “Okay, that’s a good approach “but there’s actually a second piece of mapping “that you need to do,” because when you think about all the paid channels, they are quite often role-based or function-based or interest-based. So you can’t go onto Facebook and go, “Ah, I wanna target innovators,” or “I wanna target first–”

– [Ian] Collaborators.

– [Craig] Collaborators, or early adopters, right? It’s a lot harder. You’ve actually gotta do some extra thinking about how you target them. Now, on Facebook, that’s quite often based on interests, but on LinkedIn, for example, you’ve often gotta tie that actually back to a role or a title or job function. So, I think the inside of why we include it in the show is just to be aware that personas that can have extra, more sophistication, there’s pros and cons of both.

– [Ian] All right. Craig, our podcast of the week.

– [Craig] I’ve been listening to the 2Bobs podcast, and, you know, our friend, good friend of the show, David C. Baker, we love him. So he cohosts this with Blair Enns, who wrote the book “”Win Without Pitching””, which I’m reading at the moment.

– [Ian] I have read that book a while back, yes.

– [Craig] It’s so good, I’m really enjoying reading this. This is perfect for agencies, but also for marketing managers, I would say. So I’ve listened to a couple episodes, been going for ages, so this is not a new podcast. Been going for ages and I’ve only just started listening to it now. Fantastic.

– [Ian] And what’s been one of the one stand out highlights that you heard recently, Craig?

– [Craig] Okay, so he targeted this ad agency, this was talking about six types of people that are a bad fit for your agency. However, this could also work with marketing departments. But he looked at personality types where, you know, people come in and extend their influence and all kinds of characteristics that they do, or they try and block out other people so that they have, kinda, in charge, they’re the go-to people, they make themselves indispensable. All these kind of staffing issues, so that was one. Then he was in another episode, they were looking at some of the ways that you deal with procurement. Really interesting insight, I found, as an agency, ’cause Blair was actually recounting this experience he had at a conference where a procurement manager for, like, Coca Cola or something like that got up and said, talking to a room full of agencies, and said, “Ah, you all think you’re so differentiated and so unique,” and they said, “You’re all the same. “You all charge the same some kinda costing model. “You all say you’re different but it’s all the same, “you know, you’ve all got this unique process, “but it’s actually all the same thing “and it just presented differently. “You’re not unique. “We’re gonna pay you X dollars per hour, “that’s it, take it or leave it,” right? I thought it was a really good comment. And so, as you would know, both David and Blair, when they talk about differentiating, they talk about expertise. So it’s not really the way you position your agency, it’s about the expertise you bring to it. So I found that really interesting and I guess for any marketing managers presenting their own product to the market, it’s about how you differentiate and based it on expertise or other features.

– [Ian] Yeah, I think you’re absolutely right, Craig. That’s exactly what’s going on, right? Take away is to go have a think about that and actually figure out, are you positioning yourself correctly with your expertise? All right Craig, we got two shoutouts of the week. So Glenn gave you a shoutout from INBOUND. Hey Glenn, this is Glenn Miller from Lupo Digital, and he sent you a video, didn’t he?

– [Craig] That’s right. Very kind of him. Thank you Glenn. Keeping us, we’re not at INBOUND, in case you didn’t realize this as we’re not at INBOUND, we’re missing out on the fun but Glenn’s over there.

– [Ian] We are gonna be there next year, Craig.

– [Craig] I think so. And I wanted to give a shoutout to, you know Glenn’s Lupo Digital agency in Sydney?

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] Potentially a competitor. You know how people keep saying, “Oh, another HubSpot on their competitors?” We’re like, no. We don’t consider these other agencies competitors at all. Here’s another one. So Zoe Palmer from Brand Chemistry, I love their stuff. Potentially we could say Zoe and I are competitors?

– [Ian] Yeah

– [Craig] She’s actually been giving referrals to me and, oh, you know, and Amobee, Amobee. We should shoutout to Amobee, he gave me a referral, I gave you a referral–

– [Ian] You did, thank you.

– [Craig] There is so much good work to be done, and so many good agencies around, I don’t think we’d see any of them as competitors. We’re collaborators. Should be an avatar for that persona.

– [Ian] What I love at the core of them, they’re all good people. Now before we finish this segment, Craig, INBOUND next year, if you’re thinking of going, is actually August 18 to 21 in 2020.

– [Craig] Is that because that’s before the election or–

– [Ian] I would suspect so, because I remember four years ago, when we were at INBOUND was the day of the election. Anyway, so there’s two kinds of passes. You can get a all-access pass if you book in the near future, it’s 6.99, and you can have a power-pass, Craig, for 12.99.

– [Craig] The power-pass is what it’s all at.

– [Ian] All right Craig, onto our quote of the week. And I thought this would be a befitting quote from Brian Halligan. “Advice for modern marketers: automate the buying process. “Users are expecting you to automate their processes. “They want a self-service experience with your company.”

– [Craig] Only could automate the process of creating deals in.

– [Ian] That’s right, Craig. And paying for it too. All right, there’s some bonus links of the week. I think there’s some training from ConversionXL about microfunnels, not fly wheels, funnels.

– [Craig] Look! I know you baited me there! You can’t escape the funnel. Everything I talk about, the funnels, everything with clients, they understand funnels. No one gets the fly wheel.

– [Ian] You just gotta talk more about the fly wheel. It’s about less friction, Craig.

– [Craig] It is about less fiction. Well, yeah.

– [Ian] Anyway, maybe we can do it and place it on the fly wheel.

– [Craig] Later on.

– [Ian] Well Craig, I hope you’ve had a great birthday, and listeners, if you are listening to this and you love this show, we’d love you to leave us a review on our podcast or Spotify. And we’d love you to contact us on Instagram, ’cause we love hearing from you guys, or email us. And to those that we haven’t met in person, please feel free to drop us a line. We are actually thinking of running some dinners in Sydney. And, of course, when we are at INBOUND in 2020, we will get together there again. Well I hope everybody has a great week, and until next time, Craig.

– [Craig] Catch ya later, Ian.

– [Ian] Thank you for listening to this episode of HubShots. For show notes, resources, HubSpot news including practical strategies you can implement, visit us at HubShots.com.

Episode 171: Workflow Go Action, the pain of HubSpot Quarantine

Welcome to Episode 171 of HubShots!

HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

We hope you enjoy the podcast as much as HubSpot’s CEO, Brian Halligan does.

This episode we chat about HubSpot’s new Go Action in Workflows, the trauma of having a contact list get quarantined, plus a look at how Seth Godin is using Instagram

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/171-workflow-go-action-the-pain-of-hubspot-quarantine/

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD3Uo4X-IxPJLE8ygPDQhNQ

Subscribe to our Spotify channel here: https://open.spotify.com/show/7oee8w41riN5aRNrLKT2ar

Join the Facebook group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/hubshots/

Follow us on Twitter here: https://twitter.com/hubshots

Follow us on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/hubshotspodcast/

Follow us on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hubshots/

Recorded: Tuesday 27 August 2019 | Published: Friday 6 September 2019

Shot 1: Inbound Thought of the Week

Plant based KFC

KFC is about to offer Beyond Meat chicken:


I learnt a new word:  flexitarian : a person who consumes mainly vegetarian food but occasionally eats meat or fish


Btw Seeing the word ‘fried’ coming back – turns out that wasn’t the reason they rebranded to KFC in the 90s:


HUGcast – September 2019

The Sydney HubSpot User Group (HUG) is coming up on Wednesday 25 September 2019.

At the event we’ll be recording a podcast about how to get started recording a podcast.

It will also be our post Inbound event with takeaways from the conference.

Look for details here:


Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Workflow branch joins

Using Go in workflows to connect branches


XEN   Deal   Testing Deal Closed Won Trigger   HubSpot

Currently in Company, Deal and Ticket workflows.

Can’t wait for this to be added to Contact workflows as well.

Influenced revenue report – thanks Justin

Reports > Analytics Tools > Campaign Analytics:

hubshots influnced revenue


Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

3  lead scoring   YouTube

A really good and simple reminder about manual lead scoring.


Shot 4: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

Where are all the new releases?

===> waiting for Inbound19

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

Using smart content:


Shot 6: Insight of the Week

There are Google Ads, and then there are More Ads:


Interesting use of Instagram by Seth Godin:


Eg he ran an Instagram Live and Facebook Live event:


Shot 7: App Integration of the Week


Ran into some issues with email delivery this week and had to use NeverBounce.  Here are some of the results as we connected it to HubSpot to do the validation and then pushed the data back.

But how do you check it? They will attempt to create a HubSpot property named “neverbouncevalidationresult” to store the NeverBounce validation result (valid, invalid, disposable, catchall, and unknown).

NeverBounce   Dashboard


Shot 8: Resource of the Week



Shot 9: Quote of the Week

“Different’ and ‘new’ is relatively easy. Doing something that’s genuinely better is very hard.”

  • Sir Jony Ive

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week

Yet another post about doing a simple SEO audit:


Interesting link experiment going on by Dejan SEO (after their main site was penalised):


Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

HubShots episode 171

– [Ian Jacob] Hi everyone. Welcome to HubShots, Episode 171. In this episode we talk about workflow go-actions and the pain of HubSpot quarantine. You’re listening to Asia-Pacific’s number one HubSpot focused podcast. Where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks and features and strategies for growing your marketing and sales results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. How are ya Craig?

– [Craig] Oh look, really good and you know what I’m looking forward to? I’m looking forward to some of that plant-based KFC. Did you see this, the news come out recently?

– [Ian] What is the this about? That’s our inbound thought of the week.

– [Craig] Well I’ll get to why it’s our inbound thought of the week, but yeah, so KFC, Kentucky Fried Chicken, by the way they’ve been using–

– [Ian] Fried!

– [Craig] Fried a fair bit lately, anyway, the health, I guess, problems have gone away. But anyway Beyond Meat has gone huge and everyone’s offering vegan and vegetarian options now. So KFC, they’re gonna have vegetarian chicken based on Beyond Meat. Anyway I just thought, oh, what better way to start a show than talk about KFC you know.

– [Ian] But this is marketing right?

– [Craig] And why I’m bringing this around. I’m gonna tenuously try and relate this back to marketing but how things were changed. First the word fried, I saw an ad for them the other day and it said “Fried Gold” like they’re just, it’s almost front and center, fried. So that’s changed so it just shows how marketing’s changed there, someone said “Oh, let’s just embrace this.” You know? And also that whole Beyond Meat craze. Like everyone, and there’s a whole list of these companies rushing to put Beyond Meat in there. So just this kind of branding that Beyond Meat has got and the marketing behind it, everyone’s jumping on board. So really interesting times.

– [Ian] Yeah that’s right and you even look at the packaging it looks really green and I thought that was rather interesting, I mean, I guess what next?

– [Craig] Oh by the way I learnt a new word.

– [Ian] Well you taught me a new word today.

– [Craig] Okay the word is flexitarian. Had you heard this word before?

– [Ian] No I had not.

– [Craig] Well apparently it’s been around since the 90s, I didn’t know this, but flexitarian it’s a combination between flexible and vegetarian and it’s basically people that have kinda more trying to avoid eating meat and more a plant-based diet but they’re flexible about it. So yeah anyway, there you go. Word of the week. We should have a shot at word of the week anyway.

– [Ian] All right now Craig we have got the HUGcast coming in September 2019.

– [Craig] The Hug Cast. What is the Hug Cast?

– [Ian] So this is the Sydney HubSpot user group and it’s on the 25th of September and at this event we will be recording the podcast on how to start and record a podcast.

– [Craig] It’s very meta, so folks, by the way, we’re recording this on the 27th of August just before Inbound. You’re going to Inbound aren’t you Ian? Yep, flying out so, by the time listeners you hear this he’ll be back and would have heard about all the goodness that’s been announced at Inbound. So when we have our HubSpot user group in late September it will actually be a bit of a recap of Inbound. And you know what we’re doing different this time? It’s not just going to be a trotting out of the news, ’cause I think HubSpot does a pretty good job of pushing that out. But it’s actually going to be a panel which we are going to be recording as part of a podcast. A panel talking about how to apply all our new releases and features into your marketing. So it’s not just about oh here’s this new feature. It’s like here’s how we can apply it. So it’s going to be a user group event I think.

– [Ian] That’s right. And I wonder whether they’ve done one of those anywhere else in the world. Okay Craig, onto our HubSpot marketing feature of the week. And this is about workflow branch joins.

– [Craig] Right. So you know one of the big problems with HubSpot, I’m gonna say problem, HubSpot workflows is that you can’t join branches so you branch and then they each have their own path and you can’t bring them back together. So we’re almost there. HubSpot have released the go-action. And it’s quite nice actually because it’s more powerful than just joining a branch at the end where, you know, we’ve used active campaign. Others which do a good job of joining branches at the end. But it’s a go-action so you can push it off to another event. Now they’ve only got it in company deal and ticket work flows. It’s not in contact workflows yet but I’m assuming that’s coming soon. So, looking forward to that. We’re going to link in the show notes plus a screenshot, just of an example we’ve got in place.

– [Ian] Now Craig, why would anyone care about this go-action and joining?

– [Craig] So do you use branching much in workflows?

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] Right, so I tend to avoid it. I avoid using branches, yeah.

– Oh. And I’ll tell you why: because I don’t like having all these branches heading off and then I can’t pull them together, because you often get a lot of these repeated actions, branches.

– [Ian] Actions, yes.

– [Craig] Then you almost see like 90% of each branch is the same, it’s just for a few. And that’s often because those things come after the initial action that happens after a branch so you really want to be able to bring it back so you can kind of say branch do this or that then bring them back so they’re on a common thread. Now we tend to use child workflows for that.

– [Ian] Yes, which I think is what I did one of these massive workflows for a customer, and I was showing it to you the other day and you said, oh I think we need to split that up and pull out some of that in to a child workflow, which I did. So that actually worked really well. And I think it’s a good philosophy.

– [Craig] Well that’s really good, but this go action is going to

– Going to change things. mean we can avoid doing that. So I’m really looking forward to this, ahhh, so.

– [Ian] It is actually very good now that I’m thinking about it contextually in one of my things that I’ve done for a customer, I think this is excellent. All right, now Craig, we spoke about a influenced revenue report a while back and we’re just gonna touch back on this again.

– [Craig] Well this is a really good thing and by the way thanks, Justin, for this, go the extra. He alerted us or reminded us of the influenced revenue report. Now I’m not actually sure if I did know about this influenced revenue, or certainly not in my own portal. Had you actually used this report before?

– [Ian] No I haven’t, I didn’t but now I do after having this discussion. I went last week and implemented in a couple of portals where we’ve got data. So you obviously need DL data in there to make this happen. So be aware of that: if you don’t have DL data you’re not going to see anything on there. And you find this report under reports > analytics tools > campaign analytics. And then you’ve got to make sure you choose the influence contacts by revenue.

– [Craig] Well actually there’s an influence contacts and an influence revenue

– Correct. and they’re both actually quite good. Now there is a little bit of a well it’s not really a “gotcha” but you’ve just got to remember that there can be double-ups because if something is coming through; a deal has come through multiple, say, campaigns they both get counted. But it’s influenced revenue so it’s where these campaigns have influenced revenue. So it’s actually exactly how you would expect.

– [Ian] All right, on to HubSpot’s sales feature of the week! Now, Craig, I wanted to highlight this because lead scoring, and we’ve spoke about this a few times, people tend to get confused. Now even if you have a marketing enterprise, you will have predictive lead scoring which works on data that’s within the system and from the machine learning and artificial intelligence that’s going on. But if you don’t have marketing enterprise and you’ve just got marketing professional, there is this lead scoring ability but it’s a manual ability so you’ve actually got to set up what score to give certain aspects of behavior or maybe certain fields of data that you’re collecting. And I wanted to highlight this is a one minute, forty-five video from HubSpot Academy about how to use lead scoring in HubSpot. And I think it’s a good and simple reminder about setting this up in your portal. As a start, it doesn’t have to be perfect but at least get used to setting something up. You could even use this, really simple things, like one of the examples they use is that in the position field it’s “vice” like they’re looking for a vice president or vice or VC president. So one of the criteria was like I want to give it 10 points if you see this in the position field. So it’s just really simple. But I want you to have a look at the video and go and set that up. That’s the action from this.

– [Craig] And just one question: should they be watching this video with the sound on or off, Ian?

– [Ian] Well, Craig, what can I say. I would recommend sound off.

– [Craig] Okay, listen, so a big, yeah, a special bonus there if you listen with the sound on, my goodness!

– [Ian] All right, Craig, on to HubSpot gotcha of the week.

– [Craig] And you know what’s got me?

– [Ian] There ain’t no releases.

– [Craig] Where’s all the product releases? And I guess everyone saying we’re holding those for Inbound. So, yeah it’s been a pretty lean month in the product releases, I guess, yeah. Really looking forward to when it gets announced next week.

– [Ian] That’s right. I’m sure you’ll be able to watch it live on HubSpot.com. Or if you listen to this episode after you probably go to HubSpot.com/new will be the new product releases.

– [Craig] That’s it.

– [Ian] All right, Craig, on to our marketing tip of the week: using a smart content.

– [Craig] Look we’ve started talking about this lately but this is just a blog post on considerations around smart content. Worth going through, they give kind of five points around how to think about smart content. Things to consider before you jump into it. Well worth a read.

– [Ian] So let’s just pull one thing out of there, Craig. So I think this is a good one: determine who you are creating smart content for. That’s a really good one. And then determine where you want to add smart content. And then determine what should be your default content. So I’ll give you a little example. We use smart call-to-actions based on certain behaviors: maybe people belong to certain lists, maybe they’ve downloaded certain offers and now they need to be moved along on to the next offer. So this is a really simple way we use smart-CTAs to actually deliver that to people in a manner that is efficient.

– [Craig] Yeah look I think the thing with smart content is you do have to think about it carefully especially if it’s actual content within a page as opposed to say a form or a CTA because you can often get yourself into over-complexity in areas if you haven’t thought about it. Getting the default content right is important. But yeah I’ve seen people like, oh smart content– they lose track of it or they try and do multiple smart content items on a page and it all gets out of hand. So yeah this is just a good reminder to plan it out and think about how it’s done.

– [Ian] All right. On to our insight of the week, Craig. Now there are Google ads, and then there are more ads.

– [Craig] Actually this should just be a “LOL of the week” So, this is linked through to Twitter and someone’s done a screenshot where they’ve typed in a search term and basically the Google result has had a bunch of ads and it’s got another section called “more ads” and it’s like you know it’s breaking out the categories or the sections of ads sorry. I don’t know, when I, I tried to reproduce this it’s like, have they doctored this? Have they made this up? I don’t know. It’s pretty funny thought. But it’s true; that’s the way Google is becoming.

– [Ian] Now, just to– I just want to take a little step back. I’ve been reviewing a lot about accounts lately. And Google’s releasing new updates and features all the time and obviously you can test new things, right? What you tend to find is all these new features take up more space in the ad. So, you know, you could– I was, I think I was talking to a customer the other day and I think if you used all the features that were available in the Google ad tool you could pretty much take up the entire mobile screen almost.

– [Craig] That’s kind of funny. Do you remember The Onion years ago when they were, you know how men’s shavers

– [Ian] Yes you know, they’re–

– [Ian] The dollar-shave club.

– [Craig] Well, yeah but, you know, they’re like, “Mine’s got two blades.” And, “Oh mine’s got three blades!” “No, mine’s got four blades!” And then The Onion did this joke article I think, I forget how many, it was like “Mine’s got five!” or “seven blades!” or something It’s like, just like this HUGE– It’s kind of like, you know, over the top. And Gillette have actually come down and that, like it’s– It just cracks me up. Anyway, it’s kind of like Google Ads are doing the same it’s like well you can have your nice two-line ad No, no, we’re adding a third line. Oh no, four-line! You’ve got five! oh! And there’s ad extensions: you’ve got six! Mine’s got seven lines of ads! These ads are just a huge thing it’s almost like your entire phone is taken up with one ad and then you just scroll through the ad.

– [Ian] There is because you

– It’s out of control! can have a site link extension, you can have a call extension, you can have a message extension, you can have price extension. They’re really good because you kind of get a scrolling carousel of pricing. When I use these for customers it’s really impressive the amount of space you can take up. Anyway,

– Anyway.,

– [Craig] So it’s kind of just a bit of a joke, aside. On to the actual insight of the week. And this is around Seth Godin; do you follow him on Instagram?

– [Ian] I do but I don’t look at his stuff that often.

– [Craig] Right, so you should check it out. And listeners, check out how he’s embracing Instagram with his Instagram updates and he’s got videos and then he’s got the carousels. When you see how he’s doing it it’s like ah this is so obvious! Anyway, we should do this for HubShots.

– [Ian] Exactly.

– [Craig] Anyway, take a look at Seth Godin. And I just think it’s interesting. I mean, it’s not that it hasn’t been done before I know there’s some cartoonists and things like that do the carousel panel quite well. But he’s taken it from first time I’ve come and seen it done well like that and of course HubSpot’s doing that kind of thing as well but yeah, take inspiration from that.

– [Ian] And also have a look here at our Instagram Live and Facebook Live event. I think the one thing we can learn out of this is that look at what he’s doing and see what can be applicable to your business. And test and measure like we always say. All right, Craig, on to our app integration of the week.

– [Craig] All right, so when we say app integration we’re also going to go “uh oh, quarantining items.” So explain the setup to this.

– [Ian] All right so I came across this app probably a couple of months ago from HubSpot Support when I was talking about, I think I was trying to do some list cleaning and they said “Oh you should check this out.” It’s called NeverBounce. It integrates with HubSpot now. And this is because a customer gave me a list this week of resellers that they sell stuff to. I don’t think they’ve have actually communicated with them recently I guess because they’re constantly selling them stuff or they’re buying stuff. You know, accounts are billing them, emailing them. And so they thought, “OK well we’ve got these specials on. Can we email them?” Sure thing. Anyway, what do you know there’s about 400 on that list. The first 50 sent out and there’s a bounce rate of about 15%. Everything gets quarantined. Right so this entire list. So I’m thinking to myself this is not very good. You know, I get emails flown everywhere. My account manager’s notified HubSpot. Like it’s just alarm bells ringing. Anyway so I thought okay let’s take a step back. Let me go and claim these lists. So I used NeverBounce. So I actually initially just loaded the list. I think they run a free verification. So I think one list came up at about 13% I thought Okay, well that’s okay. I can get that clean. Another one came up at 20, right. And this is the one that I, I can’t remember whether this is the one I learned, one of the two. Anyway, so I thought, okay well I’m gonna clean these. So I paid, I got them cleaned and then I pushed the data back into HubSpot because there is, once it gets the list, you can clean it and you can say import it back in to HubSpot, which it does. And then I was like, Okay now what do I do? Anyway I still don’t get over this quarantining problem, right? Because now I’ve got to explain to support where I got the list from, how I communicated with them.

– [Craig] You are feeling the pain.

– [Ian] I am really feeling the pain.

– [Craig] You are feeling the HubSpot quarantine pain.

– [Ian] That’s right, it’s like I’m in jail!

– [Craig] You are in jail.

– [Ian] So anyways I’m talking to HubSpot support and just trying to understand this whole process. If I had done this process before I sent the email there probably wouldn’t have been a problem. But because I attempted to send the email not understanding how clean this list was I ran into this problem. So here’s lesson number one: make sure you ask the right questions and make sure you actually do a check and clean your list, and use a service. There are many services out there but NeverBounce is one of them, hooks in with HubSpot. The second thing is, when you’re cleaning this list and they came from HubSpot, you’ll probably log in and you’ll go, “How do I tell that the data’s actually gone back?” And I had no idea and I’ve talked to HubSpot Support and they’re probably on their way to telling me. But here it is: what it says in their support documentation is that they will attempt to create a HubSpot property named NeverBounce Validation Result, right? To store the NeverBounce validation result of valid, invalid, disposable, catch all and unknown. And I could not find that. So it’s a little gotcha in a sense because it’s hidden somewhere which you won’t necessarily know. I actually thought it might have gone into another seperate list that was created saying that these were cleaned and these were not cleaned. Anyway that’s where it is. And I’ll put a link to the support article. And for my trouble, I’ve had to respond to HubSpot Support answering those questions to get out of jail.

– [Craig] Yes. A few comments on this: Well first of all, if you’re ever wondering how an integration pushes back results there’s a fair chance that if you go and look in custom properties on the contact you’ll find something named “related to the product”. So that’s the first place to look in case you’re wondering, you know, how do I find something, push back to a contact in HubSpot. But the second is the quarantining: like is this actually fair? And do you remember a few episodes ago we were talking, you know, HubSpot released their up to a thousand email sends, and free, and all that kind of thing? And we were like “Oh man, this is going to get spammed to death.” you know, spam this playground. Well here’s the thing One: when you do send out a broadcast they only send a subset first to check the quality of it. So that’s a good sign. So it’s not like “Oh yeah we’re going to load up 10,000 spam things and just hammer it out.” No, they’re going to send out 50 or so and test and then quarantine you if you’re against it. I reckon they’ve tightened up their rules significantly. I’d like to know whether this is true or if this is just my kind of–

– [Ian] Deduction?

– [Craig] deduction on it. But they’ve tightened up their rules and they’re not going to let any people go in and just start even and you’re kind of collateral damage in a way. I wouldn’t say you’re 100% clean–

– [Ian] No.

– [Craig] because it’s an older list, right?

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] And the client has said, “Oh we want to send it to them.” We do have permission but it’s a bit older. But it’s caught you out. And you’ve said, right, well after some churn, we’re going to catch that and flag it. So I actually think it’s good, possibly the get-out-of-jail process is a little bit onerous although again you’ve got to put these hurdles in place otherwise HubSpot will just become known as “Oh yep, Spammer’s Paradise.” So I actually think it’s a good thing on balance.

– [Ian] Yes, I want to say thank you to Kershin from HubSpot Support for helping us out. Thanks buddy! All right, Craig, on to our resource of the week and there’s a link to Databox. But the 44 most destructive SEO myths according to 120 SEOs. That sounds like a real mouthful.

– [Craig] Actually it’s quite good article, they go through all the SEO myths that kind of get trotted out. So good reading. I only quibbled with one of them.

– [Ian] Which was?

– [Craig] Well one of them said this myth that between subdomain vs subfolder and they were saying Uh no you definitely should use a subfolder. I was like uh, no I don’t think that’s actually a problem. And well, as evidence, exhibit A: I’ll give you the HubSpot blog–

– [Ian] Blog.HubSpot.com! Blog.HubSpot.com, yeah that’s right.

– [Ian] And you’ve actually got something on your site about SEO myths as well.

– [Craig] Well that’s my blog post where I talk about the DataBox blog post and I highlight my quibble with it.

– [Ian] Fantastic! Now on to our quote of the week, Craig. And I thought this was very aptly put from Sir Jony Ive. It says, “Different and new is relatively easy. Doing something that’s genuinely better is very hard.”

– [Craig] Good quote. Just checking, you said Jony Iv-ee. Is it Iv-ee, or Jony Ive?

– [Ian] Oh!

– [Craig] I’m not sure about ’cause I’ve heard it said both ways.

– [Ian] Yes!

– [Craig] I thought it was Ive. Do you think it’s Iv-ee?

– [Ian] I don’t know, we should find a video of him talking about himself.

– [Craig] I don’t know. Oh look, I’ve got him on speed-dial I’ll just call him now.

– [Craig] No.

– [Ian] Aright listeners, we’ve got a couple of bonus things in the week about doing simple SEO audits. And also we would love if you could leave us a review on Apple Podcast, Spotify, and hit us up on Instagram. We’d love to hear from you. We love getting emails from people. Now, somebody did email us, Craig?

– [Craig] Oh yeah, you’re talking about Chad?

– [Ian] Yes!

– [Craig] Thanks Chad, it was great. We loved your email, thankyou for that.

– [Ian] Alright everybody, I hope you have a great week. And Craig, until next week?

– [Craig] Catch ‘ya later, Ian.

– Hey there. Thanks for listening to this episode of HubShots. For show notes on the latest HubSpot news and tips, please visit us at HubShots.com.

Episode 170: Popup forms (again), Email for sales teams, interns doing your social

Welcome to Episode 170 of HubShots!

HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

This episode we chat about popup forms (yes again!) plus more on using HubSpot marketing automation to help sales.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/170-popup-forms-again-email-for-sales-teams-interns-doing-your-social/

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD3Uo4X-IxPJLE8ygPDQhNQ

Subscribe to our Spotify channel here: https://open.spotify.com/show/7oee8w41riN5aRNrLKT2ar

Join the Facebook group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/hubshots/

Follow us on Twitter here: https://twitter.com/hubshots

Follow us on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/hubshotspodcast/

Follow us on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hubshots/

Recorded: Tuesday 13 August 2019 | Published: Friday 30 August 2019

Shot 1: Inbound Thought of the Week

The Socials

Don’t get me started… I just need to accept it.

All the interns do – more on that in shot 6.

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Popup forms

Remember when we used to talk about Lead Forms every second episode? Yes, we’re back on it again. This time with a HubSpot post where they give a basic overview of the way to use Popup forms:


The post links to an analysis of whether popup forms are effective:


In particular they ask whether there’s such a thing as an Inbound Popup form: Should Marketers Use Pop Up Forms  A Comprehensive Analysis

Here’s the relevant note they make:

“If you ask someone how they feel about pop-ups, they’re likely to offer an emotional response that loosely resembles a child eating vegetables (I call this expression “blegh”).

People hate the idea of pop-ups. Most pop-ups out there are annoying. What’s more, the pop-ups that annoy you the most are the ones you’ll remember the longest.

But here’s the thing: not all pop-ups are bad. Pop-ups can be used for good, and they can be a healthy part of an inbound strategy.

Just think about email marketing for a second. Email is another example of a channel that has been heavily abused. We’ve all gotten some crappy emails throughout the years. But as inbound marketers, we know to use email responsibly and to only send contextualized email that adds value to people’s lives.

The same goes for pop-ups. When used correctly, they can actually enhance the experience a user has on your website, as well as boost your conversion rates.”

I (Craig) aren’t a fan of popups, but I love the slide-in forms.

I also really love the ease at which you can set the Thank you actions in a button:

Pop Up Forms   HubSpot 2

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Automating sales communication from marketing

One way marketing can help sales is by sending updates.  This could be product, news or something specific to that list.  It is a great way to keep in touch with people while removing this work from sales so they can be communicating with prospects and existing customers.

You will most likely when you do this get a lot of bounces (soft or hard) and I would suggest you create lists for each contact owner/sales person to follow up.  This is a great reason for making a call!

Tip:  you can create a single marketing email with smart content that is sent from the contact owner.

For other ideas around using workflows for sales, listen to episode 164:


Shot 4: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

This is a gotcha free episode. Yay!

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

Following the entire marketing and sales process from start to finish.

Recently we found that sales calls were not being answered or not getting through.  We discovered this as we integrated the calling system with HubSpot and while checking lead quality noticed that little to no calls were being answered.

We do this on a regular basis with the business to gain lead intelligence and see if there are questions we need to be addressing on the channels they communicate.

Tip:  have a regular process to monitor and check lead quality.

Shot 6: Insight of the Week

Thinking about engagement on the socials…

How many highly effective leaders do you know that manage their own social profiles?

Working with marketing managers we are increasingly seeing the marketing department managing the personal social profiles (eg LinkedIn) of their company leaders (eg CEO).

They post on their behalf, engage, and even answer DMs on their behalf.

Which begs the question – if our clients are doing it for their bosses, how many other companies are doing it. And interpolating further, how much of the ‘engagement’ you see from people on LinkedIn is actually them?

It’s possible we are heading to a place where LinkedIn is just a bunch of interns all chatting to each other using their bosses profiles…

Remember this next time you are spending a ton of money on ads.

More: https://www.craigbailey.net/social-engagement/

Shot 7: Integration of the Week

Inbound Add-ons SMS in HubSpot


Send and receive SMS text messages in HubSpot (use workflows, contacts)

Shot 8: Resource of the Week

Clients typically…


A good way to help improve client expectations.

It’s written for agencies, but applies equally to all services business. A good thought for marketing managers and sales professionals in their conversations.

Shot 9: Quote of the Week

“Never forget that absolutely everything you do is for your customers. Make every decision—even decisions about whether to expand the business, raise money, or promote someone—according to what’s best for your customers.”

― Derek Sivers, Anything You Want

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week

Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

HubShots episode 170


– [Ian] Hi everyone, welcome to HubShots, episode 170. In this episode, we talk about popup forms, emails for sales teams, and interns doing your social. You’re listening to Asia Pacific’s number one HubSpot focus podcast, where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks, and features for growing your marketing and sales results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found, and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. How are you Craig?

– [Craig] Oh look, I’m good, Ian, and I’m right across the socials, I gotta tell you.

– [Ian] I’m sure you are, Craig.

– [Craig] The socials, seriously we can’t escape that, can we?

– [Ian] We can’t.

– [Craig] You know I’ve got a bit of a bugbear about this?

– Yes we do.

– The way people say, “Oh we share it on social”. I’m okay with that, they say, “I share it on the socials”.

– [Ian] And you know what’s interesting? More and more I’m finding people I talk to in businesses, especially marketing, are actually referring to social media as the social, so there you go.

– Yeah, I can’t escape it so I’ve gotta embrace it. So regular listeners will know I had a big whinge about this, I don’t know, couple of months ago, ’cause I just couldn’t embrace change, you know? Change, I just can’t handle it.

– [Ian] You just need to hug it, Craig.

– [Craig] I need to hug it. All my clients is calling it the socials now, so I’ve gotta adapt, but look, all the interns are across the socials, we’re covering that in shot six.

– [Ian] All right, so, onto our HubSpot marketing feature for the week, Craig, and this is to do with popup forms. Now you know we’ve spoken about popup forms.

– [Craig] Well, lead forms, we just love them. Remember, how many episodes did we have talking about lead flows?

– [Ian] Quite a few.

– [Craig] Actually they weren’t called lead forms, they were lead flows, weren’t they?

– [Ian] Yes, they were.

– [Craig] Yeah, and no one knew what that meant, so…

– [Ian] And now they’ve become popup forms!

– Hence why we had so many episodes talking about how awesome they are. So they’re called popup forms now, but that in itself is problematic in a way, because no one likes popup forms. Well, I don’t think anyone like, do you like popup forms, Ian?

– [Ian] If it provides me value on the page that I’m at, well possibly.

– [Craig] If it’s done in an inboundy way, right?

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] Yeah well, anyway, the reason we’re mentioning it is because well, forms are awesome. I like the slide-ins. I personally don’t like popup forms, that’s just my particular bias, and I’m imposing that on everyone else. I assume that if I don’t like it, everyone else doesn’t like it, but the stats would show that I’m wrong, and we’ve got a blog post, actually we’ve got two blog posts from HubSpot talking about forms, one is just a bit of an overview of popup forms in HubSpot, but it links off to another one we’ve put in the show notes, where they actually talk about an analysis of the results from popup forms, and they do really well. So I guess it’s always that balance between what we think is a bad user experience versus what the actual results are. Test and measure.

– [Ian] Like a lot of ways, if anything, when HubSpot have implemented this, I use the slide-in form often, and on the rare occasion I use the exit intent popup form, which is fine, and one thing that really annoys me with popup forms, and these are not HubSpot ones, but if I go to sites and I land there, and then within like two seconds I’ve got a form and I haven’t even actually read the page that I’m on. That really annoys me. Think about what you’re doing, and what the customer experience is, because if you’ve been there for a while, and you’re exiting, that’s fine, but if you’ve just landed there within like two seconds and the first thing you’re greeted with is a popup form to sign up for a discount or sign up to the newsletter, like, just get rid of it.

– [Craig] I agree, and you know what? It’s easy to test that, because with the popup form, what you could do is you could test for a couple of weeks, then change the popup duration, like how long the delay is before it pops up, only change that in the form, test that for another couple of weeks, then change it again, make it longer before it pops up. You could also check how far, whether they have to scroll down, things like that. So you could actually test it just to see the results change. However, the thing that I wanted to highlight in the show today, is just some of thank you options that you have.

– [Ian] I know, these seem to have expanded since we last looked at this.

– [Craig] Yeah, they’re really good. Has that calendar event one been there for ages, and I just haven’t realized?

– No it hasn’t.

– Oh okay.

– Because I’ve been setting up these for a customer, and I haven’t seen it. So this even may not be available. It might actually not even show if haven’t got any calendar set up to actually choose.

– [Craig] I don’t think so, it’s not the meeting link. So it’s not actually tied to your own calendar. You’re actually adding a calendar event for them. So they can go through the form, fill it out–

– Oh!

– So for example, you might say sign up to, would you like to attend our, you know a call or an event that we’re running. They go yes, and then the thank you is, just basically a calendar event that gets added, either as an ICS or to their Google calendar directly. So it’s not like booking a meeting in with you, which is also another option, which is good, so you can have a meeting link in there.

– [Ian] Wow!

– [Craig] It’s kinda nice, I tested it this afternoon. It works really well.

– So Craig, what is this event that you’re having?

– [Craig] Well I just made a dummy event about our HubShots Live event, where we get a whole bunch of people to join us for a one hour call and we go through a whole bunch of HubSpot-related questions, perhaps gotchas, and help people out.

– [Ian] So just as Craig is saying this is a dummy event, Craig, I reckon we should actually have a live event where we actually do this.

– [Craig] HubShots Live.

– [Ian] HubShots Live.

– There you go.

– And then, if you’re in Sydney, maybe we can do a dinner with the two of us.

– [Craig] There you go.

– [Ian] There you go, I’ve put Craig on the spot here!

– [Craig] We’ll crowdsource this one. So listeners, if that’s of value, if that would provide value, get to spend some time with us and we’ll spend some time with you, chatting through problems that you’ve got in HubSpot, or questions, or even ideas, give your suggestions, teach us something, I’d love to know.

– Exactly. Or, even some of the great things that you’re doing and you’ve implemented in HubSpot. I’m always fascinated to see what people do with the HubSpot and the tools. I’m gonna shout out to Justin, because he often does some pretty interesting things.

– [Craig] He kinda goes the extra, doesn’t he?

– [Ian] He does. Okay Craig, onto our HubSpot sales pitch of the week. Now why I wanna talk about this is, and I’m gonna title this Automating Sales Emails from Marketing. One thing that we have done quite a bit when we work with sales teams is having update emails or news emails that sales teams can send about product or their services, and often they get stuck and they’re like, oh I don’t wanna email like 40 people that I know about this same thing. And I’m like, but you don’t have to do it, let us do it for you, and it can go from, we can make it look like you’ve sent the email, and this will apply to the whole sales team. So if Craig, I’m your contact owner, you will get an email from me. If, say, Brian’s contact owner is Bill, then Brian will get an email from Bill. So like, oh okay, cool. So it’s a really good way, A, to keep engaged with people, B, if they reply it goes back to the person in sales who actually actually owns that contact, which is really good. You really quickly know if contacts have moved, because a lot of the sales teams we deal with, they deal with the government, councils, and people move around. So that might not be valid now, so that it actually gives an opportunity to actually call up and actually find out who the new person is, or they often get an auto-reply saying, “Oh, I’m not in this role anymore, “you need to talk to Bill so-and-so”, and so you can update the information, right? And the third one is, you just have this constant communication and you keep your database clean. So you know, there’s a, what is that number that, it’s called–

– Wasn’t it in the billions? Are you talking about the effect of dirty data?

– No, the attrition.

– The yearly…

– Oh, the churn rates. So, around, it’s between 20 and 30% annually, yeah.

– Correct. So this kind of keeps that in check, and keeps your database clean. So they encourage you, and one of the things we do following this, is if anything has bounced, is actually have, we create a list, actually, of all the bounced emails, and we assign that list to that salesperson to actually follow up. So you can create tasks, which I’ve actually, we’ve done in some instances, if it’s a larger list, I generally export it. I still create a list, but I export it out of HubSpot, and I send it to the person to just have a quick check, and then make those updates in HubSpot, instead of clogging their task queue with like say 80 bounced emails and 80 tasks about checking a contact. So that’s what I wanted to highlight, and it’s a great way to keeping people engaged.

– [Craig] So the one I just wanted to pick up on that you mentioned there, that listeners might have, it might have just slipped through without them being alerted to it. So, sure there’s the personalization of who it comes from, but really like that idea of who the reply goes to. So we’ve all seen this in marketing situations, where it goes out from marketing@domain.com, and then the reply comes back and the marketer has to go, oh well that’s from this person in sales, I’ll forward it on to them kind of thing. And just having this contact owner, and the reply going back to them, is really good. However, the other thing to mention is, there is a reply to address, which can be different.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] So this is also the case if you do send out from actually the contacts, and there’s a huge amount of say, out of office and all those kind of things, you can get them to go back to a different reply to address which could be, maybe a junior on the sales team whose job it is to go through all of those and just check if there’s anything important.

– [Ian] Yeah, so that’s a great thing. And another thing I failed to mention, Craig, is you can use smart content in the email, based on particular people in a list, for example, and you can change that in the email, so you can personalize that to that person based on that segmentation or that smart list.

– [Craig] I think smart content is a really good addition to that. So you are actually getting this email, you know that the goal is? The goal is always to be sending those emails that Amazon send, right,

– Correct.

– That’s kinda like the gold standard. Whenever I get an email from Amazon, it’s like so tailored to me, it’s exactly what I want.

– [Ian] All you gotta do is press the button and buy, Craig.

– Yeah that’s right, press the button. So everyone’s goal is to get their marketing emails as good as the Amazon emails, that’s kinda the gold standard. This is just kinda part of the tool chest that kinda gets us along the path.

– [Ian] Yeah, and if you’re in marketing, this is a fantastic way to actually build relationship with sales and help them along, while adding to your benefits of actually seeing how they’re interacting with the business.

– [Craig] And also back in episode 164, we actually chatted about some other ways to automate using HubSpot to benefit the sales team, so go and check that out as well.

– [Ian] All right, Craig, onto our HubSpot gotcha of the week.

– [Craig] What is kind of strange about our HubSpot gotcha of the week this week, Ian?

– [Ian] Well, we haven’t got one, Craig.

– [Craig] I was wracking my brains, what could I possibly find–

– So was I!

– [Craig] What is in HubSpot that’s annoyed me this week? There was nothing. So, you know it’s a good week.

– You just must be doing good work, Craig.

– [Craig] Well, HubSpot, good job, HubSpot.

– [Ian] A shout out to HubSpot support. Okay, marketing tip of the week, Craig. Again, this is following back through from marketing to sales, I wanna highlight this is, about having a regular process to monitor and check your lead quality. So we do this with customers on a weekly basis for the high volume accounts, should I say, and one thing I’ve found, we’ve integrated the call tracking into HubSpot, so we can actually see when calls come in, they get logged into HubSpot, and we can actually listen to the calls and see what’s going on. So what interesting here, we run a lot of paid advertising on the socials, and on Google Ads, and what’s interesting to see, is as these calls are coming in, and there was a point when I was looking into this account, and we just listened to calls, a few at first purely for lead quality, to understand what people are asking, whether we’re not answering any questions, but secondly, how qualified are these people and what sort of, can we make the qualification better with our ads and the landing page, et cetera. And what I discover, all these calls were coming in, because they were saying, oh the leads are really bad, we’re not getting anything. And I’m like, hang on, how is stuff coming in, listen to the calls, so I see all these things going into HubSpot, listen to the calls, you get the welcome message, okay that’s good, then you’ll get the hold music, and then, the call goes nowhere, and it just says, yeah, thanks for calling, no one could answer your call, hang up.

– [Craig] Are you kidding me? So they’re spending a fortune on paid on the socials, they’re sending all this traffic, they’re getting calls, and then they’re just not answering them.

– They’re not answering the calls.

– [Craig] Yeah, well those leads are really bad. Obviously there’s a problem with the marketing.

– It’s terrible, there is a–

– [Craig] Oh man, that drives me nuts when that happens. What next? What happened as a result of that?

– [Ian] Well, I’ve been chasing the IT company to fix the call routing, right. Oh, there’s a call!

– [Craig] Just put them on hold for a couple of minutes. Give them the great experience and then complain if they hang up.

– [Ian] Exactly.

– [Craig] Yeah, and they don’t stick around. Oh, low quality call there.

– So there you go. Here’s a perfect example. I just wanted to highlight, make sure, even if you’re in marketing, this is what I do, I do a random check every week, of certain leads from certain lead sources, and just make sure that we’re actually hitting the mark, we’re missing the mark. So you know very quickly that things are getting mixed and you can highlight that to the business, because they might not be aware of some issues that are actually taking place, and I think if you can do that and stay on top of it, you get a much better result.

– [Craig] You know what, this just reminded me, this need for testing and checking, I wish, I’ll give you an example of something I stuffed up recently. But it’s so important to be checking these things. So you’re always running new campaigns, right, but then someone hasn’t done the kind of the mystery shopping at the end to check that it’s actually still getting a good service. It’s Anyway, I’ll give you an example, not related to paid or anything, but I have a link to our website in our email signature, right, which is pretty normal. Now the way I set it up years ago, probably years ago now, is it basically goes to xen.com.au/i, right, it was smallest letter I could see, and all that does, ’cause it’s in my signature, as the link, not in the actual, you don’t actually see it, is that when it gets to the site, it redirects it and it puts some UTM parameters on so that I could tell it came from an email signature, right. This is pretty standard stuff, right. Anyway, that i, that /i, all it does is a redirect to the main page with the UTM parameters. You can see where I’m going here, right? Anyway, I was just checking the, by chance, clicking the link in my signature today, and it goes to /i, which returns a 404, and I was like, “What?” Anyway, that’s when I remembered, then when I moved all our sites over, from shared hosting to a dedicated server, whatever that redirect file, ’cause I had it in the root of the server–

– [Ian] Of the server, yes.

– [Craig] Yeah, somehow that got missed, so a whole bunch of redirects didn’t get brought over. So then my email signature link, it has not been working for months, Ian.

– Oh dear, Craig.

– Months, can you believe that? I don’t know how many people click on it in my signature. Well, none that I can measure in the last couple of months, but I used to get a few clicks. I’m just like, what a bad impression that must get

– Actually–

– [Craig] My email signature doesn’t even work.

– [Ian] If you go to the HubSpot sales tool, you could probably figure something out, whether they’ve clicked a certain link, right?

– [Craig] Well I can tell before it stopped, because I used to track it with UTM parameters. So I used to see how many people were clicking through, and there’d be at least a couple a week, you know, they’d click through from the… Anyway, they’ve all been getting a bad experience lately.

– [Ian] Well, you don’t exist, Craig.

– [Craig] I don’t exist. So there you go. So there’s a simple example of just something related to a server change with hosting, I didn’t think to test it. I don’t know how I would have caught it in hindsight, other than, I don’t know, if some… I mean how many people have a process to test the links in their email signature? Oh, because we’ve had this before, I’ve actually clicked on people from HubSpot, their email signature doesn’t work. And then I let them know, of course. Well, no one’s let me know, but, I found out the hard way.

– [Ian] Well there you go.

– [Craig] So, one of my own stuff ups. Easy to do, gotta test, gotta keep checking.

– [Ian] Exactly. Keep a link register. All right, Craig, onto the insight of the week, to give out engagement on the socials.

– [Craig] Yes, on the socials, thank you. So, I’ll just tell you a little story. So we were on a client site yesterday, and this client, and we’ve worked with them for many years, they’ve just been acquired, and so there’s a big all staff meeting and it’s being announced. They’ve been acquired by an ASX listed company, so everything’s gotta be… I don’t know if you’ve ever done this before, when those kind of things, announcements go out to the market, there’s a very standard, or a very clear process you need to do in terms of alerting the market. Anyway, so we had blog posts lined up, and the client had prepared this, and as part of that, there’s a whole social announcement that goes out, because there’s a number of things that you need to contain all at once. For starters, there’s staff, because 90% of the staff of both companies, the one being acquired and not being acquired don’t know, it’s all done at leadership team level. Second there’s the market, because it could impact, you know, impact share prices and things like that, and then there’s through just about clients finding out as well, so that you don’t want them hearing from someone else and then they go to the website and there’s no announcement. So there’s a whole lot of things that need to be coordinated. Why am I telling you all this? Well, part of that is the social piece, sharing on social. So what happens is, the marketing, I was working there with the marketing manager, and the marketing team, and so as the announcement went out, and the CEO of this company was making his announcement to the staff, we are at the same time, announcing that, blog post goes live, and we’re announcing it on socials. It all has to go out on the social channels at the same time. A lot of that has to be done manually, because you can’t kind of pre-schedule linking to blog posts because it pre-fills the kind of the image and metadata, which wouldn’t be live yet. So, we had to do it all at once. So we’re actually there managing the CEO’s LinkedIn page, LinkedIn personal profile, and of course an article that they’re putting out, the CEO’s putting out. So marketing is controlling all of this, and so this is all just a big lead-up to then finding out the general process. The general process for the CEO is that it’s all managed by marketing, their personal LinkedIn profile. And so when this announcement went out, it’s not just sharing things, but there’s also responses and they were getting a lot of direct messages, DMs coming, all being answered by the marketing team, right, of which I’m part, a third party right, an agency. So here’s the setup. Like, here’s the question. How often does this happen? And it turns out, well what we’re finding with our clients, is quite often the leaders of the companies, while they do actually access their social profiles, LinkedIn from time to time, but most of the time, it’s being handled by marketing. And here’s the further thing. Often it’s being handled by the most junior people in marketing, ’cause it’s like a, what do they call it, like a five dollar task, as they say. So here’s my kind of scenario. I wonder how much of this engagement that’s happening on social, especially LinkedIn and that, is actually just a bunch of interns managing all the profiles of their bosses, engaging with each other, and the question is, like, the leaders of the company, why aren’t they doing that, I would say. Well they’ve actually got high impact things to do. Much more efficient use of their time than actually mucking round on social. So, that’s kind of just my thought that I’m thinking through, especially when it comes to the fortune that we’re paying on paid ads for many of our clients, especially on LinkedIn, and then especially when they get no results. It’s all kind of falling together. Like, if it’s only a bunch of interns, like, LinkedIn is just a bunch of interns engaging for their bosses, they’re not filling in forms and responding to ads in a way that that their targeted boss might. So just something to be aware of in your paid advertising spend, and thinking through that, test and measure of course, as we say, but really, I was trying to think, and I don’t have an answer for this, was how do we actually test for this, or how do we write ads to target those people, yet be aware that it’s probably not those people that are actually there, but it’s actually their staff or interns underneath. So maybe there needs to be an upsell which is, you need this for your boss who, wink wink, we know is you. Download this and give it to your boss and look like a star because we know you’re managing the boss’s account anyway.

– Correct.

– Anyway, that’s just my bit of a rambling thought of the week, but just something that I’m considering, and it’s all about getting ROI, right. How do we get the best ROI and just to be mindful of.

– [Ian] Absolutely. All right, Craig, onto our integration of the week, and this week we’re gonna talk about having SMS in HubSpot, and this is one of, someone we know, Samantha from Inbound Addons.

– [Craig] Yes, and hello Samantha if you’re listening. Big supporter in the past, so yeah.

– [Ian] We haven’t caught up for a while. Was she at Grow with Inbound?

– [Craig] Yes, she was.

– [Ian] Did you catch up with her?

– [Craig] Yes I did.

– [Ian] Oh good, I missed her. Sam, sorry I missed you. Would have been good to catch up. Yeah, so this integrates into HubSpot, you can trigger the SMS off a workflow, it goes against their contact record, and let’s say, I think it’s $47USD a month.

– [Craig] It’s very reasonable.

– Plus your costs.

– Plus actually your message sends, yep.

– [Ian] Yeah, so I think definitely if you’re looking for a solution that can do SMS, this is a really good one that you can actually implement. All right, Craig, onto our resource of the week.

– [Craig] Nice blog post by Karl Sakas, who we saw at Inbound couple of years ago, he was really good. He does coaching for agencies predominantly, but this post could apply to anyone and it’s–

– [Ian] It’s an excellent post.

– [Craig] So yeah, what’s the post about?

– [Ian] It’s about how you phrase things appropriately when you speak to customers or prospective customers, and one of the things I really picked up from there was, he mentions like, instead of talking to them, you kinda say our customers would typically do this, or our customers typically would use this service to solve this problem, which kinda gives it a different kinda feel to how we would naturally speak.

– [Craig] I think that’s really good, so when they say, “Oh, so how much should we spend?”, instead of saying, “Oh we think you should spend”, it’s well, “Clients typically spend X amount “to get X result”, and it’s a really nice way of positioning it–

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] Without being too kind of direct to them. I think that’s a really good idea. So as I said, this post, he writes for agencies, but for any service company, marketing managers, have a read, some really good ideas there.

– [Ian] Yeah, it is a fantastic piece.

– [Craig] And also way to protect yourself from agencies that try and use these tips to their own use.

– [Ian] All right Craig, on to our quote of the week, and this is from Derek Sivers, is it?

– [Craig] Yeah, he’s written this nice little book. He started a website called CD Baby back in late 90s, ’99 I think, just before the dot com boom, and this is a little book of advice, it’s really short, just read it in one afternoon, where he gives a whole bunch of, I guess his thoughts on growing a business, and in particular, one overriding theme was the quote that you’ve picked out.

– [Ian] That’s right. It says, “Never forget that absolutely everything you do “is for your customers. “Make every decision, even the decisions about “whether to expand the business, raise money, “or promote someone, according to what’s best “for your customers.” I need not say anything more, Craig. Well listeners, we would love you to leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to this, as this helps us reach people. And it can be as simple as clicking those stars on the app.

– [Craig] They could actually give us a comment on the socials as well.

– [Ian] That’s right. We’d love you to connect with us. Please hit us up on Instagram, Facebook, we would love to hear from you. And if you’ve got any questions, we would love to have the questions, so we can actually help you and help others in the community solve those issues. Well, Craig, I hope you have a lovely week, and listeners, until next time.

– [Craig] Catch you later, Ian.

– [Ian] Thank you for listening to this episode of HubShots, for show notes, resources, HubSpot news, including practical strategies you can implement, visit us at hubshots.com.

1 2 3 18