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Episode 217: HubSpot Lists, HubSpot Site Search, How to work with invalid contacts

Episode 217: HubSpot Lists, HubSpot Site Search, How to work with invalid contacts

Welcome to HubShots Episode 217: HubSpot Lists, HubSpot Site Search, How to work with invalid contacts

This episode we discuss:

  • Sign up for HubShots Weekly Insights
  • Setting up HubSpot Site Search
  • How to work with Invalid contacts
  • A primer on using HubSpot lists (Active versus Static)
  • A gotcha with the HubSpot Consent to Communicate checkbox
  • Using Quora Ads
  • Case study on the power of social proof
  • A bunch of recommended reading and resources

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/217-hubspot-lists-hubspot-site-search-how-to-work-with-invalid-contacts

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Recorded: Thursday 27 August 2020 | Published: Friday 04 September 2020

We are finally giving the HubShots site some love.

In typical ‘cobbler’s children’ style we’ve neglected the HubShots site. This week we finally:

Our weekly notification email (ie what you are currently reading) is now the full, comprehensive show notes.

Please sign up (if you haven’t already) and tell a friend. Even if they don’t listen to the show, they can still get tons of value from the show notes.

Simply reply to any weekly email and it will go straight to Craig.

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Adding HubSpot Search to your Site

We’ve just added HubSpot site search to the HubShots site. It is very simple to do, and involves:

  • Creating a search results template (in Design Tools)
  • Setting that Template in Settings > Pages > System Pages
  • Adding a Search input Module to your site eg we’ve added it to the site Footer

As usual the HubSpot documentation has this all explained very clearly:

Reasons to use the HubSpot Site Search

Previously we had a cobbled together Google Custom Search function on the site. It was clunky and only gave (obviously) the results that were in Google. For a brand new episode, not yet indexed by Google, nothing would show up. Plus the results aren’t comprehensive – Google search results won’t find specific words way down in show notes.

But the HubSpot Site Search does. Search for anything and it will find it on the site. It’s fantastic.

Here’s give it a go on the HubShots site using this search for the word ‘cigarette’:


It will give the results for the two episodes where we discussed how Facebook was addictive like cigarettes.

Downside: doesn’t seem to support search operators eg word1 AND word2

We’ve reached out to HubSpot Support and they are investigating further for us.

Here’s how it looks on HubShots:

hubshots site search

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

How to work with invalid contacts

This started with a list we validated for a client using NeverBounce. (We discussed Neverbounce in previous episodes)

  1. Go to Contact and use the Search In Google Link

Sean Christie

  1. Then check if the contact has a LinkedIn profile and check their company and contact details.
  2. Remove the company association if they have moved.
  3. Update their email if you can from LinkedIn using Lusha.
  4. Update their LinkedIn Bio in HubSpot. Add the LinkedIn Bio to the contact like this

Property Editor 1

  1. Send a task to the contact owner to re-connect/message over LinkedIn to get the conversation started or engage with a call to update details,

Shot 4: HubSpot Optimisation of the Week

Keeping your lists in order

If you are new to HubSpot you may be confused by what the two types of HubSpot lists are:

  • Active lists (previously called Smart lists)
  • Static list – a list of contacts that doesn’t change (e.g., event attendees, staff lists for an internal newsletter, or lists from a trade show).

Important understanding: consider lists as a filter across your full database of contacts. Lists are simply a way of filtering the view your contacts.

We predominantly use Active lists, and only have a handful of static lists.

Shot 5: HubSpot Extra of the Week

Shoutout to HubSpot Support. Again!

We’ve both had excellent Support interactions this week. Always good to see that HubSpot Support continues its high standard.

Shot 6: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

Consent to Communicate Checkbox Gotcha

Using the consent to communicate checkbox and choosing the right subscription type!  Below is an example of 2 types.  When we started we did not check the subscription type and when we came to create a list with people who had opted in it did not work!

Forms   HubSpot 1

If you then want to include them in marketing then create a list like this:

Opted into Marketing Subscription  COVID 19    Lists

Shot 7: Marketing Tip of the Week

Using Quora ads

We’ve been using Quore Ads for a number of clients this past year. They are very cost competitive, can be carefully targeted, and are great for building retargeting audiences.

quora ads example

We’re finding the traffic quality to be reasonably engaged (ie not junk) but mostly top of funnel. Our clients are in the technology space.

As we usually say: test and measure

Shot 8: Quick Tip of the Week

Easily Link to a text phrase in a URL

Useful reminder from Lily Ray, simply append the following to a URL:


Use %20 to separate your words

Example link to Shot 4 in episode 215:


url text tip

Note: this only works in Chrome (ie doesn’t work in Safari)

Shot 9: Resource of the Week

The Power of Social Proof

Clearbit ran an experiment on their sign up page where they personalised the social proof (client logos + customer quote) based on the person viewing (eg a B2B enterprise visitor would see something different to a B2C marketer).

The results were incredible: a 84% lift in conversions

Example of personalisation for a B2B visitor:

b2b enterprise footer 2

Shot 10: Quote of the Week

“Many companies have forgotten they sell to actual people. Humans care about the entire experience, not just the marketing or sales or service. To really win in the modern age, you must solve for humans.” — Dharmesh Shah, CTO & Co-Founder, HubSpot

Shot 11: Bonus Links of the Week

Facebook warns that advertising performance on the Audience Network will degrade for iOS14 users

iOS14 (on iPhone) launching next month has increased privacy controls and will by default block IDFA tracking (here’s an overview of IDFA). As such, Facebook is warning advertisers that performance on the Facebook Audience Network (especially App install focussed ads) will be affected. Note that it won’t affect ad targeting on Facebook’s own properties (ie especially in App). This news has been blown a bit out of proportion by media outlets, so be wary of articles discussing it in relation to Facebook advertising in general (as opposed to just the Audience Network). If you are a Stratechery subscriber, Ben Thompson has a detailed write up (paywall).

The ecommerce surge

Benedict Evans details the rapid rise in ecommerce in the UK and USA:

“The UK went from 20% ecommerce penetration  to over 30%  in two months, and the USA from 17% to 22%.”

Key takeaway: even as lockdowns have eased in the UK, the ecommerce penetration has stayed steady. Ecommerce is here to stay.

Tips for what to say on your site if you don’t display pricing

It’s so frustrating to visitors when you don’t show pricing, which means you’d better have a good reason for now showing it. If that’s your situation, then here’s a few ideas for at least easing visitor frustration.

Google Maps Gets Better and Better

Google is constantly improving maps, this time with better colour coding of natural elements (beaches, lakes, vegetation) plus also showing road widths, sidewalks, crosswalks and pedestrian islands.

Before and after example of Arizona:

google maps arizona

SEO: Bing uses engagement metrics as part of its ranking algorithm

Notable only because they have ‘officially’ confirmed that engagement (ie click throughs, bounce backs, etc) is fed into the ranking algorithm. SEOs have ‘assumed’ this to be part of both Google and Bing ranking for a while, but it hasn’t been confirmed as such until recently. See also this link.

Shot 12: Follow Us on the Socials

Connect with HubShots here: HubShots YouTube channel – HubShots Spotify channel – HubShots Facebook group – HubShots Twitter – HubShots Instagram – HubShots LinkedIn

Connect with Ian Jacob on LinkedIn and Craig Bailey on LinkedIn

HubShots is produced by Christopher Mottram from Podcastily.

Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

Episode 217: HubSpot Lists, HubSpot Site Search, How to work with invalid contacts

Full Transcript of HubShots Episode 217

– Hi, everyone. Welcome to HubShots Episode 217. In this episode, we talk about HubSpot lists, site search and how to work with invalid contacts in sales. You’re listening to Asia Pacific’s number one focus HubSpot podcast, where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks, features and strategies for growing your sales, marketing and sales results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found. And with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. How are you Craig?

– I’m well. And you know what? I’m feeling good that we’ve finally given the HubShots site a little bit of love.

– I know you said it’s a… You aptly put it, It’s a bit like a cobbler’s child, isn’t it?

– That’s right.

– We’ve neglected that shoes

– That’s right. Or the plumbers bathroom or mechanic’s car and all that other thing. So we’ve neglected the HubShots site for so long, but we’re finally getting around to improving it. I found a bunch of broken links on it. This is so embarrassing and I’m staging link. Oh my God. I’m almost too embarrassed to talk about them.

– This is us keeping it real. This is us keeping it real.

– Too busy doing client work. Yeah, that’s right. And neglecting our own stuff. That’s, yeah… Anyway, but look, we got rid of the crappy old site search and we put in HubSpot native search in the footer. So we’ll kinda chat about that later in the show, we’ve got a proper signup page and we’ve improved our consulting page. So you can book in with either of us. That’s all working better now. Just a reminder to listeners, if you haven’t already signed up, so go to the sign up page, or it’s up in the menu there, the Newsletter, we now send out the full show notes in the email. So you don’t have to click through anything. You get it in your inbox includes all the screenshots. Plus includes a whole bunch of additional news stories and articles that we don’t get time to go through in the show. So we are planning to build… Well, our goal is to build this show notes out to be a very valuable resource and it’ll get better and better each week. So make sure you sign up for that. And if you haven’t already, that is, and also tell a friend, we’d appreciate your referral. Referring us to your friends as well.

– Alright. Craig, onto our HubSpot marketing feature of the week. And this is following on from the HubSpot search adding to your site. So this is a feature within HubSpot, which you have implemented on the HubShots site.

– Yeah, that’s right. Look, it’s not a new feature. It’s been there for a year or two now. And again, finally getting around to it. But I just wanted to mention this in the show ’cause it’s very easy to implement. We used to have this kind of cobbled together Google custom search box up in the top right and it was problematic for a number of reasons. Anyway, we got rid of that and we’ve replaced it with the inbuilt HubSpot site search. Very easy. All you need to do to enable it in your own website, a HubSpot hosted that is, is create a search results template in design tools. Then you set that template in your settings page, and then you just simply add a search input module, which is a standard module. You just put that into your templates. So, I actually just put it in the footer. So the global photo. So it’s on all the HubSpot’s pages. We’ve got show notes which detailed the two links that you need to go to on the HubSpot Knowledge Base, explains it all, super easy. I got it done in about 10 minutes and you can go and check it out on the show on the site rather, do a search and see how it works now. The thing about the Site Search it’s so fast and it picks up everything. I was searching from skew a little words in past episodes, pick them all out, much better than Google in terms of, well, indexing all the site content. And we’ve got an example there. I mean just search for the term cigarette on our site. Why that term? Because I remember there were these two obscure references when we actually talked about Facebook being a bit like cigarettes. And would you advertise on the cigarette pack? It’s trying to find them bang straight in and that’s what Site Search there. They are came up quickly. So it’s really good. And the only downside though of the site search is that currently it doesn’t seem to support search operators. So you can’t go this term and that term, but check it out are well worth it. And yeah, I think it works pretty well. What did you think, Ian?

– I think it was great, Craig. And again, listeners just think if your site has a lot of content and you don’t have this feature enabled, it would be definitely worth enabling it on your site. And I know like people that have gotten a lot of content over the years, we’re coming up to our five years. Right, Craig?

– So there is a lot of content on the HubShots site. So having a feature like this just makes it easy to find what you want quickly. All right, Craig. Onto our HubSpot sales feature of the week. And this is… I’ll put together a little process about how to work with invalid contacts. Now, you might get invalid contacts based on incorrect emails, people have actually moved jobs, emails have bounced. And sometimes if people have moved, you might be lucky enough to get a reply back saying this person has moved and this address is no longer monitored and this is their new address or this is the new person in charge. So it’s a great way to do that. So was working with a client and we just go, well, how do we put a process together to make this a possibility to keep it clean? And initially what we had done. So this kind of included results from we use NeverBounce to validate contacts and also context that have bounced previously in emails. So I was showing someone relatively new and I said, “Oh, look, let’s do this.” So I’m just gonna quickly talk you through the process. We go to the contact. So firstly, we create the contact view with all the contacts that had bounced or there had never bounced status of invalid or anything that had bounced before and went through that list. So the first thing we did was we clicked on the contact. Now, a lot of people don’t realize in the search and the actions, many there is a search in Google option. So, do that. So click that, it’ll open up a new tab. You can search for the person. Look, if they’ve got a LinkedIn profile or any other results. So the LinkedIn profile was really good to validate who they were because we were able to track back and see, Oh yeah, that is the person. It was like his two jobs ago was, he was at this particular company. We then disassociated the company from the contact record to make sure that he’s not associated with that company any longer. Then what we did, we added the LinkedIn bio field into the contact page. So the person who was going through this could cut and paste the LinkedIn bio into that field. Once they’d done that, another thing they could have done is use a tool called Lusha to see whether they can collect their new contact details if it was readily not available. So that’s a tool that we use often to just verify details. The next thing we did after that was create a task to the contact owner, to either reconnect with them over LinkedIn, or to call them up and re-engage them in a discussion over the phone and update their details essentially. And that was it. But it was a clear process of what needed to happen to get these invalid contacts re-engaged and clean again.

– So that’s a really good process. Let’s just recap. You’ve covered a few tools, NeverBounce, which by the way, we’ve covered in previous episodes, we’ll include links in the show notes. If you wanna use NeverBounce.

– Just use the Site Search Craig.

– Yes, that’s right. We use it and recommend it, then you’ve searched for them from this list. And then you’ve used another tool called Lusha or Lusha. Do you wanna quickly explain what Lusha does?

– Yes. So that works. I think there’s a Chrome plugin and it also operates when you’re in LinkedIn, it’ll be a little icon on the top right hand side, and it can generally validate contact details. So it might know their phone number or their email, or it might say that this might be a close match based on this company email format, but it’s a really good indicator. And a lot of the time it’s pretty good at picking up and getting right contact details. So it’s like a data enhancer in essence.

– Right. So good tool. And I think they have a five free credit tier it’s it’s pretty good. So you can check that out. And then you basically are using LinkedIn to find them and set a task for sales rep to follow them up. I really like this because I think it’s quite contrarian for people to do this. You know what most people do when someone… Well, so they bounce and they go, Oh, they go, Oh, well, we’ll delete them out. Then they’re like can’t. But keep in mind a lot of the time, this is a contact that you’ve worked hard to get into your funnel. You’ve probably used paid advertising or outreach or anything to get them in. So you’ve done a lot of hard work and yet when they move on, you think, Oh, it’s too hard to just check what their new location is. Here’s the thing, instead of trying to reacquire a new contact, why don’t you follow these up? So I think this is a really good process you’ve got, it’s not that hard for the sales reps to do, reach out, connect on LinkedIn, stay in touch because they’ve been in touch with you before that’s a warm contact rather than cold outreach, update their details. And perhaps you’re actually building a relationship into a brand new company. So, well worth the effort.

– Absolutely. Now, Craig, this process is actually being done by somebody who is doing marketing and sales support and not the actual sales person.

– Just try to reach out on LinkedIn.

– Oh yeah. The person who is the contact owner. Who was the original contact owner.

– Yeah. Cool.

– Yep. Alright. Now we’re gonna talk about our HubSpot optimization of the week, Craig. And this is about keeping your lists in order.

– Look, if you’re new to HubSpot, this will be useful. If you’ve been using HubSpot for ages, you’d be like, Oh, this is pretty one on one stuff, very basic, but let’s talk about it ’cause we’ve had clients, both of us have had client experiences recently where the client, and in my case, a long time, HubSpot user didn’t really understand the power of active lists. They were doing everything with Static lists. Do you wanna talk about your situation first and then I’ll talk about mine?

– Very identical Craig, where they were extracting contacts and then reloading them into separate static lists to do email marketing and where they could have actually used an active list to get the same result. So we’re gonna just recap on what the lists are and why you would want to use the list in a particular manner. So firstly, there are two kinds of list types. Let’s start with the one that is most commonly used, if people would think of would be a static list. If you’ve come from some other email marketing system and you’ve just gone, I just need to create a list. I’m gonna load some contacts in there and market to them. That is a static list. So it’s something that doesn’t change. And generally we will be used for things like event attendees, staff lists or internal newsletters, or maybe you were at a trade show, probably not a trade show. Maybe you were at webinar for example, right? And you wanna just talk to those people. So that’s a static list. Doesn’t change. It needs to take an action to send, put someone into that list. You’ve got to manually add them in and manually take them out. Now the next kind of list is an active list. And some people might know this as smart list as it was known previously. But I think active’s a great name, Craig, because it’s telling you that it’s living and it changes based on criteria. Right? So a really good thing. And we’ll talk about this further down in understanding. You might actually have a active list, which are people that are going to hear from you from a HubShots’ email on a weekly basis. So that will be an active list where people could potentially get enrolled and maybe meet some other criteria. Okay?

– Yeah, I think that’s right. So active list and why they used to be called smart lists is because it’s exactly that. You just put criteria. A static list there’s no criteria you manually add or take away from them, but active or smart, they do it themselves. It’s always working in the background based on criteria, filtering criteria.

– I’ll give you a scenario of one that we had this week. They have contacts that have been assigned to salespeople that are no longer part of the organization and they haven’t reassigned them until they get new salespeople on to the team. So when the email goes and because we send it from the sales person, as the contact owner, we didn’t want that to happen. So what we did was not create a static list, but we created an active list and we said, put everybody in this list that have these contact owners that have left. So we created that list. And then essentially what we’re doing is we’re gonna send a separate email to that list from a generic address, not from a contact owner essentially. Does that make sense?

– Yep.

– So that’s one of the ways you would use it in a really simplistic way. So tell me who the people are that belong to all the people that have left and the rest can go to the people that are active and have active salespeople against them.

– All right. Well, that’s quite a very specific case there, but I think what you’re highlighting is it’s just based on criteria, right? You’re filtering and that’s what active lists do. They’re continually updating the lists. That’s why they’re active, based on filter criteria. And the reason I think this is confusing for some people is because they’ve come from another platform. Might have come from MailChimp or another system where they talk about audiences or they talk about lists with a different kind of definition. So then they come across the HubSpot and they don’t understand this idea of active lists. So for example, in MailChimp with audiences, they have segments. I some ways, segments in MailChimp are the same as active lists in HubSpot. It’s just a way of filtering down. Now, I’ll tell you the situation I had because we had a client looking in their portal this week. And what they’ve done is they had a workflow that had criteria and it was about who registered. Actually, it doesn’t matter what it was, it was criteria for doing some behavior.

– Action,

– Some action. And the workflow just had the people based on that criteria come in. And then the first action in the workflow was to add them to a static list. And we were like, why would you do that? And so then we showed them, you don’t need a workflow and then add them to a static list, replace all of that with an active list that has the exactly the same criteria as the workflow entry. And they’re like, “Ah, now I get it.” It’s active list. It just works in the background, it’s not moving or deleting or anything like that. It’s just always being updated. So, listeners, if you’ve been long time HubSpot users, you probably know this since like, wow, that’s really simple. If you’re new to HubSpot though, this is a very powerful feature on HubSpot that you just might have completely missed. So check it out. We’ve got it in the show notes, the Knowledge Base article that talks about active lists versus static lists, check that, use it. I would say 95% of all the lists we have in the portals that we manage are active lists. We hardly ever use static lists. Active lists are…

– Great Craig

– Your foundation…

– Friend It’s your friend.

– There’re your friend.

– All right, I’ll do a HubSpot extra of the week. And this is a shout out to HubSpot support again. And we’ve both had excellent support interactions this week. And I just wanna say thank you because honestly, HubSpot support you make our lives a lot better.

– The reason that I wanna call it out in the show as well is because it continues to be really good. I think every three months or so we jump on and talk about how good and HubSpot support is and it continues to be good. It hasn’t degraded. They’ve grown massively over the last year. Their support has not degraded. It is still exceptional. So well done to whoever’s heading up that team. And then this team and the investment they put behind it, it is a differentiator for sure.

– All right. On to our gotcha of the week, Craig, and this is using the consent to communicate check box gotcha on forms. And we were using this with a client of ours and they added it. I didn’t really check the subscription time. I was like, hi, it’s cool. I try to create the marketing list off it. And then I realized, hang on, there’s something not right here. Now, just so you know, we don’t turn on GDPR for this, but we use this check box in a particular way to get consent on certain things on certain forms that we have on the site. Now, when you do this, you can have multiple check boxes based on obviously the different subscription types that you have. And one of the ones that we had, and we had accidentally chosen, which is the first option was we have a sales email, which is the one to one interaction. And that’s what we had chosen as the communication preference. Now, when I couldn’t figure out what was going on, I was like, hang on. It says that I’ve got a hundred percent opt in here. I’m like, that doesn’t sound right. Anyway, I realized there were two things happening. If you don’t have GDPR turned on all the time, it’s gonna have in that particular field that you have free consent to communicate with someone. So you can’t look at that as being the identifier of have they checked this check box. What we had to do, which I found out from support was there is a subscription types. There were two things we had to do. We had to make sure we had the subscription type correct and then later on this week, we’ve added a second subscription type. One was, do they wanna hear from sales. And the second one was, did they wanna get marketing material from us. So there were two check boxes there. And then what we did was to put the people into the, who had given consent for marketing, we created an active list and we said, look, they had opted in for marketing information and they had filled out that particular form. And that’s the part that we got wrong and then we fixed it this week. But, just be aware that this can take place because you think you’re using those that concentric box. And it might work in a particular way, but it doesn’t if you haven’t got obviously GDPR turned on, so this is the way you would dissect it. And that’s why it’s the gotcha.

– Wow. That is a gotcha. And also that’s a complex little thing. A lot of people don’t really understand subscription types. But one of the wonderful things about HubSpot is when you sign up, you can have different subscription types. You can say, I wanna get the blog posts, or I wanna get marketing information, or I wanna get event information. Or..

– Products.

– Correct.

– Or sales to contact me. So you can have all of these. And then when you get those emails, when send out there’s down the bottom, there’s an unsubscribe link, but there’s also an update preferences link. That preferences takes you to a page where you can choose which of those subscription types you’re opting into. This is a very powerful feature of HubSpot, but of course the flip side of great power is this complexity. And in this case, it caught out your client. And yeah, good screenshot there showing how you actually fix that issue.

– All right. Craig, on our marketing tip of the week using Quora ads. Tell me more.

– All right. I just thought I’d mentioned this very briefly and if people are interested in more information, just reply back lemme know I replied to the show notes and we’ll talk about it further because I think this is very powerful. We’re using Quora ads. We’ve been using it for about a year or so. And for clients, particularly we deal with more technology clients. It’s been very powerful in driving inexpensive clicks and yet engaged traffic. So it’s not like the cheap clicks you get on the Google display network in apps, which are just junk. A hundred percent bounce rate and all of that stuff, the Quora ads are working really well. And you can… I’ve got a screenshot from one of the campaigns for a client. You can see there’s like 14 cent clicks, 17 cent clicks and stuff like that. We’re using this, it’s engaged, driving it through to the site. And it’s also… I think what our main goal to build retargeting audiences. So on Quora ads for people who don’t know, that’s a question and answer site, people ask questions and people answer them. So it’s very much a top of the funnel piece. Although some of the questions could be lower the funnel. What do you think of this vendor and it’s such but it’s normally top of the funnel questions and it drives … The hands of driving people through. We’re putting them through to blog posts as content and in some cases to landing pages, although, because that’s more of a sign up gated content piece, they’re less effective. So it’s really to content which they do engage with and then re-target through on other platforms like LinkedIn and et cetera, Facebook. So just wanted to mention that we’re finding it useful. I think that’s one of these untapped resources. I mean, I’m not sure why more people aren’t using it. Maybe they’re not aware of it. So listeners, if you haven’t tried it, as we always say, test and measure, and we’ve got quite good at it now, and we even have got lookalike audiences and everything. So if you’d like more details on that, maybe hit us up with a comment or reply to our show notes and yeah, we’ll talk about it more.

– And Craig, here’s a good example of understanding your audience and where they’re hanging out. So clearly in that B2B technology space, people are going to Quora to get answers. And I think you’ve found something that’s pretty interesting that people might be missing on a daily basis. So well done. Alright. A quick tip of the week, Craig. Easy link to a text phrase in a URL.

– I’ve been seeing this, I got this on from Lily Ray on Twitter and she reminded me that you can basically use a hash. And then we’ve got the actual symbols that you use to link through to certain bit of texts on a site. So we’ve got one you can just think through them shop for on an episode. So check it out. Only works in Chrome unfortunately, it won’t work in Safari or other browsers but little tip there. Try it.

– And you know what, Craig? I don’t know whether I accidentally came across this with that for some reason, Google are manipulating search results when you’re looking for particular things like this, because I remember clicking a link and I got to page and it was highlighted exactly like you have shown in the show notes.

– Oh, you’re talking about search results snippets, that’s actually different. This isn’t purely a URL modifiers. I know what you’re talking about now. Yeah, Google is basically sucking all the content in and just showing you the specific part of a page that answers your question. That’s supposed to just pointing it to the page in its entirety.

– That’s right. All right. Craig, a resource of the week.

– Oh the power of social proof. You’ve gotta check this out. Clearbit ran an experiment on their signup page. This is a request to demo signup page. And they were like, what kind of proof signals will we give? And they used to just have a bunch of generic client logo’s. What they did is they personalized it. So first of all, I switched out the logos they used based on the type of visitor, because they’ve kind of got reverse proxy identification. If this person came from corporate B2B environment, we’ll show you corporate B2B logos. And then what they added was, Oh, we’ll show you quotes from people that are personalized for you as well. So if you’re an enterprise B2B, they show in the show notes where they’ve actually got a quote from Dharmesh talking about Clearbit and they thought, Oh, we’ll just test this to see if personalizing these social proof signals impacts conversions. And it was astounding, 84% lift in conversions in,

– Wow!

– It’s staggering.

– That’s interesting

– So check out this experiment. I’ve got the link in the show notes and my head was just buzzing with ideas after this. I was like, wow! We should use this on all pages. We shouldn’t put it next to an ebook sign up or anything as much as well As long as they can’t personalize as well as Clearbit’s intelligence can. If we know the kind of traffic that we’re sending to the landing page, very different campaigns, we can probably personalize it more that way. So yeah.

– All right. And on to our quote of the week, Craig. And this is from Dharmesh Shah, who’s the CTO and co founder of HubSpot. And it says, “Many companies have forgotten they sell to actual people. Humans care about the entire experience, not just marketing or sales or service. To really win in the modern age, you must solve for humans.” And well said. And you know what, Craig? I’d even need to say. I didn’t see this screenshot before you’d put, which actually had a Dharmesh quote on it. Now, this is at a whole bunch of bonus links in the show notes. So please subscribe. Go to HubShots.com and subscribe to the show notes. There are lots of good things about maps, iOS 14, e-commerce and Binge. Craig, why are you laughing?

– It’s almost like you were wondering what’s this Binge thing? As if your content..

– Now there’s an untapped avenue for people in B2B, Binge. All right. So there are lots of great resources in the show notes. I encourage you to subscribe. And if you would like to connect us over LinkedIn, please connect with us over LinkedIn. Also tell us you listened to the show so that Craig will accept your request. Else, it won’t be accepted and we would love any feedback or anything you would like to say. And listeners, we love questions that we get about things that you’re trying to solve because as we help you and as we help each other, we all grow better together. Well Craig, until next week.

– Catch you later, Ian.

– Hey there. Thanks for listening to this episode of HubShots. To get the latest show notes, HubSpot tips and resources, sign up at HubShots.com. You can also book time with us to help you grow better with HubSpot.

Episode 216: Deal forecasting, Progressive form fields example, Showing respect

Episode 216: Deal forecasting, Progressive form fields example, Showing respect

Welcome to HubShots Episode 216: Deal forecasting, Progressive form fields example, Showing respect

This episode we discuss:

  • The full show notes are now sent in our weekly notifications email
  • Adding lots of bonus links each episode
  • An example of using Progressive Form Fields in HubSpot forms
  • Deal forecasting reports
  • A gotcha to avoid in CTA links
  • Showing respect for people
  • Recording your name on LinkedIn
  • Our App of the week

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/216-deal-forecasting-progressive-form-fields-example-showing-respect

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Recorded: Thursday 20 August 2020 | Published: Friday 28 August 2020

Shot 1: Growth Thought of the Week

Shout out to Jennifer from Toronto! Thank you for the kind words.

Full Show Notes Emails Are Now in Place

Our notification email now has the complete show notes as part of the email – no more having to click through to the site – less traffic for us, a better experience for you.

If you want to receive the full show notes, simply fill out any of the forms on the HubShots site.

More Bonus Links Each Episode

Another reason to get the show notes, we are adding a lot more bonus links in the show notes now. More than we have time to chat about in the show. But useful for keeping up to date with industry resources and what’s been happening in marketing during the week.

I (Craig) read a ton of interesting articles each week and will be using the show notes to share them with you. See Shot 11 later in the show notes.

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Progressive Form Fields

Progressive forms allow you to request further details from contacts each time they fill in a few fields in a form. We covered this back in episode 194, but worth reviewing again with an example.

An alternative to having one huge form with lots of fields.

For an example of progressive form fields in action try filling out the notification form on the HubShots site – you will end up being asked to fill in a total of 18 fields – you have no privacy!

Here’s the initial thank you page:

hubshots notify 1

Click that button and the cycle begins! You’ll be taken to a form with the first progressive fields showing:

hubshots notify 2

Fill that out and submit and the process starts over – with a request to fill in more fields.

Have fun!

Here’s what the form looks like in HubSpot:

hubshots progressive fields

Experience the joy of progressive form fields here.

(Note: not to be confused with Dependent form fields – which you can consider to be logical or conditional fields.)

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Deal Forecasting Report

Deal Forecasting – this is a useful report to understand what you have in the pipeline over the coming months and where you need to focus.  We have been asked this a few times lately by sales managers on how to see this information.

You can find this on the Sales Team Productivity > Deals Dashboard.  Note: you must have Sales Professional or higher.

Sales Team Productivity   HubSpot

Shot 4: Consumer Insights of the Week

How to stay on top of market trends in a dynamic environment

Using Google Trends in a dynamic environment

In this dynamic environment, people’s needs are changing constantly. To keep up with shifting behaviors, consider Google Trends, a free tool that provides access to actual search requests across Google Search, YouTube, Shopping, and Images. By entering a keyword or a topic, you can explore what the world is searching for in near real time.

To help you stay on top of these shifts, the Google News Lab is curating global trends related to the pandemic with an option to dive more deeply into any of 24 local markets.

Shot 5: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

Update your CTA links when you move from Staging to Live

If you use External links in your CTAs that actually refers to HubSpot pages on Staging, they won’t be automatically updated when pushing from Staging to Live.

The link should redirect anyway, but always better to update the links so no redirects are required.

Ideally use the HubSpot page option (as opposed to External link):

hubshots cta 2

Here’s how it looks in the CTA settings:

hubshots cta 1

Shot 6: Marketing Tip of the Week

Showing Respect

One simple way to show respect is to do your best to pronounce people’s names correctly.

A simple example in the news at the moment: Kamala Harris

Her name is pronounced kama-la.

Think ‘karma’ plus ‘lah’ or ‘comma’ plus ‘la’

Record your name on LinkedIn

Did you know you can now record your name on LinkedIn so people can listen to how you pronounce your name? Try it out on Ian’s profile.

Ian Jacob   LinkedIn

Shot 7: Insight of the Week

G2 places HubSpot at the very top right of their Marketing Automation grid. Surprisingly they are closely followed by ActiveCampaign. Kinda weird to see MailChimp in there as well. Shows that what people consider as ‘marketing automation’ is quite broad. But also shows that it is based on user satisfaction combined with market presence – the importance of marketing!

Best Marketing Automation Software in 2020   G2

Shot 8: App of the Week

Readdle Documents on iOS

I’m using this app to listen to audio files (that aren’t available via podcast feeds).

Really useful because it allows you to play files at 1.5x and above speeds. Previously I was saving to Dropbox to listen to audio files, but there are no speed options there.

Let us know if there is a recommended Android app to use.

Shot 9: Resource of the Week

SEO: How HubSpot improved Site Speed

Hat tip to Martin for alerting me to this one: HubSpot’s analysis of items they fixed to improve their site page speed. Deferring scripts and images and removing CSS and animations were key.

Shot 10: Quote of the Week

“Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.” —Pablo Picasso”

― Timothy Ferriss, Tools of Titans: The Tactics, Routines, and Habits of Billionaires, Icons, and World-Class Performers

Shot 11: Bonus Links of the Week

SEO: B2B Keyword Research

Conversion XL has an in-depth process for planning out keyword buckets for B2B companies. Worth a read.

SEO: How many sites pass Core Web Vitals?

Analysis by Screaming Frog highlighted that only 13% of the sites they tested passed the Core Web Vitals benchmarks. Note: only 22,000 URLs were tested, but they were from top performing sites based on keyword searches. Takeaway: there’s opportunity to improve for lots of sites.

SEO: Internal Linking Refresher

Monster post by Kevin Indig covering internal linking basics, then advanced planning. Dispels a lot of the old practices that are no longer relevant and then discusses scenarios including large sites and ecommerce.

SEO: Shopify Speed Optimisation

A ton of tips for improving the speed of your Shopify site.

Content Marketing: Everybody Wants Thought Leadership

Wonderful post by Kate Parrot at Animalz discussing what real thought leadership is and five main sources. Lots of examples, plus whether your company should do it – hint: are you prepared to put in the effort to produce something you’re proud of?

Sales: Enterprise Go-to-Market Playbook: Growth+Sales

Insightful post from Andreeson Horowitz on the Growth+Sales playbook for Enterprise sales. The move from industry analysts to end users being the decision makers. It’s a consumer mindset approach – the best product that gains adoption wins.

Shot 12: Follow Us on the Socials

Connect with HubShots here: HubShots YouTube channel – HubShots Spotify channel – HubShots Facebook group – HubShots Twitter – HubShots Instagram – HubShots LinkedIn

Connect with Ian Jacob on LinkedIn and Craig Bailey on LinkedIn

HubShots is produced by Christopher Mottram from Podcastily.

Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

Episode 216: Deal forecasting, Progressive form fields example, Showing respect

Full Transcript of HubShots Episode 216

– Hi, everyone. Welcome to HubShots, episode 216. In this episode, we talk about deal forecasting, progressive form fields, or progressive profiling and showing respect. You’re listening to Asia Pacific’s number one, HubSpot-focused podcast, where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks and strategies for growing your sales, marketing, and service results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. How are you Craig?

– I’m well Ian. Ready for take two of the show.

– That’s right. Now listeners, we wanted to say thank you to those who’ve connected with us, and I’ve got a shout out for Jen from Toronto, Canada. Hi Jen, thanks for connecting with us and thank you for the kind words. And we do hope all our listeners get a lot out of this show. So keep connecting with us and giving us feedback. That’d be fantastic. Now, Craig, what have you got that’s exciting for us.

– Remember last episode, I asked if people were interested in full show notes, thanks to the people that replied and said, yes, they’d like that. So now we have that in place. So if you go to the HubSpot site and sign up anywhere, any of those forms that say, be notified about upcoming or future episodes, it means each week they get sent out on Friday mornings, Australian time. You will get the full show notes complete with all the links, all the screenshots, everything in email. So you don’t even have to come to the site rather than before where you just got that summary and had to click through. So I hope you enjoy that. I’m actually enjoying that with a lot of newsletters I get. The full content, I just like reading it in my email client, not having to click through and load pages and all that kind of thing. And the second part of this is because we’re going to, I guess, be in more inboxes. We’re trying to expand out the show notes to include a whole lot of bonus links. I read a lot of blog posts and articles during the week, and I thought I’d just start sharing a few of the more interesting ones. So in shot 11 of the show, I’ve started to put in some of those links. We might have time to talk about them in the show, but if you get the show notes, they’ll all be in there. And so you can click through and stay up to date. And our goal is to build that out to be basically a resource on its own each week.

– Now listeners onto our HubSpot marketing feature of the week. And this has to do with progressive form fields or progressive profiling, as we know it. And this is the ability to request further details, each time someone fills out a form. And we talked about this back in episode 194, as an example, to having a form with lots of form fields in it. Now, as example, you can go to hubshots.com and you can fill out the notification form on the site. We have 18 progressive form fields in there. So if you think, oh, I’ll just keep clicking next, next. And Craig has done a great job where he says, oh, if you’ve got another 10 seconds, do you wanna give us more information? And you keep getting the thank you page with the next form filled. And so Craig has basically labeled this no privacy because we’ve tried to collect as much data as we can. So think about it in your business, are you using this feature to understand more about the people you’re dealing with? Is there a question that you can ask that will help you get a better understanding to help the person on their journey?

– Yeah, so that’s right. So if you wanna experience the joy of never ending fields being requested, like I said, if you wanna sign up for the show notes, any of those notification forms, they’ll take you to a thank you page, which then puts you in this loop. It’d be interesting to see how many people just play the game and go through and fill out all the form fields, and maybe I’ll keep adding. If people start filling it out, I’m just gonna keep adding crazy fields, just to keep putting them in a circle. Actually, what should we add? I’ll put in a little Easter egg there for people. So just keep clicking that submit button, filling it out and see if you get to the end.

– All right Craig, onto our HubSpot sales feature of the week, and this is a deal forecasting report. And why I wanna highlight this is we’ve had requests from a lot of sales managers recently who’ve asked, hey, how do I tell what’s coming up? And so there is a report which is not readily apparent that actually has deal forecasting. And we’ll show you heading out for the rest of the year, what deals there are, potentially closing in that month. So it gives you a good idea, and this is a sales professional enterprise feature. And you need to go to the sales analytics dashboard or the sales team productivity, sorry. And it’s the deals dashboard. And you need to select forecast amount, which is not the first thing you see. And then you will be able to see that. Now below this graph, there is also data which actually shows you by sales person, what is forecast and a few other numbers. So I’d encourage you to have a look at it if you actually haven’t gone and explored this in your portal. All right Craig, onto our consumer insight of the week. I wanted to highlight this because I thought this is a great resource. And it’s from Google. I think it’s with Google and it’s about consumer insights and how to use Google Trends. And the whole thing was, as behaviors shift and the way people are shopping, interacting with images, YouTube, searching, how do you actually stay on top of what’s going on? So they’ve linked off to Google Trends and they’ve even built specific things like Google News Lab and they’ve even built specific things like Google trends related to the pandemic where you can drill down by market. And they’ve done this for 24 local markets. If you check the link for this great bit of content, at the bottom, there’s a download of a PDF. And I downloaded it and I was looking through it. It was really interesting. And it’s called “Navigating the Road Ahead: A Guide to Help Businesses Adapt the Digital Marketing Strategies and Prepare for What’s Next.” It’s quite in depth. It’s 38 pages. You don’t have to opt in, but I would encourage you to go and actually download that and have a look and see what takeaways you can get. They’ve done it really well. And we spoke about this in the last episode of a really great landing page that Google had built that helps you understand how people are interacting in their homes, in their businesses, in the DIY projects that they’re doing. And here’s another great example of a great tool that you can use to gain more insight. Now, Craig tell us the gotcha of the week.

– All right, quite an interesting gotcha that we only discovered before I started recording the show, cause we had actually put this incorrectly in place on the HubSpots site, and it relates to CTA links. And you might build a CTA button in HubSpot, but let’s say you’re on staging. And so when you’re testing, you’ve built the CTA link and appointed to a page on staging. Now, if you’ve linked it to a HubSpot page, you know when you choose the URL, you’re gonna drop down. You can say, oh, I’m gonna choose an external website URL or a HubSpot page or meeting the concern. There’s always assumptions in CTAs. If you choose external website URL, which you might be tempted to do if you’re in staging, because maybe you’re just starting to build it or you actually haven’t got it in place yet. The problem is when you move from staging to live, that staging link stays in the CTA. It doesn’t automatically update it to the live link for the page you’re linking through to. So we had that little gotcha. And so we actually had one of the, in fact that cycle, that never ending cycle of progressive form fields in the page. The thank you page was going to a staging link cause we’d never updated it. Now, the staging links will redirect to the live link. So it should all be fine. But what we found is in that in an incognito window, that redirect staging link was marked as suspicious by Google. It was getting blocked. So two solutions to this. One is, well, update the links after you go live, check all your links. But two, instead of using external website URL, you actually use HubSpot page or blog posts. HubSpot takes care of that for you. So a little gotcha there. I’ve got some screenshots in there that highlight what I’m talking about and then how it appears in the CTA settings as well.

– Now Craig, onto our marketing tip of the week and it’s all about showing respect.

– Isn’t it weird that we have to talk about this as a tip? To improve your marketing or improve your relationships? But the reason this came out is because Kamala Harris, as you know would be in the news a lot, Biden’s vice presidential nominee on the democratic side. And many people are mispronouncing her name. And so I was listening to a podcast and I was saying, that’s actually really disrespectful, especially if you do it deliberately. So then I was like, well, I actually don’t know how to pronounce her name. What is it? Cause I know I won’t say it now. Of course, then I’ll get into the habit of saying it, but it’s actually Kamala. So you think of karma, Good Karma, Kamala, Kamala Harris, Kamala Harris. So why am I mentioning this? Well, what the podcast exposed was all of these other sides and perhaps opponents of her, deliberately mispronouncing her name. And just the disrespect that shows. And I just felt it was timely to mention that as being not on. Show respect for people by trying to actually pronounce their name correctly. Now, just to be clear, I’m not talking about accents. So I’ll give you an example. For example, Americans often pronounce my name Greg, and then my name is Craig, but they’ll pronounce it Greg, that’s an accent. That’s not a mispronunciation. That’s just an accent. And when I was living in Minneapolis for the, well, many years ago. They’re all, hey Greg. Greg, how are you doing? And that’s fine. That’s an accent. In fact, I’ve got a Scottish friend who would go, Greg, hey Greg. That’s not mispronunciation, that’s just an accent. So I’m not talking about accents. I’m talking about when people deliberately mispronounce. So I just wanted to put that in there. Now you then highlighted to me that LinkedIn is almost addressing this feature because we are now faced with, well, how do you pronounce the name? Well, what have we got on LinkedIn now, Ian.

– Well now you can actually record your name Craig, on LinkedIn, so people can listen to how you pronounce your name. But looks like a little speaker beside your name on LinkedIn. And you can go and do that on the mobile app, which is where I did it. And it’ll put it in there as like a voice memo that people can play and listen to you saying your name.

– There you go, check it put on Ian’s profile.

– Alright, onto our insight of the week Craig. And I wanted to highlight this. And I thought this is interesting. Shout out to Ryan Benichi, G2. This is in response to, I was looking at different marketing automation software as one of our clients that we were talking to was thinking about, well, what do we do? Should we be on a Salesforce product? Should we be thinking of ActiveCampaign, MailChimp? Where does it all fit? So I often go to sites like G2 to figure out, how is everyone placed in the marketplace? Now Gardner has similar quadrants, probably more for enterprise.

– And Forester and all the big EM.

– And what was interesting about this one, and you can see, we’ll probably tweet about this, so we’ll put it on Instagram. One thing you’ll notice, marketing automation is quite broad and it shows based on satisfaction and market presence. And you’ll see, it’s a crowded market space. And we knew this was happening. But just even if you think, well, things like MailChimp for example, or ActiveCampaign, you kind of go, how is that anywhere near what HubSpot has in terms of features. But it’s in there. And so what we wanna highlight is that understanding, looking at this quadrant and understanding where people are, also requires understanding of the features in the product and how they relate to one another. Just by looking and going, oh yeah, look they’re at the top doesn’t mean that they are at the top. They could be at the top for a particular reason, but you need to understand the whole story.

– I think that’s right. Because the G2 grid here is, as you said, market presence, i.e. marketing. Some folks could do marketing and HubSpot of course is a master at it, but then it’s satisfaction. So it’s not depth of functionality. You’re not seeing Marketo here. You’re not seeing some of the big players. You’re not seeing Adobe, some of their marketing cloud pieces. You’re not seeing that here. You’re not seeing MailChimp, who never striked me as marketing automation. I guess you can do a few follow up workflows. To be fair, they do call that automation within the product. But marketing automation means many things to many different people. And so an example here about consumer satisfaction being a big part of this, but as, and not that we will have time in the show, one of the bonus links that I highlight is Andreessen Horowitz talking about the new enterprise sales playbook and really how it’s a consumer-user experience playbook these days. I think HubSpot have been saying this well, that powerfully simple, or what was it deeply powerful? What was that catch phrase where we’re always–

– It’s deeply powerful.

– Deeply powerful, that’s right. And, deeplypowerful.com. Just at least try and go through in there. But it’s right. It’s making it deeply powerful, but also simple to use as consumers expect. They want the iPhone experience on enterprise software. That’s why HubSpot is a market leader. That’s probably why ActiveCampaign is there because you and I have both used it. And it is very good to use. MailChimp of course, usable as well.

– What’s interesting Craig in this quadrant, you will see in the first quadrant, there is a Adobe, there is Oracle.

– Oh, you’re right, they are. Way down on the satisfaction–

– Way down on the satisfaction. So you think to yourself, looking at this, like they’re probably very feature-rich. They have a lot more enterprise features. But look at the satisfaction of people’s ability to use it, is really interesting. And I know for a fact, like even today I was looking at Salesforce marketing cloud with a partner of ours and you know what, it was really confusing. So it’s just on a whole another level. I guess this is the next, what do I describe it as?

– It is really around satisfaction, isn’t it? It’s sure you want functionality, but it doesn’t matter if you’ve got all the functionality in the world if the users hate using it.

– Correct, or you can’t use it. Which was the scenario of one of our partner’s customers, where they had the system and they gave it to another agency to implement because they had no idea what was going on. And I was like, oh, I can see your problem here. And I think they just felt that they had lost control. They didn’t know what was going on. That was the bottom line. How do I bring it all and how do I make sense of all of this stuff without feeling overwhelmed and use the tools that I have. That was really the crux of the story. All right Craig, onto the app of the week. Tell me more about Readdle Documents.

– Is it Readdle or Readdle? I don’t know how to pronounce it. They need a LinkedIn little icon where they can say their name. It’s kind of like last episode, everybody said, oh, it’s Landingi, instead of Landingi–

– That’s right.

– We need something for, I dunno, is it Readdle or Readdle? Anyway, only on iOS, it’s only on iPhone, sorry folks. But this app, I use it to listen to audio files. Let’s say you get an audio file, not as part of a podcast feed. Cause of course we use Outcasts and other podcast players for that. Let’s say you get an audio file. For example, a friend of the show, Justin Thing has sent us a preview of his new podcast, which sounds amazing by the way. In order to listen to it, how would you listen to it? Cause I would normally put it in Dropbox and then just play it from Dropbox on my phone. But how would you listen to that on your phone?

– Well, he shared it on WhatsApp, so I just listened to it on WhatsApp. I didn’t actually go anywhere else.

– Oh, okay. I didn’t even think to do that. But you can’t speed it up. Cause to listen to my podcast at 1.5, 1.75. Well with Readdle or Readdle Documents, you can. You can get all your files in there and you can just play it. It’ll remember where you got up to, so it doesn’t restart over. So it’s a really nice audio player experience. Maybe there’s better ones and maybe I’m using square peg in a round hole to achieve this here with this app. But in case other people are facing that challenge, I recommend this app. And listeners let us know, is there a recommended Android app to use as well so that we can share that on the show.

– You know what’s funny Craig?

– I don’t know.

– I’ve heard of Readdle Documents. I just never thought I would be listening to some audio in there. Like you have just done at a variable speed. So it’s really interesting. And I think I’m gonna go give it a try after this and see what it can do.

– I’ll just tell you it’s free. Couldn’t believe it.

– Alright, resource of the week, Craig.

– Heads up to Martin for letting us do this. We’ve been going backwards and forwards about site speed and followups. Well, he sent through this link on how HubSpot improved their side speed. So check that out. They’ve basically deferring scripts and images and also removing a few things like CSS that was unnecessary and animations, just made their site speed improve dramatically, check the full post.

– All right Craig, onto our quote of the week. And this is from, Tim Ferris’ “Tool of Titans” book. “The Tactics, Routines and Habits of Billionaires Icons and World-Class Performers” And it says, learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist. And that’s from Pablo Picasso.

– How are you gonna apply that into your life, Ian?

– Well in a marketing and sales perspective, I thought well, I need to learn the rules like a pro then I can break it all Craig.

– And well that’s true. And I think by break you mean mix and match in a way, it’s almost combine things from different fields. You’ve gotta learn them all first, before you can proficiently mix.

– It was like an analogy last week, Craig, about karate and TaeKwonDo and all sorts of things. Anyway, I digress. Listeners, there are a lot of bonus links in the show. So please go to hubshots.com and subscribe for the show notes, which you can now get the entire show notes in your inbox every week. And again, please connect with us on LinkedIn, Craig and myself. Please leave us a note that you listened to the show. And as always, the offer is open. If you need help with anything or you’re feeling stuck, you need feedback on a podcast episode, please hit us up and we’ll be glad to help you guys no matter where you are. And again, thanks for listening. And until next episode, Craig.

– Catch you later Ian. Hey there, thanks for listening to this episode of HubShots. To get the latest show notes, HubSpot tips and marketing resources, sign up at hubshots.com. You can also book time with us to help you grow better with HubSpot.

– [Narrator] Go the extra.


HubShots Episode 215: HubSpot Email A/B testing, Deal Workflow tip, Google Trends report

Welcome to HubShots Episode 215: HubSpot Email A/B testing, Deal Workflow tip, Google Trends report

This episode we discuss the beautiful Google Trend analysis report, HubSpot A/B email testing, plus a tip for Deal pipeline automation.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/215-hubspot-email-ab-testing-deal-workflow-tip-google-trends-report

Welcome to HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Recorded: Thursday 13 August 2020 | Published: Friday 21 August 2020

Shot 1: Growth Thought of the Week

Beyond Business Podcast with Charles McKay from Synx

We only just discovered Charles McKay’s podcast this week – it is the Beyond Business podcast, where he interviews industry leaders.

Shoutout to Varun Bhandarkar who alerted us to this (and kindly gave us a shoutout).

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

A/B Testing Options with HubSpot Campaign Emails

You can set an email to A/B test right away (ie not wait the recommended 4 hours for a winner)

Simply set this in the A/B settings of the email by dragging the A/B distribution slider:

hubspot email default a b settings 1

So it looks like this:

hubspot email default a b settings 2

This way your email is sent right away, and you can analyse the results later.

Ideal for when you don’t want to delay sending emails to contacts.

Example scenario: you are running late getting the monthly newsletter prepared, and only get it finished at the last minute. You do want to A/B test, but you don’t want to delay the send.

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Using Workflows to Trigger based on Deal Stage Changes

Useful for setting custom deal properties when the deal stage changes.

Example: part of your deal pipeline is to sign someone up for a Trial. It makes sense for this to be a Deal Stage.

But how do you report on it later eg list the Deals that made it to Trial that were Lost.

Simple way would be to create a deal property called: Trial Start Date and set it via a workflow:

hubspot sales deals automation workflow

That way you can easily filter deals later based on Closed Lost/Won and the Trial Start Date being known.

Shot 4: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

Attribution reports being removed – causing unnecessary concern

An example of bad notifications – we’ve had a number of clients forward this email on to us, asking (with concern) what is going on and whether it is going to break anything.

“…deleted as part of an upcoming product update…” is such a bad message to send.

hubspot atribution reports deletion 2

Would have been much better to provide guidance on how to re-build, and work towards a changeover well in the future (similar to how they did with some workflow updates a year or two ago).

BTW we’ll be discussing the new Attribution report builder next week.

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

Google Search Results had a Hiccup

There was a glitch on Google on Tuesday/Wednesday – it turned out to be a bug.

John Mueller (Google) calmed us down.

Another example of (understandable) panic from clients when they don’t know what is happening.

Shot 6: Insight of the Week

Beautiful Trend Reports

This page from Google is a wonderful example of presenting trends.

think with google

Shot 7: Outreach Fail of the Week

Guest Posing

Sometimes we wonder why people bother – but perhaps the terribleness of it actually works – kind of like a lame dad joke…


  • The typo (lol)
  • The lack of personalisation
  • The ‘Hope you’re well’ intro
  • No mention of the offering or benefits
  • A strange request for editorial guidelines
  • Lack of signoff

guest posing lol

Shot 8: Resource of the Week

Advanced SEO Strategies

Brian Dean has done it again with 17 Advanced SEO Strategies.

Shot 9: Quote of the Week

“Selling to the right person is more important than all the sales methods, copywriting techniques, and negotiation tactics in the world. Because the wrong person doesn’t have the money. Or the wrong person doesn’t care. The wrong person won’t be persuaded by anything.”

― Perry Marshall, 80/20 Sales and Marketing: The Definitive Guide to Working Less and Making More

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week

How to pronounce ‘landingi’

Turns out I have been saying it wrong all these years. Here’s how to say it.

Shot 11: Follow Us on the Socials

Connect with HubShots here: HubShots YouTube channel – HubShots Spotify channel – HubShots Facebook group – HubShots Twitter – HubShots Instagram – HubShots LinkedIn

Connect with Ian Jacob on LinkedIn and Craig Bailey on LinkedIn

HubShots is produced by Christopher Mottram from Podcastily.

Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

HubShots Episode 215: HubSpot Email A/B testing, Deal Workflow tip, Google Trends report

Full Transcript of HubShots Episode 215

– Hi, everyone. Welcome to HubShots Episode 215. In this episode, we discuss the beautiful Google trend analysis report, HubSpot A/B testing, plus a tip for deal pipeline or automation. You’re listening to Asia Pacific’s number one HubSpot focus podcast, where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks, strategies and features for growing your sales, marketing and service results. My name is Ian Jacob, from Search and Be Found, and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. How are you Craig?

– I’m really well. And how did I not know that Charles McKay has a podcast?

– I know, you know what? I must’ve forgotten to tell you because I am pretty sure we had like one or two episodes out. I stumbled upon it and I had a listen at that time. Right now I think well, he’s up to around 15 or something there.

– Oh, by the way, shout out to Varun.

– Yes.

– He mentioned to us and Charles as two of his favorite podcasts. Thanks from him, but yeah and that’s how I found out about Charles. Charles McKay of course from Sinks down in Melbourne. A friend of the show and a big supporter and a wonderful podcaster. I’ve only listened to one episode now. His latest one chatting about video.

– Yes.

– Well worth listen. Highly recommended.

– All right. Onto our HubSpot marketing feature of the week Craig. A/B testing options on HubSpot campaign emails.

– All right, so I’ll just set this up. I think most listeners would know that you can do A/B testing in HubSpot on the emails. It’s on the left hand side, a little A/B tab. You press that and you can create A/B version, or variation of your email. That’s all good. However, some listeners may not be aware, that you can set it to a 50/50 to go straightaway, because normally by default, there’s a four hour gap.

– Of course.

– So you put your A/B versions and then you send it out. It sends out 25% on an A and a B. Waits four hours and then whichever wins, it sends the remaining 50%. Now that can be problematic for some clients. In fact, if you’re a busy company or an agency often it’s the last minute. You’re getting your newsletter ready. You do wanna test A/B testing, but if you go, “Oh, we can’t wait four hours for it to win. Oh, we’ll do that next time.” And of course, next time you do it the next time. Anyway, you can do it now because you may not realize, you can just move that little slider along. We’ve got two screenshots in the show notes and you just move it alongside 50/50 on the very first scene. No waiting time, no nothing. Just do the 50/50 test right when you send it. And then of course you analyze afterwards. It’s not gonna pick a winner and optimize in that run, but at least you get to test it. So highly recommended and really you should be A/B testing just about every email campaign that you send. There’s no real excuse not to, even if it’s just something minor like testing the subject line. Just do it on every email. A/B test the subject line. Send that email out, analyze and you’re effectively testing and measuring. As we like to say, A/M.

– Now Craig. The metric we’re going after here is, opens by delivery, right? Or you can choose what the winning metric is, when it comes to this test, am I right?

– Well, in fact, you don’t really care. You don’t care which one wins necessarily. ‘Cause it’s not gonna prompt any further action. It’s really just analysis for you to look. So you might change the subject line to see open rate, but then you might’ve been testing something else internally to see the click through rate.

– I’m really asking from the perspective of, in their terms of the A/B distribution. Is the test like in your screenshot, you did a test on 25% A and 25% B and then the remaining 50% is the winning version.

– Oh, okay, sorry. I should explain. The first screenshot is the default.

– Yes.

– And I’m saying that’s the default, which normally puts people off, ’cause that waits four hours to choose a winner.

– Correct?

– If you look at the screenshot, where I’ve pushed-

– Pushed it all out.

– Slide of ride along.

– Yeah.

– That’s what I’m saying, go for. Go for them, because then there’s no waiting time. There’s no winner in a sense to choose from. It’s really just for posts and analysis.

– That’s a very good point. So listeners, if you do the A/B test, please let us know because to be honest, Craig, I have looked in so many accounts and I can honestly say, I think in my entire time I could put and count on one hand, the number of accounts that actually used email A/B testing. All right, our HubSpot sales feature of the week. And it’s using workflows to trigger based on deal stage changes. And listeners this might be useful for you to understand, because maybe Craig will explain to you the scenario and then I’ll tell you how we solve the problem.

– Yeah, so we had a client this week, who their sales process, they’ve got a number of sales pipelines actually, but in one particular pipeline for a new client, not a renewing client, but a new client upon the sales process, is to chat with them then have a demo, then a trial and then they’re looking to convert them from a trial into a customer. What they’re grappling with is how to accurately report, on how many trials turn into winning clients. And so what they’ve been tempted to do and have actually started, is in their main deal, if someone wants a trial, they create a second deal as zero dollar deal for the trial, because then they can check how many deals were won or lost. So it’s a reporting function. They actually asked me, “Is this best practice? How would you do it?” And I was thinking it through, because what you’ve got to do is, you’ve actually got to wire up internal processes with reporting requirements. Quite often internal processes just go down a path and then later you wanna report on it and you can’t. I was much keener to keep the one deal and then have the trial as a deal stage, which didn’t go off to another deal. However, that meant later, if they wanted to report on it, they wanted to say, “Well, how trials did actually close.” Because it’s hard to do. So then what we did as well, we’ll do a custom property on the deal. A deal property called, trial start date. And then when it hits the trial stage, we’ll just create a workflow that sets that date. And so in the show notes, we’ve got a screenshot where you can create workflows. It’s on the automation tab on deals. In settings by the way. You might think “How do I go into marketing workflows?” or “Where do you set deal workflows?” Get it from settings. So, on settings, you can create a workflow. And that way it’s basically setting a property, which you can then filter on lightly. You can filter on if the trial start date is known and then how many deals were closed, lost, et cetera. And of course think about that for any of your deal stage options you can go along. You can set any kind of custom property that you want. You can increment numbers, all kinds of things. So just a little tip there, using workflows to trigger deals, on deal stage changes.

– So listeners, what Craig has told you is a really good solution, to a problem that they had. And what he is saying is that, when it gets into that deal stage, he was setting the date. Am I right, Craig? You were setting a date property that the trial started and then so obviously that property contains a value, if they never got to that stage, that will not have a value in there.

– That’s right and if they jumped stages, because not every stage is required. So if they never even went to a trial, they went straight to a purchase, then that wouldn’t have been set. So then again, you can report on that. How many of our deals… So here’s another one. How many of our deals that winded up being won, required a trial in order to close? All those kinds of things you can start doing.

– All right, Craig. I have the gotcha of the week. And this is about attribution reports being removed causing unnecessary concern. Now listeners, if you have attribution reports, actually in you’ve actually created them in your system, you would’ve gotten this email. I don’t have any in mind, Craig at the minute, that’s why I didn’t get it.

– Oh, you didn’t get this. Did you not have any clients?

– Actually, I haven’t looked. I haven’t looked. So this might be-

– Oh, you’ll know.

– I will know for sure.

– Because I had a half of our clients in a panic forwarding on this email that they’d got from HubSpot and I’ll tell you why in a second when I read out part of the email, saying, “Oh, what’s going on, what do I need to do?” Caused for concern. So the reason this is the gotcha the week, is that one of the product team at HubSpot, who by the way is very good. I’ve blanked his name out from this email. but just let me read the part of it that says, “Hi, I’m so and so from the HubSpot product team. I’m reaching out because you have a contact attribution report that will be deleted as part of an upcoming product update on September 10.” Right? So imagine you’re a client. One of our clients who are using HubSpot and you get this email. “We’re deleting some of your HubSpot, from an upcoming product.” And it’s attribution, like it sounds possibly important. Half the people don’t know what attribution reporting is anyway.

– Correct.

– Second, it always concerned the emails. It’s forwarded on from people, “Oh, what does this mean? Can we chat about this?” I mean, “Oh, hang on. No, no. It’s okay. It’s just that they’re improving the attribution reporting tool, but they’re just going to delete out these old reports.”

– And they’re basically saying they’ve gotta recreate it in the new report builder, right?

– Yeah and the outcome of this is not a problem. It’s not dire. It’s easy to replicate. But when you get this email, you kind of panic.

– You worry .

– And so this is an example Yeah this is an example of someone who thought they were very helpfully just sending out an update that’s coming and probably will be shocked to learn, all these clients got totally panicked about it and well, of course you know, calling me. So anyway-

– I’m Sure HubSpot support were inundated today.

– I’m sure, I’d love to know. I bet what we’ll get in the next day or two is a follow up email from this. “Oh, by the way, just letting you know we’ve decided, not to delete the report and we’ll, you know.” ‘Cause this happened, is it a year or so ago, with some workflow. I can’t remember the exact thing.

– Correct, yes.

– And then it’d be a couple later they say, “Oh, no, no, no, it’s okay we’re not gonna…” So, like even the best sometimes cause unnecessary concern. By the way speaking of attribution reports, we’ll cover that next week. In fact, we will talk about the new attribution report builder. We’ll cover that on next week’s show.

– After the old one’s been deleted Craig.

– All right Craig, our top marketing tip of the week. And we’re talking about Google search results had a hiccup and this is, listeners it was on Tuesday and Wednesday. This week which is, we’re on the 13th of August today. It turned out to be a bug.

– Oh my goodness did you see some of these results?

– You did mention it to me and I haven’t had a look into the results Craig. Tell me.

– Our SEO chat on Twitter on that was going nuts. And then I was looking at some of the results for our clients. When I would begin the prize clients, there’s this really competitive term that we’re trying to improve their ranking for? We’ve started on it probably about six months ago.

– Yeah.

– A bit of an SEO piece. And we’ve got them up onto page three now. So they’re kind of around 22, 23 average ranking, which of course is useless. You’ve got to get them up to… But it’s very competitive. They’ve come from, by the way, they’ve come from like nowhere up to… So getting them on to page three, is actually improvement. Anyway, on Tuesday I just happened to see this and I was like, “Bang. Oh they’re number one.” And I was like, ” What? What is going on?” So and then I was looking at the other results on page one for this term, very competitive enterprise term. And all their main competitors completely gone. I was like, “Something is wrong here. This won’t last.” Onto SEO Twitter. Yeah, people up in arms, “What’s going on?” And also page one, there was a lot of really junk stuff. Not that our client stuff is junk, but some of the other stuff that was on there as well was quite bad. And in fact, our client had the first two positions. They had position one and two. So the client was jumping for joy and I was like, “Hang on.”

– So my question was, did they make more sales that day Craig?

– They did get some leads actually, yes.

– That’s fantastic.

– And by the way it shows you… Yeah, exactly. It shows you the power of a number one ranking, even though the page was, first half of the page was covered in ADS. A nice spike in traffic. So yeah, for a couple of hours, but yeah, it all turned out to be a bug. We’re all back and of course then today the back on their page.

– Back to where it was before.

– But you know what? They’ve just experienced the power of being on page one.

– This is it.

– All right now, we’re gonna talk about our insight of the week, Craig. And this is the beautiful trends report, that I came across on, I think with Google. And it’s a wonderful example of presenting trends. And I think I Likeed it to you to a really nice Apple landing page for a product.

– It is just a wonderful example, Isn’t it? It’s just beautiful, very interactive and informative. I think really useful.

– What was really amazing, the 30 data points that they had used were all Google properties. So, it just made me realize they didn’t have to go somewhere else to get these numbers. They had it on YouTube, they had it on Google search and that’s what they’ve built this report from. And they’ve just done it really well. And they’ve got some really good insights and what they were trying to say is that, how things have changed with people being at home. How time and space matters. How they look after themselves and others, what’s their work and leisure like and their consumption and expenditure. So people now are thinking like, “How do we change what we do?” And one of the really key things that I picked up in there that’s highlighted is that, I think one of the… It was people looking for coffee recipes on YouTube and I’m like really 200% increase, but it just goes to show and how that shift as people look more for DIY and learn about how to do more things. One of the key takeaways was, how people will start to buy less product and buy more materials, as they start to make things. And I thought that was a really key, really good insight into what’s taking place. So listeners, I would encourage you to actually look at this report, because it gives you other data as well. And also think about if you have in your business, or if you’re serving businesses, how can you use this data that is readily available for yourself to change what you’re doing? So maybe you’re selling a particular product, for a particular reason. Maybe your product has another use that you have not thought about, because of the way people are behaving in the marketplace. So just take this, have time to digest it and see what you can get out of it, that you can implement. Now Craig, onto our outreach fail of the week. And we talk a lot about these bogus emails that we get and here’s one about guest posing, right? That’s right. It started off badly. And so I’m wondering actually, if it was intentional in hindsight, but instead of guest posting, they’ve put guest posing and it’s just a part of a screenshot. It’s just the worst outreach email. No personalization, typos.

– Hey, hang on.

– It starts with, “I hope you are well.”

– You know one thing they did think, they thought, oh well they’re sending it to someone in Australia. We should put great.

– And yeah, that’s right. “And I came across your website and found the content really intriguing.” You know the standard. You know they haven’t even checked our website.

– That’s right.

– “I was wondering if you offer any guest posting opportunities. If so, I’d love to grab a copy of your editorial guidelines.” It’s like, well, what do you do? You know nothing about the benefit. It’s just complete, no sign off by the way, no sign off. It’s just ridiculous. And by the way, I blanked out of the person’s name, but I looked him up. He’s a Brisbane based, PR outreach specialist. I was like, “Wow!”

– Are you serious?

– Yeah.

– Oh my goodness. Anyway you know what-

– Guest posing ad. Trying to get to Charleston goes the extra amount what to reply with. What’s gonna be this posing. I was gonna like, “Oh, do you provide any of this kind of guest posing?” Oh my goodness.

– Go on, Craig. I think you should reply with that image.

– Does this work? I mean, who does this work with? Who responds to this type of email? I just don’t get it.

– He’s fishing and I’m pretty sure there is somebody that will respond. You know, why is he doing it? Anyway, the bait was good enough, it got onto this show. So let’s move on to the next one. Okay onto our results for the week and we’ve got some advanced SEO strategies and this is a great post by Brian Dean, who we talk about often. And he’s got 17 advanced SEO strategies. Now listeners, we’re not going to go through this, but we encourage you to actually. When you have time, sit down and go through it, because you can… You know what? Take two things out of that and implement it. I’m sure you’ll be far ahead of your competition. Alright, Craig, onto our quote of the week. And this is from Perry Marshall and he’s written the book “80/20 Sales and Marketing.” The Definitive Guide to working less and making more. Like we all wanna do, right? Anyway, I’ve read this book and I have been a part of his community for, I think almost 10 years now. Listeners, if there’s one book that I tell you to read, this would be it and you’ve read it. I bet you’ve read it as well, haven’t you Craig?

– I have read this, yes.

– Here is a quote. “Selling to the right person is more important, than all the sales methods, copywriting techniques and negotiation tactics in the world. Because the wrong person doesn’t have the money, or the wrong person doesn’t care. The wrong person won’t be persuaded by anything.” Coming back to personas Craig.

– Quality over quantity, right there.

– That’s right. All right, now we’ve got a bonus link, Craig, but how do you pronounce Landingi?

– Well, that’s right, it’s not Landingi. I’ve been saying it wrong all these years.

– That’s how I’ve been saying it, what is it?

– I’ve been saying it Landingi. By the way Landingi, I just thought was because it’s a landing page builder. Landingi, I just thought it was the plural of landing… Anyway, they’ve got a video. It’s Landingi.

– Landingi.

– Yeah and there’s a video where they actually say, here’s how you actually pronounce our name.

– Wow.

– Landingi.

– There you go. It sounds like it shouldn’t be on a dinghy somewhere. Anyway.

– It’s terrible Landingi is much better, right?

– Listeners and thank you again for listening. Please connect with us on LinkedIn. When you do connect with us, please send Craig and myself a note, saying that you listened to the show. If you need help with anything, if you need a HubSpot audit, if you need help deciding whether you should go HubSpot. And that’s happened to us a few times, like people have said they listened to us and they’re not sure whether HubSpot is the right tool. By all means, please set up a session with us and we’re happy to walk you through it and talk you through that.

– Hey, I’ll just make a comment on that. I know we asked people to connect with us on LinkedIn. I’ve been really slacking.

– I thought you have a really good VA Craig, come on.

– No, she does. She takes care of everything, but I’m never on there and I know some people have asked questions and we haven’t got back to it two weeks later. So apologies for that, but the best way to get to me is via email. So if you sign up on HubShots. To just sign up to get the show notes each week, you can reply to that and it comes straight to my inbox. And I know Martin and others who I’ve mentioned in the show. They just send me a note on email and I’m pretty responsive there. So that’s the best way. But if you can’t make it, ping us on LinkedIn, we’ll get around to it eventually, but apologies for the delay there.

– And listeners I really wanna say thank you to Chris Mottram, from Podcastily who produces this show. We very much appreciate your support, Chris. And finally listeners, if you’d like to write and leave us some feedback on Apple podcast, that’d be much appreciated and share it with one friend that you have. Well Craig until next week.

– Catch you later, Ian.

– Hey there, thanks for listening to this episode of HubShots. To get the latest show notes, HubSpot tips and resources, sign up @hubshots.com. You can also book time with us to help you grow better, with HubSpot.

Episode 214 HubSpot for COVID tracking, In-App Notifications, and you have no privacy

Episode 214: HubSpot for COVID tracking, In-App Notifications, and you have no privacy

Welcome to HubShots Episode 214: HubSpot for COVID tracking, In-App Notifications, and you have no privacy

This episode we discuss having no privacy, plus using HubSpot to meet COVID guidelines, plus HubSpot in-app notifications.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/214-hubspot-for-covid-tracking-in-app-notifications-and-you-have-no-privacy

Welcome to HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Recorded: Thursday 06 August 2020 | Published: Friday 14 August 2020

Shot 1: Growth Thought of the Week

Full Show Notes In The Notification Emails?

Would you like to receive the full show notes in the notification email (ie opposed to just the summary)?

If so, let us know – we’re looking to make this available if there’s enough interest.

You Have No Privacy

You should assume you have no privacy.

A simple example: HubSpot records all zoom calls – however, there’s no indication of it being recorded. Craig only discovered this recently on a call with HubSpot and a client. It was a bit of shock afterwards to realise that everything on the call – even before the HubSpot person had joined – was all recorded.

You should probably assume this is the norm in all your interactions.

Assume you have no privacy. Anywhere. Zoom. Email. Slack. HubSpot. Any tool you use.

The recent Congressional Hearing highlights how your most private emails will always be found – examples include Mark Zuckerberg’s emails about Instagram being made public.

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

In Australia businesses like cafe’s, or places that people visit and are present need to keep a track of who has visited.

We have a client that has display homes and they wanted to track visits.  So what they have done is have a sign with a QR code that takes visitors to a landing page.

Mouse Highlight Overlay 4

From this we have created active lists and then used them in reports so we can easily show when people have visited.

Mouse Highlight Overlay 5

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Follow-on from the previous shot.  We use a workflow to send an in-app notifications to sales if the person they are dealing with has come through the display home.

Mouse Highlight Overlay 6

Shot 4: Listener Question of the Week

A question from long time listener and supporter of the show Martin Bredl. He’s the CEO at takeoff pr in Austria. Send us your questions – feel free to record yourself speaking and send us the audio file.

Martin writes:

“Hi Craig, you and Ian are really running the HubSpot Marathon. Awesome how much energy you are investing for all of us followers. For me it is so easy to stay on track with HubSpot: Just listen 20 minutes on public transport to HubShots. “

“I do have this question and I think this is something other HubSpot CMS user also care: How important is Google insight speed? Is this the final device to measure speed? We have tested the 20 top HubSpot partners (Top Tiers). And no one is doing well on Google Insights speed. You and Ian are also not best performing there. Should we ignore Google Insights Speed?”

Google PageSpeed Insights

Google has been providing testing tools for a while, and their PageSpeed Insights tool is a good example of a tool that is gaining wider adoption. You can see below how poorly the HubShots site performs on mobile:

hubshots pagespeed insights 1

Although it is much better on desktop:

hubshots pagespeed insights 3

For comparison, check out how Amazon performs, first on mobile:

hubshots pagespeed insights 2

And then on desktop:

hubshots pagespeed insights 4

Takeaway: use as a guide for what to check and fix, but don’t get too caught up the specific numbers.

Other tools to check include GTmetrix and WebPageTest, plus of course Website Grader. See also episode 203 where we chat about Google’s Lighthouse in Fast or Slow.

Shot 5: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

Difficult to setup Full Post Email Notifications

It’s hard to include the full content of a blog post in a custom email eg like we want to send as a weekly notification to listeners.

Shot 6: Marketing Tip of the Week

PS line in Emails

Your P.S. line at the end of an email is valuable – a reminder to test using it in your next email campaign.

Shot 7: Insight of the Week

Marketing is like Martial Arts

There’s no right or wrong martial art to learn/use.

But there’s a problem if you are a beginner and try to mix a bunch of them all together.

One of our clients has a number of different marketing agencies and consultants involved – and it is becoming inefficient – each company has their own way of planning strategy, campaigns, execution, etc.

Aiming for consensus is a recipe for low outcomes.

Shot 8: App of the Week

3D Book Cover Creator in CSS

This is a handy tool for creating book covers using just CSS:

hubshots cover

Shot 9: Quote of the Week

“First master the fundamentals.” —LARRY BIRD

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week

Microsoft on Work Challenges

Shot 11: Follow Us on the Socials

Connect with HubShots here: HubShots YouTube channel – HubShots Spotify channel – HubShots Facebook group – HubShots Twitter – HubShots Instagram – HubShots LinkedIn

Connect with Ian Jacob on LinkedIn and Craig Bailey on LinkedIn

HubShots is produced by Christopher Mottram from Podcastily.

Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

Episode 214 HubSpot for COVID tracking, In-App Notifications, and you have no privacy

Full Transcript of Episode 214

– Hi, everyone. Welcome to “HubShots” episode 214. In this episode, we discuss having no privacy plus using HubSpot to meet COVID guidelines, plus HubSpot in app notifications. You’re listening to Asia Pacific’s number one, HubSpot focus podcast, where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks, features and strategies for growing your marketing, sales and service results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and with me is Craig Bailey from Zen Systems. How are you, Craig?

– I am well Ian and feeling exposed actually. I’ll come to that in a minute when I realized I had no privacy at all. I’d love your feedback because for those of you who have signed up to get notifications of the show notes, they get sent out every Friday but currently they only have a summary of the post and I’m wondering if any of our listeners would like the entire show notes come to them as an email. ‘Cause if you actually look on our site, the show notes are pretty detailed. We have tons of screenshots, lots of stuff. If you’d like that in an email, could you just, well, drop us a note on LinkedIn, send us an email, reply to one of our notification emails. You have to sign up for it on the site first and let us know. Now you might think, well, why don’t you just provide it anyway? As I’ve come to in shot five, it’s actually a little bit harder than it sounds so we’ll come to that.

– All right, Craig, our growth thought of the week is, you have no privacy. All right, so I didn’t realize this ’cause I’m in calls with the HubSpot team I mean and last week I was on a call with a client and with Nifty Nick. Hey, shout out to Nick. Nick had organized the meeting and sent the Zoom link and so we joined. Nick was, I got on there a bit early with the client and we’re chatting away. Anyway during the call, one of the other people on the call, not from HubSpot but actually an outside consultant said, “Look, would it be okay if I recorded this call?” He was asking everyone on the Zoom call and Nick says, “Oh no worries, this is automatically recorded.” And we’re like, “What?” “Yeah, no, the call’s recorded. “I can send you a copy afterwards.” I’m like, “Ah.” Anyway, this was news to me but when you join a HubSpot call, there’s this little thing, it’s kind of as if someone’s sitting there without their monitor on and it just says HubSpot note taker. And I’ve seen this on calls before and I’m like, “Oh, I wonder what that is, it’s just muted.” I just assume it was someone in the office that if they needed to, they could jump on the call. Anyway, that’s some outside service. You’d heard of this, it’s called Gong, I think.

– Gong.io.

– Gong.io.

– It analyzes calls and it gives people sales intelligence to how people are reacting on the zoom call.

– Yeah, right okay. Well, maybe I’m the last person in the world to know about this because in hindsight, maybe it was kind of obvious but I had no idea. Actually, no, I’m not the last person ’cause the other people on the call were totally surprised as well. Anyway, so it sits there and it records the entire call and what’s disconcerting about this is that it had been recording right from the start. There’s no indication on the screen, you know the normal zoom recording. So that’s not there. And it’s been recording right from the start. So even before Nick from HubSpot joined the call, I was there chatting with the client. Luckily nothing sensitive or well, not that we would anyway, but kind of assumed we were just chatting private. We were talking about personal stuff and then now it’s all been recorded and so a bit of a cold sweat goes through. I’m like, “Oh, how many HubSpot calls have I been on?” Perhaps with my team, we’ve joined the call early or perhaps with clients, you kinda mentally race back going, “What did I say?” It wouldn’t have been anything bad but it’s sometimes there is just intelligence, things that you wanna talk about privately. Anyway, that’s all an intro to say, you have no privacy and I think this has been my default position for a while is that, look, you have no privacy. Someone’s gonna get it. But this is just a reminder to everyone. I think just take the default position that you have no privacy, Slack calls, email, Zoom. Just about any tool you use, HubSpot, all your data’s in there. Sensitive deals, just assume you have no privacy, regardless of all of these regulations and privacy rules in California and European Union, all that kinda stuff. That’s my default position and just finally, if you’ve been following the congressional hearings recently, you saw how Facebook, all your emails from way back when they were acquiring or going after Instagram, also Apple emails from way back when all surfaced. I bet Mark Zuckerberg never thought they’d see the light of day but there they are, all out for public consumption. I mean, what’s your position and do you kinda feel, do you feel you have any privacy?

– To be honest, Craig no and I’ve known this for a while and I think it’s becoming more and more apparent that like it’s more in people’s faces. Let’s put it that way, that there is no privacy. You can tell now very clearly, and this happens to me all the time. I talk to people and when we tell them what we do, they often go, “Hey, I was talking about this to my wife “or my friend,” and the next minute I’m on Facebook and I see an ad. I’m scrolling through the feed and this happens all the time.

– But hang on. Now you’re getting into tin foil hat territory here which I’m not disagreeing with, by the way.

– I know for a fact, look and you know, if you use G suite for your email or you’re using Google mail, you’ll just look at what happens now. It predicts everything that you’re about to write. It pre-fills their name and like we said in the last episode 10 on HubSpot AI in your inbox to fill out details, straight to CRM, pick up any actions. You know what, with stuff like that, there is a price essentially and that’s what we’re seeing.

– I think that’s right. Just a final comment because my VA has full control of, well a lot of my life really. So I’m totally fine with that. But I think there’s a difference between knowing that someone has access to your stuff and not knowing and that’s the thing. So the point, if you’re an agency owner, HubSpot partner here maybe, that’s potentially just a note. If you’re ever joining a HubSpot call with your client, alert the client that it’s probably being recorded and they haven’t been asked for their permission. No one asks for their permission and no one notified us. So I think that’s an important thing so that your clients don’t feel unsettled by it. Just make sure it’s very clear upfront.

– Well said, Craig. I think someone made a good point this week when I was listening to something about the whole privacy, what that means to us and how we should embrace what’s coming. And I can’t remember off the top of my head right now but when I do, I’ll stick it in the show notes. All right on to our marketing feature of the week, Craig and this is to do with using HubSpot to help one of our clients who happens to be a home builder and they’ve got display homes in different locations. And now it’s a requirement by law that they need to keep a track of who has been into the display homes. And it started off with a conversation of, how do I create a QR code? I’m like, what are you doing with a QR code? Anyways, so it turned out to be, here’s the QR code and then we also need to know which location. So what they were trynna do is collect the data in a really simple and easy manner so that they could then keep a track because if they find out that someone has got the virus and they need to inform other people, they now have a register, essentially.

– So this is basically about contact tracing, right?

– Exactly, so got QR codes for each location, built a really simple form, first name, last name, email with their phone number so we can get in contact via email or a call, definitely a call because I think that’s one of the first things that they do, is call you and also a consent of marketing. If they want to know, what’s interesting out of this conversation and shoot other things. It’s like, hang on. What if that person has already spoken to us and they’re already getting nothing from us? What if they’ve never actually converted with us? Maybe they visited the site. We might not know that but maybe they’ve just been browsing but they’ve never actually downloaded anything or interacted that we understand with, then what do we do? So it was really interesting. It started with this really simple question and then went down this whole thing. Oh, what else can I show? Oh, it actually turned out to be interesting. It’s like in the sales meeting, they were like, well, can I show how many people that inquired now have actually visited a display. I guess with more data, we see more stuff here. But what we essentially did was implement this in HubSpot so that when people scan the QR code, they got taken to a particular learning page, gave them the simple form. Now out of that, we’ve created lists in the backend. You’ll see, there’s a couple of lists. We’ve created lists with the overall list of people that are registered. Then we’ve split it by location. Then we’ve said, tell me the ones that have got no owner and have opted in and the ones that have no owner and haven’t opted in and have maybe engaged with us at some time? So just trynna understand who these people are and you know what, this is really interesting when you look at what’s going on and how we can implement stuff. Now, the next part was, oh, how do we tell sales? And this is leading on to our, HubSpot sales feature of the week.

– Just before you do that, can I ask you a question on this? So the reason for the QR code is ’cause you want them to register on their own device. Is that right?

– Correct, yeah. As opposed to having like an iPad sitting there where they type in?

– That’s right.

– Right, ’cause I’ve seen in businesses mainly, they have like a pen and paper. You’ve got to write your note but I actually haven’t seen any way you can kinda sign in and it’s kind of obvious, I’ve wondered why it’s not been there but I think this is really good. There’s a perfect example of it being implemented, well done.

– And you know what, there was a really good blog post on the HubSpot blog about QR codes and how to set them up, which is what I actually shared with my client at the time when they said, how do I do this? What service do I use?

– You better put that in resource for the week as well.

– I have to put that in the resource the week. And so listeners, the next part was one of the things, it’s like, well, how do we notify if we know who that person is and they’re already dealing with somebody in sales, how do we notify the person in sales that the person’s been through the display? So what we did was we created a workflow and we decided with sales, instead of getting another email, we’ll send an in app notification to sales to let them know that their customer or potential customer has been through the display and maybe they get notified while they do it. So they could be in the display at the time and they might actually recognize that they’ve been notified that they’re actually there and get an opportunity to speak to them and see how things are going. So that was another little thing that came out of that, that we implemented.

– That is really nice, I like that.

– Onto our listener question of the week, Craig. Alrighty, a question from longtime listener and supporter of the show. This is Martin Bredell and he’s the CEO at Takeoff PR in Austria, shout out to Austria. He often gives us a shout out as well and talks about not having kangaroos in Austria, which we of course have in Australia.

– We used to chat a bit on LinkedIn, but sorry, man. I’m just so not on LinkedIn these days. I’m terrible at it but email this in and, we’ll go through the question in a second, but I wanted to say we really like getting questions from listeners and there’s been a few others actually. Martin’s been good and we’ve been conversing backwards, forwards on the buyer journey and attribution tracking. Not so much questions but him telling me things and chatting about the discussion. So it’s been really good and email by the way, is the best format for me. I’m sorry, I bailed in LinkedIn.

– So listeners, what you were going to say, Craig, if you wanna ask a question by all means, we’d love you to record a voice question and just attach it to an email and email it through to us. We would love to include that in the show, if you don’t mind.

– Yep, we’ll fit you on the show. Actually, do you wanna read out Martin’s question in?

– “Hi, Craig. “You and Ian are really running the HubSpot marathon. “Awesome how much energy you are investing “for all of us followers. “For me, it is easy to stay on track with HubSpot. “Just listen to 20 minutes on public transport “to “HubShots.” Well, there you go.

– I know, thanks Martin, yeah.

– Thank you, Martin. “I do have this question “and I think this is something perhaps HubSpot CMS users “also care about. “How important is Google’s page insight speed? “Is this the final device measure speed? “We have tested the 20 top HubSpot partners,” so the top tiers, “and no one is doing well “on Google insight speed. “You and Ian are not the best performing there either. “Should we ignore Google page speed insights?”

– All right, so a really good question and it probably follows on from last episode or on episode two, when we were chatting about the new core web vitals that are turning up now in Google search console and these Metrix while they’re available on Google page speed insights, which is what Martin’s referring to. So I’ve got links to page speed insights. If you haven’t seen it, it’s a very simple Google tool. Google’s good actually. They’re putting out a lot of tools and these are very user friendly. And so what you do is you stick in your website, I’ve got some screenshots here where we ran “HubShots” through the analyzer. Interestingly, when I put it in, I put it in as an https but you’ll see in the screenshot, it’s taken the sl, I’m not sure why but you’ll even see the one I’ve requested. Anyway, that goes through and it gives you some metrics. Some of those, first content for paid cumulative if these are the core web vital metrics, things that we talked about and you’ll see “HubShots” on mobile is really bad. It gets 16 out of 100. It’s a little bit better on desktop. We score a 67 there but man’s alluding to the fact that, yeah, it’s a really bad score and a lot of sites score badly. So his question is, well, given that so many sites score badly and especially HubSpot-hosted sites, as well as WordPress hosted sites, we not really worry about it? So it’s a good question. It’s a difficult one to answer but lemme give a few comments. Firstly, the first thing I do whenever I use a comparison tool is I go and compare it with Amazon because we know Amazon is so focused on user experience that they will work incredibly hard to get as responsive site as possible. So that’s the first kinda benchmark, I always check in Amazon and we’ve got some of them in the screenshots. So on mobile, amazon.com that I use, the home page gets a 53. Immediately it’s better than our 16 but it’s lower than our 67 that we get on desktop. Amazon on desktop gets a 73. Go and check out the screenshots ’cause you’ll see some of those good core web vitals stats coming through. So then given that Amazon doesn’t perform particularly well, although better than us admittedly but they’re not up in the 90s, the question really does become, well is it worth doing? And so here’s, well, this is just my opinion, interested in whether you agree or disagree, Ian but I feel it’s useful as a guide. So we always look at these and go, okay, is there anything obvious or a low hanging fruit that we should fix? So if you do some of these things and you say, Oh, you’ve got a format file on the home page and it’s really slowing it down. Great, you should go and fix that. There’s also other tools, and we’ve talked about this in other episodes, Sheet, GT Metrix, webpage password of cause website creator, HubSpot’s own tool. Run through those as well. Good to run sites through a range of tools because some highlight different things, which you can take action on. However, even though we scored so badly, the other thing I do is then just test myself. I go on my phone. We don’t have particularly good internet here at home and I test on desktop, test on incognito so it’s not cached. I run it and I check the response and whereas page insights were saying 18 seconds before I could use the page on mobile, I know myself just on mobile on average internet, it’s actually responsive after a second or two. It’s actually really quick. So it makes me dubious and I’m not exactly sure why they’re so poor on page insights. So my summary is, I don’t get too caught up on it, especially when I see Amazon is also graded poorly but I do look for it into insights that I can easily fix, low hanging fruit. What’s been your experience, Ian?

– Similar experience, Craig. And one of the other tools I use in conjunction, is GT Metrix and I use that to test and keep history of what’s going on. So that’s a really good tool to get started with. I know page speed insights can be difficult at times and also listeners take a note of this. It’s called page speed insights, not website speed insights and it’s looking at a page. So you often put in your website that looks at the home page. Now, if you run that test on a different page, you will get a different answer. So just be aware that this does not apply to your site right across the board and obviously there are common components, they might be headers, footers that are common across the site, but it could be what is on the homepage. You could be running a really big video or something. So just be aware of that. So one of the things we do is like, look at those top traffic pages and test its page insights on those top traffic pages to give an insight into how the speed is. And just like Craig said, test it yourself, test it on your mobile device, test it on your desktop, get your mother to test it and see how she feels because that’s a good measure because if some people to, probably get a really younger person to test it because there’ll be really impatient and they’ll go, “That’s too slow.” So that’s a really good measure because what you might be seeing, and I know on GT Metrix, you can set where the test takes place from. So often the test defaults to the U.S or to Canada and we specifically test we was hosting a site here in Sydney and we wanna test it in Sydney because that’s where all our market is all in Australia. So that can make a big difference. We’re not going across the Atlantic and coming back here, we’re on the same continent. So just be aware of these things when we’re talking about page speed insights and about how they’re collecting the data because that’s a really key thing in this whole process. All right, onto HubShots gotcha of the week, Craig and this is going back to those listeners. Would you like all the show notes in an email from us? And now Craig is gonna explain how hard this is to do.

– All right, so just to recap, we want to send out a blog post that’s posted on a HubSpot hosted blog. We wanna send that out as the full post, all the content in an email. It’s actually quite hard to set that up custom. So many people know that when you create a HubSpot blog, HubSpot in the background creates three emails for you, instant notification or daily, weekly and monthly. And that email, if you go into it, you can edit it and you can set a setting that says, full post content, but that is only sent to the people that have subscribed using that blog subscribe widget. So normally that’s on a sidebar. That’s not our situation. We’ve actually got a whole list of HubShot subscribers that get the notification. That’s a custom email, it’s not that a HubSpot created one. That does not have an option for the full email content. So then the question is, well, how do you actually make it happen? So I’m currently working on a little process for that and I will mention that in a future show, if we can get it all working but it basically involves finding that subscription setting on the contact record, setting it via a workflow to send basically for people that are in another list. So more on that, but that’s the HubSpot gotcha of the week. I don’t know why it’s not easier or maybe it’s easy and I just don’t realize it. So the gotcha is I couldn’t find it. More on that in a future episode.

– Alright, Craig, onto our marketing tip of the week, and this is P.S lines in emails.

– Well, just a reminder that this is kinda one of those well-known, I won’t call it a growth hack or anything but it’s just the P.S line in those emails. You send out a campaign, everyone knows, they go to the bottom and then, P.S have you seen our XXX or have you this, fill out a survey. It’s very powerful, people often click that. We’ve looked at those heat map overlays where people click. Often they’ll skim through your whole email and the only thing they click is the P.S line. So just a reminder, don’t ignore the P.S in your email campaigns.

– All right, Craig, and onto our insight of the week. Marketing is like martial arts.

– I’ll tell you how this came up. Chatting with a client, they’ve got outside consultant and other marketing agencies involved. And we are the main marketing agency for this client but they’ve been involved with some government grants and government local business things who have then brought in other agencies. So there’s a bunch of marketing agencies involved and I’ve then been in calls with these other marketing agencies and we’re all kind of advising our client, the CEO of our client. And it occurred to me, there’s kind of friction and it’s not like competitive friction ’cause these other people are just on a set thing. It’s not like where they’re gonna bump us out or we’re bumping that out or anything. But it’s just actually, it’s not friction, it’s inefficiency. And it occurred to me that because I was like, why is this getting inefficient? Why are we not getting things done? It occurred to me it’s like martial arts and fun fact, I think you know, Ian I did martial arts for 30 years, I did karate. And it wasn’t until I was, shall we say at a certain level of proficiency that I then started incorporating other martial arts styles. Because when you’re a beginner, you just gotta stick with one style. It occurred to me here, this CEO is trying to learn a whole bunch of different martial arts styles as a beginner all at once. Each marketing agency has their own way of doing it, their own martial art, if you like. So he’s ended up with the big ready to rumble, mixed martial arts extravaganza and he’s a beginner, doesn’t know what to do. And it’s like none either is right or wrong. It’s not like one martial art is right. Karate is better that Judo, they’re all good. It’s just that you can’t learn them all at once. I thought that was a nice, interesting parallel.

– Analogy.

– Analogy. I don’t know if it works or I’ve flubbed it too hard there but I think it was a good insight when I explained to the client, you’re trying to learn too many things at once. Just find one, stick with it, get really good at it then you can expand to include other styles.

– I couldn’t agree more, Craig. All right, listeners, onto our app of the week and this is 3D Cover Creator in CSS. So Craig was showing this and I got excited. So we’ll put the link in the show notes. It’s really cool. Put a image of your potential ebook or book and you can create a really nice looking book that will even have some sort of interactivity with you that you can stick on a site and you can essentially cut the code and stick it on your page.

– All right, onto our quote of the week, listeners and this quote is from a Larry Bird and this ties in very well with your previous point, Craig. It says, “First master the fundamentals.” And how funny was that? I’ve stuck that code in before you actually put out the marketing tip.

– Perfect.

– Alright, listeners, we’ve got some bonus links which are in the show notes on work challenges that Microsoft has written and it’s well worth the read and we’ll probably discuss that in another episode. Please follow us on the socials, comment on our personal LinkedIn. Please connect with Craig and myself on LinkedIn and tell us that you listen to the show. We love to hear from you guys and thank you to those who have connected with us over the last week. We appreciate that. If we can help you in any way with anything, HubSpot, marketing strategy, you need a portal review even with ads because it’s very inbound, ey Craig? We can help you and don’t feel afraid to reach out to us and ask us any questions and we love hearing from you. Any questions that you have and you would like us to feature on the show, please, like I said, record them and send the voice note by email, we’d love to hear from you. Well, listeners until next week, catch you later, Craig.

– Catch you later, Ian.

– Hey there, thanks for listening to this episode of “HubShots.” To get the latest show notes, HubSpot tips and marketing resources, sign up at hubshots.com. You can also book time with us to help you grow better, with HubSpot.

Episode 213: HubSpot Conversations Trends, HubSpot Sequences

Episode 213: HubSpot Conversations Trends, HubSpot Sequences

Welcome to HubShots Episode 213: HubSpot Conversations Trends, HubSpot Sequences

This episode we discuss Conversations trends, HubSpot Email Reporting insights, and HubSpot Sequences.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/213-hubspot-conversations-trends-hubspot-sequences

Welcome to HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Recorded: Thursday 30 July 2020 | Published: Friday 07 August 2020

Shot 1: Growth Thought of the Week

Customer-Initiated Chat

From HubSpot’s COVID data portal:

conversations by region

“Since the business world has suddenly shifted to a remote setting, chat volume has soared. Sales teams have pivoted to chat to grow their pipelines, while customer service teams are leveraging this medium to manage the increased demand for support.”

“With the exception of two weeks, chat volume has steadily risen week-over-week since the beginning of March, peaking at 45% above the benchmark in late-May. Total chat volume in Q2 outpaced Q1 by a notable 31%. As restrictions on businesses continue to be lifted around the world, it’ll be interesting to see if chat volume maintains this steady growth.”

However, compare the conversations growth with the contact growth:

contact growth by region

contact growth

Conversations may be going up, but contacts aren’t.

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

HubSpot Email Report – Opens by Email Client

Worth reviewing the email client opens for your clients.

Here’s an example in the solar industry – notice how recipients are by far opening in Gmail:

hubspot email clients 1

And here’s an example in the technology space – notice how recipients by far are opening in Microsoft tools:

hubspot email clients 2

This can be valuable – for the first industry, it could even impact content strategy eg blog posts such as ‘How to setup XXX in GSuite to enable YYY’

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

HubSpot Sequences

HubSpot has been rolling a ton of updates to sequences lately – it is getting some love!

We are seeing the use of HubSpot AI here where it will choose the time to get the highest open rate!

The ability to unenroll contacts from the same company is also a great new addition.

Mouse Highlight Overlay 3

Mouse Highlight Overlay 1

If you’re using HubSpot’s integration with LinkedIn Sales Navigator, you can create tasks to remind you to send an InMail or connection request.  This is very useful if you are not getting any traction from email and using it as a way to engage with prospects.

Tip: What we suggest is to create a task to follow them before you make a connection or sending inMail.

Mouse Highlight Overlay 2

Shot 4: HubShots Listener Note of the Week

Thank you to our Listeners

Thanks to Chad Treadway from Cube Creative Design for his kind comments:

“Hey, listened to the cast over the weekend. I just wanted to say I would listen to the show if it was 3 hours long :)”

No Thank you to spammers

Here’s why I am hardly on LinkedIn – over the last week only 2 connections (green line) have been actual good connections (plus this doesn’t include all the connection requests I don’t even accept) – I mute everyone who immediately tries to sell to me:

linkedin messaging

BTW this is also why I have a VA who manages my LinkedIn for me.

Shot 5: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

HubSpot Ads Reminder

Reminder about the HubSpot Ads interface – toggling these will impact campaigns – they are not used for including/excluding from the totals at the top:

hubspots ads 1

We’ve mentioned this many times before on the show – and we still see people getting caught out, so it is worth reminding about.

Shot 6: Marketing Tip of the Week

Google My Business – Google Guarantee is Coming

Google is ‘finally’ starting to roll out a paid option for Google My Business listings – the first is the Google Guarantee, currently starting in the US and Canada.

It adds a tick to your listing and offers some financial security for people who buy via your GMB listing. It requires a screening process and costs $50 USD per month.

This is just the start – take advantage of your GMB listing now – while it is still free.

Shot 7: Insight of the Week

Marketing Tech Stack versus Marketing User Experience considerations

A client is reviewing their martech stack – a combination (amongst others) of Salesforce, Sitecore and HubSpot. The goal is to consolidate as well as improve efficiency.

Since martech budgets and maintenance often sit with IT, they tend to become a capex line item that is reviewed for internal ‘financial efficiency’. However this can be at the expense of outward ‘execution efficiency’.

If your marketing team is highly efficient with some tools and not others – it is very hard to capture this on a line item to compare.

Shot 8: Trend of the Week

The Tech-Enabled Office in a Post-Covid World

CBinsights brings the insight with this long piece exploring technology changes in the office.

“To stay ahead of the curve, companies will need to consider key investments across wellness, remote collaboration tools, mobile cybersecurity tech, accessible HR tools, and workforce training programs for professional development and upskilling.”

One key item they highlighted: autonomous bathroom cleaning solutions:

Office Reopening Tech 2 08 1 768x390 1

Everyone is focussing on online collaboration and online learning – how many companies are focussing on these other areas?

Shot 9: Resource of the Week

Hell Yeah or No by Derek Sivers

Listening to Derek narrate his latest book has been wonderful.

Shot 10: Quote of the Week

“In the end, it’s about what you want to be, not what you want to have.”

― Derek Sivers, Anything You Want

Shot 11: Bonus Links of the Week

Building Your Go-To-Market Strategy

A useful post from SEMrush covering go-to-marketing research and planning.

Conversation Ads in LinkedIn

LinkedIn is rolling out conversation ads (which they cleverly refer to as choose-your-own-adventure-path experiences).

Shot 12: Follow Us on the Socials

Connect with HubShots here: HubShots YouTube channel – HubShots Spotify channel – HubShots Facebook group – HubShots Twitter – HubShots Instagram – HubShots LinkedIn

Connect with Ian Jacob on LinkedIn and Craig Bailey on LinkedIn

HubShots is produced by Christopher Mottram from Podcastily.

Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

Episode 213: HubSpot Conversations Trends, HubSpot Sequences

Full Transcript of HubShots Episode 213

– Hi everyone, welcome to HubShots’ Episode 213. In this episode we discuss HubSpot conversations, or should I just say conversations, HubSpot email reporting insights and HubSpot sequences. You’re listening to Asia Pacific’s number one HubSpot Focus Podcast, where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks, and strategies for growing your sales, marketing and service results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and with me is Craig Bailey from Xen Systems. How are you Craig?

– Hi, look I’m well Ian and I must say I haven’t been like the rest of the world that seems to be doing a lot of chatting. If we were to believe the latest HubSpot COVID results, you found this from the COVID Data Portal or what have you found?

– Correct and this is really interested and it kind of piqued my interest Craig, because what was very eye opening when I split it down by region. I was like, wow, people in Asia Pacific are far up numbering these conversations more than anyone else like when we’re talking about Latin America, North America and even Amir and I was like, hang on this is like interesting information, right? So I guess the sudden shift, so what they were saying the sudden shift means that people had to pivot. And I’ve been talking to people for a long time about implementing live chat and even using some chat bots initially, but no one did it until after COVID. And then now they’re like, Oh, we should have done that. So anyway, we’ve done it, but it’s really interesting. So what they’re saying is, with the exception of two weeks, chat volume has steadily risen week over week from the beginning of March peaking at 45% above the benchmark in late May. And the total volume in Q2 outpaced Q1 which we kind of expected right? By a notable 31% and as restrictions in businesses continue to be lifted around the world I’d be interesting to see if the chat volume remains on the steady growth. Now, what I think you pointed out very aptly to me is that when you compare the contact growth, it tells a different story.

– So yeah, chat is increasing enormously up to 70%, or more than the previous benchmark, but contact growth no, pretty low, some grow, some not. Maybe in Latin America, there were contact growth was much larger, which was kind of an interesting sideline. But yeah, in APAC, yeah, it’s, the chat is high and growth isn’t. So I don’t know if all that chat is happening with customers that are already contacts or whether people are just doing a lot more inquiry but not actually signing up for anything. I can say anecdotally, from our big clients, like big enterprises where we’re doing conversion-based lead gen campaigns for them, we’re getting low numbers of conversions. This is across a number of industries. And we’re scratching our head, plenty of traffic, plenty of engagement, lots of paid ads, lots of spend but people are just not signing up for stuff. And we puzzled, I think, we’re trying a whole bunch of things, but maybe that people are just ad-fatigued and they seem to show interest, but they won’t go the next step. They won’t even hand over an email address. And so we’re finding that really weird, so that kind of correlates with what was seeing in these graphs from the HubSpot Data Portal.

– Yes, I guess, again, Craig, it depends, because on some of our customer portals, we’re seeing very low to no engagement over chat. But then on others where people are buying certain goods that they need, there is a decent level of engagement on a daily basis to the point where what we started doing was we started off with live chat, now we’ve put a bot to start the chat, to collect some information and then we’re moving into a live chat scenario. So it’s really interesting to see what’s happening and again, like I tell people, it’s all good theory until you test and measure it. So, with the tools that you have, you should be able to get this going really quickly to understand is it effective in your market space. Now, Craig on to our marketing, HubSpot marketing feature of the week, and this is the HubSpot email report and email opens by client.

– Yeah, I’ll draw everyone’s attention to this ’cause this is hiding right down the bottom of an email report. So you’ve sent out an email campaign, let’s say, you go and view it, you see all the results, of course it’s got that at the top, you know, opens and click throughs and all of that, you scroll right to the bottom and you see this opens by email client. So I’ve got two screenshots from two different portals here. In the first one, we see a massive skew towards Gmail up around 60% of opens are in Gmail. And in fact, when you look at how many Outlook or Microsoft Office based opens, it’s less than 5% total for this newsletter sent. And then in the second screenshot, I’ve got an example from one of our clients in the technology space and you almost say the reverse, massive opening by Microsoft tools. So why am I highlighting this? Well, first of all, it’s not unexpected, you know, in the technology space, and especially this client here, they’re actually SQL Server consultancy. So do expect at Microsoft, but in the first instance, it’s like, Oh, these are actually for solar dealers and we’re like, oh, seeing no Microsoft tools in solar dealerships. It’s all G Suite. Now, and so that gives us insight into what kind of content we could be writing. So just a simple example for this it might be on how to use G Suite and connect it to HubSpot, for example, or how to use the latest extensions in G Suite for growing your business. So the point of mentioning this is, I think it’s one of those things that people often overlook, they like I don’t care what they open my email in, and so well maybe you should check it out because depending on the industry they’re in, there might be some content ideas there to take advantage of.

– Absolutely right, Craig, and I think you highlighted something very key to providing some insight to people with very little effort. Alright, now on to our sales feature the week Craig and this has to do with HubSpot sequences.

– I’m so looking forward to hearing you talk about this ’cause you know what, I don’t use HubSpot sequences at all. We don’t use it with any of our clients. So I just wanted to say that up front, because I know I try and be across everything. But sequences is just something I’ve not used at all and not with our clients. So talk us through it, we’ve talked about it on the show, and I understand how it works. But having not actually implemented it, I can’t talk with authority. So tell us all about it ’cause I know you’re using it with a ton of your clients.

– Yes, we are Craig and so one of the things, so there’s heaps of things to, in sequences, but I’ll highlight some of the changes that have come in which will actually help people. So the first one is we’re gonna see, just because we love HubSpot AI, here’s more, and this is where it will enable you to choose a time so you get the highest open rate and we’ve got a screenshot in there and you can send those automated emails. And you can specify the time, which is actually really cool. So between certain hours.

– Actually, maybe we should go back a step. For listeners that don’t actually know what HubSpot Sequences is, do you wanna give a very quick summary of the functionality?

– So it’s a sequence of events, that generally involve, could be a task, can be email, can be you getting a task to send in email, what happens is that you initiate it from HubSpot, or from an inbox as a sequence, you choose, so let’s say that there’s seven steps in here, you choose when each of those steps will be triggered, or you give these, sometimes defaults. And then what happens is, when you initiate the sequence, and it’s in, someone’s enrolled in it, it’s basically like you are taking those action through your inbox, but the system is doing on your behalf. So it’s pretty much like a one on one interaction. And the way you break the sequence or a way people get out of it is if they respond to that Email, that’s how it breaks the sequence and they get unenrolled. The other way they would do it is manually and that is say somebody gets your email, and then they call you up, then you should unenroll them from the sequence so they don’t keep getting the next email that says, Hey, I haven’t heard from you. So those are two ways to get people out of the sequence. But it’s really a one on one interaction between two people that’s automatically executed. So the next thing, Craig, which is really good is the ability to unenroll contacts from the same company is a great new addition and this is in the settings, you can actually turn this on so it’ll unenroll all the people from that company. Now, sometimes this is not valid, because you might be speaking to different people. But I guess this is important if people are trying to get in touch with multiple people that may be in the same team. So they just wanna make sure that they’re stopping this from going out any further once they’ve made that contact. The next thing I wanted to share was the ability to Connect LinkedIn Sales Navigator, and to send Sales Navigator email and connection requests. Now this is great, right? But here’s a little tip that we’re doing with one of our clients is, before we even do this, we have created a task, which ends up going to the person in sales to say, look, if these things haven’t happened, what we suggest is you follow them on LinkedIn. So go follow, see what they’re doing, and be educated before taking the next step. So the next time they make a call, they can actually talk about something about what they know what that person is doing or what’s been going on in the industry that will help them bridge that gap. And then after that, I would say then make the connection requests without randomly connecting to people without intent.

– Okay, so give some examples of how you’re using this with your clients. And also earlier before the show you were telling me an insight that you’d found with one of your clients without sending out, and you can Check response rates and all those kinds of things to gauge success.

– Correct and there is a lot of great reporting around sequences. And in, this is in the sales content analysis. As an example I was doing it with one of my clients, they noticed that they’d enrolled over 100 people in a sequence, but they only had 11 opens, and with an average reply rate of 7.7%. So we actually looked at why this would be the case. And we looked at the first email, we looked at the subject line, looked at the first sentence and they’ve got somebody new in sales and he looked at it, he goes, ah, I don’t know if I got that subject line and I saw that, I’d be like, it’s not really enticing me. So we went, Okay, well, let’s change the subject line and let’s change that first sentence. So it’s a bit more enticing and one of the guys in the team, I’ve been working with him and he’s quite an interesting character, and he always put something quirky and actually, I thought it was really good. So I said, What have you sent that has actually made people open your email, so he said, Oh, I have had this title, and I put this as the first sentence. I said, Okay, well, let’s try that for the next month, and see whether we can increase the open rate and increase the interaction that people are having. So that’s what we’re gonna test over the next 30 days. So, but that’s a really good insight. So looking at the numbers, makes a massive difference in this whole process, and always be refining and testing. So don’t be afraid through the whole process we’ve actually changed stuff. So we’re looking at sequences as people, as sales team using, we’re looking and seeing what is working, then they say, Oh, no, that doesn’t work. We can’t send, do this task here. Can we shift that? So sequences have becomes so much more flexible, where you’re able to move the task or the particular action down or up based on where it needs to happen. And it’s made a massive difference. That’s all I can say is that don’t be afraid to try new things.

– You’ve inspired me, I’ve got to get into this. There’s some areas as much as I love the product, I just can’t be across everything. And this is one of those things that I’ve really neglected. And perhaps some of our listeners have too. So join me, let’s play with sequences further.

– All right, Craig. HubSpot listener of the week I wanted to shout out to Chad Treadway from Cube Creative Design, by the way, nice link there for you, added in the show notes. Chad, thanks for listening, a great supporter of the show. He’s, we’ve emailed back and forth a number of times, pretty sick, ’cause you know how we asked, should we increase the length or keep it shorter and–

– Yes,

– So he very kindly replied and Hey, listen Listened to the Cast over the weekend, I wanna say I would listen to the show, even if it was three hours long. Oh, my goodness, that’s commitment there and very much appreciate that comment Chad, thanks for being a great supporter and that made my day. I know this probably took him 10 seconds to shoot that email through but it made my day. So thanks, and thanks to listeners who send us that.

– Now listeners because Craig loves doing things live. I was actually thinking of doing either a YouTube or a Facebook Live, and just to encourage people to jump on. And you can ask us questions. So if you’re interested, please message us on LinkedIn and tell us or on Instagram and let us know. Because I’m actually keen to try it out, Craig, not so much on the other hand, but–

– No, I’m quite, I’ll do it, you’ll force me to do it. Okay, I’ll do it. But hey, speaking of LinkedIn, so that first part was thanks to our listeners and thanks Chad in particular, but no thanks to spammers. And I’ve put in a screenshot this is from my own LinkedIn messages screen so that you can see why I’m almost about to give up on LinkedIn. I mean, I’m hardly on social channels anyway. But this will give you insight. So in the screenshot, you can see whenever I get someone, first line of defense, I get a whole bunch of connection requests and you know, I accept some and then I decline others or all my VA actually does a lot of this for me, but then over the ones that make it through in the screenshot, you can see how many I’ve muted, right? I go through and, and this is as soon as I connect with someone they send me, hi, I wanna sell you stuff, like I can’t mute, so that they, you know, ’cause otherwise they’re using, you know, Phantom Buster or whatever, any of these LinkedIn spamming tools to just set up sequences. And so in the screenshot, there’s only two in the last week out of all the connections, and I’ve marked them in green, that are actually valid, and they were listeners and so they were the only good requests, while they’re two listeners, and thank you for those connections, they didn’t try and sell me stuff. And someone even said, I’m not trying to sell you stuff. I guess I noticed too well now, but oh my goodness, I have so much. It’s a bit of a dumpster fire LinkedIn, isn’t it? It’s just so.

– You what know, Craig I didn’t even know about that mute feature. So thank you for letting me know. And listeners if you are listening and you wanna mute the messages or the message from that particular person. I try to find it looking at Craig’s screenshot and had no idea where to go. So you need to make sure that it’s the three dots in the main section where you see the messages. When you click there, you’ll get the option to mute the person. It’s not in the section where you see Craig’s screenshot.

– All right, maybe I should put a second screenshot ’cause yeah, until, I just thought everyone knew about it. And you can also unconnect, I don’t normally unconnect well then maybe I’m getting–

– It’s like unfriending people, Craig

– Unfriending, yeah, but you can just get your VA to do it. They just go in, anyone that tries to sell you stuff straightaway mute or if it’s particularly bad, I just disconnect but you can tell when they even try and connect if they’re spammy, so, normally I don’t even accept those ones. Anyway, I’ve gone off on a rant on LinkedIn. In fact, I’ve probably spend much time ranting about LinkedIn than I’ve actually spent on LinkedIn in the last week. Okay, lets move on.

– Yeah, I’ll give a shout out to your VA, Marrie.

– Yes, Marrie, you’re wonderful.

– All right onto our HubShot Gotcha of the Week Craig and this is the HubSpot ads reminder and this is a reminder to people, if you’re looking at the ads interface, and you see that lovely button that looks like you’re turning things on or off, what that is gonna do, is gonna stop or pause your campaign. So don’t play with those buttons thinking it’s gonna fix your reporting on the dashboard, it actually turns the campaign off.

– We’ve talked about this a number of times on the show before and it still keeps catching our clients. So this is a screenshot from today for a client, actually, we’re not working with them at the moment, but we used to, but going in and doing some, a little bit of training. And then someone just goes in Oh, yeah and here’s how we look at reporting and I’ll just turn this off to update the title. No, no, you’ve turned the campaign off. Well, whoops, turn it back on. It’s just a bad user interface. This is a user interface.

– Faux pas.

– Is it faux pas what’s the word?

– No, it’s bad,

– Of that design, yeah, a design where it’s not. It’s exceedingly easy to use, but not intuitive enough to protect you from yourself, there’s a word for that kind of design. But this files.

– All right, Craig onto our marking tip of the Week and this is Google My Business and the Google guarantee is coming. Haven’t we spoken about this a few times?

– How long have we been saying paid things are coming to Google My Business. So take advantage of your Google My Business listing while you can. But plus this kind of, this Google guarantee, well, it’s only available in the US and Canada at the moment, but I’m sure it’s gonna roll out to other regions. So hopefully it comes to Australia, and we’ll get a chance to use it. So we haven’t actually used it yet ourselves but looking at it, it’s 50 bucks a month, and they give you a guarantee and a tick and I would jump on that, frankly, for the credibility it provides.

– Absolutely,

– And the Google My Business thing for a bunch of our clients, especially if they’re local businesses, you know, I don’t know ’cause we don’t really get much local business and not all local businesses such be how to sell for our own agency, but for our clients, a lot of our clients, it’s a no brainer. 50 bucks a month to get that tick, jump on it.

– I would. And just to speed up the screening process and to have the support, I think that’s well worth it. All right, Craig our Insight of the week, Martech Stack versus marketing, user experience considerations.

– All right, so speaking with a client raised, I want to say there not a large corporate but they’re mid to large company, hundreds of staff, not thousands but big and a number of systems so big enough to have a legacy and complexity within their Martech Stack. They brought in an outside consultant to review and improve in terms of efficiency. So we’re part of the discussions with them, quite a number of platforms they’re using but the three of interest for this discussion are Salesforce, Sitecore and HubSpot. They’re on HubSpot enterprise. They’re on a Salesforce huge thing they used to have Pardot but they scrapped that HubSpot took over that. But they’ve got Sitecore for their site, and they’ve got quite a complex registration piece on their site. So they need Sitecore for that, it’s custom integrated with Salesforce. HubSpot is not a fit for replacing their website with its complexity. But they love HubSpot for landing pages, email marketing, social campaigns, and overall reporting, ’cause we have the pixel across their site as well. Anyway, the consultants come in, and part of the remit is to review and consolidate. And what’s interesting about this whole situation is that often Martech budgets and maintenance sit with IT. And so they’re normally a CapEx startup, So they’re a CapEx budget under the IT. Line item so that’s often reviewed for financial efficiency, purely just on cost of platform. And the reason I’ve got this in Insight of the week is because it’s very hard to argue, well not argue, but to discuss anything except a financial line item. And what I was explaining today when we’re chatting with them is the user experience of HubSpot in particular because they hated Pardot, they’re frustrated with Sitecore for a number of reasons not all Sitecores are fault, I have to say. But they love HubSpot. And so what we’ve seen is this HubSpot go from what was just initially a few landing pages with some nurture campaigns into now a portal that has hundreds of pages and also they’re sending hundreds of separate email campaigns every month. They’re sending, I was looking over the last, just last couple of months they’ve had almost half a million email since coming out of HubSpot portal. And the reason for that and that traction and you just see it go up over the last two years since we’ve had HubSpot in there, the users love it. And even then I was looking at their user list and I was like oh, wow, you’ve got like 20 people from the company in here, oh yeah, we’re all doing emails, everyone loves it. Of course, IT doesn’t see that, they just see a cost for HubSpot. They don’t see the actual user experience and the outward outcome from that, more emails that’s actually driving revenue. All they see is the internal piece. And so I just wanted to highlight this for agencies and also marketing managers, just to think about that you’ve got to be aware of this, especially when you’re talking about enterprise tools that often falls on IT. So it’s a Martech IT cost rather than a marketing revenue cost. So it’s cost setup versus revenue setup. And by the way, that’s why you’re starting to see IT report to the CMOs now, because the CMO is a revenue driver whereas IT tends to be a cost center still in some cases. So outcome of all of this, very hard to actually put a dollar figure on user experience and people loving the tool. But as a marketing manager, you need to because just by using the tool, you might have saved staff costs and things like that. So it might actually be having a financial effect, very hard to capture and put on a line item. But just another example of where HubSpot is providing value in a way that the whole enterprise benefit from, but it’s not necessarily recognized for.

– I couldn’t agree more, Craig, I think we were having this discussion not long ago about thinking the tool was expensive. But the tool that someone would be currently using is taking 10 times longer to do things in and giving less data to make the right choices. And I thought, did you ever figure out how much that was costing you, rather than saving money on the tool? So you know, you’re absolutely right. And this is what we’re seeing across a lot of organizations. This is not dissimilar to what you have just mentioned in terms of what people are experiencing and how critical it is now that these tools are operating and usable to get the result that people want. Now talking about that Craig, what’s a trend of the week?

– This is from CB Insights. CB Insights, bringing the insights with a long piece exploring technology changes in the office and when you talk about this post-COVID world which apparently everyone’s using post-COVID world, that’s a term now or new normal, I’m sick of hearing that, but they talk about what’s gonna change. And of course, we all jump to the usual go-tos, which are online collaboration, online learning, then were gonna go, this article highlights a few other trends, autonomous cleaning solutions in bathrooms. I’m just gonna pick on that one. Because, of course, and when you read the article, it’s like, yeah, this is technology robots, one of your clients, I’m not sure if we can mention them by name. But they actually make these cleaning machines and robots that will actually work in offices. And it’s like, everyone’s talking about online learning, that’s that’s the cool topic. No one’s talking about the machines that are cleaning bathrooms to keep us safe. And so the takeaway from me was, think outside just the usual examples that everyone’s talking about, look at these insights, CB Insights, see article there worth reading, and just expanding your thinking.

– Yeah, I’ll tell you one thing I came across the other day, Craig, as I was going into a shopping center to get something and you usually got to push the button to get the parking ticket, anyway so this time it was like, hey, wave your hand in the parking ticket will come out and I thought, Oh, that’s interesting. So here we go, there are so many of these things, like you rightly say that are taking place, that are not just directly technology related, but how we go about our daily lives. And I think there’s so much opportunity. So if you’re a business and you go I’m stuck, and I don’t know what to do, take a day out, get some people together, even people that are not in your business and think about what you can do to take advantage of what is happening right now. ‘Cause you might be surprised what you come up with. All right, Cray, we’ve got a great resource of the week and we both love it, Derek Sivers and his new book, “Hell Yeah or No”

– Yeah, Derek Sivers, as many people will know, we talked about him on the show before he built a online CD store called CD Baby. And he’s had a number of books, I’m listening to this, I don’t normally listen to audiobooks. I’m much more of a reader. But I’m listened to, he’s a great narrator. He has a wonderful voice and he’s got these sound effects and just some really nice quirks in terms of an audio like, I’m really enjoying it. It’s really inspiring me to think, along the lines of our quote of the week, which you found also from Derek Severs, which is,

– In the end, it’s about what you want to be. Not what you want to have. There it is Craig. All right, there are some bonus links, listeners about building your go-to market strategy. And it’s a useful post from SEMrush about covering your go-to marketing research and planning. So I’d encourage people to actually look at that. And also LinkedIn is rolling out conversation ads, and they, what do they refer to it as Craig?

– They’ve quickly referred to them as choose your own path, experiences way to say this with client now, so yeah, that’s a nice play on there. Remember the old Choose Your Own Adventure books when you’re a kid? I used to love those. But yeah, choose your own path experience. I think that’s the way to go. So it’s a combination between more of a bot, or chat bot and in my own kind of experience, so yeah, LinkedIn finally catching up and perhaps even innovating,

– And listeners again, please follow us on the socials, please connect with Craig and myself on LinkedIn. And send us a note that you listen to the show. We’d love to hear from you. We love to hear from our listeners. Thank you so much for everyone that has connected. Shout out to Christopher Mottram from Podcastily that produces our podcast. Thank you, Chris, for the great work that you’ve done in the almost five years we’ve been doing this together.

– Listeners tell us what you think of the outro music.

– Oh, yes, that’s right.

– But until next week Ian, I’ll catch you later Ian.

– See you Craig.

– Hey there, thanks for listening to this episode of HubShots. To get the latest show notes, HubSpot tips and resources sign up at HubShot.com. You can also book time with us to help you grow better with HubSpot.

Episode 212: GPT-3, Core Web Vitals, HubSpot AI & HubSpot Workflow Delay until Event Actions

Episode 212: GPT-3, Core Web Vitals, HubSpot AI & HubSpot Workflow Delay until Event Actions

Welcome to HubShots Episode 212: GPT-3, Core Web Vitals, HubSpot AI & HubSpot Workflow Delay until Event Actions

This episode we discuss GPT-3, Core Web Vitals, HubSpot AI, HubSpot Delay until Event Workflow Actions, plus a Drag and Drop email gotcha.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/212-gpt-3-core-web-vitals-hubspot-ai-hubspot-workflow-delay-until-event-actions

Welcome to HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Recorded: Thursday 23 July 2020 | Published: Friday 31 July 2020

Shot 1: Growth Thought of the Week

Thank you to our listeners and those who leave us reviews.  Here is one recently:

IMG 8D3868BEDC79 1

GPT-3 Overview

There’s been lots of talk about GPT-3 in the past few weeks. What is it and why all the fuss?

GPT-3 is the next iteration of the artificial intelligence API developed by Open AI (a company formed by Elon Musk, Sam Altman and others). It has been getting a lot of attention due to the example project people on the beta program have been building.

This is a good example of it GPT-3 in action, and here’s a good overview video from Aaron Jack.

Wired has a good overview with examples.

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

HubSpot Workflow Delay Until Event Action

HubSpot has added another Workflow Delay Action into the mix – this adds to the one we mentioned in episode 206 – this time it is a Delay until Event action:

hubspot workflow delay event

Which gives these options:

hubspot workflow delay event action

Fun to look with hindsight at some of the community posts that were inspirations for this kind of functionality.

As of recording today, it wasn’t yet in the HubSpot Knowledge Base article.

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

HubSpot AI Enablement on Inbox

Follow On from HubSpot AI enablement.  Looks like it is working well and saving time on data input!  Items like Job Title, etc.

Property History

Shot 4: HubSpot Stumper of the Week

HubSpot Drag and Drop Email Layouts versus Modules

If you are building single column emails (which is becoming best practice – especially since mobile is the main consumption device) it can be easily only drag Modules onto the email canvas – and then get confused as to why you can’t control the styling of the module.

The styling is set at the Layout level – so simply drag on Layout items first, and then add your Modules into them.

hubspot email content items

Shot 5: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

HubSpot Lifecycle Stage changes in a Workflow

Reminder: To move a lifecycle stage back (eg from SQL to MQL) in a Workflow you need to clear the Lifecycle property first.

hubspot lifecycle changes

Shot 6: Marketing Tip of the Week

Understanding Core Web Vitals

Core Web Vitals: in essence they are real-world user experience metrics when viewing a web site page.

1. Largest contentful paint (LCP)

2. Cumulative layout shift (CLS)

3. First input delay (FID)

They will be part of the ranking algorithm, starting in 2021 (sometime).

Think of it like this: how quickly can I interact with a web page.

See also Google’s blog post where they include stats on the benefits of meeting thresholds:

“The Largest Contentful Paint (LCP) metric measures when a page-to-page navigation appears complete to a user. We recommend sites aim to keep LCP under 2.5 seconds for 75% of their page loads.”

The metrics for your site are available in Google Search Console.

Shot 7: Insight of the Week

SEO Studies are just guesses

But even guesses can be useful.

A good reminder that studies of data about Google results can be deceptive. Lots of good examples of mistaken study findings in this article from Search Engine Journal.

Shot 8: HubSpot Report of the Week

HubSpot Marketing Email Health Report in BETA

Love the clear nature of this to take action on items that need attention.  In this case unsubscribe rate on one of our accounts!

Mouse Highlight Overlay

Shot 9: Resource of the Week

Bing Webmaster Tools WordPress Plugin

Bing have released a WordPress plugin for easily submitting site URLs to Bing.

Yes, Bing, you should be including it in your activities.

Shot 10: Quote of the Week

“Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one.” — Marcus Aurelius

Shot 11: Bonus Links of the Week

Success Resources on Hacker News

A wonderful thread from a few months ago on Hacker News.

Here’s the opening thread:

Yes, there are tons of resources but I’ll try to offer some simple tips.

1. Sales is a lot like golf. You can make it so complicated as to be impossible or you can simply walk up and hit the ball. I’ve been leading and building sales orgs for almost 20 years and my advice is to walk up and hit the ball.

2. Sales is about people and it’s about problem solving. It is not about solutions or technology or chemicals or lines of code or artichokes. It’s about people and it’s about solving problems.

3. People buy 4 things and 4 things only. Ever. Those 4 things are time, money, sex, and approval/peace of mind. If you try selling something other than those 4 things you will fail.

4. People buy aspirin always. They buy vitamins only occasionally and at unpredictable times. Sell aspirin.

5. I say in every talk I give: “all things being equal people buy from their friends. So make everything else equal then go make a lot of friends.”

6. Being valuable and useful is all you ever need to do to sell things. Help people out. Send interesting posts. Write birthday cards. Record videos sharing your ideas for growing their business. Introduce people who would benefit from knowing each other then get out of the way, expecting nothing in return. Do this consistently and authentically and people will find ways to give you money. I promise.

7. No one cares about your quota, your payroll, your opex, your burn rate, etc. No one. They care about the problem you are solving for them.

There is more than 100 trillion dollars in the global economy just waiting for you to breathe it in. Good luck.

Shot 12: Follow Us on the Socials

Connect with HubShots here: HubShots YouTube channel – HubShots Spotify channel – HubShots Facebook group – HubShots Twitter – HubShots Instagram – HubShots LinkedIn

Connect with Ian Jacob on LinkedIn and Craig Bailey on LinkedIn

HubShots is produced by Christopher Mottram from Podcastily.

Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

Episode 212: GPT-3, Core Web Vitals, HubSpot AI & HubSpot Workflow Delay until Event Actions

Full Transcript of the Episode

– Hi, everyone. Welcome to HubShots episode 212. In this episode, we talk about GPT-3, and no that’s not a fast car. Call web vitals, HubSpot AI, HubSpot delay until event workflow actions, plus drag and drop email gotcha. You’re listening to Asia Pacific’s number one HubSpot focus podcast, where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks, strategies, and features for growing your sales service and marketing results. My name is Ian Jakey from Search & Be Found, and with me is Craig Bailey from Xen Systems. How are you Craig?

– Really good, and like last episode, we have so much to get through this episode. So many cool things. We’re only gonna touch on them and scratch the surface, especially when we come up to our first one. But first you pulled out a great review that we got, and I’m sure we love to see those, don’t we?

– That’s right. So thank you to all of our listeners that take the time to leave us reviews. And I’m gonna read one out from a Weather Header here, and we know who you are and here it is. It says bringers of marketing goodness. I’m a longtime fan of Ian and Craig’s superb podcasts. Their format and content keeps me connected into the evolving space of digital marketing. Alongside expert HubSpot insight, their podcast concisely discusses, and provokes how we tackle holistic modern marketing, not just the digital trends. Thanks for your many years of contributing to the NZ marketing community. And how cool is that? Thanks, Dan.

– Yeah, thanks so much Dan. And look, we don’t do it often. We don’t do this thing often where we luxuriate and things like that. But frankly, it just made my day when I saw this. And thank you so much and well, if you wanna write another review, we value them greatly. Thank you so much, and thank you for recommending us to other people as well and sharing about the podcast. Thank you so much.

– All right, Craig, now GPT-3, it’s not a new car like I said before, what is this?

– Okay, I’m quickly gonna touch on the topic because it’s been getting a lot of excitement in the last week or two. We’re recording this on the 23rd of July. So in the last couple of weeks, it’s been getting a lot of interest on Twitter. And by the time you actually hear the show, it might’ve died down a bit. But I think it’s worth just quickly giving an overview of GPT-3. You’re gonna hear a lot of more of it in the coming year, and for marketers, this is just something for you to be aware of. You can’t actually use it yourself yet, I mean, unless you’re a beta user. But very quickly what it is, it’s the next iteration of an artificial intelligence, I’m gonna say algorithm or a API developed by OpenAI, which is a company. There’s a few people, Elon Musk, Sam Altman, I think Reid Hoffman’s in there, a bunch of others. Although I don’t think that Elon Musk is still, he might’ve resigned… Anyway, it doesn’t matter. A bunch of really smart people have formed it And their whole goal is to build artificial intelligence tools with the caveat that they protect it so it’s not abused. So that’s an undergirding principle behind it. Anyway, there’s been a few iterations, GPT1, GPT2, GPT-3 has a massive, massive data set that it’s put together. And it’s really just about forming connections between words and concepts. I’m not an expert in it. I don’t pretend to. And the part of me explaining it here is not because I’m an expert or I’ve used it, but just to highlight to marketers, you need to be following this trend. And if nothing else look at some of the show notes links that we’ve got where we point off to a wired article, some other good examples where people are using this to write content. In fact, one of the links I’ll send you to, I’m not gonna tell you, ’cause you have to read it first, halfway through you go, oh, actually this was written by this OpenAI GPT-3. So they put in a few topics and then the AI writes this content. And then this doesn’t just apply to content. It’s about sequences, people are using it in Excel, they’re using an all kinds of things to see, what’s when you forward a trend? I’ve just had a mind blank. I need the AI to help me

– Let me get the AI to help you at Craig.

– Extrapolate, sorry, thank you. Extrapolate, my goodness. flex, it’s only 7:30 at night and I still can’t… I’ve lost my…

– It’s your haircut, Craig. You’re losing lots of heat through the top of your head.

– You know what, I should do one of those special cognitive tests that a president of a certain country did recently. I wonder if I’d even pass, frankly, the way I’m going in this segment. But look, this is exciting stuff. And really marketers ought to be scared about this kind of thing, because it’s gonna put a lot of them out of work, the way it’s gonna write ads, it’s gonna write content, it’s gonna write briefs, it’s gonna look at trends, it’s gonna assimilate information, pull out insights. This is incredible. You’ve seen some of the demos Ian, what’s been your response?

– I’m pretty amazed. And I think you’re quite right in saying, Craig, we should all be concerned as marketers. And I think we’re seeing this already in certain tools that we use where this is happening with recommendations, with suggestions, and I’m like, wow. It’s like we’re having to do less and less of the things we used to do. But I recommend everybody watch that video that we have put in the show notes. All right, listeners onto our HubSpot marketing feature the week. And you know how we love workflows to automate stuff. And here is two little things that have been highlighted and this is the workflow delay action, and we mentioned this back in 2006, but now there is a delay until event happens. And Craig, what are those events that we can delay till?

– Yeah, so this is really cool. This is around having a workflow pause, perhaps indefinitely waiting for an event. And the three events are a page visited, a form submitted or a property value changed. And when you think about property value changed, you could basically change a property based on just about anything that you can think of. So as long as you can catch that and switch it. So this is gonna be exciting. I only saw this I think yesterday. So I haven’t actually played around to build out an example, just full disclosure. I don’t normally like to mention stuff in the show if I haven’t actually built anything with it yet. But one of the ones I’m looking at is really around onboarding. You can imagine onboarding sequences here, where you build a welcome, possibly a nurture, but wait for them to do something. You could even use this internally staff, make sure they visit a page, go and view something, pick something, property changes. Okay, next sent email in a sequence or create a task. All kinds of things could happen. So you might even… The possibilities are endless. So even just chatting about them, you think about some of them, people wanna nurture workflow, they come back, they wait until I visit another page that connects a task that goes off to sales and then something else triggers. So lots of opportunity here. And as we build these out, I almost wanna make a shot each show, which will be this episode’s delay until the event scenario shot. I just reckon there’s gonna be so many useful ways to use this new workflow action.

– Now, Craig, you hired a really interesting one was onboarding and checking to see if people had visited particular pages on your site. And I think that’s a really good example because I know for a fact, we always think about people externally to our businesses utilizing our site, but what about people internally to our businesses that actually know what’s going on when website updates are happening or pricing changes take place. Are they actually onboard or they’re looking at stuff? So this is actually a really good way to maybe trigger something off when that takes place. Now Craig, the HubSpot sales feature of the week. And we’ve discussed this in the last two episodes of the last episode.

– Yeah, they’re speaking of AI from GPT-3 in the opening instance. I wonder if HubSpot’s gonna embrace that as part of what you’re about to discuss further.

– That’s right. So listen, as we spoke about HubSpot AI being enabled on your inbox. Now the previous episode we turned it on, we had a little bit of a gotcha, especially if your account was already preexisting. Now on new accounts, I think when you connect it, it might automatically happen. But we’ve had it running and it got me excited because it’s saved inputting data like job title, addresses, telephone numbers, et cetera, into the contact record. And I’ve actually got a screenshot of where the HubSpot AI has intervened and filled out all of those details. And I tell you what I’ve been talking to all of our customers and clients and showing this to them, especially all the sales guys, and they’re cheering. They’re so excited. So I know it’s working and listeners, if you haven’t turned this on in your portal, just go and do it. It takes a whole of two minutes and get it started because I think you’ll find some benefits from there.

– The thing I really like about this, and you’ve got this in screenshot in the show notes, is the source. So you can tell which properties have actually been changed by HubSpot AI. ‘Cause that was my question. I was wondering, okay, great, it’s doing this stuff behind the scenes. How do you actually know what it’s done? And of course I shouldn’t have been concerned. It’s right there. It’s marked in the source and next to each property change.

– All right, Craig, onto the HubSpot stumper of the week.

– All right. This was originally gonna be in my gotcha, but I put it in the stumper because I’ve got another thing that’s in the gotcha. But I just wanted to remind or alert people to the HubSpot drag and drop email layouts versus modules confusion that sometimes you might run into. So this will make more sense when you’re seeing the screenshot. But if you’re in a drag and drop email, which by the way, you should be using drag and drop email. Can you even bear to use the previous emails, Ian? No. Drag and drop. Like everything is drag and drop. Even when we go back, you think, oh, I’ll just clone a previous newsletter from six months ago, ’cause the template was great. And like now I’m just building it again from scratch. Drag and drop it’s so much better. However, one of the gotchas or things that confused me, I have to say, and it’s embarrassing now that I look at it, but because I fell for it, perhaps someone else will as well is I was dragging on content modules onto a, it’s just a simple newsletter layout. And I dragged one module from a section below into a section above. Now what I hadn’t realized was, and here’s why you fall into it because you have single column layouts. I don’t know. Do you ever do any more than single column? Do you ever do two columns? No? Best practice is single column emails these days predominantly because a lot of mobile users and single column is the best way. I do see still people building double two column or even worse emails and look, just stop it. I think it’s a bad idea. But single column, you think, oh, I’ve got one layout. This is the trap you fall into. I’ve got one layout that I can use. No, you can drag many single layout items onto your email and the problem I fell into is I was dragging content items in, but I was dragging between layouts and they were changing formatting. And I didn’t realize. Here’s the thing, styling is set at the layout level, not the module level. So when you’ve got single column you think, oh, they’re all just single modules. Where’s the styling? Well, it’s done on the layout and you can just drag multiple layouts in. It’s really easy and obvious when you know and if you’re familiar with it, you be going, Craig, what is your problem? How did, how did you fall for this? If you’re not that familiar, then maybe that’s a helper to you. And thanks to Roslyn, you know what? When we were having our daily catch up today with the team, and I said, I’ve got this problem with drag and drop email layouts. What am I doing wrong? Roslyn, can you just at the end, can you just show me within 30 seconds? She just goes, “No, no, you just drag that layout on.” And I was like, oh, I knew it was simple. I’d been stuffing around for 15 minutes trying to sort it out. So there you go.

– All right, listeners now, here’s the HubSpot gotcha of the week. And this is HubSpot life cycle changes using a workflow. And just a reminder that if you move a lifecycle backwards from a sales qualified lead to a marketing qualified lead in the workflow, you must clear the lifecycle property first. And we’ve put an example of how to do that, but you can’t just set that property. So you’ve got to clear it and then update it in an action.

– So this has a bit of a gotcha that was on a client site. We found this, they had somehow accidentally sent a whole bunch of contacts to be evangelist lifecycle. And so then they went, oh yeah, we’ll just put them in a workflow and set them all back to marketing qualified lead. And of course it had failed. And that’s why it was, yep. You’ve got to clear it first if you’re gonna set it back. Can set it forwards easily, but you can’t set it back without clearing first.

– Is that the only one Craig or is there other ones that you’ve got to do the same?

– I think that might be the only one.

– Do you mean other fields?

– Yeah.

– Yeah. I think life cycles fields’ the only one I’m aware of that you have to clear before sending it back.

– Yeah, I think you’re right.

– I could be wrong and something might change.

– Listeners, let us know.

– All right, our marketing tip of the week, Craig. Now this is really interesting and we talked about understanding Core Web Vitals. And in essence, it’s really about understanding real world user experiences, experience metrics, essentially when viewing a website. And so now we’re gonna talk through the three key metrics that this encompasses and why this is important, right? So Craig, do you wanna explain what the three are and then we’ll talk a bit more about why it’s important for us to understand this going forward.

– Yeah, so this is right. So Core Web Vitals. You’re probably seeing it referred to a lot, but you haven’t actually taken the time to read about what it is. It’s actually really simple, but unfortunately they use a bunch of terms that make it sound complex and techie and oh, a bit of leave that to the tech team. It’s really simple and here is all you need to think of it. You need to think it’s how quickly can I interact with a web page? And that’s what these metrics are about, which we will go through in a second. But the reason it came up is ’cause a client of ours, obviously they’d been getting some advice, someone talking in their ear saying, oh, Google is gonna make user experience part of the ranking algorithm next year. And I’m like, yeah. Okay, so what are you specifically talking about? Because we do know part of that is already in such… And then, oh, are you talking about Core Web Vitals? I don’t know, there was lots of weird technical terms. It turns out it was Core Web Vitals. So if you’ve heard this term, it’s really simple and there’s three metrics and you can get at these in Google search console. And you should have a good Google search console. Do you wanna mention what they are and I can give a bit of context to each as we go through?

– Sure, the first one is called Largest Content for Paint or known as LCP. The second one is Cumulative Layout Shift, also known as CLS. And third is First Input Delay, which is the FID.

– Well look, if someone’s telling you about these, no wonder you’re thinking, oh, this is a techie thing. I’ve got no idea what this is talking about. So let me translate that from geek-speak to simple terms. Largest Content for Paint. Just think of that is how long does it take for the page to render. The second one Cumulative Layout Shift. It’s like, how long does it take for the page to size itself. So a simple example, you know how they have an image placeholder. Sometimes you’ll see the page loading and then suddenly a jumps when the image displays? That’s what they call it a layout shift. So that second one is just how long it sort of displays in the format it’s gonna stay displayed in. And First Input Delay, that’s really just how long before I can interact with the page. It’s loading. You’ve ever had that when you’re loading a page and you can’t scroll ’cause it’s still stuck there?

– Yes.

– That’s all it is. And the point of this is you can get measurements of these in Google search console for your site. Google themselves, and we’ve got a link to their blog has said, look, they’ve got benchmarks for each of these metrics. And if you keep your pages under these metrics, you’re less likely to have people leave. So for example, that first one, Largest Content for Paint, LCP, which is basically how long to show the page, they’re saying, if it’s under 2.5 seconds, then most people will stick around for that. Longer than that and they start leaving. So it’s just around how fast your site is really to work with.

– Which is what we’ve been talking about for a long time. Haven’t we Craig?

– There’s no great insight here that something’s changed. It’s really just about putting metrics to what we know is our general user experience of using websites.

– Correct. And I think it’s great that they have these thresholds, I guess, so people know where they stand. And so users, I would recommend you don’t be afraid. Actually start looking at these and see how you can improve them on your site and be aware that they are in search console already.

– And you know what Ian, what do we always say about hosting? That’s right.

– It’s sometimes good to get decent hosting. It improves all of these metrics.

– And as we said before, the number of clients where we come on there they’re scrimping to save. So they only spend nine bucks a month on hosting and then they send thousands of dollars worth of paid traffic to it and wonder why people are leaving?

– Doesn’t work.

– Yeah.

– Actually there’s an interesting stat I saw with one of my clients today. Had quite a high bounce rate. We switched their host and did some optimization. Their bounce rate has, the graph just looks like that significant. And I was like, oh, look at that massive reduction in bounce rate. Oh, because the page is actually loading quick and people are actually getting to what they want. So they’re less likely to leave. And I think it’s just a really clear demonstration of the simple things you can do to make a big difference to your site.

– Spot on.

– All right. Insight of the week, Craig. ACS studies are just guesses.

– I’ll summarize this in two sentences. It’s an article on Search Engine Journal where he breaks down all these SEOs So you know where people say, oh, we’ve analyzed billions of records and here’s what helps Google rankings. This article just says, it just highlights how bogus some of them are. And there’s good quiet. It’s like great for sales pitches, not great for statistical reality. So SEO studies are guesses. Sometimes the guesses can be useful though. So not disregarding them altogether, but check out the article for further details, if that’s of interest.

– All right, on to our HubSpot report or the week, Craig. And this is the Email Health Report, which is in beta. So users, if you have not sent enough emails, there’ll be nothing there. Or you’ve maybe like Craig, you send way too many emails, you might not see anything because it is in beta. But I was looking at this innovative screenshot in the show notes from a customer account and it was really nicely laid out. Really gives you an understanding of your overall health. And so it takes into some key health metric breakdowns. And what they’re looking at is open rate, click through rate, hard bounce rate, and unsubscribe rate. And it really nicely has like, it’s like a red, orange, green, and a little bar graph about where you are. So understanding at the red end it’s action needs to be taken in the middle it’s orange, work to be done, and at the end, it’s on track. So that’s the overall. And then below that it gives you the breakdowns and it tells you what you need to work on. So in the screenshot, I can see open rate, I’ve got a little bit of work to be done. It was at 22%, but it still says I need some work there. And you can see some details. Click through rate’s not bad. Hard bounce rate it says it’s on track, but my unsubscribe rate needs action. So really clearly understands what you need to work on. It’s really simple things for example. When you send an email and emails bounce, create simple lists, contact views for your sales team to follow up their contacts, to understand, hey, have they departed the company? Have they misspelled their email? Hopefully less of that happens with HubSpot AI, and maybe they moved on, so they don’t wanna hear from them, or maybe they have a new contact. So it’s a really good way to keep the engagement with sales and the customer happening longterm. And just looking at this all the time and making people understand that this is a regular process of keeping your house tidy, you should look at this after every time you send an email. Look at the metrics, do the followup, do the cleanup and keep it good because it will pay massive dividends in the end.

– Yeah, valuable reminder, Ian.

– All right, Craig, we’ve got our resource of the week.

– Just quickly in passing Bing webmaster tools have released a WordPress plugin. So you just put that on your site and that allows you to easily submit site URLs to Bing. And yes folks, you should be including Bing in your activities, especially in some industries and especially in some demographics. All the demographics, seniors tend to have the standard out of the box laptop but as Bing as the default search engine and also a lot of tech people I know actually as Bing. Not to be dismissed.

– Now, let’s head on to our quote of the week, and this is by Marcus Aurelius, and it says, “Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be, “be one.” Or a good woman, I say. All right, listeners, there are lots of good resources and Burness links in the show notes. So we encourage you to look at that. Please connect with us on LinkedIn and thank you to those who have connected with us LinkedIn. And even after they’ve connected, sent me a message saying, I meant to say that I listened to the podcast.

– Oh, can I just say, ’cause I actually went through LinkedIn today. It’s been probably a week or so since and I’m way behind. So I’m so sorry folks, but yes, a whole bunch of people are very friendly and very kind and then… And by the way, I’m not trying to sell you something. I really appreciate it and I will be responding to you. Thank you for that.

– So we do appreciate it. Please continue to connect with us. Tell us your stories. We love to hear from you guys. And if you need help, again, please, don’t be afraid to ask Craig or myself. We will be glad to help you or point you in the right direction. Well Craig, until next week–

– Catch you later, Ian.

– Hey there, thanks for listening to this episode of HotShots. To get the latest show notes, HubSpot tips and marketing resources, sign up at hubshots.com. You can also book time with us to help you grow better with HubSpot.

Episode 211 Bogus outreach emails, banning TikTok, PieSync tip

Episode 211: Bogus outreach emails, banning TikTok, PieSync tip

Welcome to HubShots Episode 211: Bogus outreach emails, banning TikTok, PieSync tip

This episode we discuss bogus outreach emails, banning TikTok and how to use PieSync to sync HubSpot customers into Xero.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/211-bogus-outreach-emails-banning-tiktok-piesync-tip

Welcome to HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Recorded: Thursday 16 July 2020 | Published: Friday 24 July 2020

Shot 1: Growth Thought of the Week

Bogus engagement emails

Sadly bogus outreach/engagement emails are picking up again – here’s a recent example:

bogus email outreach

If purports to be a forwarded on email from the CEO to an assistant, who forwards it on to me.

Apart from the giveaway that it is sent from ActiveCampaign and has a mass email unsubscribe link, and has no timestamp on the supposed initial email, simply checking the original email will show it is a single email – there’s no forwarding chain.

Plus Ian and Craig both received it at the same time (ie obviously automated).

We first mentioned this email outreach ‘hack’ back in Shot 7 of HubShots episode 133 in August 2018. Back then it was a much better example – much harder to confirm since they were actually single emails (ie not mass broadcast campaigns) – but even then we were dubious about it.

The issue is that it is dishonest, and whilst it might have a window of time where it works, ultimately it reflects badly on you as being spammy and disingenuous.

We are all for continually testing new ideas – but don’t let your integrity levels slide.

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Using PieSync to sync customer contacts in HubSpot over to Xero

This is a perfect use case for PieSync – simply add a contact in HubSpot and then have it automatically synced over to Xero. Here’s how we’ve set it up:

Create a custom contact property so you can mark which contacts to sync – eg we’ve created a few for triggering a number of syncing processes:

hubspot piesync 1

Add this to your Contact layout and then tick on for appropriate contacts eg:

hubspot piesync 2

Create an Active list based on the custom contact property:

hubspot piesync 4

Setup the PieSync connection

Set up a connection between HubSpot and Xero.

Only sync from HubSpot over to Xero (but for those contacts from HubSpot, keep the two-way sync)

hubspot piesync 5

The contact will be created as a Contact in Xero:

hubspot piesync 6

Note: the Xero record includes a link (right hand side) but we found this didn’t link to the right place – it links through to a contact view that isn’t correct.

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Automatically populate contact properties with HubSpot AI

So it looks like the following is turned on.

Settings 20

However you need to to enable Inbox Automation under Settings > Email Integrations


Settings 18


Shot 4: HubSpot Stumper of the Week

Revisiting the Forms Submissions report from Episode 207

In episode 207 we answered a question around how to display on a dashboard the list of popup form submissions.

We’ve had a follow up question from Martin about the form submissions that are included:

“Hey Guys. Quick question. It’s my understanding that the property “form submission” changes each time the contact fills out a new form. Does the report look at the property’s historical values or is it just showing the last value?”

Property Editor

Answer: The Form Submissions listing in the report comes from the list of forms (ie not from the Contact record) and thus includes all the form submissions ie there may be multiple form submissions per contact.

Shot 5: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

HubSpot Non Form Popup Form Stats

A reminder about reporting on non-form popup forms ie popup forms that simply link through, rather than having a form that is submitted.

We first chatted about this in episode 197 in Shot 2 and noted that reporting on ‘submissions’ is only related to form submits ie it doesn’t include clicking buttons on the popups.

At the time we noted that we expected this to come in time. It’s not yet in place, so Tara has created a Community request – please vote it up:

HubSpot Community > Popup Forms: Report on Non-Form Type Popup Forms

Example: the first popup has a form, the second doesn’t:

hubspot form submissions 1

Shot 6: Marketing Tip of the Week

How to automatically open links in Chrome

Sick of Chrome prompting you with a popup each time you click a zoom link?

Yep, us too – here’s how to fix it.

Shot 7: Insight of the Week

Facebook as a bad butcher

Long time listeners will recall how we compared Facebook to cigarettes back in episode 151 in February 2019 (ie last year).

Kara Swisher has an even better analogy in her New York Times opinion column last week. She compass Facebook to a bad butcher:

“Think about Facebook as a seller of meat products.

Most of the meat is produced by others, and some of the cuts are delicious and uncontaminated. But tainted meat — say, Trump steaks — also gets out the door in ever increasing amounts and without regulatory oversight.

The argument from the head butcher is this: People should be free to eat rotten hamburger, even if it wreaks havoc on their gastrointestinal tract, and the seller of the meat should not be the one to tell them which meat is good and which is bad (even though the butcher can tell in most cases).

Basically, the message is that you should find the truth through vomiting and — so sorry — maybe even death.

In this, Mr. Zuckerberg is serving up a rancid meal that he says he’s not comfortable cooking himself, even as his hands control every aspect of the operation. Which is why I say to him and every executive at Facebook: You cannot hold on to such enormous power and avoid responsibility when things get tough.”

This is a thought provoking comparison. Here’s the reason it is important for marketers: We need to be thoughtful about where we advertise and implement marketing. For many businesses, we have no option but to use Facebook as a channel. But that doesn’t mean we can’t be thoughtful about it.

If you’d asked me (Craig) a month ago about which side I was on, I would have had a strong answer. But after reading both sides I now realise it is a lot more complex and complicated. I can see both sides, but I actually don’t have a strong position anymore – I’m still thinking it through.

Takeaway: be informed, be thoughtful, aim for positive impact

Shot 8: HubShots Hidden Gem of the Week

Integrate Google Tag Manager into HubSpot

Note: this only applies to pages (web pages and landing pages):

Settings 19

Please note: you will still need to have the Google Tag Manager code for the Blog Templates!

Shot 9: Resource of the Week

Ben Thompson has an illuminating Stratechery post on the future of TikTok, indicating there is a good case to be made for it to be banned.

Worth reading, and also reviewing Benedict Evan’s presentation from February called The Shoulders of Giants where he highlights that the Next Big Thing will be: regulation.

We discussed this in detail back in episode 189 in Shot 9.

Shot 10: Quote of the Week

“Tactical sounds like: ‘What could we do to increase sales?’

Strategic sounds like: ‘Why are our sales numbers not twice as big? What is the core obstacle preventing the doubling of our revenue?’”

From chapter 23 of The Road Less Stupid by Keith Cunningham

Takeaway: Start your thinking with strategic questions

Shot 11: Follow Us on the Socials

Connect with HubShots here: HubShots YouTube channel – HubShots Spotify channel – HubShots Facebook group – HubShots Twitter – HubShots Instagram – HubShots LinkedIn

Connect with Ian Jacob on LinkedIn and Craig Bailey on LinkedIn

HubShots is produced by Christopher Mottram from Podcastily.

Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

Hey there, thanks for listening to this episode of HubShots.

To get the latest show notes, HubSpot tips and marketing resources, sign up at hubshots.com

You can also book time with us to help you grow better with HubSpot.

Episode 211 Bogus outreach emails, banning TikTok, PieSync tip

Full Transcript of HubShots Episode 211

– Hi, everyone, welcome to “HubShots” Episode 211. In this episode, we discuss bogus outreach emails, banning TikTok, and how to use PieSync to sync customers in to Xero. You’ll listen to Asia Pacific’s number one HubSpot Focus podcast, where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks and strategies for growing your sales, marketing and service results. My name is Ian Jacob, from Search & Be Found, and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN systems. How are you Craig?

– I’m really well and we have so much to get through in the show tonight. You know what, I was just wanting to alert our listeners, this will be a longer episode than normal. And it’s funny because remember a couple episodes ago, we said oh, we’re gonna try and do them in 15 minutes. And of course we failed after about a week or two ’cause I just yabber on too much. But we actually had listeners say to us, “Oh no, we like the longer format we don’t like the shorter format.” So back to kind of a longer format, but actually this might go over time please let us know whether you actually stick around to the end or whether we should to try and keep it just back to 22 minutes, which is where we usually end up around.

– Alright, so Growth Thought the Week, Craig, is about bogus engagement emails, and-

– Oh, my goodness. And we spoke about this back in Episode 133, wasn’t it? It’s like someone has rehashed this again, to bring it to light.

– Yeah, almost two years ago, we spoke about this with some bemusement at the time, I listened back to it. And we do have a link in the show note, shot seven of Episode 133. But I got this email and we were sharing it on our WhatsApp group, and just laughing about how… I’m hesitant to say dishonest although it borders on it. But it’s disingenuous, and I’ll just explain what it is. They’ve got this obviously an email template, and I think they’re using ActiveCampaign to send this out. And by the way, the person that sends this, I actually quite like him and I’ve actually bought some of his products. I was disappointing to say this. I’m actually a fan, he does really good stuff, but he’s purported to have sent on, so a message from the CEO, sent to his assistant and the assistant forwards that to me to say, “Oh, my CEO said, you know, you should check in, book in a time in the calendar.” And it’s just that, it just looked so bogus. You can tell for starters, it’s a messy email. Two, there’s not even any timing on the forward, supposedly from the CEO. So it’s obviously just a template that they’ve put in the placeholder tokens and three you and I received the exact same email. I’m just like, does this work on anyone? Maybe it does.

– You know what, Craig, I think it must work. I mean people, obviously, you know, are thinking, “Wow, he actually cares and I need to book a time in.” I mean, what’s the dead giveaway it says sent to you, it’s got the unsubscribe link, it’s got the details that looks like email marketing. So you kinda wonder how this happened. But here you go, folks, again, some of these old tactics coming to the surface, again.

– We’ve got a screenshot in the show notes. Check it out, have a laugh.

– And let us know if you have a laugh and send us a connection.

– Yeah.

– Book a time in Craig’s calendar, I say. It’s too funny, anyway, onto our HubSpot Marketing Feature of the week Craig, and this is using PieSync to sync customer contacts into HubSpot, from HubSpot to Xero and back again, keeping things in sync again. So now, listeners, if you didn’t listen to our previous episode about PieSync, please do. It’s got some really great stuff. And one of the things you should know, PieSync is integration platform as a service. So iPaas, and it keeps data in sync between the two. So here’s one use case that Craig has implemented. And I’d recommend that people do implement it because I’m sure a lot of listeners actually use HubSpot and Xero and use PieSync to push your contacts in there. So Craig, tell us what you’ve done.

– All right, well, I’ve got a few screenshots in the show notes right, I’ll just walk through we’ve just created a custom contact property which is just yes, no, should we sync this contact to Xero? So we want HubSpot to be a source of truth. Anyway, so the custom property… And then I’ve got a screenshot on a contact, how we just turn that on, yes. And that of course just fades into an active list. Then we go over to PieSync and we sync contacts from that active list over to Xero. Now it’s a two-way sync, which means if it changes in Xero it gets synced back to HubSpot, but just to be clear, it’s not syncing back all the records from Xero back, it’s only the HubSpot ones in this list. So it’s really nice, that’s one of the things I really like about PieSync. I’m a PieSync convert by the way, thanks to you Ian, you’ve convinced me although I still i have to say i hate their password, this login thing. Have I winced about that enough? Anyway, it’s all right.

– Well Craig, you can use the login with your HubSpot ID or Google?

– Yeah, but not for a clients, managing clients.

– This is the thing with clients, correct.

– It’s not scalable. It’s not agency friendly, anyway, I used about

– Not yet. that last episode, folks. So if you wanna hear me rant on like an angry old man, you can listen to that, but this is really cool. And we’re gonna be using PieSync more and more. I think it’s such a wonderful tool.

– Now listeners, I do wanna give Craig some kudos the way he set this up, he has nicely organized it. And he has created some custom properties to do the sync. And you can even have a look in the notes. You’ll see he’s nicely even placed it on the contact screen in a separate section called PieSync Options. And he’s got a few different ones because he’s gonna, he’s trying to sync this to possibly Teamwork and to Google Contacts. And last episode, I spoke about syncing Office 365 contacts into here. So you’ve just done it really nicely, Craig and I want to say well done.

– Thank you.

– All right, Craig, now on to our next show, which is our HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week.

– Oh my goodness, when you showed me this. I’m like, “Yes, turn this on.” Talk about, it’s got AI, it’s all about AI and it must be good. It is actually.

– It’s full of goodness, Craig, it’s always getting better, isn’t it? It’s all about growing better? Anyway, so this is an option and you… This is probably turned on by default in your portal. It’s under the contact and companies setting and you’ll see it says automatically capture contact detail from emails with HubSpot AI. And what it does, it reads people’s signatures from their contacts, and will populate fields in the contact record. Now, here’s the thing, it’s turned on by default. Now what you need to do is you need to enable inbox automation under the settings in email integrations. And what this does is actually tells the system the AI, that it can read your inbox and capture details to populate those records and even create follow up tasks suggestions, which I thought was really interesting. So as it’s scanning it, it’s probably looking for things that indicate that there is some sort of follow up that’s needed and it’s gonna obviously give you the option to have a task there. So it’s really cool. I had this turned on and I thought, Oh, yeah, this is good. I couldn’t see anything happening. And then as I read further, I discovered that you need to have this inbox automation, which is in beta currently. And we’ve put links to the articles. But well worth the try. And I’m gonna see what’s happening.

– I’m really excited about this. When you showed me this, I thought, “Oh, wow, it’s totally… I didn’t even expect this kind of thing from HubSpot.” So I say this, “Oh, wow, that’s a great idea. Of course, they should do this.” Just be aware, folks, they have access to your inbox. So I know that’s not comfortable, for some people. I’ve given up any any pretense that nothing is privacy in my inbox of Google, I will use G Suite. So look, just be mindful of that. It will, of course, look into your inbox and through your emails, but I’m fine with that. I’m not saying everyone should be fine with it. And it’s also I guess, yeah, you trade off that lack of privacy for utility.

– All right, Craig HubSpot Stumper of the Week, and this is revisiting the form submission reports from episode 207 and we answered a question around how to display on the dashboard, a list of pop-up form submissions. And we had a follow-up question from Martin. So thank you for connecting with us, Martin. So I’m gonna read what Martin wrote on the LinkedIn post. And he said, “Hi, guys, quick question. It is my understanding that the property form submission changes each time that contact fills out a new form. Does the report look at the property, historical values? Or is it just showing the last value?” Now, Martin, there is no form submission property in a contact record there is the number of form submissions and the number of unique forms submitted. And if someone’s up to that, of email, so it’s a-

– You know what, he’s probably thinking of last conversion.

– Yes, last conversion.

– Now it’ll confuse him.

– But that’s a page it’s not a form, right? It’ll show you the page that they can be added on. So the answer is the form submissions listing in the report that we spoke about comes from a list of forms, not contact records and includes all form submissions and a single customer may have actually submitted multiple forms. And that’s why you see that. I hope this is clear, you probably need to take a step back and go and have a look at the show notes just to have a look and understand what’s going on. Now, Craig, we’ve got our HubSpot Gotcha of the Week.

– All right, speaking about HubSpot forms, but in another situation. Remember back in Episode 197… I feel like we were referring to previous episodes a lot this episode. So internal linking for the win there. But remember, we spoke about this in 197 when HubSpot added this new feature, which is great, by the way, where pop up forms don’t necessarily have to have a form.

– Correct.

– So you can just have this pop-up where you click and it’s just a button, it might go to a page or download for example. So it’s actually, it’s funny enough they call them, like HubSpot Non-form Pop-up Forms, which is interesting in itself. Anyway, as we noted at the time, when you see a list of those forms the submissions for these non-form pop-up forms will of course be Xero. And that’s a bit of a gotcha so just wanted to remind listeners about that. We’ve got a screenshot so you can see what we’re talking about. More importantly though, thanks to Tara she’s said, “Look, we’ve gotta get this fixed.” And we kind of expected it to be fixed by now. They would have changed the reporting. Possibly put a few more columns in that layout, but not yet. So Todd has created a community request please go and vote it up. I’m sure it’s on the roadmap. I’m sure they’ve got this in the works but this might just prompt it.

– But Craig, you know, I still love pop-up forms.

– Ah, I love them.

– Just the flexibility to target now is fantastic, and-

– Oh hide your targeting is a kill. Hey, we should link back to an episode we talked about that as well, it’s such a good feature.

– Alright, folks onto our Marketing Tip of the Week. And I know everybody and most people that listen to us would probably use Zoom. And you’ve probably seen every time you click on a Zoom meeting link, and it opens in Chrome, you get this pop up that says, “Do you wanna open Zoom?” And after a while, it gets really annoying. Anyway, thanks to Craig, he’s discovered a way to stop that from happening, if you’ve got a Mac. So follow the link and you can fix it.

– Yeah, there is a similar fix for Windows as well, just by the way to set some context around this. This changed in Chrome, I think 77 or 76, up until 75 and before you had this little option where you could tick to not be prompted each time they took that away for some reason. This is a way to get that back and fix it so you don’t get this annoying prompts. And it’s amazing how annoying these little pieces of friction are. And I remember when I showed you today I said, “Oh you know what I can fix that.” Yeah, it’s like the best news we’ve heard all day was from me when I found out as well, it’s the little things, I mean, isn’t it?

– That’s right, Craig. Now, listeners our Insight of the Week, and this is a cracker, let me give some context. We’ve called at Facebook as a “Bad Butcher”. And longtime listeners would actually recall we compared Facebook to cigarettes back in Episode 151 and that was in February of 2019. One of the podcasts we liked listening to which is called Craig?

– “Pivot.”

– That’s right, with Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway. And she’s used in her New York Times Opinion Column. She’s used a great analogy as Facebook as a “Bad Butcher.” Now, Craig, I’m gonna get you to read this because I think people have to hear this because one thing I really enjoyed was when you kinda picture or imagine what this is, and she’s hooked it really well to something that we would all potentially experience in our lives. It just makes it so real.

– She’s a storyteller. But by the way, I’ll set the context. This is around how Facebook is attempting to absolve themselves of any responsibility in looking after the content and potentially hate speech, et cetera, that is on their platform. And they or Mark Zuckerberg attempts to say, “Look, it’s not his responsibility.” Here’s what Kara Swisher says she says, “Think about Facebook as a seller of meat products. Most of the meat is produced by others and some of the cuts are delicious and uncontaminated, but tainted meat say, Trump steaks,” and I stick there, “also gets out the door in ever increasing amounts and without regulatory oversight. The argument from the head butcher i.e. Mark Zuckerberg is, ‘People should be free to eat rotten hamburger even if it wreaks havoc on their gastrointestinal tract, and the seller of the meat should not be the one to tell them which meat is good and which is bad. Even though the butcher can tell in most cases.’ Basically the message is,” she says, “That you should find the truth through vomiting and maybe even death.” “In this, Mr. Zuckerberg,” and I’m still quoting from her article, “is serving up a rancid meal. That he says he’s not comfortable cooking himself, even as his hands control every aspect of the operation. Which is why I say to him and every executive at Facebook, you cannot hold on to such enormous power and avoid responsibility, when things get tough.” End of quote. Your silence speaks volumes there Ian. It’s such a compelling analogy, isn’t it? And so simplistic in a way, overly simplistic. I wanted to make a comment about this because if you’d asked my view about this, say a month or two ago, I would have had a strong answer. However, I guess what I’ve realized and I won’t actually say what my view is now. ‘Cause that’s not the point. But the point is, my view is different and also it’s almost like I don’t have a view because I realize how complex the situation is. And so my takeaway, or my, I guess what I’m hoping and what the reason we’ve included in the show notes, in the show today, is because we need to be informed, but fought for and aiming for positive impact. And it’s very easy with this article of hers, which I think is fantastic representation. To be over simplistic and say, “Well, it’s obviously wrong.” And it’s okay to say that. But make sure you’ve thought it through fully. And I am actually at the point where I can see both sides. I won’t say which side I’m leaning on now. But I do hope listeners actually take this and think it through. It actually should be in, I guess, part of our decision. Should we be advertising on Facebook, for many businesses, you have no choice but to, but some have boycotted as we’d be aware of recently, but at least be thoughtful, that’s my request. And I guess, hopefully, we’re leading by example, be thoughtful marketers.

– All right onto our HubSpot Hidden Gem of the Week, Craig and this is my little discovery for this week is that you can now integrate Google Tag Manager into HubSpot. And it’s an option on the integrations tab within the settings and website. Now, here’s the caveat, you will still need to have Google Tag Manager Code for your blog templates like you did before. This applies to page and landing templates. So if you’re using HubSpot CMS, and you using MarketingPro, for example, that has landing pages in it, actually even starter, this is how you would do this.

– I think this is really good. I was so pleased when you showed me this today. And yeah, just to reiterate your point there. When you’re adding Google Analytics or Google Tag Manager in HubSpot, you’ve gotta do it in two places. If you’re using the blog as well put it in the blog template and in this case, put it on the pages. So it is a gotcha and we were going through portals today and there’s even some clients who got missed. So it could be a Gotcha of the Week but I’m really kinda seeing this… I’d love to see this just integrated straight through the blogs as well. I don’t see why we have to put it in two spots. Maybe that’s legacy, why do you think that is? Do you think that they’ll actually update that in time, Ian?

– I think they will Craig, as everything merges together. All right, so let’s talk about our Resource of the Week, Craig? And this is from Ben Thompson, who we speak about quite a bit. And he’s got a really interesting post about the future of TikTok and this is on Stratechery, indicating there’s a good case that can be made for it to be banned. And I was fascinated when you put this in the notes. And I was reading it and I was like, “Wow!”

– This is mandatory reading, I think for anyone in marketing and thinking about TikTok as we are, as you know, I’ve been addicted to TikTok lately. You’d be proud of me Ian, I actually deleted TikTok from my phone last week, but not because of security issues, which is what Ben’s article is referring to. I just deleted it ’cause I was wasting so much time. It’s such a good app, it’s so addictive, it’s so well done. It’s so addictive, the algorithm is so good, I just had to delete it because as you know, I’m not up, I’m hardly ever on Facebook or any of the other social networks, Instagram very rarely on LinkedIn sorry listeners for how long it takes for me to reply, but oh, TikTok just had me hooked. But his post is around the security aspects of TikTok. He actually looks into the China relationship. He actually has a really good point about China versus the West in terms of ideology, and where both are headed. I think it’s really compelling reading, you should read that. What’s also flows on from this and in fact, ’cause you know, there has been moments about America, the US might ban it and they might not and then Amazon did, and then they rolled it back. And of course, Walmart said, “No, it’s banned on Walmart, business devices.” And things like that, follow on phone. Remember, we talked about Benedict Evans back in 189,

– Yes.

– And his presentation on the next big thing, and the next big thing, Regulation, and this is what we’re heading to, and I think combine those two articles, read them and view them. And you get a sense of how technology is moving. And the future is gonna be very interesting place.

– You know what was funny, Craig, when you put that into the show notes, and I was, I got a message from a friend earlier today. And what was really interesting on Mumbrella, there was an ad… A write up about this, about TikTok running ads. I’m just looking at it while I’m talking to you listeners. And it says, “Don’t make TikTok a political football.” And it gives you the reasons why people need to trust them. And so here we are, listeners, them, you know, protecting their position. So I think it’s really important for us as business owners as marketers, to understand what’s going on with the tools and the platforms that we use and the impact it has on different people and nations essentially. So I would encourage you all if you’re driving or riding on the beach, and listening to us, when you get back to your desk, go back and check out the show notes and actually have a read of this article. All right, Craig, onto our Quote of the Week.

– This is advice from a book called “The Road Less Stupid”. I think we’ve mentioned this a few times on the show before by Keith Cunningham, wonderful business advice. He’s talking about strategy, and why you should start your thinking with strategic questions. He says, “Tactical sounds like, ‘What could we do to increase sales?’ Whereas strategic sounds like, ‘Why are our sales numbers not twice as big? What is the core obstacle preventing the doubling of our revenue?'” End of quote. Hopefully, that’s thought provoking. It’s just a change of perspective on how you start your thinking.

– Listeners, thank you for listening to this episode. Please follow us on the socials. Connect with us on LinkedIn. Please tell us that you listen to this show and thank you to those who have connected with us over the last week. It has been a great pleasure to connect with you guys. And again, if you need help with anything, please don’t feel afraid to reach out to us. Go to the website, complete a form. Or you can reach out via LinkedIn to Craig and myself. Craig Until next week?

– Catch you later Ian.

– Hey there thanks for listening to this episode of HubShots. To get the latest show notes, HubSpot tips and resources sign up at hubshots.com. You can also book time with us to help you grow better with HubSpot.

Episode 210 PieSync - the good, the bad, and the snugly

Episode 210: PieSync – the good, the bad, and the snugly

Welcome to HubShots Episode 210: PieSync – the good, the bad, and the snugly

This episode we discuss paying for content, plus dig into PieSync.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/episode-210-piesync-the-good-the-bad-and-the-snugly

Welcome to HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Recorded: Thursday 09 July 2020 | Published: Friday 17 July 2020

Shot 1: Growth Thought of the Week

Last episode we were chatting about the rise of trust in reputable news organisations. And how that had also led to a rise in email newsletter consumption from those same trusted sources.

As part of that discussion, we mentioned that there are some newsletters that we always read, and in some cases happily pay for. Below is a list of some of those newsletters and sites.

The newsletters we actually read:

News that Craig pays for

Which newsletters do you actually read? And what news/content do you happily pay for?

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week


PieSync is iPaaS (Integration Platform as a Service)

piesync 416


Difference between Zapier and PieSync:

Screenshot 9 7 20  3 53 pm

iPaaS gives you the flexibility to scale and grow better.

PieSync Fundamentals   Why PieSync Slides pdf  page 26 of 40

Use cases

  • Continuous syncing of contacts and companies
  • Syncing a subset of HubSpot contacts (eg key customers) over to my Google contacts
  • Syncing over customers to Xero

Good things

  • Sync continuously, compared to Zapier which is triggered
  • Very good interface and layout of connections and actions
  • Centralised billing with Teams
  • Very simple to create filtered sync

Bad things

  • Login process
  • Can’t share connections between team members
  • Contacts and companies only: No deals, tickets, other objects yet

Potential workarounds

  • Chat with the team – potentially organise access to client accounts on a case by case basis if you are a Certified Partner

Next steps: Get PieSync Certified over on HubSpot Academy and become a PieSync Partner.

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Syncing Office 365 and HubSpot

Keeping contacts in sync between Office 365 and HubSpot using PieSync

Shot 4: HubSpot Absorbing of the Week

PieSync Dogfooding

PieSync is using PieSync to keep their own stack all synchronised – they are their own best customer.

They are a good example of HubSpot letting an acquisition keep their own processes and slowly transition over to the HubSpot way of doing things.

Interesting tidbit: New connectors take almost a year to develop (46 weeks)

Shot 5: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

Messenger Contacts In HubSpot without Emails

Found that a Messenger chat in conversations inbox with a known contact could not associate itself. Why is that happening?  It is due to the Facebook API, whereby if the contact had signed up using their phone number for Facebook, and not their Email Address, HubSpot is unable to create the association to the email-address field existing in HubSpot.

As such, you’d need to merge the 2 contacts after the fact.

Shot 6: Marketing Tip of the Week

Review your traffic sources

Review your audiences – where is your traffic coming from?

Ian was digging into traffic data for a client and found that YouTube was sending a bunch of traffic. Digging into YouTube analytics highlighted that a single video was driving the bulk of the traffic.

The video was a simple video covering tradie workwear. The key realisation being that tradies don’t want to read a blog post about the product, they want to see a video of how it works.

Takeaway: they go to YouTube to learn more about products that they can buy for their use.

Shot 7: Insight of the Week

Campaign targeting versus Targeting for campaigns

If you are planning out enterprise campaigns it can be easy to focus on particular product/service campaigns, or industry verticals etc. This is normal. However, it is important to keep in mind the ideal audiences (personas) at the start of the process. As opposed to getting to the campaign implementation and then considering the targeting.

It’s about getting the balance of Persona versus Topic focus right.

One quick tactical way to keep ideas fresh is to prepare a simple Personas versus Pain Points matrix:

  Pain Point 1 Pain Point 2 Pain Point 3
Persona 1 Video Blog post  
Persona 2 Checklist Ebook  
Persona 3      

Have a list of your key personas, and then cross reference that with pain points. For each section, highlight the best content format to test eg:

  • For a ‘how to’ pain point, consider video
  • For a ‘what’s the process’ pain point, consider a checklist
  • For a ‘help me understand’ pain point, consider a blog post
  • For a ‘in depth understanding required’ pain point, consider and ebook

Use these to test out new content ideas.

Keep in mind how this also fits into an overarching ABM approach, where you’ll have different stakeholders and decision makers involved. Each will have different pain points and different personas.

A must-do: ABM lesson on HubSpot Academy

Shot 8: Resource of the Week

The Perfect B2B Website Service Page

A useful post from Andy at Orbit Media on how to plan out a service page on your website.

checklist anatomy service page

In particular notice the mix of short and long sections, confidence items and visuals.

Shot 9: Quote of the Week

“Groups search for consensus, Individuals search for truth”

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week

Google updates ‘How Google Search Works’

Google has updated their own knowledge base article on how Google works, you can read it here.

Barry Schwartz notes the sections that have changed in his article on Search Engine Roundtable.

Of interest might be this section on what you need to do to get your site crawled and indexed by Google:

“For smaller sites (less than 1,000 pages), making Google aware of only your homepage is all you need, provided that Google can reach all your other pages by following a path of links that start from your homepage.”

Shot 11: Follow Us on the Socials

Connect with HubShots here: HubShots YouTube channel – HubShots Spotify channel – HubShots Facebook group – HubShots Twitter – HubShots Instagram – HubShots LinkedIn

Connect with Ian Jacob on LinkedIn and Craig Bailey on LinkedIn

HubShots is produced by Christopher Mottram from Podcastily.

Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

Episode 210 PieSync - the good, the bad, and the snugly

Full Transcript of the Episode

– Hi everyone, welcome to HubShots episode 210. In this episode we discuss paying for content plus we dig into HubSpot PieSync. You’ll listen to Asia Pacific’s number one HubSpot focus podcast where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks and strategies for growing your sales, marketing and service results. My name is Ian Jack from Search and Refer and with me is Craig Belly from Zen Systems. How are you, Craig?

– I’m well. Ian and I’m feeling well read. You’ll remember last episode, we talked about the fact that we both subscribe to a few newsletters. That’s actually great as opposed to all hundreds of newsletters we’ve subscribed to but never read and also we actually pay for some content. So in our growth thought, let’s chat through some of the newsletters that we actually read in case our listeners would also be interested.

– That’s right. So, the first one is Marketing Brew and Morning Brew, should I say and they also have another one called Retail Brew. So I’m actually subscribed to all of those and I read them pretty much daily. Now some of them like Retail Brew, for example just comes once a week but Morning brew and Marketing brew is a daily newsletter.

– That’s right. I also read Mark Manson’s newsletter, now he’s not a marketer as such, although he’s a really good marketer. It’s kinda like Tim Ferriss and . Are they marketers, no but they’re really good at marketing. I really like Mark Manson. I think you read the CB Insights as well, don’t you?

– I do and we’ve got another one called Stacked Marketer, go the extra.

– In addition to these I just mentioned, I actually pay for news and so there’s some news that as I actually pay for, one of them is search news you can use by Marie Haynes. I think I pay $18 or $20 a month for that and the value it provides is a weekly newsletter, where she gives a roundup of all things SEO. And in 20 minutes or half an hour, I can be on top of everything that’s happened, so she trolls Twitter and Reddit threads and all those kind of things, pulls it all together. That’s very valuable to me to get that once a week and I stay informed. I also read Stratechary, Tech Bound and a few others. Are there any other? Do you actually pay for any news, Ian?

– To be honest Craig, no I don’t.

– Fair enough.

– But you know what, I think what you’ve highlighted a really good point. As time goes on and people’s inboxes get full, In saying that I don’t pay for content in that particular manner, I’m a part of masterminds that specialize in say, paid advertising or marketing and Google ads. And I’m a part of that and I pay for that on a monthly basis because again, like you said, there are people in there that are testing and doing things on a daily basis. And they on a monthly basis, provide insight into stuff that I might not necessary come across. So, I will actually learn from that, and then consume information that way. So it’s a bit different but kind of in the same manner.

– You’re basically happy to save time, ‘time is money’ as they say. Maybe it’s just ’cause I’m getting old, Ian. I’m happy to pay.

– We’re both getting old, Craig. Try to pull back some of that youth. Anyway, I have some marketing feature of the week. So Craig, firstly, well done for being one of the one and only PieSync certified partners in Australia, Craig.

– Yeah, well, thank you for putting me on to this. And that’s right. We’re going to talk about PieSync, today in a little bit of depth and we did cover this many episodes ago when it was first announced, I think last November. But you put me on to this recently, you reminded me of this Ian because I think you’re the first certified partner in Australia passing certification. And perhaps that’s news to people, they might not even realize this PieSync certification but we’ve got a link to it in the show notes. And really useful, this really was a useful way to learn about the platform and open my eyes and let’s chat about PieSync.

– That’s right. So listeners, PieSync is what you would call integration platform as a service or also known as I-PASS. Don’t they just love their acronyms? And really the difference is you might be thinking, hey, I know about Zapier, why would I use PieSync? So one of the really key differentiators between PieSync and Zapier is Zapier is trigger based. So something’s gotta take place for you to trigger an action that takes place beyond that. PieSync is a synchronization platform. So that’s where data is synced between the two platforms and the simplest manner of this would be syncing of contact data between two different platforms like HubSpot and Outlook for example. Of course, we couldn’t forget in there, on the in some of the training we had was that it says that I-PASS gives you the flexibility to scale and grow better.

– But that’s right. This was a key difference that’s worth while just repeating so that people don’t miss it. You’ve just covered it. But I thought, especially when it was first announced, I thought, PieSync that’s just HubSpot version of Zapier. Why would I use it? And you’ve highlighted it there. It’s synchronization not trigger based. So the key point, I know you just said this but I wanna repeat it for the listeners so that’s really clear because they’re two different products. And later on in the show, we’re actually gonna talk about PieSync ’cause you had a chat with one of the PieSync guys. And they still use Zapier for some of their things, where PieSync is not a fit. And in other cases, PieSync is a benefit. So it’s around the synchronization. So you’ve got two contacts, maybe a contact in Google Contacts, and a contact in HubSpot. That’s a really good example. You just want to keep them in sync. I change it on my phone, it goes back. I change it on HubSpot because now you don’t want to use Zapier for that because then you’ve got a trigger on something changing or on the specific field off digit changes, how do I catch it whereas PieSync is just like, okay, it’s made the connection, I’ll just make sure every couple of minutes they’re synced. It’s really powerful. So let’s actually go on to some of those use cases then.

– Okay, so the first one I said was syncing contacts and companies and you might do this across Office 365. You might do this across your Apple account because if you’re using Apple, you might use do it across Google. So these are the most common ones and actually talking to the PieSync guys, the most common syncs is actually between Google and Office 365. That’s the most common ones that are being utilized with PieSync and next one could be syncing a subset of HubSpot contacts. So key customers into Google Contacts because you can actually set the criteria you want to have sync.

– This is actually what I’m setting up at the moment. So I don’t want all our contacts from HubSpot. We’ve got 70,000 in our HubSpot portal. I don’t want all of them going over to Google Contacts and ending up in my phone but I do just want our key customers, so that if there’s a phone number update or anything like that, it’s synced between the two. And also, sometimes I’m on the phone and they’ll call me and I’ll say,” Ah, new number I didn’t recognize,” or add to existing contact, bang that goes in. Ah, synced back, it’s really nice.

– And here’s another one that people don’t wanna use. It’s syncing your customers from HubSpot over to Xero. So save that time of when you’re raising invoices to actually go. Okay, well, they become a customer, their contacts get synced then all that finance has to do is raise the invoice.

– This is such a pain point for us because HubSpot is our source of truth and then every time, that’s just kinda custom. Okay, someone’s gonna go and set that up in Xero. So this is gonna save us a lot of time. What’s so crazy about this is that Xero created an integration with HubSpot. Have you seen this in the app market?

– Yes.

– But it syncs from Xero over to HubSpot and not the other way. It’s like, “Come on, why?” Who on earth would first put it into Xero to then sync to HubSpot? Surely it will go the other way or maybe that’s just our case. But yeah, let’s talk about some of the good things.

– That’s right. So this is continuous thinking versus compared to Zapier that’s trigger based.

– Also the interface you know, I really like the PieSync interface now that I’ve got into it and just the way they’ve laid it out, you have a connection and then you can very easily see the filters on them, all on one page. And then the field mappings, can create your own field mapping. It’s very slick to use. Whereas Zapier, as you would know, it’s very kind of step one, step two and then you try and do something. One thing Zapier does have on some of their higher tiers that we use is calculated values. I don’t think PieSync has that but that’s that’s a bit of an outlier. We don’t use that a lot I have to say.

– Then another good thing it has is the centralized billing routines. So that’s a really good thing.

– I really like this. You can have a team of people in your account and just one centralized billing. Also, the simplicity to create these filtered syncs exactly about that use case we were talking before, from HubSpot to Google Contacts, any subset, any key customers. So they’re the good things. However, I think there’s some bad things, Ian. I know you don’t feel as strongly about this as me. So I’m gonna have a little bit of a rant and you’re kinda like, “Get over yourself, Craig” but…

– So I’ll let you take away the first one, Craig. The one that really greets you the most.

– This annoys me so much and look, credit to PieSync because I did chat with them and I’ve been going back and forth with one of the guys there. And they’ve been very nice about it. And does seem like I’m an unusual case but their login process. We talked about this back in our episode back in November, when it was first announced, this drives me nuts. They have this passwordless login. When where you got to log in you put in your email address, and then it emails you a code. Then you then have to go to your email, find it and put the code in into login. Now that’s fine if it’s just you. But we often look after accounts, especially with Zapier for our clients. So every single one of our clients has a Zapier account and then give us the login. We sorted LastPass securely so we can share it amongst our team to specific people as they need it. It’s all protected yet, we can’t even do that with PieSync ’cause then we have to go to the client, login or get this code. It’s just ridiculous and I just don’t understand it. And the other thing is we mentioned in the good things above that they’ve got this centralized billing. That’s great, I really like it. However, you can’t share connections between team members. So it’s almost like that passwordless login and can’t share connections with, it’s almost like they combative because if you could share connections between team members, then the passwordless login wouldn’t bother me. It’s like, okay, well I’ve got my login into the team account or share this connection. Okay, I can look after it, but you can’t. It’s just like so frustrating. I will say that those connections are purpose and it’s kinda good ’cause some people, I might connect to Xero, I might not want other people in team doing that.

– Then in saying that, Craig is that for example, you’re syncing contacts between HubSpot and let’s say Office 365 account. You have to connect to that person’s profile in 365. So you can kind of understand in that perspective, when syncing contacts it needs to be on a per user basis.

– Look, I agree with that and I’m not saying all connections should be shared but I’d like the option to share some connections between team members and maybe that’ll come I don’t know. And the thing is, and what we’ve got as a next step for PieSync is they’ve got this new PieSync certification, which we chatted about at the start of this segment, go and do it. But the fact that they’re building out a partner program, well to me, it means perhaps they are focusing more on teams than individuals. So maybe they’ll improve some of those login processes.

– And the other thing you can’t do with PieSync currently is, it only syncs contacts and companies, not deals, tickets and other objects. So just be aware of that. When you think,” I can go and sync everything.” No, that’s not the case. It’s really contacts and companies.

– Anything with an email address, pretty much. That’s what you wanna think about. It’s very focused around email addresses and–

– Correct.

– And that’s the gap they fit. So look, I’ve had a little bit of a rant there. However, I am a convert to this and I think we’re gonna be setting up PieSync accounts for all our clients as well. Just all the simple things like HubSpot to Mailchimp making that better or MailerLite, which is what we use for a number of clients as well and it syncs everything. So this is not just a trigger on an action, it’s syncing the client and things like unsubscribes, all of that. It’s just gonna keep it all in place. Yeah, you’ve, you’ve convinced me in PieSync. I’m a convert.

– Excellent. I would encourage people just to understand this better, do the PieSync certification. And one of the things obviously, if you are implementing this for others and you want to partner with PieSync, you can do that. And when you do that, you can organize access to client accounts with their permission on a case by case basis. So just be aware that that is available if you are a PieSync certified partner. All right, Craig, and I thought leading on from this to the HubSpot sales feature of the week. And this is something that we’ve just sold for not a potential customer of ours is that they wanted to have a centralized place where they have all of their contacts and so they have a lot of salespeople on the road and so they wanted to make sure that the contacts that were in HubSpot went into Office 365. And so we’ve actually set up PieSync to make sure that there’s context sync between the two. So when they’re on the road and they make a call, they’ve actually got the right details and that was actually relatively quick to set up but also works really well. So we’re actually seeing that data being synced across the two systems. So it’s a great way for sales to have all the data they need to make the calls that they need in a timely fashion. All right now, Craig, we’re gonna talk about the HubSpot absorption of the week.

– And this is PieSync DocuSign, which I’ve found interesting ’cause you’ve chatted with them and they highlighted it. First of all, they’re not an American company, two, they’re not a HubSpot company so they weren’t using HubSpot for the CRM and perhaps still aren’t. They weren’t using HubSpot meetings, for example. So even after I connected they sent me a link, join a chat. Here’s a Calendly link. So what’s really interesting about that they are moving over but HubSpot, I’ve really liked this. They haven’t kinda come inside, stopped doing everything you’re doing. Keep doing it your way. And one of the things that they’ve highlighted is while they use PieSync to sync a whole lot of their tools together, they also use Zapier, I think as far as you mentioned, for some of the things ’cause it’s a benefit for some people. They are just a perfect example of a company using their own product to run their own business. And with that in mind, it’s probably why the tool is so good and so easy to use.

– Correct, and I think they’ve taken a very similar approach to HubSpot, where they have built the tool because they had a need for it to connect systems together and keep data in sync and you see how HubSpot has done it over the years, how they’ve built CRM because they wanted a CRM that worked for them. And even the marketing tools, like you can just see, I think there’s a similar idea of culture there. That’s present, so that’s a really interesting thing. Now here’s a really interesting fact I picked up from my discussion with them because when you’re using PieSync or use Zapier, you think, “Wow, this is so good, it’s so quick, “I can get something off and running really quickly.” Behind the scenes to make this work really well, he was saying or they were mentioning to me a connector can take around 46 weeks to build, design, develop, do the requirements gathering. They said a lot of the time it’s actually not on the HubSpot side, it’s the other systems that they want to connect to that don’t have properly defined API’s or the connectors are not to the same standard as what HubSpot provides. Therefore, this is where a lot of the time gets taken in, in defining what’s going to move, how it should move, how often it should move and to get that right so it works seamlessly and that is one of the biggest things that they need to get right because there’s an initial sync that takes place, so establishing consistency. And then there is the ongoing syncing that takes place. So these are things that they need to get right and it’s very easy for us in our business to go, why isn’t that working, or it shouldn’t be that hard but really to make it that easy for us, it is that hard. And so I take my hat’s off to them because I know for a fact and you know. We have worked in software and sometimes things to make them work really well actually takes a lot of effort in the background to make that happen and make it seem simple. Alright people, now here’s our HubSpot Gotcha of the week. Now for those of you who are using Messenger, Facebook Messenger in HubSpot, you’ve gotta connect to the conversation’s inbox. Here’s a little gotcha. This week, I was doing it. I have connected it, testing it out with one of our customers and I thought, okay, I’m gonna test this out. So just tell them just message me. So I know that they exist in our CRM. Anyway, they started messaging me and this is going into conversations inbox, having a conversation. I’m looking at the contact. I’m like, yes, recognize contact. I’m like, I can’t associate this with the customer in my data in CRM and I didn’t understand why I tried to update it, I couldn’t. Anyway, I then finished the conversation and then I went to HubSpot support and I said, “Look, why is this happening? “Why have I got a new contact with the person’s name, “origination point being Messenger “and why can’t I associate it “with my existing customer that’s already in there?” This is what happened. They said it’s due to the Facebook API where the contact had signed up using their phone number for Facebook and not their email address. So HubSpot was unable to associate the email address field that existed in HubSpot. So essentially, create another contact. So in this scenario, what you needed to do was merge the two contacts together after the conversation and then you’ll have everything in the same contact but there’s a gotcha that I never knew about.

– So can I just check, you were able to tell that they wee the same based on their name? You happen to know their name?

– Correct.

– Yep, that makes sense. We actually have lots of Facebook Messenger contacts in and none of them have email addresses so, I didn’t even know you could do this and the thought of merging them I think that’s, I hadn’t even thought of that. I just assumed I would never get it. So that’s really good to know but let’s say they had signed up with an email address on Facebook, does that actually come through? How does that actually come through so that you can sync it?

– Apparently so–

– Or connected?

– No, I don’t know but that is what I’ve been told and maybe we need to test that.

– Okay, good one.

– There you go. I was actually about to delete the, I was thinking of deleting the contact of the association but actually then realized I should, like as HubSpot said was merge the two post the conversation.

– Did they come up in the merge list as suggested merge items that perhaps what users ?

– You know what? Maybe at the, ’cause I only tried it out this week, so that system I think runs on Sunday night when we get that. At least I’ll probably wait and I’ll see whether next Monday or Sunday I’ll get a notification saying that there’s a potentially duplicate there. All right, marketing tip of the week, Craig. Now, this is something that we were talking about this today is about reviewing our traffic sources and these are conversations we have with clients to understand where is our traffic coming from? And why I did this was, I was reviewing some data of a customer we’re helping and these guys sell work wear and as I was talking to one of my colleagues and they were talking about all the SEO strategy and the strategy around content, I found something really interesting. I saw this 200% increase in visits from YouTube and I was like, hang on a second. What’s going on here? There’s such a big increase all of a sudden. Anyway, I was digging into it and I really have worked out, who am I selling to? People that are buying work wear, most likely tradies, what are they doing? They’re not sitting around reading stuff. They like watching stuff. So I thought, okay and I tracked it back and I’d realize that the owner had created one video a year ago and that was the one video that was bringing in the traffic. I had this lightbulb moment and I thought, hang on a second, maybe we should just do a few more videos and drive more traffic instead of doing content. So what we did was we tried to understand, who we’re targeting and how are they consuming content and just let’s do more of that. Now, one of the really interesting things is, because I don’t directly talk to the customer, because it happens to be relationship that I have with a old university friend of mine. And so she goes, “Ah, he’s creating videos every week “and he puts them on Facebook “but he never put it onto YouTube.” And I did a bit of research. I’ve tried to find out who else was doing stuff like this. I found one guy that was doing it, had done some like a year or two years ago, not optimized so actually didn’t get a lot of traffic. They were actually pretty good videos to be honest. I don’t understand why he doesn’t keep doing it but it was really interesting. So I said look, there’s an opportunity for us. Let’s test this out as a way to get more traffic from the right audience that we need so that they can buy more stuff.

– I think that’s such a simple yet powerful. It’s powerfully simple. I know, it’s deeply powerful.

– Deeply powerful, right?

– Inside and just takes you back to the simple things because sometimes we overthink stuff, don’t we? And here you’ve gone back, you’ve just tracked it back and then if it, okay, this one particular piece of content, let’s do a bit more of that, you’ve done a bit of competitive research. It’s not saturated, there is still opportunity there. Okay, he’s actually producing the content, he’s doing on another platform. So this is just a very simple implementation channel update and it’s probably gonna return very powerful results.

– Now leading on from there, Craig our inside of the week was driving right on from that and this is something really interesting that you highlighted.

– All right, so switching gears, so not tradies but this is more in the enterprise space. It’s around campaign targeting versus targeting for campaigns. I’ll explain what I mean by that, because when you’re building enterprise campaigns, it can be very easy to just focus on a particular product or service, you build out your campaign schedule for the year and go, in July, we’re gonna do this and it’s focusing on this product and that. And so what happens is you start with the messaging first or the product or the promotion idea, the topic first, then you drive down, then you go, okay, and then as part of that, somewhere along the line, you kinda say, okay, well, he’s targeting, who are we gonna target and that might affect the ads and that’s perfectly fine. That’s actually a pretty normal way to work. However, the flip side which you also have to keep in balance, is you need to start with the persona first, the targeting first and then drive into the campaigns. So that’s just basically a reminder that it’s about getting this balance of persona versus topic. Focus, right, getting that mix right and in our particular case with a client, I won’t mention who they are but enterprise space, all these campaigns underway and we’re kinda like, ah. Maybe we should tweak the messaging based on current climate and work from home and this, we actually have to take a step back and say, oh, hang on, we’ve actually got so far down in the weeds of this particular campaign, we’re actually starting to lose sight of our persona. So let’s take it all back, start with the persona again and then just check which campaigns we want to run. So it’s a flip. One of the quick tactical ways to keep ideas fresh and you highlighted this to me, was the persona versus pain points matrix. Got a very simple table in the show notes and basically down one side, you say your personas and then across the top, you got your pain points and then in the matrix segments or slots, you talk about the particular content that you’re gonna do in each. So if a pain point for example is a how to pain point, well, maybe it’s a video. If it’s a what’s the process pain point, it’s a checklist and we’ve got a few others in there, examples as well, don’t we Ian?

– Correct and then if it’s helped me understand pain point, that could be a blog post. And if it’s in depth understanding that they require then maybe an e-book could address that. Now why I wanted to highlight this, in order to give a shout out to one of our listeners was when I was training their team, I actually saw their three personas stuck on the wall and when they came up against about what do we give people, it was really easy because I looked up on the wall, and I kinda saw, here are their pain points and I said, “Oh, let me just pick one thing “from this persona and one thing from this persona “who you’re talking to and let’s address that.” So I said, maybe that’s a video, maybe you need to actually create a video so you can get in front of them appropriately to solve their pain point. And it just became so evidently clear and one of the things that actually sparked from that was, I think, oh, we need to actually update that but you know one thing that I really liked was it was front and center. So as they were making their calls, as they were doing their marketing activity, they could see these personas in front of them. And so I encourage people, think about if you’re in sales in and marketing, stick the persona of that person in front of you as you’re making your calls and doing your daily work might actually help you. Now with that in mind, I wanted to talk about the overarching account based marketing approach that we’ve talked about many times where you have different stakeholders, decision makers involved and it’s really important to understand your personas in there, like who is an influencer? Who is a blocker? Who holds the money in the deal? Who is someone who is championing the deal, for example? And in saying that, one of the really key things I discovered while doing some, the lesson, ABM lesson in HubSpot Academy was one of the things they say is that, with ABM, it’s actually more important to have a marketer and a salesperson, like a tactical team. And to start off with just one salesperson, one marketing person and understanding who the companies are, who the people are and so you can target them appropriately. And one really interesting stat was one marketer could support up to 10 salespeople and then once you get beyond 10, it’s worth adding another marketer and then splitting up and then growing it again. But it really highlighted to me how important it was for sales and marketing to work cohesively together to make this strategy work because the messaging and how you talk to each of the individuals within the account based marketing approach was so critical to the outcome of getting a great outcome versus a mediocre outcome. Craig, you had a great cracker of a resource.

– All right, so this is from Orbit Media and thanks to Andy over at Orbit Media, the perfect B2B websites service page, we’ve got a image screenshot in the show notes. Check that out, really useful layout. If you’ve got a service offering, here’s the main layout of the page. Just go and check out the article.

– Now, Craig, what’s that our quote of the week? I actually love this quote.

– Yeah, this is from . I love his thinking. I follow him on Twitter and listen to his podcast. He said, “Groups search for consensus, “individuals search for truth,” that’s the quote. That’s actually the heading of the blog post titled, “The Blog Post” can’t read it for the full picture as explains it but I really like this ’cause I’m not a fan of group think. I think it’s often the blind leading the blind and you’ll see these groups of very well meaning people jump in and give opinions that are ill informed but perhaps persuasively delivered and ultimately dangerous, I feel. So find experts and search for the truth. Well, listeners, thank you for listening to this episode. Please follow us on the socials. Also, please connect with Craig and myself on LinkedIn and say you listened to the show, we’d love to connect with you and start a conversation. We have been really enjoying all the people that have connected with us over the last three months and just getting to know you guys. It’s been such a pleasure to to know that there are so many good people out there doing great things. I encourage everybody that listens, continue to do good, continue to help one another. And Craig, until next time.

– Catch you later, Ian.

– Thank you for listening to this episode of HubShots. For show notes, resources, HubSpot news, including practical strategies you can implement, visit us at HubShots.com

Episode 209: Email Features, Trends and Personalisation  

Episode 209: Email Features, Trends and Personalisation  

Welcome to HubShots Episode 209: Email Features, Trends and Personalisation

This episode we discuss email features, trends and personalisation along with the importance of testing quickly.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/209-email-features-trends-and-personalisation

Welcome to HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Recorded: Thursday 02 July 2020 | Published: Friday 10 July 2020

Shot 1: Growth Thought of the Week

Trust In News Sources

Reuters has released a comprehensive report covering digital news consumption during the coronavirus crisis. A clear trend is the growing trust in reputable news organisations along with a growing distrust in other channels including social media, messaging and YouTube:

reuters trust sources

Some interesting behaviours:

  • Paid news subscriptions have grown for the top news brands eg NYT, Washington Post
  • Scientists and doctors have (by far) the most trust, followed by national health organisations
  • Consumption of email newsletters from trusted new organisation has grown

Later in the show we dive into how this can impact your email newsletter strategy.

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Drag and Drop Email Editor Improvements

The email editor continues to improve, this time with a simple way to save existing emails as a template.

We’ve had clients asking for this – previously we advised them to create the email and use a naming convention to mark it as a pseudo-template. This update fixes that issue.

hubspot save email as template

Shoutout to Shane who has been hanging out for this!

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Adding Personalisation and Email Signatures to Emails

Personalising the one email to go from each person on the sales team including their signature.

  1. You need to make sure that every salesperson has their signature setup in HubSpot under Profile & Preferences

User Preferences   HubSpot 4

  1. Then to set it in the marketing email make sure you use the following personalisation token:

Edit Email    From Sales Team  Take advantage of the  150k  plain  2

Or using any of the following:

Edit Email    From Sales Team  Take advantage of the  150k  plain  1

Then make sure the from email and name is set as follows:

Edit Email    From Sales Team  Take advantage of the  150k  plain

Shot 4: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

Sudden increase in soft bounces when sending emails

Starting in May one of our clients suddenly started having email deliverability problems – the percentage of soft bounces for an email send were suddenly over 30% – see the example below:

hubspot email stats 1

Turns out this was due to their sending domain not being authenticated:

hubspot softbounce email error 1

We’re investigating this with HubSpot Support and the customer’s IT team to see if there has been any significant changes in the last two months. We’ve re-started the email sending domain authentication process for this domain again to see if that fixes it.

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

Test Marketing Ideas Quickly

Action beats perfection.

It can be easy to fall into the trap of thinking you need to build out an entire idea before you put it in market. Recently one client went through the process of building out an entire Shopify store in order to test whether there was the demand for purchasing online – and it never went live because they wanted to get everything in place first. However, they accidentally left it available (unfinished) on one page, and found that people were attempting to purchase. And now they are frantically trying to get it finished – months later.

They would have been better off testing the idea with a simple button to check if anyone was interested in buying. And if that did get a response, then they’d know to put effort into it.

Here is the data that highlighted they need to get this going:

Deals 2

Another example where testing would have been better – another client built out a full Chinese language version of a contact & landing page because they thought there would be demand – but there wasn’t. It would have been quicker to offer a Chinese CTA to test whether there was interest.

Shot 6: Insight of the Week

Email Behaviour Trends

As we alluded to at the start of the show, there is now a growing consumption of news (from trusted sources) via email.

Which in turn means there’s even more competition for your inbox attention.

Email (like most content) can be broadly categorised as:

  • Educational
  • Entertainment
  • Promotional

Be clear on what goal each of your specific emails has. The best emails can combine all three, but this is very difficult to do.

Currently, there is a thirst for actionable, valuable news.

Shot 7: Resource of the Week

Is Click Fraud devouring your Ad budget?

An insightful post from Conversion XL covering all the ways click fraud can be impacting your paid ad spend.

Worth checking, but also be mindful that it may not be as big an issue depending on your industry – Google Ads is very good at identifying fraudulent clicks.

Shot 8: Quote of the Week

“Great leaders absorb uncertainty and pass down clarity”

– JD Sherman (via Brian Halligan tweet)

Shot 9: Bonus Links of the Week

User Onboarding Examples



Shot 10: Follow Us on the Socials

Connect with HubShots here: HubShots YouTube channel – HubShots Spotify channel – HubShots Facebook group – HubShots Twitter – HubShots Instagram – HubShots LinkedIn

Connect with Ian Jacob on LinkedIn and Craig Bailey on LinkedIn

HubShots is produced by Christopher Mottram from Podcastily.

Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

Episode 209 Email Features, Trends and Personalisation

Full Transcript of the Episode

– Hi everyone, welcome to “HubShots” Episode 209. In this episode we discuss email features, trends and personalization, along with the importance of testing quickly, you listen to Asia Pacific’s number one HubSpot focus podcast where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks, features and strategies for growing your sales and marketing and service results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. How are you Craig.

– I’m really well and back for another week. I think some fascinating insights into news coming up in Growth Thought of the Week and particularly how they relate to email. And then of course, we’ll dive into improvements in HubSpot email and also some gotchas and tips and tricks.

– Fantastic, so Growth Thought of the Week Craig, “Trust in news sources.” This was a report that Reuters have put out, it’s quite a comprehensive report, and it’s covering digital news consumption in particular during this Coronavirus crisis. One of the things that it highlight is, is there’s a growing trust in reputable news organizations. And that’s along with a growing distrust in other channels, including social media, messaging and YouTube. We’ve got a screenshot from the report there. And you can see that news organizations, number four in terms of the trust factor, scientists and doctors are number one, global health organizations, number three, social media, Facebook and Twitter right down the bottom. Why would we be highlighting this at the moment? Well, a few things that come out of this some interesting behaviors, paid new subscriptions have grown. So this is people paying for news. However, it’s very skewed just towards the reputable brands, New York Times, Washington Post in particular, been two that have worked well. In Australia, we have the ABC News, which is the most trustworthy by far media brands, worth mentioning to our American listeners the ABC in Australia, is Australian Broadcasting Corporation a lot different to the ABC in America. So they’re totally different. The thing that’s come out of this, and what’s led us to putting this in the Growth Thought of the Week, these reputable news organizations and publications have ramped up their use of email newsletters. And what this report is highlighting is that people are consuming news from reputable brands and that’s affecting their behaviors in terms of email consumption. So later on in Shot six or seven in Insight of the Week, we’re gonna talk about the types of newsletters that are working and which ones you should be focusing on. So it’s coming up after we actually talk about some of the email features that have been coming out in HubSpot.

– Now Craig, I wanted to highlight in this was that scientists and doctors, by far have the most trust and even national health organizations which is really interesting, given what we’ve, we’re going through and what we have been through. So that’s a really interesting statistics. There’s a little insight into if you’re in the medical professional, now’s a really good time for you to start doing something around, maybe communicating with people that your audience essentially.

– And we’ll cover that later in the show, the type of content you should be actually talking about in your newsletters. The consumption behavior is very clearly talking about educational content. And we’ll talk about the types of content that you use in email newsletters.

– And now we’re gonna talk about, Marketing Feature of the Week and we’re gonna highlight the drag and drop email editor improvements.

– I saw this nice little thing pop up when that was talking about you can now save existing emails as a template. Nice little feature. And why I thought we’d mentioned this is because we’ve actually had clients asking for this. I think may get used to it in MailChimp and other tools, and they’re like, “Oh, okay, so I’ve created this drag and drop email. “How do I save it as a template? “Where’s the save email? “Where’s the template?” And they’ve been like, “Yeah doesn’t have it.” In fact, what we’ve advised today is just be like, create it and just name it and use a naming convention and you actually name the email template. We’ve actually had clients do that. Well now, thankfully, you no longer have to do that, because we’ve got this new little feature called save emails template, got to screenshot, and there’s a nice knowledge base article as well. And I just wanted to give a quick shout out to Shane, you know who you are. Shane, ’cause you’ve been hanging out for this, it’s now there.

– All right, Craig. And now lead onto our HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week and this is about adding personalization and email signatures to emails. And we do this quite regularly on behalf of sales team is sending out say product updates, product information that go directly from the salesperson that those people have a relationship with. So I’m gonna highlight two, three key things that we do and the first one is make it feel like a one on one email. Some including that person’s signature in the email, the first thing you need to make sure you do, which not a lot of people do do when they set their account up is to go to profile and preferences and set up your email signature. That’s the first thing. Once you’ve done that, you will then be able to select a personalization token when you create the email. And it’s not readily apparent because you might be looking for something to do with signature. But really, what you need to do is for the signature to appear, you’ve gotta choose the contact token as the contact owner. When you do that, you’ll get shown different options and then you use the user property which is signature. Now in there, there are other options as well. So example, a common one is that people might include the meetings link. So that’s another way to put this into the email that’s going out, if you want them to book a meeting. The third one is in the email settings. The from name and the from address can be personalization tokens from the contact owner. So in the screenshot, you will see it says owner dot full name and owner dot email. And that will pull who the owner is from HubSpot. And if you get these three things, right, you will have great success with your emails, they’d go out on behalf of the sales people in your business. And a bonus here. If you’re using a professional enterprise, you can actually add smart rules to your subject lines. And so in this notes, you’ll see a screenshot of a default subject line and then a subject lines specifically for customers that are in that lifecycle stage. There you have it.

– They’re really good tips and good features and not often used, for example, that smart rules for changing subject lines, I was looking at that and I was wondering, “Oh wow, that’s fantastic.” And you said to me, “It’s been there for ages.” I hadn’t even realized so I don’t think I’ve ever used it, I’ve used personalization in email subject lines, but I hadn’t used actually smart roles in the subject line. So an excellent tip there.

– All right, Craig onto HubSpot Gotcha of the Week. And this is also to do with email. And it’s something that you were showing me in one of your client portals is the sudden increase of soft bounces when sending email.

– Yes, this kinda caught us by surprise. This is a longtime client. We’ve been sending emails their newsletters for well, years. And all of a sudden in May, that’s just the last two months May and June, suddenly getting an extraordinary high number of bounces. And these are soft bounces, got a screenshot from a recent send and 33% of the contacts bounced. And then if we drill, we started drilling into them going, “What’s going on?” And you can see again, we’ve got a screenshot, and there’s this DMARC error D-M-A-R-C error that is to do with authorization on the email. So email authentication, not being made, and then for the email getting bounced by the recipient email server. So this has just started happening and we’re not exactly sure why. And we are investigating this with HubSpot support and our customers’ IT team. So far it doesn’t seem as though they had made any changes. It’s not like they use, switched email servers or anything like that, that might have affect their domains. What we’ve done is we’ve actually gone through and we’ve restarting the whole email sending the main authentication page with DNS settings or removing them, resetting them, to see if that fixes it, but just a very strange thing. Now, googling it doesn’t look like a lot of people had this issue. So I don’t think it’s a HubSpot issue. But I think it’s just to do with the amount of email going around at the moment. I don’t know if it’s related, in fact, I’m sure it’s not related. But did you see recently that Gmail spam filters had a whole outage the other day and there was all this spam, there’s all this kinda thing. And then we’ve seen all these massive, almost like email denial of service attacks going on just in the last couple of weeks, so maybe a whole lot of email recipient, exchanges are clamping down. It’s getting tougher. I’m not exactly sure. But the point of this is, “Listeners, “please go and check all those.” Checking the bounce rate isn’t something that you think to do normally, you look at things like open rate, and you go, “Oh, yeah.” But if you’re not checking actually how many successful deliveries there are, you might easily miss this. So just a reminder to go through and check those out. And we’re actually going through all our customer portals. And now this has become one of our normal processes. Every email that gets sent out, a typical process now we now go and check the bounces. Just because we got lucks on it, we’ve had effortless and really good delivery for so long. We’re just like, “Oh yeah. “Just seemed normal.” So just a reminder that things change.

– And listeners, just make sure that soft bounces are generally something like what Craig was talking about is rules changing and authorization changing. Another thing could be someone’s mailbox is full. So if you’re delivering especially to somebody that has a Hotmail, Gmail or even they’ve got a limit on their work email inbox, if it’s full it’ll bounce. So that’s the other thing. Here’s a tip for hard bounces, you can go and easily create a list from those people that have had bounce and understand why they’ve had bounce. And what we tend to do is from that list we will create individual contact views for people instead own that contact in sales, to actually follow them up and find out. Generally people have moved on and that email is no longer valid, but it actually gives us the opportunity to update the contact, or in certain government departments or councils that in Australia, they’ll have a policy where they’ll say, automatic response will go back and say, “This person is no longer here. “And this is the contact of the new person.” So this is a really good way to keep your contact database clean and up to date.

– All right, Craig our Marketing Tip of the Week.

– Yes, this is about testing measure, but test and measure quickly. And you were telling me before we started recording this interesting story about one of your clients, how they put off going live with something, because they wanted to make it perfect, basically, but what they should have done it’s just quickly tested it. And you’ve got two examples talk us through them. The first one especially was a fascinating example of opportunity.

– Correct, now here’s one customer had an opportunity to actually sell one of their products online. And when everything started recently, we said, “Okay, well, we can quickly set up a shop in Shopify, “and you’ve only got like a hand, “literally a handful of products that you will sell.” We can get that set up, we can then embed it on your HubSpot site, and you can get someone to complete the transaction. Shopify surprisingly has a really good way of doing what they call a simple Buy Button. So setting up the shop, putting the products in and then embedding some code on the page. And everything will take place using the Shopify back-end, and gives a pretty seamless experience, if you wanna do things really quickly. So that’s essentially what we set up. They entered, “Oh I wanna see how this looks like “in this view in that view.” And so I embedded a few different products in different views on different pages. And I said, “I’ll have a look at this “test it out yourselves and figure out, “will this be sufficient to go with.” Anyway, then we sell the whole conversation of, “Oh we need to do this. “We need to find these pictures, “we need the shipping policy. “What happens when returns happen?” And now we’re overthinking the whole process. Now, weeks have gone by, things have happened. I’ve taken down some of them, one of them I happen to leave up accidentally. And what happened last week was someone got a notification that they tried to check out. And they’ve now ended up as a contact in the database. And they essentially go, “We never got notified about this.” And this is what triggered the whole conversation. So they found, they tracked back and they go, “Oh,” Then they looked, when you connect Shopify and HubSpot, you’ll automatically get a E-commerce pipeline that gets created and the stages that a sale would go through. They discovered in the abandoned checkout, in the time since we’ve had this has been $4,000 worth of sales that have been abandoned. Some of them have from testing. But a lot of them are not, because if you look at the timeline of when things are happening. So first, it was like, “Can you please make sure “this product is off,” and the next email two minutes, I was like, “Hang on, we need to get this going “really quickly, because we’re missing out on sales.” What I’m encouraging people to is even before you even set up Shopify, you could have actually set up a simple call to action to say buy this online and just measure the number of people that click there as a first indicator to then implement a shop. So that was the first example.

– Actually, can I make a few comments on that? Because I really want to ram this idea home from people because the problem here is they wanted to get it perfect. And because that took time I kept putting it off. And it’s taking months. And I and I will put that on the back burner ’cause we’ve got to get it all right. And so they’ve wasted all of this time. Unfortunately, they got this notification. And now they quickly, “Ah, get it in place,” because they have effectively tested it now and confirm there’s demand. And I’m guessing it’ll take what a couple of days to get this in place and working all those things. So taking months of stuffing around ’cause they wanted to get it right. And what you’re saying is they should have just tested it. They could have tested it months ago, put a button “Oh yeah, there is demand, great,” and then spend a few days getting it all in line. Ben said they’ve wasted months, and now there is demand. So your point is action beats perfection, test those ideas quickly. Because on the other hand, say that no one clicked any of those buttons. “Well, okay, there isn’t demand. “So don’t even waste your time setting up Shopify.” But your second example is actually example of that latter case, isn’t it where they shouldn’t do something.

– Correct, and this is another customer of ours that had somebody on their sales team that is a fluent Chinese speaker and he thought, “Oh, there’s a market here “to sell to Chinese people.” They’ve gone to the whole processing, translated a whole page into Chinese about who the business is. They have then created the contact forms. We’ve done a whole lot of work around, making sure the menus are correct, that the contact in Chinese is correct. We’ve got the follow ups. Anyway, we do all of that stuff. And then I was about to say, “Hang on, do we know this is gonna work?” Four to six weeks down the track, we have discovered that there has been a zero inquiry from people using this Chinese page. So I would then say is that, I could have solved this problem by putting, maybe putting another CTA in Chinese to figure out do Chinese people actually want to A, use their product and B, inquiring this manner without having to actually do the whole process of all the translation and spending all that time doing it. Another example of saving yourself heartache. All right Craig, Insight of the Week, email behavior trends.

– Alright, so we flagged this at the start of the show. And this comes from the Reuters report that we were talking about, and the fact that news organizations, accelerating the use of email newsletters, and you would know if you’re a subscriber to any of these, I’m a subscriber to The Washington Post, for example, you can go in and get choose to get newsletters daily, weekly, all kinds of things. That’s been really worth it for those brands. But here’s the thing, we often talk about content being one of three types, it can be educational, that’s utility, it can be entertaining. So it’s more of a leisure piece. And then it’s promotional, there’s a sales aspect. And so whether it’s content, whether that’s email, whether it’s site content, blog pages, even videos, you do all those kind of things. It’s normally one of those three, and if you’re particularly talented, you can wave all three into an email and so you’ve probably experienced this, you have an email, it is very informative, gives you information you feel that’s valuable. There’s a bit of humor and say some entertainment as well. And then there’s a call to action to maybe buy something. When it’s done well, it can be very effective. However, based on the current crisis we’ve been through, and this is what the writers literally are showing the pushed educational content and news content, high value news content has increased because it runs 24/7, just looking for more news on COVID, it’s affecting behaviors that seeping into behaviors with other topics and this is business emails, products that you, people want trusted educational contents or information. So what we’re talking with our clients and perhaps listeners, this will apply to you, your mileage may vary depending on your industry and of course, a whole bunch of other factors but if you’ve got an email newsletter, and perhaps in the past you used to just have a curation pace and slap together a few links and not really put high value that’s not gonna get the cut through because while news letters with educational content have increased, that’s been at the expense of the what we’ll call the lazier newsletter. So we’re really looking to make this high value. And here’s the way to test, If you’re talking about a product, say for example, as if we were talking about HubSpot, if I was to send out a newsletter that just regurgitated news links that you could get from the product blog, or something like that, it’s probably not gonna be high value. But if we put our own spin on it, and add our own insights to it, so it’s still high value, and is informative, has our voice, the real test is could they get that content anywhere else? If they could, then yours isn’t unique. So think about that, particularly around educational content, and how you can provide high value especially during these times to your audience.

– Now, Craig, one of the email news that we love that probably encompasses all of this is Morning Brew. And I think listeners you’ve heard us talk about this a lot of times.

– Morning Brew and Marketing Brew, do you get the Marketing Brew?

– I do, and I even get the Retail Brew? Did you hear that?

– Oh, no, I didn’t know there was a Retail Brew. I have to check that one out.

– Yeah, that’s really good. I actually enjoy reading that, that’s not as frequent but a good read, nonetheless.

– You know what we should do next time, I remember a couple years ago, we talked about the newsletters that we did subscribe to. We should put that list up again, because there’s a few I do, I subscribe to and pay for it. There’s actually paid newsletters. I’m actually very happy to pay for good quality content. I just don’t have time for all the noise that people have to insert in order to sustain, I guess the time that they do so. I have a few but there SEO Marketing ones I happily pay because they give me value and they save me time.

– All right, Craig, we have our Resource of the Week and this is probably really interesting to people that are doing paid advertising. And an insightful post on conversion Excel, again, we speak about quite a lot. And is click fraud, devouring your ad budget? So covering ways that click fraud can be impacting your paid ad spend. And it’s worth checking out and be mindful that this may be happening in your industry. And also be understanding that Google is very good at identifying fraudulent clicks.

– I think this is right. It’s a really good article and opened my eyes. And then I went looking for tools. And of course, there’s so many tools on the market these days that will help you avoid click fraud, and they all work differently. And so it was quite insightful for me to find out how they do all these things. But yeah, then we’re chatting on some of the members groups I’m on. And some of the experts in Google Ads and former Google Ads engineers and they say fraudulent clicks is one of the things they spent a lot of time trying to crack down on. And we’ve had this in some accounts where we look in, ’cause there’s actually a column that Google Ads will show you where they, what do they call it? I don’t think it’s called fraudulent clicks, it’s like refunded clicks or something like that.

– Correct, you actually see a refund on your bill.

– Yeah,

– Based on that.

– Where they highlight all the clicks that they found that were fraudulent and they yeah, they don’t charge you for them. So that’s good.

– All right, on to our Quote of the Week, Craig. It’s a great friend from JD Sherman.

– Yeah, Brian Halligan tweeted this, and here’s the quote, “Great leaders absorb uncertainty and pass down clarity.” How good is that? That is leadership right there, absorb uncertainty and pass down clarity. Thanks, JD

– All right. We’ve got a few Bonus Links in the show. So we encourage you to check it out. One is about industry deep dive and it’s a HubSpot report. And the other one is, from a cycle really good UX about user onboarding. Listeners again, thank you for listening. Please connect with us on LinkedIn and leave a note saying you listen to this show, and connect with us on the socials. And we know, you can subscribe and have this delivered to your inbox every week. So go to hubshots.com and subscribe and you’ll be notified every time our episode goes live. Well Craig, until next time.

– Catch you later, Ian.

– [Narrator] Hey there thanks for listening to this episode of HubShots. For shot notes and the latest HubSpot news and tips, please visit us at hubshots.com.

Episode 208: What should you report on?

Episode 208: What should you report on?

Welcome to HubShots Episode 208: What should you report on?

This episode we discuss the key items to report on for your stakeholders, clients and team members. Plus the awesome update to the Gmail extension.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/208-what-should-you-report-on

Plus we follow up on our comment last time about rolling back automation of reports, and answer a listener question about what reporting to provide to small business clients.

Welcome to HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Recorded: Thursday 25 June 2020 | Published: Tuesday 30 June 2020

Shot 1: Growth Thought of the Week

The Importance of Critical Thinking

It is easy to get totally swamped with day-to-day pressures – especially in the past few months.

As a result you can easily skip the important work of considering trends, changing behaviours and new opportunities.

Is now a good time (end of financial year in some countries) to plan to take time out to think critically about your marketing strategies?

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Revenue Attribution Report Reminder

The Revenue Attribution report is a good way to drill into what channels, content, touches are driving final revenue:

hubspot revenue attribution

Notice how the different attribution models highlight the role of channels such as email marketing, organic, social and paid.

It demonstrates how important the journey from first contact through to deal signoff is. Email is often one of the biggest supporters of closing revenue.

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

HubSpot Gmail Extension is sooooo much better!

The ability to associate emails with specific contacts, companies, deals and tickets in HubSpot via the Log option in the Gmail plugin.

hubspot gmail 1

hubspot gmail 2

Shot 4: Listener Question of the Week

From Chad: following on from our last episode where we chatted about the downside of automating everything:

“I wanted to reach out and see if you two could provide me and my business partner with some advice. I know in the last podcast you talked about undoing some of the automation for reporting. My question is this, what do you typically include in the reporting? We work with a lot of smaller clients and we are looking to determine a good process for the monthly/quarterly check-in.”

HubShots thoughts:

  • Tailor your approach for each client, based on their goals
  • There’s a maturity that clients go through – see also this blog post on the Reporting Life Cycle
    • Rankings
    • Traffic
    • Engagement
    • Leads
    • Customers
    • Repeat sales
  • Automate creating reports (where possible) but don’t automate sending to clients
  • Instead, analyse the reports, pull out insights and organise to discuss with the client
  • We typically include the following items:
    • Leads generated
    • Where they were created from ie which channels, campaigns and content
    • If possible, close the loop to identify which leads converted into customers
    • If available, we then drill into revenue/deals created for the leads
    • Discuss costs of acquisition, and which channels are most economical
    • What worked, what didn’t
    • New ideas to test
    • The plan for next month
  • We’ve generally stopped discussing the following unless they are particularly relevant:
    • Traffic
    • Social engagement
    • Rankings (unless part of a specific focus)

Shot 5: HubSpot Extra of the Week

Improved Import to Blog from Google Docs

HubSpot has improved the import from Google docs process – preserving the formatting better. Import is available from the Advanced toolbar, after you switch over to editing content:

hubspot import google doc

However, we never really want to retain the styles – we always Clear Styles after importing anyway:

hubspot import google doc clear styles

Shot 6: Marketing Tip of the Week

Twitter Adding Voice Notes

Podcast creation has exploded (everyone is creating a podcast these days). Audio consumption is growing.

Twitter is adding voice notes, 2 min 20 sec audio snippets. Think about launching your own 2.5 minute podcast. We’re going to be testing it as soon as we have access.

twitter voice note

Shot 7: Insight of the Week

Email Tracking will continue to become less accurate

Also more focus on blocking tracking scripts eg hey.com blocks all email tracking:

hey script blocking

Shot 8: Resource of the Week

Some interesting bits we got from Apple.

  • Siri gets 25 billion requests per month!
  • 20x more facts than 3 years ago.
  • Can run neural detection on device
  • 40% increase in messages.
  • 2x more shared conversations.
  • Apple maps opportunities for places as they make it richer.
  • Applet is a small part of an App, NFQ, QR code, messages, maps.

The opportunity here is for maps and apps.

Some other things because Ian likes everything auto!

  • EV routing, based on the car that you have!
  • 2021 digital key for BMW 5 series, can share keys!  Unlock and start your car.

Shot 9: Quote of the Week

“A flower is simply a weed with an advertising budget”

Rory Sutherland (Alchemy)

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week

Adobe Study on ecommerce trends

According to Adobe, using their Adobe Analytics data, online shopping has increased rapidly to exceed holiday shopping season volumes.

An Overview of How Facebook uses Machine Learning to Deliver Ads

A simple overview from Facebook about how ML is used for targeting and placing ads.

In the article they also reiterate that they don’t use any audio from your phone speaker for targeting ads or your newsfeed.

Shot 12: Follow Us on the Socials

Connect with HubShots here: HubShots YouTube channel – HubShots Spotify channel – HubShots Facebook group – HubShots Twitter – HubShots Instagram – HubShots LinkedIn

Connect with Ian Jacob on LinkedIn and Craig Bailey on LinkedIn

You can also sign up to receive our episode updates by email.

Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

Episode 208: What should you report on?

Full Transcript of the Episode

– Hi everyone, welcome to HubShots, episode 208. In this episode, we discuss the key items to report on for your stakeholders, clients and team members, plus the awesome update to Gmail extensions. Plus, we follow up on our comment last time about rolling back automation of reports and answer listener questions about what reporting to provide to small business customers and clients. You’re listening to Asia Pacific’s number one HubSpot focus podcast where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks and strategies for growing your sales marketing and service results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search and Be Found and with me is Craig Bailey from Zen Systems. How are you, Craig?

– I’m well, Ian, and I’m trying to think critically.

– Now, tell me, why are you trying to think critically, Craig?

– All right. So, . I wanted to mention this importance of critical thinking because I’m sure many listeners, especially in countries where it’s heading to end of financial year, in Australia where end of financial year is June 30 and I know that’s the case in many places around the world, it’s really easy to get swamped with just day to day pressures, plus with coming… Well, we’re still in the midst of a crisis, so many things happening the last few months. It’s just go go go. Always on the back foot putting out fires. You’ve probably skipped thinking critically, critical thinking about things. There’s only so long you can do that before it starts to eat away at you. So, I just wanted to I guess put a reminder when this goes live, which will probably be past the end of financial year, now’s a good time to plan to take time out to think critically about your marketing strategies, your goals, how you’re going to embrace the change that is present and is continuing to adapt. You’ve got to take that time out. I’ve been very fortunate the last week or two. Actually, just, I had one, last week, I had the whole afternoon I just set aside for critical thinking, thinking about the business, some of the new products we’re going to push out into market, just thinking about team leadership, a whole bunch of things and just having the three or four hours with nothing else, turned off email, turned off all the other stuff just to think critically and plan. It’s just a wonderful activity. So, I’d encourage listeners to do that. I don’t know. Have you had time to do that, Ian?

– I try to do that every week, Craig, on a Monday. I block out the first bit of the day to do that in the week. And I think that does help, and like I’ve said to our listeners before, and like we try to do is make sure we’re journaling and being grateful every day. Because it really puts things into perspective and when I was speaking to someone today, whose been in business, gone through a bit of a tough time and then was thinking, really, I should’ve been here but I’m not, but then when I look from the outside and I look in, I’m like, you’ve actually got to be really proud of where you’ve got to and I don’t think she realized that. So, yeah, there you go.

– I think that’s a really good reminder as well. Part of critical thinking is reflection on what you’ve achieved. It can be so easy to think, oh, everything’s really difficult, we haven’t achieved anything, but actually, if you stand back and take stock, you probably have.

– That’s right. Now, Craig, onto our HubSpot marketing feature of the week and since this is a lot around reporting and types of reporting, we’re going to talk about revenue attribution reporting reminder. This is if you have a HubSpot marketing professional and enterprise.

– That’s right. A good reminder about, this has been here for a while and we’ve discussed it on the show before but the revenue attribution report is a really good way to drill into what channels, content, what touches are driving final revenue. So, as the name implies, it’s about revenue it’s pulling from deals in your HubSpot portal. We’ve got a screen shot here where you can slice and dice it and the really good thing I like about it, well, two really good things that I think are useful. First, the kind of attribution model you can have and in the screenshot, I’ve just shown the difference between three of the attribution reports, there’s first and last interaction, but also in the middle there’s kind of this linear approach. It’s really interesting I think to see how if you just look at first interaction, that’ll be really skewed to one channel, whereas if you bring in others like linear and last interaction, it really highlights things such as email marketing, really helping in terms of driving that deal through to completion. Their first interaction might’ve been another channel, but email marketing really works in this particular case. Also, the other thing that’s really good about this report is you can drill into any of them. So, you can actually click onto the dollar numbers and you can see and outline it just gives you this timeline of contacts, then you can drill into a contact and see all their touches, how they’ve come about. We find this really useful and why this is such a good item for this week’s episode, given the listener question we’ve got coming up later in the show, it’s because this is where it really matters, the revenue and part of your reporting is, well, what drove that revenue? Sometimes digging into each individual deal, pulling out those insights, looking at how those people came in, that’s the hard work we have to do as marketers and later we’ll talk about how automation can sometimes just avoid and overlook all of that. That’s where the gold is and this attribution report from HubSpot is a great way to drill into it.

– Craig, I just want to add, if you sometimes look into contacts, you will notice that some of the things that we would do in terms of paid advertising, so, in terms of remarketing or retargeting, you will actually see people are clicking on those ads to come back as another channel, right? So, it’s really interesting. People go, it doesn’t matter, don’t worry about that, but you’d be surprised, sometimes there is that recoil effect, or people forget and then they see something, they go, oh, hang on, I was researching this and I need to back. You’ll see that in the timeline if you go through. So, it’s actually… As much as you’ve got this report, I’d also encourage people to delve into some of the context that have history and see their journey, because it can really highlight to you things, especially if you’re doing lead scoring and you go, well, look at these deals that closed and these were good customers that we really liked. What was their journey? What did they do and what were those points? And just go through them individually. We did that with a customer a little while ago to work out some of the lead scoring and I think that made a massive effect because you could kind of see the journey that people had gone through to get to the end. All right, Craig, onto our HubSpot sales feature of the week. This is the HubSpot Gmail extension that has got so much better.

– This is so good. Just talk us through this. I love this little update.

– So, listeners, if you are using Gmail as your work email, you will probably have seen… You used to have a log-in track setting on your email and possibly this week and as this roles out, you will start to see it’s showing what it’s logging against, and it’s got a number, it’ll tell you the number of records that they’re logging the email against. So, where this is really great is that if we’ve got multiple people on the email or you’ve got deals or you’ve got tickets, you can now select and go, okay, well, I only want to send it to these people or I want to log it to this company, I want to log it to this ticket or this deal. So, if you’ve got multiple deals in a company and people that are discussing, you now have the option to do this which is fantastic.

– This is so good. We’ve got screenshots in the show notes. Listeners, if you’re wondering what we’re talking about, you’ll see the screenshots will make sense and you’ll just go, ah. One of those features that when you see it, you’ll go, ah, how could we have not had this before? We could never go back.

– That’s right. Now, I guess I will have to check, Craig, that it has rolled out on the Office 365 update and I’ll have a look at that with a customer of ours a little later on and tell listeners, or if you are listening and it has happened, let us know. Now, Craig, we’re onto our listener question of the week and this is from Chad and this is following on from the form of our last episode, we talked about the downside of automating everything. His question was, I wanted to reach out and see if we could provide any insights and advice, more about what do you typically include in reporting, especially for smaller business clients and what’s a good process and monthly check ins to do to facilitate that?

– Yeah, and thanks Chad. I’m not sure if we had his permission to mention him in full, but Chad, so we haven’t mentioned your last name. Thanks for the question. Really good question. Just to reiterate in case listeners didn’t hear the episode last week, at the start of episode 207, I talked about the fact that automation can sometimes be a bad thing. As marketers, we try to automate as much as possible and make things more efficient. But, in reporting, you can fall into the trap where you just create these automated reports, send them to the client and never talk to them. Well, we actually really want to check in with our clients and so, Chad’s question is, well, what do include in the reporting and in his case with smaller clients? The first thing I’m going to say is that we tailor our approach to each client based on their goals. So, before, we used to just have, here’s our standard reporting, this is our process, cookie cutter, here’s what we do, send it out, quick follow up, call bang, whatever, or even worse, we’d say, if you’ve got any questions, let us know. That was, we realize now, a big mistake. We thought we were being more efficient and they would just contact us if they had questions but now we realize they never look at the reports, they have no idea what’s going on and if they do look at the reports, it’s not answering the questions about what’s working, it just tells them what’s happened, it doesn’t actually tell them why. So, the first thing is we tailor it to each client, some of our clients want in depth details, they want to drill into the details, others aren’t. Most of them I would say, don’t want all the details, they just want the highlights. What we’ve noticed with clients is kind of a maturity cycle that they go through. So, a really immature client wants to know about rankings. Oh, what’s my rankings for this particular term? Then they kind of progress a bit and they’re like, oh, well, I don’t really care about the rankings, I actually care about the traffic and then they move to, well, what’s the engagement when they get to the site? Then they start getting more mature and they’re like, oh, what are the leads? What leads is this generating? Then they’re like, well, what’s the quality of the leads? And then ideally, they’re talking about, well, what customers are we getting? What’s the life cycle and what am I getting? And then of course, which customers are turning into repeat sales if that’s appropriate for their business. So, the way we tackle that, we’re obviously trying to get clients towards the bottom end of that when they’re talking more about leads and customers and revenue. So, we do automate creating reports where possible, but we don’t automate sending them to clients, instead, we analyze the reports, we pull out insights and we organize to discuss with the client. Now, do you follow a similar process, Ian? What kinds of things… We’ve got in the show notes listeners can… We’ve got actually things we include in the reports, we’ll go through it in the second bit. Do you follow a similar process? What’s your approach, Ian?

– It is a very similar process, Craig, and I think as we’ve shifted towards working more with sales teams and with marketing teams directly and together, we have this conversation, especially about leads and lead quality and what’s converting to an opportunity in a customer. So, that’s a really key metric. To be honest, we don’t even look at traffic stats beyond a certain point. We do keep an eye on it. Like we want to know is it going up or down? But really, the lead indicator here is what inquiries are we getting and what stage of the journey are they at? That’s a really key aspect. So, in HubSpot is having those key reports and now that we can create more dashboards, we really utilize that. So, we have dashboards, especially with one of our customers, they have a weekly dashboard. So, we make sure that weekly data’s getting through and we look at even key metrics even around when people are inquiring, but now even I send the customer’s survey feedback when they’ve inquired five days later to find out what the person’s experience was with that sales person, they contact them and I’ve been getting really interesting responses which has been great, but that’s now another metric we include in the reporting and that we discuss on a weekly or fortnightly basis.

– I think that’s really good. A few other things I’ll just highlight, depending for some clients we talk about this, some they don’t care, but cost of acquisition, cost per lead, we do go into those pieces as well, depending on the volume that they’re after and also what worked, what didn’t. The more mature our clients are, the more they’ll say, ah okay, what worked, what didn’t? Okay, it didn’t? Great. What are we going to do about it? So, they’re often quite happy to hear what didn’t work as well as what did. And then we normally finish up with what new ideas we want to test and then the plan for the next month. Like you, we rarely talk about traffic or social engagement, rarely talk about rankings. The only caveat I’ll say to that though is unless the client is specifically focused on an SEO project, and they’ve identified a whole lot of keywords that they do want to improve around organic, then of course, that’s when rankings would be part of that and also the traffic it drives. But yeah, that’s really it. I hope that’s helpful to Chad. Let us know, but the summary would be, it’s a mix of things. It’s tailored for each client and there’s a focus on leads and ideally if possible, revenue attribution.

– All right. The HubSpot extra of the week, this week is the improved import to blog from Google Docs. Now, people, you might not know that it’s there, but it is and now it’s better. So, previously if you’d imported stuff, you’ve probably got lots of characters and things in format correctly. Well, now it handles it, doesn’t it, Craig?

– Well, the way it’s better is that it pulls in all the formatting and it does preserve the formatting better. But I don’t know a use case where you want to do that. So, the first thing we do after importing is we go to Clare Styles to clear it all up which I’m happy to say works really well. So, I think that… I don’t know for sure, but I suspect the difference is that they’re preserving formats in a more standards based way rather than all this custom styles that they used to have.

– All right. Now, our marketing tip of the week, Craig, is Twitter adding voice notes.

– Yeah, it’s rolling out for some IOS users. We don’t have it yet, but when we do, we will. What it means is that you can record a 140 second voice note. So, 140 seconds originally Twitter was 140 characters. So, there’s a bit of a legacy kind of trend they’re following there. But that’s really about two and a half minutes, just under two and a half minutes and the thing I’ll add is this audio consumption component is growing. Have you noticed that every man and his dog has a podcast now? It seems like in just in the last two months, everyone has a podcast. It just suddenly exploded out of nowhere. Not out of nowhere, but…

– Well, we knew it was coming, right?

– There’s so many companies I’ve seen who are announcing their first episode of a podcast. I think that’s because the tools are so easy these days, setting up a podcast is really easy and of course, Twitter’s showing, yeah, well, audio is really big, and so, that’ll be big. So, we’re actually looking, well, how can we launch a two and a half minute podcast? So, we’ll be having little 140 second episodes that we’ll be putting on Twitter only. Watch this space.

– I’m excited, Craig. Now, inside of the week, Craig, is email tracking will continue to be less accurate and we have seen this from certain providers and even if you think about Apple’s announcements this week, these things are going to get harder. Yeah, privacy is growing, which is good and email tracking is getting blocked. So, we’ve just got a screenshot, this is from hey.com and if you’ve been following lately the hey.com’s a new email re-thinking, which is really nice. I managed to get my invite finally. I’m in there. So, I really like it. For those of you who don’t know it, you can check out the link. But they’ve actually… One of their examples from their site, which we’ve got a screenshot, is they said, you’re protected, we blocked a spy tracker in this thread. This thread contains a spy tracker from HubSpot, because you know how HubSpot has the little tracking pixel? We’ve blocked it. We’ve protected you from these spy trackers. So, there we go. HubSpot in this particular example. The point about this is that this is not an exception. This is going to become the norm. So, in future, the open rates on your emails, they’ll keep going down because they will just be getting blocked and they won’t count as opens. However, clicking will still be logged because that’s based on UTM parameters as opposed to a spy tracking pixel Ian, but UTM parameters. So, just be aware of that and your email open rates will continue to become less accurate.

– All right, Craig, we’ve got a resource of the week. I’m going to quickly go through it. For those of you who don’t know, we love everything Apple around here. So, I watch the key note which is the developer conference that is just taking place and what I love about, there’s some interesting stats which gives us a perspective of what’s coming in the future. So, talking about voice, Siri gets 25 billion requests a month. Just think about that. 25 billion requests, Craig.

– Yeah, but Ian, how many of them are unique? How many of them are repeats from people going, no Siri, I meant… No, Siri, no, I meant, I meant.

– Like my son’s, hey, Siri, can you do this maths equation for me? Or tell me what the weather is.

– I don’t have an answer for that. Is there something else I can help you?

– There you go. All right. What they were saying was, with Siri, there are 20 more facts, 20 times more facts than three years ago. So, obviously that data is building up. What’s actually really interesting they can run neural detection on the device. So, I think the devices are getting to a stage now where there is so much computational power on these devices in our pockets that they’re able to do a lot of things on the device, which is fascinating.

– So, what does that mean? Does that mean it’s per device or like if you upgrade your phone, get another phone, does it transfer that learning over or is it done on the fly? It’s not a historical thing or? Yeah.

– Because it builds a pattern over time. So, it is obviously done and stored on the device, but I don’t know whether when you migrate… I’m assuming that when you do, it should be transferring that because you’re upgrading a device, I’m assuming Apple would’ve kept that. They’re not going to start again. So, I would suspect it goes… Another thing that they said was the 40% increase in messages and the two times increase in shared conversations, now, you can see Whatsapp has a market and so does WeChat, and I think what Apple’s trying to do is get into that market and have a part of that. So, just all the improvements they’ve announced with messages and what’s going to happen ahead is actually really interesting and even using the neural detection and everything on the devices will drive a lot of that. Here’s an opportunity, listeners, Apple Maps is going to really do a big push on places and make it richer. So, if you have a store, a restaurant, a business that has a shop front, this is an opportunity for you. I’d be getting on there, learning more about it and how to actually utilize it because they’re going to push this more to the four so that people can actually get to where they want to be at the right time and get what they want in the right moment. Even to the point where they’re making these, what they call applets, which is a small part of an app, and can be read by the NFC, the QR code, messages and maps, and they’re basically trying to create something where it just makes it far too easy to rock up somewhere and point at your phone and go, okay, I need this, I need to make an order. I’ve got to download this app. It can just download a part of the app, fulfill a transaction and you’re off. And there’s an opportunity for listeners to think about, well, what does that mean for the businesses we work in? So, there’s some fascinating things coming and I love cars. One of the other things about Maps, they’ve got EV routing based on the car you have. So, I understand the car and where those charging stations are and the next one is rolling out now in 2021 is a digital key for a BMW five series where you can unlock the car, start the car and you can share the key, Craig. So, if I had the car, I can share the key with you if I knew that you were coming to pick me up, I could share the key with you without actually having to give it to you and you can pick up the car and it’ll probably tell you where the car is too.

– Yeah, these are all the things that seem… Like that’s not hard, right? There’s no technology breakthrough to do that. It’s just about implementing it well. It’s all about the execution, isn’t it? Making it easy. I would love to just have my phone for everything. My front door, my office door, my car, everything and also replaceable, so I could easily share it across all my phones, you know if I had multiple devices and things like that, it just seems so much better. I don’t know why it’s taken so long. Anyway, doesn’t matter.

– I think a lot of it has to do with integration into the cars. They run a lot of very different systems and lots of different control units as I’ve learnt over the time of owning cars and having mechanics that we help, the number of control units in a car and the number of detection systems has really, like it’s gone up considerably. So, everything has to talk to one another and obviously having Apple Car Play in cars, was their first step to get through to all of this. Now, I think there was an astounding number, it’s like 80% of cars on the road now have Apple Car Play. So, I think that was step number one. This is step number two. Now let us use this to do everything else. So, there you have it. All right, listeners, as we finish, our quote of the week, it says, and this is from Rory Sutherland, Craig.

– Yeah. So, Rory Sutherland, he’s written a book called Alchemy, which I’m enjoying at the moment and thank you to Kylie, who recommended this book to me. Here’s the quote, “A flower is simply a weed with an advertising budget.” That’s out of context. Within the book, it’s a wonderful analogy for marketing in general and I’m really enjoying the book.

– That’s gold, Craig. Now, listeners, there are some bonus links. When you have a chance, have a look at them. Again, we would love you to connect with us on LinkedIn. Please connect with us, tell us you listen to the show, because everyone connects and tries to sell us something. So, connect, listen to the show and we would love to connect with you, have a chat and thank you to all the listeners that send us feedback and questions, we do appreciate it. Also, you can go up and sign up on the site and you will get a weekly email of the episodes that are coming out so you can get a link directly to it. Well, Craig, until next time.

– Catch you later, Ian.

– Thank you for listening to this episode of HubShots. For show notes, resources, HubSpot news, including practical strategies you can implement, visit us at HubShots.com.

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