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Episode 172: Sales workflows, clean lists, persona challenges, billboards

Welcome to Episode 172 of HubShots!

Welcome to HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

We hope you enjoy the podcast as much as HubSpot’s CEO, Brian Halligan does.

This episode we chat through sales workflows, keeping contact lists clean, challenges with personas, plus advertising on billboards.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/172-sales-workflows-clean-lists-persona-challenges-billboards

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD3Uo4X-IxPJLE8ygPDQhNQ

Subscribe to our Spotify channel here: https://open.spotify.com/show/7oee8w41riN5aRNrLKT2ar

Join the Facebook group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/hubshots/

Follow us on Twitter here: https://twitter.com/hubshots

Follow us on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/hubshotspodcast/

Follow us on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hubshots/

Recorded: Wednesday 04 September 2019 | Published: Saturday 14 September 2019

Shot 1: Inbound Thought of the Week

We are recording this on the start of Inbound, and since you are listening to this after Inbound there will be a bunch of new product announcements to go through.

With that in mind, we’re not going to focus on features this episode, instead we’re going to mainly focus on ways to use HubSpot to improve your business.

Love drinking coffee that’s kept at the right temperature. Thanks Ember mug! Listen to shot 7 in Episode 163 for more details:


Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Keeping your contact lists clean to improve email deliverability. It is important to segment your contacts.

To clean up your contact lists, use any of the following contact properties to get more context about their original source and why they’re engaging with your business.

  • Create date
  • Last email date
  • Recent conversion date
  • Last form submission
  • Last email opened
  • Last email clicked
  • Last reply
  • Last date purchased
  • Last activity date

If your contacts are more than one year old, run a re-engagement campaign to confirm that they are still interested in your content and hearing from you.  Also would be worth running them through NeverBounce as an additional check.

Did you know? A spam complaint rate of 0.1% on a single email is a red flag that will increase your chances of bouncing or landing in the spam folder.


Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Creating deals using workflows.  As an example, you can create a deal when you get to a particular deal status.

Tip: think about what information you want in the deal specifically if sales are working on it.


Shot 4: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

Associating deal activities.  If you create them from a workflow they won’t have the associated activity to start.  So be aware of this.


Special shout out to Joy from HubSpot support.

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

Using Billboards

0 BdPOu4IfzEGuXS G(in an Inboundy way of course)

What we take away from this:

  • If Brian did not live and work in San Francisco for a month he would not have had that revelation about billboards
  • He learned is that there are some clever ways to measure effectiveness.
  • He learned they need to keep them very simple.


Shot 6: Insight of the Week

Mapping your personas to ad targeting

You can prepare your personas in a number of ways. Often they are based on roles or function (ie job titles or department), however they can also be approach based, as well as

For example, some clients use approach based personas eg

  • Innovator / Early Adopter
  • Collaborator
  • Analytical / Functionality


This is all fine in terms of preparing content and messaging. But can be challenging when preparing targeting for ad campaigns eg how do you target an innovator on Facebook?

These personas end up needing an extra level of mapping. And usually this needs to include titles and interests.

Some further reading:



Shot 7: Podcast of the Week

2Bobs with David C Baker and Blair Enns


We love David C Baker:


Shot 8: Shoutouts of the Week

Glenn Miller  from Lupo Digital


Zoe Palmer from Brand Chemistry:


Shot 9: Quote of the Week

Advice for modern marketers.  Automate the buying process.  Users are expecting you to automate their processes.  They want a self-service experience with your company.

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week


Tools to try


Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

Episode 171: Workflow Go Action, the pain of HubSpot Quarantine

Welcome to Episode 171 of HubShots!

HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

We hope you enjoy the podcast as much as HubSpot’s CEO, Brian Halligan does.

This episode we chat about HubSpot’s new Go Action in Workflows, the trauma of having a contact list get quarantined, plus a look at how Seth Godin is using Instagram

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/171-workflow-go-action-the-pain-of-hubspot-quarantine/

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD3Uo4X-IxPJLE8ygPDQhNQ

Subscribe to our Spotify channel here: https://open.spotify.com/show/7oee8w41riN5aRNrLKT2ar

Join the Facebook group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/hubshots/

Follow us on Twitter here: https://twitter.com/hubshots

Follow us on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/hubshotspodcast/

Follow us on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hubshots/

Recorded: Tuesday 27 August 2019 | Published: Friday 6 September 2019

Shot 1: Inbound Thought of the Week

Plant based KFC

KFC is about to offer Beyond Meat chicken:


I learnt a new word:  flexitarian : a person who consumes mainly vegetarian food but occasionally eats meat or fish


Btw Seeing the word ‘fried’ coming back – turns out that wasn’t the reason they rebranded to KFC in the 90s:


HUGcast – September 2019

The Sydney HubSpot User Group (HUG) is coming up on Wednesday 25 September 2019.

At the event we’ll be recording a podcast about how to get started recording a podcast.

It will also be our post Inbound event with takeaways from the conference.

Look for details here:


Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Workflow branch joins

Using Go in workflows to connect branches


XEN   Deal   Testing Deal Closed Won Trigger   HubSpot

Currently in Company, Deal and Ticket workflows.

Can’t wait for this to be added to Contact workflows as well.

Influenced revenue report – thanks Justin

Reports > Analytics Tools > Campaign Analytics:

hubshots influnced revenue


Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

3  lead scoring   YouTube

A really good and simple reminder about manual lead scoring.


Shot 4: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

Where are all the new releases?

===> waiting for Inbound19

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

Using smart content:


Shot 6: Insight of the Week

There are Google Ads, and then there are More Ads:


Interesting use of Instagram by Seth Godin:


Eg he ran an Instagram Live and Facebook Live event:


Shot 7: App Integration of the Week


Ran into some issues with email delivery this week and had to use NeverBounce.  Here are some of the results as we connected it to HubSpot to do the validation and then pushed the data back.

But how do you check it? They will attempt to create a HubSpot property named “neverbouncevalidationresult” to store the NeverBounce validation result (valid, invalid, disposable, catchall, and unknown).

NeverBounce   Dashboard


Shot 8: Resource of the Week



Shot 9: Quote of the Week

“Different’ and ‘new’ is relatively easy. Doing something that’s genuinely better is very hard.”

  • Sir Jony Ive

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week

Yet another post about doing a simple SEO audit:


Interesting link experiment going on by Dejan SEO (after their main site was penalised):


Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

HubShots episode 171

Episode 170: Popup forms (again), Email for sales teams, interns doing your social

Welcome to Episode 170 of HubShots!

HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

This episode we chat about popup forms (yes again!) plus more on using HubSpot marketing automation to help sales.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/170-popup-forms-again-email-for-sales-teams-interns-doing-your-social/

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD3Uo4X-IxPJLE8ygPDQhNQ

Subscribe to our Spotify channel here: https://open.spotify.com/show/7oee8w41riN5aRNrLKT2ar

Join the Facebook group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/hubshots/

Follow us on Twitter here: https://twitter.com/hubshots

Follow us on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/hubshotspodcast/

Follow us on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hubshots/

Recorded: Tuesday 13 August 2019 | Published: Friday 30 August 2019

Shot 1: Inbound Thought of the Week

The Socials

Don’t get me started… I just need to accept it.

All the interns do – more on that in shot 6.

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Popup forms

Remember when we used to talk about Lead Forms every second episode? Yes, we’re back on it again. This time with a HubSpot post where they give a basic overview of the way to use Popup forms:


The post links to an analysis of whether popup forms are effective:


In particular they ask whether there’s such a thing as an Inbound Popup form: Should Marketers Use Pop Up Forms  A Comprehensive Analysis

Here’s the relevant note they make:

“If you ask someone how they feel about pop-ups, they’re likely to offer an emotional response that loosely resembles a child eating vegetables (I call this expression “blegh”).

People hate the idea of pop-ups. Most pop-ups out there are annoying. What’s more, the pop-ups that annoy you the most are the ones you’ll remember the longest.

But here’s the thing: not all pop-ups are bad. Pop-ups can be used for good, and they can be a healthy part of an inbound strategy.

Just think about email marketing for a second. Email is another example of a channel that has been heavily abused. We’ve all gotten some crappy emails throughout the years. But as inbound marketers, we know to use email responsibly and to only send contextualized email that adds value to people’s lives.

The same goes for pop-ups. When used correctly, they can actually enhance the experience a user has on your website, as well as boost your conversion rates.”

I (Craig) aren’t a fan of popups, but I love the slide-in forms.

I also really love the ease at which you can set the Thank you actions in a button:

Pop Up Forms   HubSpot 2

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Automating sales communication from marketing

One way marketing can help sales is by sending updates.  This could be product, news or something specific to that list.  It is a great way to keep in touch with people while removing this work from sales so they can be communicating with prospects and existing customers.

You will most likely when you do this get a lot of bounces (soft or hard) and I would suggest you create lists for each contact owner/sales person to follow up.  This is a great reason for making a call!

Tip:  you can create a single marketing email with smart content that is sent from the contact owner.

For other ideas around using workflows for sales, listen to episode 164:


Shot 4: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

This is a gotcha free episode. Yay!

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

Following the entire marketing and sales process from start to finish.

Recently we found that sales calls were not being answered or not getting through.  We discovered this as we integrated the calling system with HubSpot and while checking lead quality noticed that little to no calls were being answered.

We do this on a regular basis with the business to gain lead intelligence and see if there are questions we need to be addressing on the channels they communicate.

Tip:  have a regular process to monitor and check lead quality.

Shot 6: Insight of the Week

Thinking about engagement on the socials…

How many highly effective leaders do you know that manage their own social profiles?

Working with marketing managers we are increasingly seeing the marketing department managing the personal social profiles (eg LinkedIn) of their company leaders (eg CEO).

They post on their behalf, engage, and even answer DMs on their behalf.

Which begs the question – if our clients are doing it for their bosses, how many other companies are doing it. And interpolating further, how much of the ‘engagement’ you see from people on LinkedIn is actually them?

It’s possible we are heading to a place where LinkedIn is just a bunch of interns all chatting to each other using their bosses profiles…

Remember this next time you are spending a ton of money on ads.

More: https://www.craigbailey.net/social-engagement/

Shot 7: Integration of the Week

Inbound Add-ons SMS in HubSpot


Send and receive SMS text messages in HubSpot (use workflows, contacts)

Shot 8: Resource of the Week

Clients typically…


A good way to help improve client expectations.

It’s written for agencies, but applies equally to all services business. A good thought for marketing managers and sales professionals in their conversations.

Shot 9: Quote of the Week

“Never forget that absolutely everything you do is for your customers. Make every decision—even decisions about whether to expand the business, raise money, or promote someone—according to what’s best for your customers.”

― Derek Sivers, Anything You Want

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week

Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

HubShots episode 170


– [Ian] Hi everyone, welcome to HubShots, episode 170. In this episode, we talk about popup forms, emails for sales teams, and interns doing your social. You’re listening to Asia Pacific’s number one HubSpot focus podcast, where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks, and features for growing your marketing and sales results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found, and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. How are you Craig?

– [Craig] Oh look, I’m good, Ian, and I’m right across the socials, I gotta tell you.

– [Ian] I’m sure you are, Craig.

– [Craig] The socials, seriously we can’t escape that, can we?

– [Ian] We can’t.

– [Craig] You know I’ve got a bit of a bugbear about this?

– Yes we do.

– The way people say, “Oh we share it on social”. I’m okay with that, they say, “I share it on the socials”.

– [Ian] And you know what’s interesting? More and more I’m finding people I talk to in businesses, especially marketing, are actually referring to social media as the social, so there you go.

– Yeah, I can’t escape it so I’ve gotta embrace it. So regular listeners will know I had a big whinge about this, I don’t know, couple of months ago, ’cause I just couldn’t embrace change, you know? Change, I just can’t handle it.

– [Ian] You just need to hug it, Craig.

– [Craig] I need to hug it. All my clients is calling it the socials now, so I’ve gotta adapt, but look, all the interns are across the socials, we’re covering that in shot six.

– [Ian] All right, so, onto our HubSpot marketing feature for the week, Craig, and this is to do with popup forms. Now you know we’ve spoken about popup forms.

– [Craig] Well, lead forms, we just love them. Remember, how many episodes did we have talking about lead flows?

– [Ian] Quite a few.

– [Craig] Actually they weren’t called lead forms, they were lead flows, weren’t they?

– [Ian] Yes, they were.

– [Craig] Yeah, and no one knew what that meant, so…

– [Ian] And now they’ve become popup forms!

– Hence why we had so many episodes talking about how awesome they are. So they’re called popup forms now, but that in itself is problematic in a way, because no one likes popup forms. Well, I don’t think anyone like, do you like popup forms, Ian?

– [Ian] If it provides me value on the page that I’m at, well possibly.

– [Craig] If it’s done in an inboundy way, right?

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] Yeah well, anyway, the reason we’re mentioning it is because well, forms are awesome. I like the slide-ins. I personally don’t like popup forms, that’s just my particular bias, and I’m imposing that on everyone else. I assume that if I don’t like it, everyone else doesn’t like it, but the stats would show that I’m wrong, and we’ve got a blog post, actually we’ve got two blog posts from HubSpot talking about forms, one is just a bit of an overview of popup forms in HubSpot, but it links off to another one we’ve put in the show notes, where they actually talk about an analysis of the results from popup forms, and they do really well. So I guess it’s always that balance between what we think is a bad user experience versus what the actual results are. Test and measure.

– [Ian] Like a lot of ways, if anything, when HubSpot have implemented this, I use the slide-in form often, and on the rare occasion I use the exit intent popup form, which is fine, and one thing that really annoys me with popup forms, and these are not HubSpot ones, but if I go to sites and I land there, and then within like two seconds I’ve got a form and I haven’t even actually read the page that I’m on. That really annoys me. Think about what you’re doing, and what the customer experience is, because if you’ve been there for a while, and you’re exiting, that’s fine, but if you’ve just landed there within like two seconds and the first thing you’re greeted with is a popup form to sign up for a discount or sign up to the newsletter, like, just get rid of it.

– [Craig] I agree, and you know what? It’s easy to test that, because with the popup form, what you could do is you could test for a couple of weeks, then change the popup duration, like how long the delay is before it pops up, only change that in the form, test that for another couple of weeks, then change it again, make it longer before it pops up. You could also check how far, whether they have to scroll down, things like that. So you could actually test it just to see the results change. However, the thing that I wanted to highlight in the show today, is just some of thank you options that you have.

– [Ian] I know, these seem to have expanded since we last looked at this.

– [Craig] Yeah, they’re really good. Has that calendar event one been there for ages, and I just haven’t realized?

– No it hasn’t.

– Oh okay.

– Because I’ve been setting up these for a customer, and I haven’t seen it. So this even may not be available. It might actually not even show if haven’t got any calendar set up to actually choose.

– [Craig] I don’t think so, it’s not the meeting link. So it’s not actually tied to your own calendar. You’re actually adding a calendar event for them. So they can go through the form, fill it out–

– Oh!

– So for example, you might say sign up to, would you like to attend our, you know a call or an event that we’re running. They go yes, and then the thank you is, just basically a calendar event that gets added, either as an ICS or to their Google calendar directly. So it’s not like booking a meeting in with you, which is also another option, which is good, so you can have a meeting link in there.

– [Ian] Wow!

– [Craig] It’s kinda nice, I tested it this afternoon. It works really well.

– So Craig, what is this event that you’re having?

– [Craig] Well I just made a dummy event about our HubShots Live event, where we get a whole bunch of people to join us for a one hour call and we go through a whole bunch of HubSpot-related questions, perhaps gotchas, and help people out.

– [Ian] So just as Craig is saying this is a dummy event, Craig, I reckon we should actually have a live event where we actually do this.

– [Craig] HubShots Live.

– [Ian] HubShots Live.

– There you go.

– And then, if you’re in Sydney, maybe we can do a dinner with the two of us.

– [Craig] There you go.

– [Ian] There you go, I’ve put Craig on the spot here!

– [Craig] We’ll crowdsource this one. So listeners, if that’s of value, if that would provide value, get to spend some time with us and we’ll spend some time with you, chatting through problems that you’ve got in HubSpot, or questions, or even ideas, give your suggestions, teach us something, I’d love to know.

– Exactly. Or, even some of the great things that you’re doing and you’ve implemented in HubSpot. I’m always fascinated to see what people do with the HubSpot and the tools. I’m gonna shout out to Justin, because he often does some pretty interesting things.

– [Craig] He kinda goes the extra, doesn’t he?

– [Ian] He does. Okay Craig, onto our HubSpot sales pitch of the week. Now why I wanna talk about this is, and I’m gonna title this Automating Sales Emails from Marketing. One thing that we have done quite a bit when we work with sales teams is having update emails or news emails that sales teams can send about product or their services, and often they get stuck and they’re like, oh I don’t wanna email like 40 people that I know about this same thing. And I’m like, but you don’t have to do it, let us do it for you, and it can go from, we can make it look like you’ve sent the email, and this will apply to the whole sales team. So if Craig, I’m your contact owner, you will get an email from me. If, say, Brian’s contact owner is Bill, then Brian will get an email from Bill. So like, oh okay, cool. So it’s a really good way, A, to keep engaged with people, B, if they reply it goes back to the person in sales who actually actually owns that contact, which is really good. You really quickly know if contacts have moved, because a lot of the sales teams we deal with, they deal with the government, councils, and people move around. So that might not be valid now, so that it actually gives an opportunity to actually call up and actually find out who the new person is, or they often get an auto-reply saying, “Oh, I’m not in this role anymore, “you need to talk to Bill so-and-so”, and so you can update the information, right? And the third one is, you just have this constant communication and you keep your database clean. So you know, there’s a, what is that number that, it’s called–

– Wasn’t it in the billions? Are you talking about the effect of dirty data?

– No, the attrition.

– The yearly…

– Oh, the churn rates. So, around, it’s between 20 and 30% annually, yeah.

– Correct. So this kind of keeps that in check, and keeps your database clean. So they encourage you, and one of the things we do following this, is if anything has bounced, is actually have, we create a list, actually, of all the bounced emails, and we assign that list to that salesperson to actually follow up. So you can create tasks, which I’ve actually, we’ve done in some instances, if it’s a larger list, I generally export it. I still create a list, but I export it out of HubSpot, and I send it to the person to just have a quick check, and then make those updates in HubSpot, instead of clogging their task queue with like say 80 bounced emails and 80 tasks about checking a contact. So that’s what I wanted to highlight, and it’s a great way to keeping people engaged.

– [Craig] So the one I just wanted to pick up on that you mentioned there, that listeners might have, it might have just slipped through without them being alerted to it. So, sure there’s the personalization of who it comes from, but really like that idea of who the reply goes to. So we’ve all seen this in marketing situations, where it goes out from marketing@domain.com, and then the reply comes back and the marketer has to go, oh well that’s from this person in sales, I’ll forward it on to them kind of thing. And just having this contact owner, and the reply going back to them, is really good. However, the other thing to mention is, there is a reply to address, which can be different.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] So this is also the case if you do send out from actually the contacts, and there’s a huge amount of say, out of office and all those kind of things, you can get them to go back to a different reply to address which could be, maybe a junior on the sales team whose job it is to go through all of those and just check if there’s anything important.

– [Ian] Yeah, so that’s a great thing. And another thing I failed to mention, Craig, is you can use smart content in the email, based on particular people in a list, for example, and you can change that in the email, so you can personalize that to that person based on that segmentation or that smart list.

– [Craig] I think smart content is a really good addition to that. So you are actually getting this email, you know that the goal is? The goal is always to be sending those emails that Amazon send, right,

– Correct.

– That’s kinda like the gold standard. Whenever I get an email from Amazon, it’s like so tailored to me, it’s exactly what I want.

– [Ian] All you gotta do is press the button and buy, Craig.

– Yeah that’s right, press the button. So everyone’s goal is to get their marketing emails as good as the Amazon emails, that’s kinda the gold standard. This is just kinda part of the tool chest that kinda gets us along the path.

– [Ian] Yeah, and if you’re in marketing, this is a fantastic way to actually build relationship with sales and help them along, while adding to your benefits of actually seeing how they’re interacting with the business.

– [Craig] And also back in episode 164, we actually chatted about some other ways to automate using HubSpot to benefit the sales team, so go and check that out as well.

– [Ian] All right, Craig, onto our HubSpot gotcha of the week.

– [Craig] What is kind of strange about our HubSpot gotcha of the week this week, Ian?

– [Ian] Well, we haven’t got one, Craig.

– [Craig] I was wracking my brains, what could I possibly find–

– So was I!

– [Craig] What is in HubSpot that’s annoyed me this week? There was nothing. So, you know it’s a good week.

– You just must be doing good work, Craig.

– [Craig] Well, HubSpot, good job, HubSpot.

– [Ian] A shout out to HubSpot support. Okay, marketing tip of the week, Craig. Again, this is following back through from marketing to sales, I wanna highlight this is, about having a regular process to monitor and check your lead quality. So we do this with customers on a weekly basis for the high volume accounts, should I say, and one thing I’ve found, we’ve integrated the call tracking into HubSpot, so we can actually see when calls come in, they get logged into HubSpot, and we can actually listen to the calls and see what’s going on. So what interesting here, we run a lot of paid advertising on the socials, and on Google Ads, and what’s interesting to see, is as these calls are coming in, and there was a point when I was looking into this account, and we just listened to calls, a few at first purely for lead quality, to understand what people are asking, whether we’re not answering any questions, but secondly, how qualified are these people and what sort of, can we make the qualification better with our ads and the landing page, et cetera. And what I discover, all these calls were coming in, because they were saying, oh the leads are really bad, we’re not getting anything. And I’m like, hang on, how is stuff coming in, listen to the calls, so I see all these things going into HubSpot, listen to the calls, you get the welcome message, okay that’s good, then you’ll get the hold music, and then, the call goes nowhere, and it just says, yeah, thanks for calling, no one could answer your call, hang up.

– [Craig] Are you kidding me? So they’re spending a fortune on paid on the socials, they’re sending all this traffic, they’re getting calls, and then they’re just not answering them.

– They’re not answering the calls.

– [Craig] Yeah, well those leads are really bad. Obviously there’s a problem with the marketing.

– It’s terrible, there is a–

– [Craig] Oh man, that drives me nuts when that happens. What next? What happened as a result of that?

– [Ian] Well, I’ve been chasing the IT company to fix the call routing, right. Oh, there’s a call!

– [Craig] Just put them on hold for a couple of minutes. Give them the great experience and then complain if they hang up.

– [Ian] Exactly.

– [Craig] Yeah, and they don’t stick around. Oh, low quality call there.

– So there you go. Here’s a perfect example. I just wanted to highlight, make sure, even if you’re in marketing, this is what I do, I do a random check every week, of certain leads from certain lead sources, and just make sure that we’re actually hitting the mark, we’re missing the mark. So you know very quickly that things are getting mixed and you can highlight that to the business, because they might not be aware of some issues that are actually taking place, and I think if you can do that and stay on top of it, you get a much better result.

– [Craig] You know what, this just reminded me, this need for testing and checking, I wish, I’ll give you an example of something I stuffed up recently. But it’s so important to be checking these things. So you’re always running new campaigns, right, but then someone hasn’t done the kind of the mystery shopping at the end to check that it’s actually still getting a good service. It’s Anyway, I’ll give you an example, not related to paid or anything, but I have a link to our website in our email signature, right, which is pretty normal. Now the way I set it up years ago, probably years ago now, is it basically goes to xen.com.au/i, right, it was smallest letter I could see, and all that does, ’cause it’s in my signature, as the link, not in the actual, you don’t actually see it, is that when it gets to the site, it redirects it and it puts some UTM parameters on so that I could tell it came from an email signature, right. This is pretty standard stuff, right. Anyway, that i, that /i, all it does is a redirect to the main page with the UTM parameters. You can see where I’m going here, right? Anyway, I was just checking the, by chance, clicking the link in my signature today, and it goes to /i, which returns a 404, and I was like, “What?” Anyway, that’s when I remembered, then when I moved all our sites over, from shared hosting to a dedicated server, whatever that redirect file, ’cause I had it in the root of the server–

– [Ian] Of the server, yes.

– [Craig] Yeah, somehow that got missed, so a whole bunch of redirects didn’t get brought over. So then my email signature link, it has not been working for months, Ian.

– Oh dear, Craig.

– Months, can you believe that? I don’t know how many people click on it in my signature. Well, none that I can measure in the last couple of months, but I used to get a few clicks. I’m just like, what a bad impression that must get

– Actually–

– [Craig] My email signature doesn’t even work.

– [Ian] If you go to the HubSpot sales tool, you could probably figure something out, whether they’ve clicked a certain link, right?

– [Craig] Well I can tell before it stopped, because I used to track it with UTM parameters. So I used to see how many people were clicking through, and there’d be at least a couple a week, you know, they’d click through from the… Anyway, they’ve all been getting a bad experience lately.

– [Ian] Well, you don’t exist, Craig.

– [Craig] I don’t exist. So there you go. So there’s a simple example of just something related to a server change with hosting, I didn’t think to test it. I don’t know how I would have caught it in hindsight, other than, I don’t know, if some… I mean how many people have a process to test the links in their email signature? Oh, because we’ve had this before, I’ve actually clicked on people from HubSpot, their email signature doesn’t work. And then I let them know, of course. Well, no one’s let me know, but, I found out the hard way.

– [Ian] Well there you go.

– [Craig] So, one of my own stuff ups. Easy to do, gotta test, gotta keep checking.

– [Ian] Exactly. Keep a link register. All right, Craig, onto the insight of the week, to give out engagement on the socials.

– [Craig] Yes, on the socials, thank you. So, I’ll just tell you a little story. So we were on a client site yesterday, and this client, and we’ve worked with them for many years, they’ve just been acquired, and so there’s a big all staff meeting and it’s being announced. They’ve been acquired by an ASX listed company, so everything’s gotta be… I don’t know if you’ve ever done this before, when those kind of things, announcements go out to the market, there’s a very standard, or a very clear process you need to do in terms of alerting the market. Anyway, so we had blog posts lined up, and the client had prepared this, and as part of that, there’s a whole social announcement that goes out, because there’s a number of things that you need to contain all at once. For starters, there’s staff, because 90% of the staff of both companies, the one being acquired and not being acquired don’t know, it’s all done at leadership team level. Second there’s the market, because it could impact, you know, impact share prices and things like that, and then there’s through just about clients finding out as well, so that you don’t want them hearing from someone else and then they go to the website and there’s no announcement. So there’s a whole lot of things that need to be coordinated. Why am I telling you all this? Well, part of that is the social piece, sharing on social. So what happens is, the marketing, I was working there with the marketing manager, and the marketing team, and so as the announcement went out, and the CEO of this company was making his announcement to the staff, we are at the same time, announcing that, blog post goes live, and we’re announcing it on socials. It all has to go out on the social channels at the same time. A lot of that has to be done manually, because you can’t kind of pre-schedule linking to blog posts because it pre-fills the kind of the image and metadata, which wouldn’t be live yet. So, we had to do it all at once. So we’re actually there managing the CEO’s LinkedIn page, LinkedIn personal profile, and of course an article that they’re putting out, the CEO’s putting out. So marketing is controlling all of this, and so this is all just a big lead-up to then finding out the general process. The general process for the CEO is that it’s all managed by marketing, their personal LinkedIn profile. And so when this announcement went out, it’s not just sharing things, but there’s also responses and they were getting a lot of direct messages, DMs coming, all being answered by the marketing team, right, of which I’m part, a third party right, an agency. So here’s the setup. Like, here’s the question. How often does this happen? And it turns out, well what we’re finding with our clients, is quite often the leaders of the companies, while they do actually access their social profiles, LinkedIn from time to time, but most of the time, it’s being handled by marketing. And here’s the further thing. Often it’s being handled by the most junior people in marketing, ’cause it’s like a, what do they call it, like a five dollar task, as they say. So here’s my kind of scenario. I wonder how much of this engagement that’s happening on social, especially LinkedIn and that, is actually just a bunch of interns managing all the profiles of their bosses, engaging with each other, and the question is, like, the leaders of the company, why aren’t they doing that, I would say. Well they’ve actually got high impact things to do. Much more efficient use of their time than actually mucking round on social. So, that’s kind of just my thought that I’m thinking through, especially when it comes to the fortune that we’re paying on paid ads for many of our clients, especially on LinkedIn, and then especially when they get no results. It’s all kind of falling together. Like, if it’s only a bunch of interns, like, LinkedIn is just a bunch of interns engaging for their bosses, they’re not filling in forms and responding to ads in a way that that their targeted boss might. So just something to be aware of in your paid advertising spend, and thinking through that, test and measure of course, as we say, but really, I was trying to think, and I don’t have an answer for this, was how do we actually test for this, or how do we write ads to target those people, yet be aware that it’s probably not those people that are actually there, but it’s actually their staff or interns underneath. So maybe there needs to be an upsell which is, you need this for your boss who, wink wink, we know is you. Download this and give it to your boss and look like a star because we know you’re managing the boss’s account anyway.

– Correct.

– Anyway, that’s just my bit of a rambling thought of the week, but just something that I’m considering, and it’s all about getting ROI, right. How do we get the best ROI and just to be mindful of.

– [Ian] Absolutely. All right, Craig, onto our integration of the week, and this week we’re gonna talk about having SMS in HubSpot, and this is one of, someone we know, Samantha from Inbound Addons.

– [Craig] Yes, and hello Samantha if you’re listening. Big supporter in the past, so yeah.

– [Ian] We haven’t caught up for a while. Was she at Grow with Inbound?

– [Craig] Yes, she was.

– [Ian] Did you catch up with her?

– [Craig] Yes I did.

– [Ian] Oh good, I missed her. Sam, sorry I missed you. Would have been good to catch up. Yeah, so this integrates into HubSpot, you can trigger the SMS off a workflow, it goes against their contact record, and let’s say, I think it’s $47USD a month.

– [Craig] It’s very reasonable.

– Plus your costs.

– Plus actually your message sends, yep.

– [Ian] Yeah, so I think definitely if you’re looking for a solution that can do SMS, this is a really good one that you can actually implement. All right, Craig, onto our resource of the week.

– [Craig] Nice blog post by Karl Sakas, who we saw at Inbound couple of years ago, he was really good. He does coaching for agencies predominantly, but this post could apply to anyone and it’s–

– [Ian] It’s an excellent post.

– [Craig] So yeah, what’s the post about?

– [Ian] It’s about how you phrase things appropriately when you speak to customers or prospective customers, and one of the things I really picked up from there was, he mentions like, instead of talking to them, you kinda say our customers would typically do this, or our customers typically would use this service to solve this problem, which kinda gives it a different kinda feel to how we would naturally speak.

– [Craig] I think that’s really good, so when they say, “Oh, so how much should we spend?”, instead of saying, “Oh we think you should spend”, it’s well, “Clients typically spend X amount “to get X result”, and it’s a really nice way of positioning it–

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] Without being too kind of direct to them. I think that’s a really good idea. So as I said, this post, he writes for agencies, but for any service company, marketing managers, have a read, some really good ideas there.

– [Ian] Yeah, it is a fantastic piece.

– [Craig] And also way to protect yourself from agencies that try and use these tips to their own use.

– [Ian] All right Craig, on to our quote of the week, and this is from Derek Sivers, is it?

– [Craig] Yeah, he’s written this nice little book. He started a website called CD Baby back in late 90s, ’99 I think, just before the dot com boom, and this is a little book of advice, it’s really short, just read it in one afternoon, where he gives a whole bunch of, I guess his thoughts on growing a business, and in particular, one overriding theme was the quote that you’ve picked out.

– [Ian] That’s right. It says, “Never forget that absolutely everything you do “is for your customers. “Make every decision, even the decisions about “whether to expand the business, raise money, “or promote someone, according to what’s best “for your customers.” I need not say anything more, Craig. Well listeners, we would love you to leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to this, as this helps us reach people. And it can be as simple as clicking those stars on the app.

– [Craig] They could actually give us a comment on the socials as well.

– [Ian] That’s right. We’d love you to connect with us. Please hit us up on Instagram, Facebook, we would love to hear from you. And if you’ve got any questions, we would love to have the questions, so we can actually help you and help others in the community solve those issues. Well, Craig, I hope you have a lovely week, and listeners, until next time.

– [Craig] Catch you later, Ian.

– [Ian] Thank you for listening to this episode of HubShots, for show notes, resources, HubSpot news, including practical strategies you can implement, visit us at hubshots.com.

Episode 169: Community Events, plus When to redo your website

Welcome to Episode 169 of HubShots!

HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips, features and strategies for growing your sales and marketing results.

This episode we chat about community marketing events, HubSpot sales and marketing features, plus how to respond if your boss says ‘we need to redo the website’.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/169-community-events-plus-when-to-redo-your-website/

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD3Uo4X-IxPJLE8ygPDQhNQ

Subscribe to our Spotify channel here: https://open.spotify.com/show/7oee8w41riN5aRNrLKT2ar

Join the Facebook group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/hubshots/

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Follow us on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hubshots/

Recorded: Thursday 08 August 2019 | Published: Friday 23 August 2019

Shot 1: Inbound Thought of the Week

Community events

GROW with HubSpot

Interesting takeaways:

12  The True Story of Naadam   The World s Fairest Cashmere   YouTube

Graham Hawkins

  • Pruning old irrelevant content to improve your SEO via Matt Barby:

Matthew Howells Barby

Sydney SEO Dinner – Matt Barby was there.

Organised by James Norquay who organises the Online Marketing Sydney meeting:


Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Email Overview Report – new version available in some portals:


Marketing Email   HubSpot 1

Not all portals have access to it, instead you’ll get this:

Permissions required   HubSpot

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

HubSpot Video for sales

HubSpot Video is available in pro and enterprise versions of the Sales, Marketing, and Service Hubs.

With HubSpot Video sales teams have a simple way to create 1-to-1 and share videos inside of HubSpot.

Here is what it looks like to do within HubSpot

Craig Bailey

What it looks like on the timeline:

Craig Bailey 1


Shot 4: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

Changing custom property values used in a dropdown – they won’t automatically flow through to workflow logic eg triggers or branching logic etc

However contact values will update based on the index of the item chosen.


A custom property has dropdown with A, B and C

Select A on a contact record and save.

Use branching logic that checks for A on a contact

Now change the custom property dropdown options to be X, Y and Z

The contact record value will automatically update to X

The branching logic will continue to check for A on the record

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

Be wary of getting emails from ‘Google Ads reps’ saying they need to fix issues in your Google ads accounts:


6  Gil Gildner on Twitter   Hi  GoogleAds can you explain why you re emailing our clients saying we  denied to take down the update    ppcchat https   t co wTZiKEecVo    Twitter

These are often outsource agencies using junior people who aren’t well trained, who end up damaging your Ads account.

Shot 6: Insight of the Week

“We need to re-do our whole website…”

A trap you can fall into when results aren’t what you’d like is to focus on ‘redoing the website’.

We’ve both had conversations this week with companies who are planning to completely redo their website under the assumption it will significantly improve results.

We chat through our approach to this, including:

  • Ensuring proper tracking is in place that allows examination of what is working and what’s not
  • So that you can gain insight into what needs fixing
  • Often it’s not the website, but rather the messaging on pages not being aligned with the target audiences
  • Think through your copywriting approach

Shot 7: Integration of the Week

Xero integration with HubSpot just announced, at this stage it is a simple contact sync from Xero to HubSpot.  We hear that from November it will have a lot more features.


Shot 8: Resource of the Week

Ecommerce as video


Read up on Livestream ecommerce, which is huge in China. We will be discussing this topic in detail in a future episode.

Shot 9: Quote of the Week

“Many companies have forgotten they sell to actual people. Humans care about the entire experience, not just marketing or sales or service. To really win in the modern age, you must solve for humans.” –@dharmesh

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week

Crazy collection of awesome calculators:


Rand Fishkin thread on Google’s response to Congress when asked whether less than 50% of clicks on Google go to non-Google properties:


Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

HubShots Episode 169: Community Events, plus When to redo your website


– [Ian] Hi everyone, welcome to HubShots, episode 169. We discuss HubShot tips, tricks, and features for growing your sales and marketing results. In this episode, we’re going to talk about community market events, HubSpot sales and marketing features, plus how to respond if your boss says, “We need to redo our website, Craig.” My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found, and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. How are you, Craig?

– [Craig] Look, I’m good, and gee, I think we need to redo our website.

– [Ian] Yes, and we’re going to talk about this, because I’ve had this being asked at me a few times this week.

– [Craig] Yeah, I’ve had it as well this week. Someone saying, “Oh, do you think we should focus on our website?” So we’ll come up to that, I think, in Shot 6: Insight of the Week.

– [Ian] All right, onto our INBOUND Thought of the Week, Craig. And we both attended GROW with HubSpot this week, in Sydney. And I have to say, I was a bit surprised.

– [Craig] Surprised in a good way?

– [Ian] Yes, surprised to see the number of people there. It’s the first time they’ve charged, and, to see the number of people that were in attendance shocked me a little bit. But, you know, I think it’s fantastic, and I think it’s that thing, if you pay money, you turn up.

– [Craig] It was very well attended, and I thought the quality of the talks was very good. I don’t think there was a single session… I wasn’t there for all of them, I have to say, I missed some of them at the start. But the ones I attended, they were all high quality. And we’re actually going to pull out just a few of our takeaways from some of the sessions, three little micro-takeaways.

– [Ian] So, we went to one where we listened to Eric Newcomb from Shopify, and that was really interesting.

– [Craig] He was talking about branding, and he had some great examples and, you know the video that everyone responded to when he was… Fashion Brand?

– [Ian] Yes, the sweaters, right?

– [Craig] Yeah, the cashmere sweaters. So, they were called Naadam, N-A-A-D-A-M, and they have some awesome videos, so we’ve included a link to that. And why are we including this? Because, well, you know, there’s lots of funny videos. But this particular one, it was just about their brand voice and their brand identity. What they stood for, all encapsulated in a couple minutes. I thought it was really good. Entertaining, but also educational about what they stand for and do. And I just thought it was really good. I kind of found it motivating.

– [Ian] It was. I love the video because it actually showed their entire, how the product started right through to their production, procurement, right to the end, through the sale. And why they did stuff and why they chose not to do things, and I really love that.

– [Craig] I don’t know if you were in the session with Graham Hawkins, you were probably in Matt Barby’s session at the time.

– [Ian] I was in Matt Barby’s session.

– [Craig] Yeah, well Graham Hawkins, he was talking about the social selling courtship process, which is, basically, if I was to summarize it, it’s, “Don’t spam.” It’s actually built on the well-known dating analogy. You know, just, kind of, gently, gently, and then build a relationship first. We’ve included one of the slides from his deck, which was really good. Just a nice little process for how to approach people on social. You’re trying to offer them value, if there’s a feared way, you can help them further. And that’s really the process.

– [Ian] Correct, always be helping, Craig. And now, I went to the Matt Barby session about SEO… [Craig] Which was absolutely packed. I got there a bit late and I was crammed up the back, I just couldn’t get in. I thought I was going to faint, it was so hot and crammed with people, very popular.

– [Ian] I loved the session, and I’ve been talking to people about this. But really, it came down to how Google searches change, and the immense change that’s happened in the last twelve months. And how Google have become better at understanding intent with search. And he used lots of great stories of things that have happened in HubSpot. You know, a piece of content that was getting a hundred thousand views a month, and went from hundred thousand almost down to zero. And how he went about, and his team went about, trying new things and trying to understand what was going on. And how they are now looking at content, and how they’re actually working with content, and working on understanding how search results work in different scenarios. So it was fascinating.

– [Craig] I think the interesting thing about that is that it doesn’t matter how big and advanced and successful you are at SEO, there’s always changes happening. So just don’t, you know… HubSpot, a content machine, they’re not immune. And so I’m interested to hear that drop and how they’ve, basically, analyzed it, found what’s changed, and then worked towards restoring the traffic.

– [Ian] Correct. So, he used a really good analogy, and I’ll just try to repeat it as best I can. He used an analogy of football, for example, right? So he knows if you’re a Manchester United fan and you do a search on a Wednesday, for example, Google understands it’s not a day when games are going on, so it might actually show you information about the team, might show you fixtures, might show you where they are in the ladder. If you do the same search on a Saturday or Sunday when they’re playing, you’re going to get results of the game, you’re going to get, “Would you like to buy tickets?” and how to get to the game would be one of them. The result and the experience is totally different to that on a Wednesday, for example. And it just made me realize, “wow!” Like, things have really shifted. And we know this, but when you hear it from somebody that’s doing this on a mass scale, like Matt, it just made me, you know, go think, “Wow!”

– [Craig] And this is what I really like about when you hear speakers like that. They’re actually doing it, they’re in the trenches doing it. Oh, well, he’s maybe not doing it hands on, but he’s overseeing it and he’s guiding the strategy to get stuff back and what’s working. So I really like to hear that. “Skin in the game,” as we say.

– [Ian] Yeah, and his whole thing was about doing more with less, so, essentially, using what you have and making it better to get a better result.

– [Craig] Now he had a slide that we’ve got in the show notes, which is really around analyzing content to prune it out if it’s not longer useful. He used the Brexit analogy for it.

– [Ian] He did! Anyway, he used the Brexit analogy and he actually gave seven points about how to prune irrelevant content off your site. And I’d encourage everyone to actually look at this, even if you are not doing SEO. Actually go through it and understand what it takes, because you can be asking the right questions to your agency, or the person that’s doing your SEO, and saying “Hey, have we actually looked at this stuff? “Or are we just cruising along?”

– [Craig] All right, lot’s of great value there. Now, just continuing the theme of events, and also with Matt Barby. I was actually at an SEO dinner last night. So this was the night after the HubSpot with GROW, Matt was still in Sydney. It’s the first time I’ve been to one of those, because, you know I’m not particularly social, right?

– [Ian] And you went by yourself, Craig?

– [Craig] I went by myself. I didn’t have anyone to hold my hand, oh dear! But it was actually really good. They were really friendly, really smart. And so, why am I mentioning all of this? Well, basically, even if you’re of my personality type, which is fearful, I guess, of getting out in social situations, it was really valuable. I met a whole bunch of smart SEO people, James Norquay from Prosperity Media here in Sydney, a great agency. He organized the meet-up, and it was really good. And I got to chat with Matt as well, and chatted about a few HubSpot things. So it was really good. So, to marketing managers and people working in digital and that, just join one of these groups. Go along, meet a few people, and get a whole bunch of ideas. And we were chatting about some of these over dinner tonight. Like, we do this agency stuff day in and day out, but I was just exposed to new ideas from people, so it really valuable.

– [Ian] All right, Craig. Onto our HubSpot marketing feature of the week. And this week we’re going to talk about the email of your report. And this is actually new, and it’s in Beta. Not every portal will have it, but we want to talk about it, because it is coming.

– [Craig] So, we’ve got a screen shot of it. I couldn’t believe this. I was looking through a client’s portal. They’re on Pro. And I thought, “Oh, what’s this email report? “Now this looks pretty good.” It’s the new email report. “Oh, I hadn’t seen that in mine.” Went into our own` agency portal. We’re in the prize portal, right? And I’m like, “Ah, cool, we’re in.” Oh, not here. And in fact, when I tried to go to link that would correspond to it, the URL… Nah, don’t have access.

– [Ian] You don’t have the keys, Craig.

– [Craig] No, not special. So I stuck with the old email report. But the new one looks really good. And we were going through this with a client, because they can just… Because we’ve got everything nicely in campaigns, right? At the top. You could do this with the old style as well, but you can just choose the campaign, drill into the emails, and you can see all the emails with that campaign grouped into a summary. So, if you’ve got brands or department visions, you can kind of get a sense of how the email marketing for those departments is going. Really useful. I just love how they’re always improving these kinds of things.

– [Ian] All right, Craig. Onto our sales feature of the week. And, I wanted to highlight this HupSpot video for sales. Now, we all know its been there for a while, but I think very few people use it. And, look, admittedly, I don’t use it that much, but I’m going to actually put my face on there and do it more often. So, anyway, we did a test, right? And it uses Vidyard, which is one of the integration partners with HubSpot. And I just want to encourage people. If you are in sales and you want to cut through the noise, it’s a really good way, and the tools are built in, literally. If you have a computer you can do this. It’s just about enabling it and recording the video.

– [Craig] Yeah, so you recorded this within HubSpot, right?

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] So, you were in the HubSpot, you were in My Contact record for this particular test. You just went an created it.

– [Ian] I hit the video button, yeah.

– [Craig] Hit the video, you recorded, sent it to me. It’s all hosted within HubSpot/Vidyard. So, yeah. It was quite a smooth process.

– [Ian] That’s right. So, if you’re in sales, I definitely encourage you to do this. If you’ve recorded ones, you might actually have ones that you can use on a regular basis. Say, you’re answering particular questions. Maybe it’s a, “Hi, my name is Ian, and I just want to introduce myself.” That’s a really simple video. You can actually keep that and reuse it many times over. All right, Craig, onto our HubSpot gotcha of the week.

– [Craig] This is an interesting one you highlighted to me today, around… It’s to do with setting up custom properties. So, we’re on a contact record instead of create a custom property. And it’s got its own drop-down, you’ve got A, B, C. And so, then, you ran into this issue where, if you changed the values on the drop-down, you couldn’t rely on them being changed throughout the system.

– [Ian] That’s right. So, the custom property, as most of you would know, you might be collecting a particular kind of information. So, as a test, let’s say you have a product and you’ve got product A, B, C. And your boss comes along and tells you, “Ah, I don’t want product A to be called product A. “Let’s change that to product AB.” And you’re like, “Okay, cool.” So, let’s save that against a contact record. So, Craig has now bought product A, which is now called product AB. If you look against his contact record, you’re going to see that it’s changed to AB. Now, this is what I found. I had this in a work-flow, where I was looking to send a particular email if you had product A, and a different email if you had product B. That did not change. So, when I did this test, and I thought, “Okay, I’ve now changed this to product AB, “if I request product AB now, I should get this email.” I didn’t get the email. And I went, “Oh, there’s something wrong.” Anyway, went to the work-flow, it’s looking for product A, which does not exist any longer. And therefore, if you have product AB, which used to be A, you don’t see anything. So you need to change the work-flow.

– [Craig] And I imagine that would impact… We didn’t test this, but you were talking about triggers or branching, things like that, based on the property value. So, the comparison that you are doing still looked for the value, as opposed to which reference they were. I imagine smart content would be the same. It probably wouldn’t switch out, it’d still be looking for an actual value.

– [Ian] Exactly. So, just something to be aware of if you’re using some of the logic within HubSpot. All right, Craig. Onto our HubSpot marketing tip of the week. And we have all seen these emails, so…

– [Craig] So, my clients get these as well. They’re an email from someone claiming to work from Google Ads, saying, “Oh, you’ve got problems with your account, and you need to change some things.” And they normally want to set up a call and walk you through.

– [Ian] That’s right. So, let me read some of this email. Because most people would have probably heard about this email. It say’s,

– [Craig] This is an example email you might get, yeah.

– [Ian] “Hi Craig, his is Rohit, your Google Ads “account manager. “I tried reaching your agency to provide important updates missing in your account. “They have denied to take down the update, “which might affect your performance. “I request you call me at the number given “and schedule a time, “by clicking the link below. “I look forward to hearing from you, Craig.”

– [Craig] Okay, so just… I’ll put this in context. So, this is an email… So, let’s say you’re an agency, like we are. And we say to our clients, “Oh, there’s this new feature “in Google Ads,” let’s say. “We don’t want you to use it.” Or, “It’s not appropriate for you.” Anyway, they get an email, not to us, the agency looking after the client’s account, but directly to the client, saying, “Ah, there is an error.” In fact, what does it say?

– [Ian] It says, “To provide the important updates missing in the account,” right? It’s kind of like, “oh there’s something missing, there’s something wrong.” They have “denied to take down the update.” It’s even terrible English, it hardly makes sense, right? So then the client will ring us, or you, or the agency, and go, “Oh, what’s going on, what’s…” And often they don’t even get to that, because they’ve spoken to the Google rep, who has already made changes in their account. And the problem is, they’re not actually a Google rep, for starters. They’re some out-sourced agency, by Google. Google has out-sourced it to them, but they’re not actually, officially, Google. And, often they’re just terrible. They’re juniors, they’re poorly trained, or not trained at all, and they give bad advice. And this is going on… If you’re on Twitter, you’ll see this often. People are complaining about this all the time. And they’re like, “really bad advice”, “they go and they destroy the accounts.” Great for Google. Spending, you know… You’re wasting more money, and stuff like that. But, anyway, we’ve linked to a thread on Twitter where this has been exposed. And, actually, Google Ads replied to this, and they were going, “Oh, sorry, let us look into it.” Everyone was piling on, going, “just how bad Google is,” and, “you’re terrible” and So, to listeners, to marketing managers, if you are working with an agency who is looking after your Google Ads, and you get these emails from people purporting to be Google reps, just be wary. Discuss it with your agency first, and just be informed on the changes that this Google rep is attempting to make you make in the account.

– [Ian] And, Craig, onto our insight of the week. Now, “Craig, you know what? “Our website’s not working. “We need to redo our whole website.” Now, this is something I heard, even today. And I asked why. And, you know, there was nothing wrong with the way the website looked. It was actually really well-designed. On brand, maybe the content could have been updated. And then, I said, “Why do you want to do that?” And they were a bit dumb-founded. They were like, “Oh.”

– [Craig] I think this is the go-to when you’re procrastinating. You’re not getting results and you’re like, “Ah, we’ve really got to redo our website.” Because that’s magically going to fix it all, right? So, this comes in a number of guises. But what do we always say? Who was it that first said to us, “solve for the problem”?

– [Ian] Yes, correct.

– [Craig] Who was that? Forget who said… Anyway, HubSpot, of course, pushed this line, “solve for the problem” all the time. Might have been Kip Bodnar, actually.

– [Ian] Kip, yes.

– [Craig] I remember, interviewed him way back in Episode, what was that? Thirty-four, or something like that, way back in…

– [Ian] It was a long time ago!

– [Craig] How you going, Kip? I wonder how he’s going? Anyway, “solve for the problem”. And this is it. Is the website the problem, or what’s the problem? Well, often you say, “Oh, what is the problem?” They don’t know. So, we, as marketers, need to be putting in place a framework where you can actually measure what the results are, so that, when there is a problem, and look, there’s plenty of problems, you’re actually solving for the most important problem. And quite often, the design of the website is not the most important problem.

– [Ian] Correct. So, there are some things that you can actually do to make sure that you are tracking things, and got the right information to make the right choices with what you want to do. One of the really simple things we do to start, Craig, is looking at Google Analytics, and looking at where people are landing, where people are going, where they’re falling off. That’s one thing, so, looking at the flow. Another thing we do is, we use a tool like Hotjar, to actually see how far people are scrolling, what are they clicking on, even recording sessions, to get an understanding of what people are doing. What’s stopping them from converting, or talking to the business. And, another thing could be, your content is terrible. Actually do a content audit, and see whether it makes sense and it actually flows.

– [Craig] Well that’s right. Just getting a good copywriter involved sometimes, it does a world of good. The other thing, you know, when you said Hotjar, and things like that, just, sometimes, speed of the site is so bad. You don’t need to redo your site. You’ve just got to get it on better hosting. How many times have we said that on this show?

– [Ian] We had one of those instances in this week!

– [Craig] Exactly!

– [Ian] That business has moved their site onto a WP engine. Because they were on a web . The business-owner says to me, he goes, “Wow, it’s so much quicker!” And that’s the reality of it. It’s like, don’t host your site in a bad neighborhood, I always say, because you’re bound to have someone hack it, you’re bound to have not the best windows and soundproofing, etc. And so it pays to host in the right place.

– [Craig] Absolutely.

– [Ian] All right, onto our integration of the week, Craig. And this was announced at GROW, in Sydney.

– [Craig] Yeah, so we just thought we’d call out each week now, just an integration that is worth considering. And this is for Xero.

– [Ian] That’s right. Now this is pretty important, because a lot of people have asked for it. And there are other integrations for Xero, but this integration is actually built by Xero, and it’s native. So it will hook into HubSpot. Now, at the time of us recording this, the only thing that happens in this integration is that data from Xero goes into HubSpot. And, towards the end of this year, we’ll actually have more functionality between HubSpot and Xero.

– [Craig] So, when they announced it, because I wasn’t there for when they announced it, what was the actual benefit? Is there a need for people to get contacts out of Xero? What’s driving that?

– [Ian] No, so this is just the first part, Craig. It’s really about having visibility about your contacts. Their billing, getting their customer lifetime value, what’s being invoiced, etc. So, when it was announced, it was a bigger piece. It was kind of as a part of the whole Martech talk. The marketing technology talk? And how the number of connections have actually increased. Every year, it’s like a thousand more. I think there were, like, 7,000 this last year. I think when they started this whole marketing technology thing, there was two or three hundred on that map. There’s 7,000 this year, and that’s in the space of five or six years. So the whole driver was, is that, even in their accounting space, there is a massive number of apps that are connecting to Xero now, but now they’re looking for this connector between Xero and the CRM that’s driving a lot of this behavior. All right, Craig, onto our resource of the week. Now, this is something you discovered. Its about ecommerce as video.

– [Craig] So, this is an article put out by Andreessen Horowitz. They’re an investment company, venture capital company in the US, that invested in a lot of technology companies over the years. So, probably name any technology or big site, Uber, WeWork, anything. They’ve probably invested in them. Anyway, they often look at trends of what’s happening in the market, and what they’re seeing. And this particular article is really interesting, because it’s around the role of video being, basically, the entry into ecommerce. So, we typically think of ecommerce like a Shopify site, right? “Oh, here’s the catalog.” I go through. I find the product I want. Then I click “add to basket”, etc. What they’re looking at is all these examples, predominantly from China, I have to say, of… It’s all in-app. So, you’re in an app and you’re seeing videos that demonstrate something. They’re often viral videos, funny things, demonstrating a product, and the “buy” button is right there in the app. So, it’s no longer, “I go to a site to buy it.” It’s like, “I’m watching videos, I just buy in-app.” And then it’s a beautiful experience, all within the app. So, we’re actually going to dig into this in a future episode, in some detail. However, I just really want to highlight… You should read this article and look at some of the example videos of how commerce is going on in China, it’s amazing.

– [Ian] That’s right. And I think if you are in marketing and sales, you’ve got to know what’s going on. And I was amazed. And we know this happens. I mean, already we can do things like… You could be on Facebook, browsing things, and you can pretty much buy straight off Facebook without ever leaving the platform. It’s about changing the way we are interacting. And I know for a fact… I watch what people do, and how they browse stuff. What they were saying here, it’s like, you don’t even have to go to the store. Craig, you and me could be making a video right now, about a particular product, and then the “buy” button comes up to, “Hey, you want to buy it?”

– [Cragi] Oh that mug that we have, the amber mug!

– [Ian] Oh, the amber mug, yeah. We could be using our amber mug right now, and then a buy button would come up, and you’d be able to buy your amber mug straight off that video that we’re posting about the review.

– [Craig] It’s the fear of the way it’s going. I mean, we’re seeing hints of this with Instagram and their ecommerce connectivity that they’re building into Instagram. But, when you see this post, and you see some of the examples, it’s just… It’s already here in a massive way in China. It’s just that we’re not seeing it more, certainly not in Australia.

– [Ian] That’s right. All right, our quote of the week, Craig?

– [Craig] Who’s this unknown person that you’re quoting?

– [Ian] He’s very unknown, you’re not going to know him. His name’s Dharmesh Shah. If you don’t know him, please go and find out who he is. A lovely, lovely gentleman. Anyway, he has this quote. It says, “Many companies have forgotten “they sell to actual people. “Humans care about their entire experience, “not just marketing or sales or service. “To really win in the modern age, “you must solve for humans.”

– [Craig] Dharmesh has hit the nail on the head again. Yet again, we should say. Didn’t he have that quote that’s painted up on the wall?

– [Ian] Yeah.

– [Craig] At HubSpot when we were visiting Boston? What was that quote? I can’t remember…

– [Ian] I think it’s always… It’s something that, if you make your customers look good, then you look good in the process.

– [Craig] Yes, that’s right, it is.

– [Ian] I was searching my pockets, Craig, to see whether I had it. Because I have a picture on my phone.

– [Craig] Oh really, yeah. Oh, I thought you just kept Dharmesh quotes in your pocket, just for these kinds of situations.

– [Craig] Oh Dharmesh, love you.

– [Ian] All right, now we do have some crazy collection of awesome calculators, Craig.

– [Craig] Oh, omnicalculator.com… I haven’t found a use for this yet, but it’s so awesome I’ve actually shared it with my team and everyone I know, and I’m putting it in the show now. You go to this link, and it’s got calculators for anything and everything. There’s, like, hundreds of them. So, next time you’re thinking, “Oh, I wish I had a calculator,” to calculate something to do with health or finances, or anything, life..

– [Ian] Just go to omnicalculator.com

– [Craig] That’s it.

– [Ian] All right. And there’s another one, in Rand Fishkins’ thread, on Google’s response to Congress, when they asked whether less than 50% of clicks on Google go to non-Google properties.

– [Craig] Yes, and disingenuous responses, avoiding… But, look, frankly, the answer is yes, less than 50% of clicks go to non-Google properties, ie, more than 50% of clicks go to Google properties. So, you’re on Google, searching, they go to Google properties more often than not, the clicks. So, yeah, very interesting behavior. However, compare that to what we were just talking about, INAB commerce going like that. So, you can go onto Google, and maybe there’s something you’re searching for and want to buy. You could could click… Well, it might go to Google, or it might not. Might go off to your site, if you’re lucky. The in-app experience, when you look at that article we were chatting about before, with video, you are staying in that app. So, look, that’s the way Google’s going. All the platforms are. So you can’t… I don’t think there’s a case, to be saying, “Oh, that’s not fair!” That’s what’s happening.

– [Ian] That’s exactly right. And it’s how we understand all of this. And how this affects what we do, is what you need to really understand. Now, listeners, we’d love you to leave us some feedback, as it helps us reach more and more people. And you can leave your feedback on Apple podcast, on Spotify.

– [Craig] Spotify, you can. Even YouTube, where you can visit the ones and ones of visitors to our episodes on YouTube. That has just not worked at all, has it?

– [Ian] No, but again, we’re testing and we’re there.

– [Craig] We’re testing and measuring it. However, Instagram, that’s where we might get a lot of impact. So, yeah, you can leave us a comment on Instagram as well.

– [Ian] And thank you so much for listening to us. And as we head towards INBOUND 2019, we hope you have a great week. See you, Craig.

– [Craig] Catch you later, Ian.

Episode 168: Attribution and prospecting

Welcome to Episode 168 of HubShots!

HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

This episode we chat about things we are thankful for. In marketing, business and life.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/168-attribution-and-prospecting/

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD3Uo4X-IxPJLE8ygPDQhNQ

Subscribe to our Spotify channel here: https://open.spotify.com/show/7oee8w41riN5aRNrLKT2ar

Join the Facebook group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/hubshots/

Follow us on Twitter here: https://twitter.com/hubshots

Follow us on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/hubshotspodcast/

Follow us on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hubshots/

Recorded: Thursday 01 August 2019 | Published: Friday 16 August 2019

Shot 1: Inbound Thought of the Week

Thinking through attribution

Simple examples:

  • Did Google Ads drive any leads


  • Did Google Ads help to drive leads when combined with other sources
  • Looking through the timeline of a contact record to see the touches


  • Which channels require the least sales touches to close a big client
  • What impact is sales having on the overall closure rate of clients
  • How many contacts do we need to be working with at a company to get the best closure rates (this is a big focus in ABM)

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Attribution reports (again)

At its simplest the Sources report gives you a good insight into which channels are driving traffic and leads:

Sources Analytics   HubSpot

This is based on first touch attribution.

However the Attribution reports (in Enterprise), includes the option to give attribution to a range of touches (including first and last, all touches, decay, etc):

Attribution   HubSpot 4

This is really important for visitors who revisit via different channels

Key metrics to attribution reports in HubSpot:

Contacts assisted

The number of contacts that viewed your website through a particular touchpoint before converting. For the All Interactions, First and Last, or Simple Decay attribution methods, contacts can be assisted by multiple touchpoints. For the other models, contacts are assisted by a single touchpoint. This number includes conversions that occur on the attributed page itself.

% of contacts

The percentage of the total number of contacts assisted by the attribution object in your report. For the All Interactions, First and Last, or Simple Decay attribution methods, contacts can be assisted by multiple touchpoints. As a result, adding together the values in the % of Contacts column may exceed 100%.

Score / 100

The score is calculated out of 100 points that are evenly distributed across all the contacts assisted by the objects in your report. If a contact’s influenced by more than one object, their score gets divided among these objects. With the simple decay attribution model, more recent objects get a higher percentage of this score.

You should note: No matter what metric you choose for your chart, you’ll still see data for all three of these metrics in your report.

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Prospects tool (again)

A useful way to see which companies are visiting your website

Prospects 1

Can be very important for following up with people who you’ve promoted to, but haven’t yet converted in your database.

Shot 4: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

HubSpot support is impressive/awesome!

This week we interacted with Jocelyn!

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

Better forms

This form option is a welcome addition:

better form field

It appears on this page:


good form

I love those options.

And nice progressive form field usage as well – here’s what it looks like after submitting:

progressive form

(In case you are wondering this is a Pardot form, it’s not HubSpot, but as you know HubSpot forms have this same functionality so here’s a reminder to be making use of it.)

Thank you Merkle.

See also: https://www.craigbailey.net/better-forms/

Shot 6: Insight of the Week


Via: https://coywolf.news/content/ai-content-identification/

Shot 7: Resource of the Week

How Google keeps Search relevant and useful


When you come to Google Search, their goal is to connect you with useful information as quickly as possible. That information can take many forms, and over the years the search results page has evolved to include not only a list of blue links to pages across the web but also useful features to help you find what you’re looking for even faster!

Shot 8: Quote of the Week

One of the speakers at INBOUND!

“A trust leap is when we take a risk to do something new or to do it differently from the way that we’ve done something before.”

Shot 9: Bonus Links of the Week

Check out HubSpot’s new State of Customer Service in 2019 research report here.

Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

HubShots Episode 168: Attribution and prospecting

Episode 167: HubSpot and Privacy

Welcome to Episode 167 of HubShots!

HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

This episode we chat about HubSpot tracking and privacy, and (likely) your lack of it. Plus, an update on adding CTAs in drag and drop emails. Also, Google’s take on how they keep search relevant.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/167-hubspot-and-privacy/

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD3Uo4X-IxPJLE8ygPDQhNQ

Subscribe to our Spotify channel here: https://open.spotify.com/show/7oee8w41riN5aRNrLKT2ar

Join the Facebook group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/hubshots/

Follow us on Twitter here: https://twitter.com/hubshots

Follow us on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/hubshotspodcast/

Follow us on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hubshots/

Recorded: Thursday 25 July 2019 | Published: Wednesday August 7 2019

Shot 1: Inbound Thought of the Week

How we started the podcast…

It all started back in 2016… at a HubSpot User Group.

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Revisited: Adding CTAs in Drag and Drop email editor

An update to our discussion in the last episode about using CTAs in the drag and drop editor:


It’s super easy to add CTAs into emails now:

Edit Email   New email

Was this always here and we just missed it?

Plus, make sure you investigate the modules option – you can use any custom modules from traditional email templates – just drop them on to Drag and Drop emails no problems.

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Making sure you have set up your track and log correctly when using the sales tools.

Recently we have been finding new users not excluding their internal emails.  This is not hard to do and will save a lot of time in contact cleanup!

Inbox  570    ian jacob searchandbefound com au   Search   Be Found Mail


Shot 4: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

HubSpot tracking and privacy

HubSpot is removing location tracking in their email tracking activity:


This is likely a response to the outcry about Superhuman’s email tracking:


And then Superhuman’s response:


A reminder that you should assume that you don’t have any privacy.


HubSpot billing gotcha


“For our Full-Service Marketing Hub Products, once increased, your Subscription Fee will not decrease, even if there is a subsequent reduction in the number of Contacts or emails sent.”

Here’s an example of getting caught by this (sneaky) clause:

Products   Services   Account   Billing

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

LinkedIn has made their advertising campaigns a lot more intuitive with:

  • Awareness
  • Consideration
  • Conversion

campaign objectives:



One useful difference:

For awareness campaigns, previously you’d like choose Website objective, but use CPM bidding.

Now you choose an Awareness objective and it only has Impressions as an option.

Shot 6: Insight of the Week

The World is Complex


Shot 7: Quote of the Week

Another gem from Seth in This is Marketing (p143)

Once you adopt a posture of service, of engaging with the culture to make change, the shift happens.

Now, instead of asking, “How can I get more people to listen to me, how can I get the word out, how can I find more followers, how can I convert more leads to sales, how can I find more clients…” you can ask, “What change do I seek to make?”

Once you know what you stand for, the rest gets a lot easier.

Shot 8: Bonus Links of the Week

A-ha world tour dates:


Yes, this is a throwback to episode 145:

Bye bye Nacho Analytics


Craig’s thoughts:

Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

HubShots Episode 167: HubSpot and Privacy

Episode 166: HubSpot vs MailChimp, plus social robots

Welcome to Episode 166 of HubShots!

HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

We hope you enjoy the podcast as much as HubSpot’s CEO, Brian Halligan does.

This episode we chat about HubSpot’s decision to include basic email sends in HubSpot free, plus Social Robots.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/166-hubspot-vs-mailchimp-plus-social-robots/

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD3Uo4X-IxPJLE8ygPDQhNQ

Subscribe to our Spotify channel here: https://open.spotify.com/show/7oee8w41riN5aRNrLKT2ar

Join the Facebook group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/hubshots/

Follow us on Twitter here: https://twitter.com/hubshots

Follow us on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/hubshotspodcast/

Follow us on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hubshots/

Recorded: Thursday 18 July 2019 | Published: Friday 26 July 2019

Shot 1: Inbound Thought of the Week

Thinking about ‘temporal subscriptions’ thanks to the This Old Marketing podcast (which returned this week – we chat about the podcast further in shot 7).

Temporal subscription behaviour is becoming more common – it’s the tendency to just subscribe temporarily eg subscribe to Netflix for just a series (eg Stranger Things) and then cancel. It’s the drop in and out mentality.

Worth considering in your industries – even if you are a B2B business – because all purchase behaviour eventually follows personal (consumer) behavior. Start planning for it now.

More on this:


See also:


Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

HubSpot has enabled sending up to 2000 emails in the free accounts



Here’s what you’ll see the first time you go into Emails in a free Marketing Hub account:

Marketing Email   HubSpot

I wonder how concerned is about this getting abused by spammers – I’m guessing plenty:


Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week


Apparently the What’s New report is considered a dashboard report…

One we like is the Average Time to Respond Over Time

You can measure how quickly team members are responding to tickets over time. This report displays the average time it takes users to send an email reply to a ticket once it has been created, and compares this to the previous time period.

Screen Shot 2019 07 05 at 9.23.44 PM

Shot 4: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

Issues with turning a form in a template into a smart form.

You’re in a template, that has a section with form eg a Contact Us area. You want to make the form into a smart form (eg to switch out the form based on a list).

In the template it doesn’t give you the option to make it smart:

Design Manager   HubSpot and Hubspot Advanced Implementation Certification 1

However, according to the KB article it should:


On to HubSpot Support, and Steve on chat – 15 mins later he’s given me a workaround:

  • Add a second form module, but make sure you select a default Form

It shows the option to make the form smart

Design Manager   HubSpot and Hubspot Advanced Implementation Certification

Use this second module, and delete the first module

Probably a bug – but that’s the workaround for now.

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

Track how many visits you are getting from Google My Business


Shot 6: Insight of the Week


Want to highlight 2 things from this report:

  1. Social Robots

WEF Top 10 Emerging Technologies 2019 Report pdf

Like most robots, social robots use artificial intelligence (AI) to decide how to act on information received through cameras and other sensors.

Worldwide sales of consumer robots reached an estimated $5.6 billion in 2018 and the market is expected to grow to $19 billion by the end of 2025, with more than 65 million robots sold a year.

There is a wave of robots like BUDDY (Blue Frog Robotics), a big-eyed mobile device that plays

games in addition to acting as a personal assistant and providing home automation and security.

2. Collaborative Telepresence

WEF Top 10 Emerging Technologies 2019 Report pdf 1

Although collaborative telepresence is still very much emerging, all the pieces are in place for it to become transformative within three to five years.

As the parts are come together, expect to see changes in daily life and work that are as dramatic as those sparked by the widespread adoption of smartphones.

Takeaway: Be aware as these could be other channels to reach your audience as they become more comfortable with AI driven robots and interacting with others in different mediums.

Shot 7: Podcast of the Week

Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose are back with their This Old Marketing Podcast


Shot 8: Resource of the Week

Beautiful images

https://unsplash.com/ – The internet’s source of freely useable images.   Not like stock photos!

Shot 9: Quote of the Week

“The secret of getting ahead is getting started.” -Mark Twain

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week

Interesting form layout choice of the week:

Hubspot Advanced Implementation Certification

Why have email as a small third field and the employee dropdown as so large?




Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

HubShots Episode 166: HubSpot vs MailChimp, plus social robots

Episode 166 Transcript

– [Ian] Welcome to HubShots Episode 166. We talk about HubSpot versus MailChimp, plus social robots. Do listen to Asia-Pacific’s number one HubSpot-focus podcast where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks, features, and strategies for growing your marketing and sales results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. How are you, Craig?

– [Craig] Well! Looking forward to hearing about social robots. And I know that part is, I’ve got some myself resource you’ve pulled out for later in the show.

– [Ian] that’s right. It’s from emerging technologies report in 2019 but we will talk about that shortly. All right, Craig. Onto our Inbound Thought of The Week.

– [Craig] I was listening to the This Old Marketing podcast with Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose which is back, just started back this week. Welcome back, guys. After 18 months hiatus. Joe, of course from a CMI Content Marketing Institute. But one of the things that really piqued my interest in the show, we’re all talking about temporal subscriptions. Have you heard this term before?

– No, I haven’t.

– Temporal subscription? It’s basically this behavior whereby people subscribe, they just kinda opt in or opt out at a whim. So, a good example Netflix.

– Okay.

– [Craig] All right, I’m gonna subscribe to Netflix ’cause I wanna watch Stranger Things or I’m gonna subscribe to HBO ’cause I wanna watch the last season of Game of Thrones and then I’m out, so there’s no loyalty, there’s no recurring subscription behavior, and that’s becoming a bit more common. People have their subscriptions. I don’t know about you but we just have subscriptions. They go on, we never cancel them, right? However, it’s becoming much more than norm where people are temporal. And so I thought this was really interesting behavior, trend, probably starting in the States. We’re probably not seeing it here for another couple of years in Australia but I was thinking about that in all businesses, not only our own agency which of course we don’t lock people into contracts. If they’re a retainer, they can stop at any time, move up and down, so that’s definitely something that we’ve been doing for a while and I know a lot of other agencies do. However, when I think of our clients and even HubSpot, if you think, they often try and lock people in for years at a time, annual renewals and things like that. A couple years from now, it’s just not gonna be the way. Everything will be months to months or cancel anytime with no downside by the way. I actually asked Netflix about this. I said, “Can I cancel? “Will I lose all my lists and watch them?” They go, no, no. Just cancel but when you re-subscribe, all your data will still be there. You’ll pick up where you left off.

– Really?

– Yeah. I was like, wow that’s a really good experience. And, well, I’ve got no intention to cancel in Netflix anytime soon but if I did, that’s kinda one of the fears you have, right? They kinda lock you in with that kind of–

– [Ian] It’s like you’ve been canceled and restarting, isn’t it?

– [Craig] Yeah, but that kind of they lock you in so that you don’t wanna lose that data, and then you’re not watching. Anyway, I think the tide has turned and this is what’s gonna happen for industries and/or big B-to-B industries and things like that, it’ll be there because it starts with personal behavior, i.e. consumer behavior and that pushes through to B-to-B as well so just because you’re in B-to-B, don’t think that it won’t affect you in the future.

– You’re immune.

– Yeah, exactly.

– [Ian] All right. Onto our HubSpot Marketing Feature Week, Craig. And this is where we’re talking about HubSpot enabling email sending to their marketing free accounts and how does that go with MailChimp.

– [Craig] Right, so we’re not actually gonna talk about the news that they’ve released this in their free accounts ’cause they’ve been doing a great job of blasting that everywhere.

– [Ian] Yes, they certainly are.

– [Craig] Yes, you cannot avoid the news, right? So if you’re listening to this podcast, we’re not assuming this is news to you. You are well aware of this. But what I thought was fascinating about it was just that they’ve really taken over the ground that MailChimp has had for the last decade and has just decided to move out of with their free plan. They’ve really locked that down, reduced features, all that kinda thing. And HubSpot, it seems, have just said oh, right, oh well. Will do.

– We’ll walk in there.

– [Craig] We’ll take that over, thanks. And so well, great job. That whole freemium models worked really well for MailChimp and HubSpot just there from the free right up through to the enterprise space, I think they’re really well-positioned for this. The thing that I thought interesting is if you look at the video, and there’s Kyle Jepson doing a talk about how good it is for sales. By the way, have you noticed they’ve pushed it on the CRM side?

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] They’re not pushing it on the marketing side.

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] HubSpot marketing free. Why aren’t they? That’s interesting. They’re pushing their sales angle. Anyway, that says CRM plus email and it works in marketing free so it’s not as specific to a CRM side. But anyway, maybe they don’t wanna be so blatant that they’re going up against MailChimp, I don’t know. But interesting when Kyle Jepson’s doing the video, talking about it, he spends a minute and a half talking about he must have permission.

– That’s exactly right.

– For your email, and you know what? It’s just because this is spammer’s paradise. The number of people that are just gonna spin up these HubSpot free accounts, just import dodgy lists, spam them out, don’t get banned, of course. HubSpot will cut down that.

– Yes, and they’ve actually said that.

– HubSpot will cut down–

– And you know what’s really interesting?

– Yeah.

– Well, like Kyle was saying was that just because you may have exhibited at a conference for example, right, and you sponsored it so you actually get access to the listing. They’ve said, look, you might hear from our sponsors. You cannot even load that in and send emails from HubSpot. No, obviously you could load it in because you might wanna contact them and keep the interaction but you actually can’t email them out of HubSpot.

– [Craig] Well, I don’t know if I necessarily agree with that because the implied consent is that, I mean, you’ve gotta check. This is not legal advice, folks. You’ve gotta check in your particular area.

– That’s right.

– But certainly here in Australia, there’s an implied consent component and if you have opted in, you have, in a conference then theoretically, you should be allowed to do that. Whether that’s a good idea or not, I’m not suggesting it’s a good idea and we’ve discussed this on the show in the past as well because frankly if people are not expecting to hear from you, they’re gonna mark you as spam anyway but does that mean you’re not allowed to do it? I don’t know. And I think HubSpot’s, I think they’re just being overly protective because they know it’s gonna get, they know this is gonna get abused, right?

– Correct. Well, you know very well the more you make someone aware of something not to do them, the likelihood they are probably to be very cautious with doing anything of that nature because they are aware of the consequences.

– [Craig] Well, I hope so because you know my fear. I was thinking, well, I hope our pro and enterprise accounts are on the same IP addresses because these free accounts are gonna get marked as spam so badly by a lot of the email tools out there so I hope that doesn’t impinge on our pro accounts.

– [Ian] Yeah. Anyway, so if you’re using CRM or you’ve got marketing free, go and try out the email marketing part within the system. All right. Onto our HubSpot Sales Feature of The Week, Craig. We’re gonna highlight a blog post that talks about six simple HubSpot reports your dashboard needs. And there are lots of reports on there. There was one that I saw, and this is not specifically sales-related but I think would be good in terms of response but this is actually a report that’s average time to respond over time and this is actually responding to tickets. So it’s not directly sales-related but it’s service-related and obviously, sales could be using tickets as well. But then report displays the average time it takes users to send an email reply to a ticket once it’s been created and compares it to the previous time period. I thought that was an interesting report which I’d actually never seen, and there are five others that you could add. So I wanted to highlight that. All right, onto the HubSpot Question of The Week, Craig.

– [Craig] All right, quite a quirky little one that I banged heads against today.

– [Ian] No, yes.

– [Craig] So this has to do with templates. This is a page template, web page template, and in the template, there’s a Contact Us section and in that Contact Us section, there’s a form. So we’re in the template, not in the page. It’s a page based on the template but in the template, there’s a form. I wanted that form to be a smart form ’cause I wanted to switch out the form based on criteria, based on at least strength. Anyway, I couldn’t do it and there was no option to make it smart. We’ve got a link to the knowledge base, you should be able to do it. Well, I could make rich text fields smart.

– Could.

– Anyway, I couldn’t get this sorted and you tested it in your portal ’cause that’s how it is, isn’t it?

– Couldn’t get it to do that.

– [Craig] Anyway, what we did, straight onto HubSpot Support on the chat. By the way, their chat, this is the same I think we mentioned as the last show. Their chat support is really good.

– [Ian] It is.

– [Craig] Anyways, Steve from HubSpot Support’s on there. Took him about 15 minutes, I have to say, so he wasn’t a quick fix which is good ’cause I always worry I’ve done something stupid. Anyways, but he comes back. Anyway, it looks like it’s a bug but there’s a workaround and so the workaround he gave me is you actually add a second form on there in that template module and that one you have to have selected a form by default in there.

– Correct.

– [Craig] You can make that smart and then you delete the first form. So very weird, very bizarre, but that’s the workaround so if there’s one or two people who are running into this and they hear this on the show, they’ll think this is just amazing timing ’cause yeah, I’d say it’s a bug and hopefully it’ll get fixed but yeah, if you’re wondering about smart forms and templates, there you go.

– [Ian] So Craig, I just wanna say, what is one reason why you would use a smart form in a template?

– [Craig] So let’s say you’ve got a Contact Us section, let’s say it’s in the footer of most pages, so you’ve made this probably a global section, global module, and so the form in there, you might wanna switch it out if you know the person versus an anonymous user.

– Correct.

– [Craig] So if it’s someone that you know and that’s a form, might be welcome back, I just made this or if it’s someone new, it might ask for a whole bunch of details, you could do that with the progressive form fills as well. The other thing you can do is show entirely different forms and so here’s an example. You might show a different form based on their–

– Life cycle stage.

– Life cycle stage but I was gonna say mobile versus desktop, might have a cut-down form, something like that. You might have different layouts, those kinds of things.

– [Ian] Yeah, or they come from a social channel for example. That could be another instance where we would have that.

– [Craig] That’s a good one. Now, I’ve got a little hack that I’m, well, not a hack.

– Well, we’re testing it out.

– A little use case. I’m getting a lot of spam from a certain country and so what I’m doing with my smart forms is if the traffic comes from a certain country, I actually switch out a form.

– [Ian] You give it a new better form, don’t you?

– [Craig] I give them a form that doesn’t have an email address. They can still submit it but because of most things in HubSpot, it doesn’t create a contact, doesn’t waste my time creating a contact. So basically, the people from this country see a form, they think they’re submitting it, does nothing, I don’t get a notification–

– They get a thank-you page?

– They get a thank-you page.

– And they’re working around.

– It doesn’t! Doesn’t clog up HubSpot with contacts that I have to go in and delete.

– [Ian] You just saved yourself a contact there, Craig.

– [Craig] Oh, yep.

– [Ian] Anyway, that’s just one of the use cases we’re testing.

– [Craig] There’s one case, yeah, it’s great.

– [Ian] All right, Craig. Now onto our Marketing Tip of The Week and how to track visits you gain from Google My Business. Now, we talk about Google My Business because it keeps getting better and better by the month and this has to do with adding tracking URLs so you can actually tell the traffic, better you can filter out your traffic from Google My Business and you would do this across, if you’re running campaigns in HubSpot, you’d use the URL.

– [Craig] You could use that yeah. But basically, it’s creating the parameters, putting them on the URL that you then use in Google My Business.

– Okay.

– So yeah, it’s just talking about tracking. I think it’s really interesting. And also, you can do for different tracking parts in the Google My Business profile so if it’s from an event.

– Correct!

– [Craig] Versus if it’s just a normal listing URL.

– That’s correct.

– Really useful.

– [Ian] All right, Craig. Onto our Insight of The Week.

– [Craig] All right, now tell me, what’s all this social robots?

– [Ian] So this is a report I came across and this is from the World Economic Forum, right? So they’ve actually created this report and it’s The Top 10 Emerging Technologies of 2019. They call it an insight report to go with our Insights of The Week, Craig. The foreword is from the editor-in-chief and she’s from the group of Springer Nature and so it’s a research company and then there’s also the chief innovation officer of IBM, and so they sought to create this to see what technologies are poised to rattle the status quo in 2019. Look, I’ll read what the top 10 that they have come up with. Number one, bioplastics for a circular economy. Number two is social robots. Let’s certainly talk about that in a second. Number three, tiny lenses for miniature devices. Number four, disordered proteins as drug targets. Number five, smart fertilizers can reduce environmental contamination. Number six is collaborative telepresence which I’m gonna talk about as well. Next one is advanced food tracking and packaging. Again, tracking and using that data. Number eight, safe nuclear reactors. I’m not gonna go there. Number nine, DNA storage. And number 10, utility scales, storage of renewable energy. So I mean, a lot of this is well, we’re very much aware of, right?

– [Craig] Well, I wouldn’t know. I wouldn’t say I was very much aware of this and before you go on, I just wanted to say, when you first put this in the show night, so I was like, what on earth has this got to do with marketing? Here’s what I found fascinating because it shows what a bubble I live in because I think oh, emerging technologies, oh, that’ll be something with Uber and Airbnb, right? Or what’s happening in a marketing sect, like that’s my role!

– That’s exactly right because that’s where we live in.

– [Craig] And I saw things like, what’s smart fertilizers? What’s going on here? And tiny little lenses, and all these, I was like, wow, this is actually really good for these are the things they’re actually making impact on the world.

– Correct.

– [Craig] Not some new Bitcoin or currency. Yeah, these are things that are actually having major impacts on the globe and wellbeing of billions of people potentially.

– [Ian] That’s right. So I wanna highlight social robots, right? And they say it’s your droid friends and assistants penetrating deeper into our lives, and so they’re saying like most robots, social robots use artificial intelligence. Now, we spoke about artificial intelligence in a few episodes previously to decide how to act on information he receives through cameras and other senses. Now, worldwide sales of consumer robots reached an estimated 5.6 billion in 2018 and the market is expected to grow to 19 billion by the end of 2025 with more than 65 million robots sold a year. There is a wave of robots, one of them named Buddy by Blue Frog Robotics, a big-eyed mobile device that plays games in addition to acting as a personal assistant and providing home automation and security. So I wanted to highlight this ’cause we’re kind of halfway there here. So there are already robots doing something. I’m sure a lot of our listeners probably have things like Amazon Alexa, they’re using Siri everyday, or if they’re not, the kids are using Siri everyday and we’re well on the way here so this is taking that to the next step in how they can assist us.

– [Craig] So where’s the crossover from, say, assistance like Alexa versus robots? What’s the difference? And in particular, when it said 65 million robots sold a year, I’m like what is a robot? What’s a consumer robot? I imagine that’s not Alexa and those things ’cause there’s hundreds of millions of those.

– [Ian] Yeah, exactly. So something that moves around, right? One of the things they were talking about is the robots that they’re utilizing in hotels for example that will actually deliver room service.

– [Craig] Oh, right.

– [Ian] So it basically can take a meal to a room, it can see someone open the door, you can interact with them, give them the meal, it can take something back. So it was able to answer a question.

– [Craig] Right, and that’s the social robot?

– Correct.

– Part of the social in the social robot as opposed to just a robot in a factory or I don’t know–

– Exactly.

– [Craig] A warehouse kinda thing.

– [Ian] Yes. And so that’s how they’re saying that this one called Buddy, he’s a big-eyed mobile device that plays games. So he’s one that people are interacting with and providing home automation and security, so. I think what I wanna highlight from that is that you just look at the proliferation of artificial intelligence in different kinds of devices like these social robots that people are gonna interact with and they’re gonna think it’s okay to do that. We might sit here now and laugh at it.

– [Craig] Oh, I wouldn’t. I could totally see that.

– [Ian] Yeah, and you see, as people get comfortable with talking, like I look at my kids and I go, they talk to Siri like it’s a real person.

– Really?

– Yes!

– [Craig] Oh, wow!

– [Ian] And I said, you do realize that you’re talking to a computer but to them, their awareness is not the same.

– [Craig] Right!

– [Ian] So they actually think that Siri is somebody real. They interact with Siri like it was a real person.

– [Craig] Really? And they’re actually getting anything meaningful out of Siri?

– [Ian] Most the time they do.

– Oh, all right.

– They were asking pretty simple questions.

– Okay.

– [Ian] But they are getting and so obviously, if you ask something that Siri just wanna answer, it comes back with a–

– Have fun.

– A response from Siri.

– [Craig] And an exercise in frustration. I can never get anything out of Siri but that’s just–

– [Ian] But this is an interesting thing. It makes me realize that kids are getting so used to that interaction, that really, when we call, look at these social robots come on, it’ll be very natural for them to talk to those devices like they talk to real people, so that’s one. The second one is collaborative telepresence and this is soon participants in virtual gatherings will feel like they are physically together and so they actually say even the collaborative telepresence is still emerging, all the pieces are in place to become transformative within three to five years. And just think about it. That’s not that far away, okay? We’ve had 10 years of iPhone and you see, think about how much that has changed our lives and as the parts come together, expect to see changes in daily life and work that as dramatic as those sparked by the adoption of smartphones. Think about the takeaway here is be aware of these as channels that you can reach your potential audience or interact with them as they become more comfortable with AI-driven robots and interacting on different mediums.

– [Craig] So how would you reach your audience via a social robot?

– [Ian] I don’t know. I’m still working it out, Craig.

– [Craig] I don’t know, it just gives you your dinner and then tells you a promotion, a free promotion.

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] And look, it’s gonna happen like that, and marketers ruin everything as they say, but you can imagine the robot turning, it’s just got you sponsored by.

– [Ian] That’s exactly right.

– [Craig] So you just peel and said that here.

– [Ian] And that’s the thing, I think. You look at all of these things, you just realize it just takes someone to think about it, come up with the idea, and before you know it, everyone’s copying it or has magnificently–

– [Craig] Well, that’s true, but I’m just picking up on the end of that around social robots. For instance, that in addition acting as a personal assistant, providing home automation and security. It just makes me wanna go and watch Robocop again too. Good movies, aren’t they?

– [Ian] So there we have it.

– All right, thanks for that.

– I thought something about broaden insight for them.

– [Craig] Yeah, and that was very good.

– [Ian] All right, we have our Podcast of The Week, Craig.

– [Craig] As we mentioned at the top of show, This Old Marketing is back with Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose and just wonderful listening. Gee, I love that podcast.

– [Ian] So we encourage you to go and have a listen to that. Now we have our Resource of The Week if you would love beautiful images.

– [Craig] So you’ve come across Unsplash?

– [Ian] Yes, I have and I realized you’ve been using it for a long time.

– [Craig] Yeah, I didn’t know. I thought everyone used this, Unsplash.

– [Ian] No, I actually used Adobe Stock for a long time and I still do, but I definitely think that Unsplash will definitely, beyond my top list to be using. And you know what I loved about it? I’ve seen some great images from Unsplash and it’s from photographers globally. It doesn’t look like stock photography.

– No, it doesn’t.

– That’s what I love about it.

– [Craig] Although after a while of using it, you realize some of those images, you see them everywhere.

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] So especially the hipster ones. There’s this one I see everywhere, it’s with this hipster guy at a cafe and all the tech companies use it. You gotta be careful. So use it in Unsplash but you gotta switch them out a couple months later ’cause everyone’s used them by then.

– [Ian] Yeah. So there you go, Unsplash.com. All right, Craig, Quote of The Week.

– [Craig] Let’s run my short one we’ve got in it.

– [Ian] The secret of getting ahead is getting started by Mark Twain. Now, Craig, you’ve got a couple of bonus links of the week.

– [Craig] Yes, a few links in there so we didn’t get time to go through them in the show but I also not only a bonus link but a bonus–

– Screenshot.

– A screenshot of the week which is I think we should have this section called Interesting Form Layout Choices of The Week.

– [Ian] Yes, this is actually a HubSpot from a HubSpot landing page and it’s a really unusual form layout and I’m just not sure.

– [Ian] We’re a bit baffled, aren’t we?

– [Craig] We are baffled, so folks, you can go and have a look at that. Let us know what you think.

– [Ian] We shared it on Instagram. Maybe somebody that was staring at HubSpot got that joke.

– [Craig] He connects we intended that.

– [Ian] We intended that.

– [Craig] I don’t think anything goes out from HubSpot that hasn’t been thought through so I’m assuming there’s thinking behind this. Deliberate choices were made here.

– [Ian] Even if they were unintentional.

– [Craig] Oh, deliberate but unintentional one.

– [Ian] Anyway, listeners, we would love you to leave us some feedback on Apple Podcast, Spotify.

– [Craig] We’re on Spotify now and our YouTube channel has… Look, every episode on our YouTube channel gets ones of views so.

– [Ian] With everything, we’re testing and trialing things out, we are looking at doing more videos so we’d love to hear your feedback. Let us know–

– [Craig] You know what I’m surprised about? Well, people said put it on YouTube, right? And I was like, oh, no one’s gonna listen on YouTube. Well, they do for some big podcasts. They don’t for us. But when we do stuff on Instagram, often it gets a lot more response. I’m like, no one’s gonna respond to that and they do so it just shows test and measure, right?

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] Some channels work better than others.

– [Ian] That’s right, and some channels take a little bit of time to grow so I think with everything, look at how you’re amplifying your content and then focus on what’s working. Well Craig, until next time.

– [Craig] Catch you later, Ian.

– [Ian] Thank you for listening to this episode of HubShots. For show notes, resources, HubSpot News include practical strategies you can implement, visit us at HubShots.com.

Episode 165: Drag and Drop email editor gotcha and workaround, plus Google Analytics Intelligence

Welcome to Episode 165 of HubShots!

Welcome to HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

We hope you enjoy the podcast as much as HubSpot’s CEO, Brian Halligan does.

This episode we revisit the new drag and drop email editor and discover that it doesn’t support CTAs, but there is a workaround. Plus Google’s Analytics Intelligence. And a really simple way to qualify leads to determine if they are sales ready.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/165-drag-and-drop-email-editor-gotcha-and-workaround-plus-google-analytics-intelligence/

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD3Uo4X-IxPJLE8ygPDQhNQ

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Recorded: Tuesday 09 July 2019 | Published: Friday 19 July 2019

Shot 1: Inbound Thought of the Week

Always be helping.


Here is something we encourage everyone to do > Inbound Sales Training

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

A bit more on the new HubSpot email drag and drop editor (following our initial thoughts back in episode 161)

Some good things:

  • Very simple to use and move sections around
  • Simple styling
  • Adding new sections is easy (much nicer than when using the traditional editor eg using repeaters)

Some puzzling things:

  • Can’t natively add CTAs (UPDATE: 24 July 2019 – This is now available as an option in the Button control)
  • Can’t add any html scripts for that matter eg can’t add CTA embed code to try to get around the missing CTA functionality
  • Can’t globally control some basic styling eg line height of paragraphs (although you can do this in each section you add), better styling of links etc

Some solutions:

UPDATE 24 July 2019: This is no longer required – the CTA option is now available in the Button control – however, we’ve left it here as a quick overview of how to create custom modules:

  • To get around the CTA issue, you can create a global email Custom module that will show a CTA (see the code below) and then drag that onto the email. Big thank you to Mun Shuen from Hubspot Support who got this working for me.
  • Here’s the code to add:
    {% cta guid=”{{ module.cta_field }}” %}


  1. Create a local custom module that is used in emails:
    Design Manager   HubSpot 1
  2. Add a CTA field:
    Design Manager   HubSpot
  3. Add the code in the main module code window:
    Design Manager   HubSpot 2
  4. Drag the custom module into your email editor:
    hubspot custom module
  5. Select the CTA to use

Note: the CTA might not render properly in the email editor. However it should render fine when the email is read in the email client.

More updates from June:


Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Be Direct – don’t disguise your intentions

How to determine if leads are sales ready.

Ask on forms: Are you ready to speak to us?


  • Would you like us to call you?
  • Would you like to speak to sales?

Shot 4: Marketing Gotcha of the Week

See above: You can’t put CTA natively into emails using the drag and drop editor.

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

Google Analytics Intelligence

Insights in Google Analytics – just ask questions at the top of the page:

Analytics 1

Use the Analytics Intelligence list on the right hand column to see other suggested insights:

Analytics 2

Shot 6: Insight of the Week

Marketing should do one thing: Build more trust.

That’s a paraphrase of Seth Godin’s approach to marketing.

Ask yourself: Does this ad, article, email, campaign, strategy help people and build more trust in us?

Shot 7: Retirement of the Week

Some social reports are leaving us – two Twitter reports (Timelines and Sent Messages)

Shot 8: Resource of the Week

Understanding all the different Google sections in the search results:


  • Answer boxes
  • How to boxes
  • Knowledge boxes and panels
  • People also ask (PAA)
  • Refine by
  • etc

Shot 9: Quote of the Week

“If you deliberately plan on being less than you are capable of being, then I warn you that you’ll be unhappy the rest of your life.”

Abraham Maslow

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week

Please leave us a simple star rating as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

HubShots Episode 165: Drag and Drop email editor gotcha and workaround, plus Google Analytics Intelligence

Episode 165 Transcript

– [Ian] Welcome to HubShots episode 165. In this episode, we revisit the new drag-and-drop email editor and discover that it doesn’t support CTAs, but there is a workaround. Plus, Google Analytics Intelligence. And a really simple way to qualify leads to determine if they are sales-ready. You’re listening to Asia-Pacific’s number one HubSpot-focused podcast where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks, and features, and strategies for growing your marketing sales results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found, and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. How are you, Craig?

– [Craig] Really good, and #HelpBetter.

– [Ian] That’s right! And let’s talk about our Inbound Thought of the Week, Craig. I was thinking about this, really what is Inbound all about? It’s always be helping. And it highlighted to me because I was updating some of my training, I was doing I think the inbound sales training and you know what? It really did highlight it’s all about helping people get to where they want to get to without just shoving things in their face or what they don’t need at the time, so it’s really about timing, context, content, and all these other things but I think it’s great.

– [Craig] I think it’s a really good reminder and we’ll pick up on that ever so slightly in shot six and inside of the week as well.

– [Ian] So I wanna encourage you. I will put a link to the HubSpot Academy to go and have a look at what trainer it is. You know what? I’m always surprised how much it’s growing. I saw some really good courses today.

– [Craig] You were pointing out the Daniel Pink one and then there’s an Instagram mentor and strategy guide, and yeah, Mari Smith was in there. Like, it’s really good.

– [Ian] That’s right, so they’re really utilizing even people outside of HubSpot that are experts in their field to really help people that are using HubSpot, even not using HubSpot but using it as a hub for training, so I want to highlight that Inbound Sales training and I would encourage people even in marketing to do this training because I think it really gives you a good understanding of how you can tie in with sales better. All right, Craig, onto our HubSpot marketing feature of the week. We’re gonna talk about email marketing and the new email editor.

– [Craig] Yeah so I’m picking up on this, we chatted about this in episode 161, you remember when we first were playing with it, and at the time I hadn’t really had a good chance to, I guess, play with the enigma as they say. I have had that chance now, and you know what, I quite like it. And I just started with the simplest drag-and-drop template, and that’s actually how I’m writing our next newsletter and I just really like just dropping on text bits and dividers and that’s it. I’m trying to make our emails as simple as possible. And there is basically a trend or push to this from most people anyway, so those days of the busy templates with all kinds of curved corners and all this kind of stuff in email templates is pretty much going away. I know there are some companies that have branding standards they still have to do that kind of stuff, but more and more it’s really about paring it right back, simplifying it, especially on mobile for a better mobile experience. Nice and clean. So the drag-and-drop editor, I think it’s time to kind of it just embrace that, and the utility of being able to drop modules or things onto their email and move them around easily is really good. However, you do, I guess, sacrifice a few things and we’re gonna basically chat about our findings. Before I launch into that, how are you finding it?

– [Ian] Well I started using it on a marketing starter product, and so it was great. I could get stuff done really quickly. It was easy to teach people what to do. It just worked well out of the box and I loved the templates that are there to get started as well. Quite a selection. Here’s a welcome email, here’s a re-engagement email, here’s if you wanna promote something, so I think they’ve got that sorted really well. And like I was discovering, like I was talking to you, is that, okay, I was using that and I didn’t really transition to using that on Marketing Professional or Enterprise where we use things like calls-to-actions, And I thought to myself, okay that’s cool. And then I went back and I thought, Oh, I want to add a CTA in my email. How do I do that? Oh, I can’t do that. Did you know about this, Craig?

– [Craig] I didn’t know about it until you highlighted it to me today, and then it drove me nuts. I couldn’t believe it that you couldn’t insert a CTA into the email in Marketing Pro, in the drag-and-drop, I just couldn’t believe it. We’ll come back to that because we do have a solution for that. What are some of the other experiences you’ve had with it, in terms of using it?

– [Ian] Well I think the design is a lot nicer. It’s a lot simpler, it’s cleaner. I’ve had a lot of customers actually tell me, “Oh, that actually looks really nice, and we created that quickly.”

– [Craig] It kind of protects you from yourself if you wanna try doing complex things. I’ve found that it’s a bit limited in styling. So the big one that gets me is I always like to adjust the line height in paragraphs in emails so that there’s a nice–

– [Ian] Space.

– [Craig] We’ll call it breathing room around paragraphs, but you can’t actually override that so I find that frustrating, so I tend to be putting a whole lot of returns or blank lines in emails, which isn’t ideal, but it’s the way I get around it. You can’t actually add HTML scripts of any kind. They get stripped out. I guess that’s again to protect people from themselves. But the reason we found that is because we tried to get a CTA. There’s no native CTA module to just drag on to the email, but we thought oh, let’s go, let’s be smart, let’s go and get the embed code. Oh yeah, we’ll try that, put it into the source view. Nope, the editor just cleans that right out, strips it out. So for example, you can’t actually override this. We can’t set at the email level styling for links to be anything other than their defaults. So I normally don’t like underlines on links, but I use a border underneath a link because I think it’s a nicer style. And that’s pretty common. Or hover over things. But anyway, you can’t do those kind of things. However, they’re not showstoppers. But the CTA one was. So we do have a workaround

– [Ian] A solution.

– [Craig] A solution for the CTA issue, so I’ll go through that now. Basically, and this is a big thank you to Monchurn from the HubSpot support team. I got straight onto the chat with her, I was like, “What’s going on? How come I can’t add a CTA?” She goes, “Oh, let me check.” So, you know how we said a couple of weeks ago, the support people, they’re no dummies. It’s not the junior out there.

– [Ian] That’s correct.

– [Craig] These are smart people. So she gets straight on and she goes, “Oh, okay. Yep, I’ve replicated. Can’t do that. “Ah, I’ll try and embed the code.” I know I’ve already tried that. She said, “No, okay. That didn’t work. “Okay, so what I’m just gonna do, “so I’m just gonna create a custom control “and then let’s see if we can go from the more “if I can add a custom control into the thing that has the CTA.” She goes hang on, “I’ll just check that out.” and I’m like, “Oh, okay. That sounds like a good idea.” She comes back, “Okay, here. “I’ve created a custom control in your portal. Here it is.” She gives me a link. This is all in the chat, right. And she goes, “Here’s what you do.” And she even sent me a screenshot. “Drag that on and insert your CTA.” And it worked. Now the only thing is that it didn’t really render in the design view of the editor, but as soon as you send yourself a test, it did render the CTA nicely. So it worked. And so that’s actually a really cool workaround. So with that in mind, we’re sharing kind of what she did and I’ve got a few screenshots in the show notes about how to set up a custom control, or custom module rather. You basically create a custom module to be used in emails. Can be a local one. Then you basically add a field to that custom module. This is all in the show notes. And then you add a little bit of code, which we’ve got in the show notes there, and then you can drag it straight on back in your email. Drag it back on. And then there’s CTAs in your drag-and-drop editor. And of course I’m hoping–

– [Ian] That this is a standard.

– [Craig] No, hoping that this solution lasts for about a week or two, because we go, “Oh, hang on. They’ve added CTAs to the drag and drop editor like they should have done in the first place.” Anyway, there’s the interim solution.

– [Ian] All right, on to HotSpot sales pitch of the week, Craig. And we’re gonna talk about being direct, and not disguising your intentions.

– [Craig] Actually can I set this up? I’ll say is there a way in that we can determine if leads are sales-ready?

– [Ian] Absolutely Craig.

– [Craig] What is this secret magical tip?

– [Ian] It is as simple as adding this question to your form. Are you ready to speak to us, yes or no?

– [Craig] I love this, because it’s like how do you determine if leads are sales-ready? You ask them.

– [Ian] Correct. And so we’ve been doing this with one of our customers, and it’s actually worked really well. Because where you think someone might be ready to speak to the sales team, they actually might not be. But here you’re giving the opportunity. And so what we’re doing is we’re able to filter out what sales follow up, and be active about that versus following up every single lead that comes through. And it’s working really well.

– [Craig] And it’s all about being direct as you said at the start. Because we put in these fields to disguise our intentions. So the typical one is what’s your timeframe for purchase, just researching, not to three months, etc. All to basically slot them in your segment and then put them into a nurture. They’re kind of disguising it, and really what we’re saying is, “Should we contact you straightaway?” Because as soon as someone puts in the next couple of months, straight on to the phone to them. Why don’t we just ask them? And so I really like that. Would you like us to call you? You put that as a question. Now, a lot of people won’t. And these were the same people that when you ask for a phone number, they put in zero, zero, zero, etc. But there are people that’ll say, “Yes, the reason that I’m filling out this “form is because I want to actually go to “the next step, and I want you to contact me.” And of course, that’s it, straight through to sales

– [Ian] That’s right. And so you can make that a dependent field, right? So basically if they answer yes, then show them the mobile phone input. If they answer no, they don’t do anything and just push that submit button.

– [Craig] Absolutely right. Let’s start actually treating people intelligently. Like a prospect.

– [Ian] Yes. All right, Craig, on to our Marketing Gotcha of the Week.

– [Craig] Well, quite simply our Marketing Gotcha was that you couldn’t add CTAs to the drag-and-drop email editor and thanks to HubSpot Support that’s been solved.

– [Ian] That’s right. All right, Marketing Tip of the Week, Craig. We’re talking about Google Analytics intelligence, and this is insights in Google Analytics. And you’ll see this because there’s a lot of machine learning and artificial intelligence running, so they’re actually able to give us insights. But let’s take this a step further.

– [Craig] I hadn’t actually tried this. There’s a little search box at the top of Google Analytics And you can type in anything. I didn’t even know about this. I was blind to it.

– [Ian] Because I think when you do that, your assumption is that you’re searching for a particular feature to get to or your searching for some help.

– [Craig] Well, I think ’cause I’m so used to analytics, I know my way around. So I saw it as a help box. How do I find the journal’s report? Like you said, it’s navigation. Well, it does do all that as well. But no, this is about you ask a question. So you just basically ask it questions. What was my best performing page last week? How much revenue did we make? What’s the best channel? Like you ask it questions, and it gives you these answers.

– [Ian] Very conversational, Craig.

– [Craig] It is conversational and it’s really smart, and surprisingly helpful. So, we’ve got a few screenshots. Ya know how I found out about this?

– [Ian] By accident?

– [Criag] No, I was giving training on Google Analytics at a client site last week, and they said, “What’s that box up at the top?” I was like, “I think it’s just a help box.” I learn things in training. I’ve been training clients for years on Google Analytics on these kinds of things. There’s so many new things that come out. I think this is a good reminder to me and maybe to other people listening that are very familiar with it, you just kind of have this blindness. You’re so used to doing what you do, you don’t go exploring or finding other things, or you miss new features. And look, this is really good.

– [Ian] Mind you, Google is not that great at telling us about new features but

– [Craig] Well, maybe. There’s been a box staring me in the face for how long? It’s probably been there for ages.

– [Ian] It’s probably been there for a year, Craig.

– [Craig] I don’t know. But anyway, make use of it folks. It’s really good.

– [Ian] All right, Insight of the Week, Craig.

– [Craig] Here’s a paraphrase of a Seth Godin kind of approach.

– [Ian] Is this from his book?

– [Craig] This is not. Well no, this is from a while back at one of his posts.

– [Ian] Okay.

– [Craig] Could be part of his book, really. And picking up what you started with Inbound Thought of the Week about helping people, here’s what he says about marketing. “Marketing should do one thing. Build more trust.” Okay, I’m paraphrasing it, but that it’s in a nutshell. I thought that was very interesting. I was reminded of this today when I was reading an article. But this whole idea about marketing, and so I’ve been just putting together a newsletter for our agency . I was like, “What am I doing in this newsletter? “Am I trying to sell? “What am I trying to do?” And actually I found this comment really helpful. I’m just trying to build more trust. Trying to help people, and I’m aiming for them to trust me more. It’s predominantly for existing clients. Like there are leads and prospects on the list as well, but it’s really about clients. I want to help them better, and I want them to trust us more. And so I found this comment really good. And so really I think the takeaway, and why we’re mentioning it in the show, is ask yourself this. Any time you’re working on marketing piece, does this ad, does this email, does this article, does this blog, does this campaign, does this strategy help people and build more trust? Because if it doesn’t, then perhaps it’s time to question it.

– [Ian] All right, on to our Retirement of the Week, Craig.

– [Craig] Do you use the social reports in HubSpot? And in particular, the Twitter? Some of the Twitter pieces like journals, , and sent items, and stuff? Have you ever used those?

– [Ian] I started using the new ones

– [Craig] Right. These old ones, well apparently they’re taking them out. I was like, “Oh, I didn’t even know they were there.” So apparently, do you know why–

– [Ian] It was highly used.

– [Craig] Low usage. I’m like, “Oh, well that makes sense.” There’s one I can totally understand.

– [Ian] But have a look at this, right? This is interesting. And I look at it from the perspective of they’re clearly measuring stuff and measuring what people are looking at. Now it takes extra resource to actually produce these reports and give it to people. Multiply that by the number of accounts and users they have to do this for. That’s a potential massive saving.

– [Craig] Oh, so you think there’s a utilization–

– [Ian] Utilization.

– [Craig] Over here.

– [Ian] Absolutely.

– [Craig] Well, but if no one’s using, or you mean preparing it for no one to use? There is that as well.

– [Ian] Correct. Yeah.

– [Craig] I more think about the code base.

– [Ian] Yeah, well that’s exactly right.

– [Craig] Keeping the code base maintained. Because these things break over time, especially a Twitter piece. Ah, it’s broken. Well, no one’s using it. Let’s take it out. That’s one less bit of code that we have to test on each release, and update, and stuff like that. Yeah, totally.

– [Ian] What was that really interesting stat we saw in the HubSpot update about duplicate data or about having unclean data costing businesses three trillion dollars a year.

– [Craig] Was it trillion?

– [Ian] Yeah, it was something huge.

– [Craig] How’d they calculate that?

– [Ian] Yeah, but it was a big number. I mean this is one of the things, and it doesn’t have to just be data that you’re managing. It could be anything that you work with. Is it a tool? Is it things in your process that you’re doing that’s actually not required anymore? Like talking to somebody in sales today, they were saying one of his colleagues was saying, “Like, why do I want to do a demo? “They can watch a video?”

– [Craig] That’s a good point.

– [Ian] Right? So prior, if you think about it, when really good video walkthroughs and demos of products weren’t available someone would actually show you, walk you through it, and do that.

– [Craig] Because I get the logic of that, but quite often I’ll send videos to people and they don’t watch them, but they want to get on a Zoom call and I go through exactly the same thing. And they’re like, “Oh, great.” Even if they don’t ask questions, they’re like, “Oh, cool. Thanks for showing me that.” I’m like it’s exactly what was in the video. There was something about doing it in person that some people prefer. And in fact, there is doing an in-person I don’t prefer. I’d much prefer to get a video because for starters, I can watch it at double-speed. But so I can just stop it, go back, whatever. So I actually prefer a video, but I know some people don’t. They prefer that personal walkthrough.

– [Ian] And here’s the thing, this is maybe one of those questions you ask. How would you prefer to have a demonstration? Would you like to watch a video, or would you like a live walkthrough?

– [Craig] Yeah, well here’s building on it, Ya know webinars?

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] Ya know webinars are still big. I can’t believe people sign up to attend a webinar at a later time. And then quite often you attend the webinar and it’s pre-recorded, right?

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] You’ve had to sign up to watch it–

– [Ian] And have to wait.

– [Craig] And wait, and then you get to see the video. It’s pre-recorded and it’s a YouTube video. And then you go, “Oh, hang on. “I’ll just click on it. “Ah, here it is on YouTube. “I could’ve gone and seen it straight on YouTube.” It still works for some reason. People are signing up for those kind of, well I sign up for them. I’m a fool myself. But it just seems like an inefficiency, but it’s still really, what’s the word? I don’t know about popular, but it’s still–

– [Ian] It’s still working in certain segments of the market.

– [Craig] It’s still .

– [Ian] All right, Craig. Onto our Resource of the Week. Understanding all the different Google sections in the search results. And this is a post from?

– [Craig] From We are ROAST. And it’s a good summary. You look at Google these days, and how many organic results do you see?

– [Ian] Well, there right down the bottom.

– [Craig] You’re lucky if you see any. But there’s always other things. Knowledge panels, knowledge boxes, ask boxes.

– [Ian] Answer boxes.

– [Craig] I’m sorry, answer boxes. People also ask boxes. Of course there’s maps, listings, there’s shopping results. Tons of things. There’s all those different things. Oh, plus there’s the occasional just search result.

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] There’s all those things. Well, if you wanted a good overview, I actually use this in training. I was giving some SEO training to a client last week and we went through all of them, and they were just like, “Oh, yeah.” People don’t realize how complex Google is getting these days. And of course the result that Google wants is for you to never leave Google. All the answers stay on Google. So there’s this fight for actually getting attention first, but then click through second.

– [Ian] I think it’s very, very valuable to understand. Like, it changes on a daily basis. And when we’re doing stuff we’ll be testing things, and were like, “Oh, never seen that before.” And I’ll show you stuff, but you’re not seeing it. So it’s really interesting. And this is happening across the board, but people are actually not understanding because they’re seeing what they want to see. They’re getting the results that they want to get, and they’re getting better at doing that. That people don’t even realize that it’s happening.

– [Craig] Yeah, it’s a self-reinforcing bubble that we put ourselves into.

– [Ian] All right, what’s our Quote of the Week, Craig?

– [Craig] Here’s the quote. “If you deliberately plan “on being less than you’re capable of being, “then I warn you that you’ll be unhappy the rest of your life.” That’s a quote from Abraham Maslow. So you remember Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs? I think we all learned that at school. That’s a quote from him way back when, and I just thought that was useful. Be your best. Don’t be less. I think people do sometimes just couldn’t be bothered, and they’re unhappy. So not really a marketing-related quote. Just a life–

– [Ian] A life-related quote.

– [Craig] A life gem, there you go.

– [Ian] All right, we would love you to leave us a rating on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, on any platform that you listen to us on. It will greatly help us reach more people, and we would love if you could actually share it with somebody that you know that really enjoys marketing and sales, and maybe using HubSpot. Because it’s such a great way to get in front of them. Until next time, Craig.

– [Craig] Catch you later, Ian. Hey, there. Thanks for listening to this episode of HubShots. For show notes and the latest HubSpot news and tips, please visit us at HubShots.com

Episode 164: Are HubSpot Workflows useful for Sales?

Welcome to Episode 164 of HubShots!

Welcome to HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

We hope you enjoy the podcast as much as HubSpot’s CEO, Brian Halligan does.

This episode we chat about buyer journeys, using HubSpot workflows to set contact owners, how to find out what ads a company is running on Instagram, and what it means to be a Head of Marketing.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/164-are-hubspot-workflows-useful-for-sales

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD3Uo4X-IxPJLE8ygPDQhNQ

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Recorded: Thursday 04 July 2019 | Published: Wednesday 10 July 2019

Shot 1: Inbound Thought of the Week

Gating content – do we need to rethink our approach?


From David C Baker:

“More than that, I see that most firms who gather all this data don’t really do anything with it, anyway, so why create the user friction in the first place?”

Here’s a summary of his 8 key points (read the post for all the details of each):

  1. Only gate content late in the funnel
  2. Quit disappointing prospects with content that is not gate-worthy
  3. Your CTA should only request information that you will actually use
  4. Be careful with pillar articles if they are merely disingenuous attempts to gate things
  5. Never ask for a phone number
  6. Trust the process. Trust Google. Quit operating from a scarcity viewpoint
  7. Have a privacy statement if you want, but don’t pretend that it’ll reassure anyone
  8. Make it easy to sign up for your stuff

The key takeaway: be thoughtful about what you gate, what you ask for, and what you do with it.

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Looking forward to using Form in Conversations:


Ideally, we’d be able to create forms for different parts of the site, and have these go into separate Conversations inboxes – seems like this is coming. Yay!

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Using Workflows to allocate Contact Owners

You can use workflows to allocate contacts to having a Contact owner.

Previously you only allocate to users with paid versions of HubSpot, but they have removed this restriction.

Note: if you want to use owners random rotation though, HubSpot advises you still need to have a paid seat (see below).

XEN   All Form Submits   HubSpot 1

XEN   All Form Submits   HubSpot

Note that there seems to be a bug that allows you to rotate between members in Child teams (even though you can’t at the Parent Team level.

Shot 4: Marketing Gotcha of the Week

Not appreciating the number of touches in a customer’s journey


Search behavior has changed the path to purchase   Think with Google

Justin   Shopping for cars   Think with Google

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

How to see the ads that a company is running on Instagram

Eg here’s how to see what ads HubSpot are running:

  • On mobile app go to their Profile
  • Top right, click the 3 dots and choose ‘About this account’
  • Choose the ‘Active Ads’ option

IMG 0764

Note: this won’t appear for all accounts – it seems to depend on the number of followers on the account ie only shows for accounts with large followings.

IMG 0765

IMG 0763

Shot 6: Insight of the Week

The inefficiency of the web

From SEObook: Google Recaptcha Breaking Websites, Lowering Conversion Rates, Costing Businesses Real Revenues on Ecommerce Websites


“AMP is an utterly unnecessary invention designed to further shift power to Google while disenfranchising publishers.”

A good reminder that just because there is something new and shiny, it doesn’t mean it is a good idea.

You may still end up having to use it, but that still doesn’t mean it is a good thing.

Another example of inefficiency: URL shorteners

Twitter came along and limited the number of characters to use in a tweet

So tools were created to allow URL shortening so that long links could be included in tweets

Summary: a totally unnecessary process – a tool in the middle to undo the limitation of Twitter

Takeaway: be thoughtful about your marketing stack, your marketing reports, your marketing activities

Shot 7: Retirement of the Week

Say goodbye to the good old listings that used to appear in Google – fare thee well my good and faithful SERPs.

Shot 8: Resource of the Week

Typical intent terms

From Tim Soulo at ahrefs


intent tim

Shot 9: Quote of the Week

What does it mean to be the ‘Head of Marketing’?


The reason that the tenure of a CMO at a big company averages about 18 months is that it takes a year and a half for the boss to realize that pain-free, risk-free, easy miracles aren’t arriving on schedule.

“To be the head of marketing, you need the freedom and responsibility to change the way things work, not simply how they’re talked about.”

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week

Tools to investigate:


Please leave us a simple star rating as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

hubshots episode 164: hubspot workflows

Episode 164 Transcript

– [Ian] Hi everyone, welcome to HubShots Episode 164. In this episode, we talk about buyer journeys, using HubSpot Workflows to set contact owners, how to find out what ads a company’s running on Instagram, and what it means to be the head of marketing. You’re listening to Asia Pacific’s number one HubSpot-focused podcast where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks, and features for growing your sales, marketing, and service results. We hope you enjoy the podcast as much as HubSpot’s CEO Brian Halligan does.

– [Brian] Thanks for creating this podcast, it’s awesome. I listen to it on the weekends and I really enjoy it.

– [Ian] My name is Ian Jacob from Search and Be Found and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. How are you, Craig?

– [Craig] Oh, really good, and you know, a new financial year here in Australia.

– [Ian] That’s right.

– [Craig] So we’re recording this on the 4th of July.

– [Ian] Which is Independence Day.

– [Craig] Oh, it is, yes, so, to our American listeners.

– [Ian] You know what, I was in America, bit of a side note, I was in Hawaii last Independence Day and I absolutely loved it. I kinda wish I was in Hawaii again. Looking at the .

– [Craig] Don’t we all?

– [Ian] Anyway, Craig, on to our Inbound Thought of the Week, and we’re gonna look at David C. Baker, talks about gating content and do we need to rethink our approach.

– [Craig] Now, we both love David C. Baker. He’s like a consultant’s consultant in a way.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] I think we both read his book. I loved his book. But he has a wonderful blog and he writes about, well, I think thoughtful marketing and he’s got a post talking about rethinking gating content and this isn’t a new topic and as he says in the post, he’s been thinking about this for years, this idea of what should we gate? Well, a few things really. What should we gate? What should we gate it with, you know, how many fields? And then more importantly, how do we actually use that data? Because he rightly points out so many of these forms, they ask for so much data that people never use and so I don’t want to position his post as being prescriptive. It’s really just thought-provoking, so think about this, and he makes a few points, in fact, eight key points that he says, and maybe we’ll quickly jump through a few of these.

– [Ian] Yeah, let’s go through it.

– [Craig] Yeah, so the first one he says is only gate content late in the funnel, and maybe we’ll just mention the points and then I’m gonna pull out two that I wanna expand further on but in the blog post, go and read it where he expands it out. But number one, only gate content made in the funnel.

– [Ian] Yup, number two is quit disappointing prospects with content that is not gate-worthy.

– [Craig] Number three, your CTA should only request information that you will actually use.

– [Ian] Number four, be careful with pillar articles if they are merely disingenuous attempts to gate things.

– [Craig] Number five, never ask for a phone number, and I’m gonna come back to this one.

– [Ian] Number six, trust the process, trust Google. Quit operating it from a scarcity view point.

– [Craig] Number seven, have a privacy statement if you want but don’t pretend that it’ll reassure anyone.

– [Ian] And finally number eight, make it easy to sign up for your stuff.

– [Craig] That’s a good way to close it. And he flushes each of these and he gives a good talk for minutes around them. But the one, never ask for a phone number, I thought this was an interesting one to think about depending on the business and the industry you’re in.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] ‘Cause well, many of our clients, B-to-B, phone number is mandatory. They must ask for the phone number ’cause their sales team would jump on that and how people today is calling them. The comment I was gonna make though is include a phone number if you wanna use it as a qualifier because it’s actually a good way to stop people filling out forms and filling this fits junk, people just downloading things and never having no intent. So I actually think a phone number can be a good thing but use it wisely. But as he says, why use it if you’re never actually gonna call ’em? That’s just annoying.

– Exactly.

– And scary.

– [Ian] But I think you find this, thinking back to the previous episode where we talked about some lead ads you were running and asking for a phone number in the lead ad and what that did to your conversion and what that did to people’s behavior essentially, so I think it’s a really good point.

– [Craig] Coming back to his point one, I only gate content late in the funnel. I’d actually apply that to phone numbers. Should you be putting a phone number at the top of the funnel? Probably not, possibly, probably not. But yeah, later in the funnel, it’s very much a qualifier. And look, people will get around it anyway. If they don’t want a phone number, I’ll put in zero, zero, zero, get all those junk numbers clean because they’re just sort of fill it in however the key take away from this be thoughtful about what you get what you asked for and what you do with it. If you ask for the data at least use it.

– [Ian] All right Craig, HubSpot marking feature of the week and looking forward to using forms in conversation.

– [Craig] Did you say this without talking about this is coming soon, I think they’re just rolling it out in new portals but you know you can have a support forum and you’ve got conversations.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] What kind of makes sense that if someone fills out a support forum okay, into the conversation?

– into the conversation?

– [Craig] Currently, they have team inboxes, let’s say you’ve got support at mydomain.com, that the email goes in, that’s a conversation, what about if you had a forum there? Anyway that’s coming and really the point of what I’d like to see and I think this is where it said it is look any forum, surely you can wire up any form to an inbox conversation. That’s what I’d like.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] Anyway, that’s the feature coming soon, I like it, looking forward to it.

– [Ian] All right, perhaps for sales for the week Craig is using work first to allocate contact owners. So you can use WordPress to allocate contacts to having a contact owner.

– [Craig] Yeah, so we’ve discussed this before, I mean this itself is not a particularly new feature however it is under utilized but a few nuances we’re gonna pull out.

– [Ian] Okay, and this is more to do with the lead rotation within a workflow, so I think what’s interesting is that we found in the portal we have sales professional users but at the high level, let’s let’s say the team above the super team, you can’t actually assign that team to the lead rotation.

– [Craig] Yes, so what they’re saying is in workflows you can allocate a contact owner to a contact and you can choose any of your user, those scammers. But if you want to rotate it so that it automatic or randomly rotates it between the team, you’re like oh, okay, so when I was looking at this, the announcement about that they’ve made it easier for people to be allocated even if they’re not paid, I’m looking at rotation ongoing. So according to what I’m reading them saying, you can’t rotate between people unless they are all pro users but that doesn’t seem to be the case in the portals where we are testing and it seems to be the case when people have set up parent-child teams. So I don’t know if this is a bug or there’s like a little loophole here but it seems if you use child teams, you can definitely rotate between them and they don’t have to be paid users. So I’m a bit confused, I don’t know if this is just a loophole or a bargain, I’ve misunderstood the way written the article but in any case it’s great because now you can just allocate between anyone on the team. They don’t have to be a pain user.

– [Ian] True.

– [Craig] I wonder how long that will last.

– [Ian] Let’s see.

– [Craig] We got two screenshots there of different ways you can allocate people as well.

– [Ian] Yes, and we’ve spoken in previous episodes about the lead rotation about balancing that out among sales team. And I think you’re right, it is an underutilized feature within HubSpot.

– [Craig] Yeah, and I think the reason we wanted to call this out and why we mentioned at the top of the show is using work players in sales because often you would chat with people about our using workflows, we’re doing that on the marketing, so we’ve got email matches, oh okay, cool. And so what about on the sales side? Oh yeah, we’ve got sequences set up, oh okay. What about using work Flyers for deals and just general contact maintenance and things like that? People don’t think of it. They think that workflows are just a marketing function and I guess this is just a very simple example of where you can incorporate it in a sales process.

– [Ian] All right, onto a marketing gotcha of the week Craig and this is not appreciating the number of touches in a customer’s journey. And this is a bit of content on think with Google, it’s actually really well done, there’s a piece of content above this interactive content that basically shows you from the data that they have that the customer journey is not linear. Kind of fluctuates based on what people are doing and who they are. And if you drill down into it you can actually interactively go through a journey of a particular type of customer. There’s Wendy who’s 68, she had 120 plus touch points on–

– [Craig] On her journey to purchase the car–

– [Ian] And you had one on the other side who was 25, who had 600 plus touch points in six days and then we had Justin who was took 24 days and had 110 plus .

– [Craig] 24 days go the extra.

– [Ian] That’s right, so at this highlights to you like the different parts people are taking and how they’re going about it and it really gives a good understanding of how people even looking for a similar product, how different their journeys are, and they do it across the automotive electronics, food and beverage, personal care, retail and travel. So it’s really fascinating, so I’d encourage you to have a look at it. But what is some of the key stuff that we highlight in there Craig?

– [Craig] Yeah, well, I thought they did a good job of visualizing this funnel moments where they’re basically saying wide peak, narrow peak and this idea that the number of touches increases when they’re researching and then when they’re at a particular purchase inflection, it’s really narrow and come down to very specific touches that there are. So I thought it was really, you know I’ve never really seen it put like that before, I thought that was a good insight.

– [Ian] I really like the purchase junction .

– [Craig] Purchase junction, yes.

– [Ian] The point a which a user makes a purchase but then continues searching.

– [Craig] Continues on searching, I don’t know if they’re buying all the cars but certainly we know in other areas that once they buy, that actually opens them up to buying a lot of other things depending on the industry of course and whether it’s a repeat purchase market. But yes, that’s it. Get them in a purchase and then immediately advertise to them again or immediately try and touch them again to get multiple subsequent purchases.

– [Ian] I think that’s really interesting, I would think that this has happened to me before when I’ve been buying some things online. I bought something in literally within 10 minutes of buying a couple of products on this one site, I got an email back saying well you can buy more and it’s free shipping, right. Oh I know, I just paid for shipping but now I can buy more stuff and just not pay any more shipping. So incentivize people, incentivize me to add more stuff that had already paid.

– [Craig] There’s limited offers but there’s also accessorizing, it’s the normal off sale. So one of the old, everyone would know this, but one of the things they teach you in retail of course is when you go in someone’s shopping for clothes is the perfect example. You going I want a suit and a shirt and the belt and socks and that, they never start with, oh well, let’s find the belt for you sir, it’s always okay start with the most expensive items because once they get over that dumb purchase hurdle, oh my goodness, how much, okay, great. Then belt seems like a bargain and as a percentage wise, that’s what we do psychologically, we get our odds not that much because we consider it relative to the purchase we’ve just made. Well, in the online space, this is of course the same depending on, you know, could actually be closed for all we know but in those places accessorizing and think about in your business where accessorizing might be because it might be a big consulting piece followed up with some little one-off audits or whatever it is, whatever it is you’re selling, but yeah, it’s all around understanding those moments. And that purchase inflection point is a key one.

– [Ian] Okay, onto marketing ability Craig,

– [Craig] You know in Facebook, you can get our Facebook company page and you can see what they’re advertising on. I think most people, most marketing managers will know that I wanna see what this brands advertising or I will just go their Facebook page and look Have you ever wondered oh, how do I see that on Instagram? Is there a way to see? Well, it turns out there is, it’s got to be in the app though. And we’ve got a few screenshots, in fact I’ll show you what HubSpots advertising on Instagram at the moment but it’s pretty easy in the app, you just go in, you go to their profile, go at the top right with those three dots and you’re looking for an entry that says About this account, have a look at that and then you can see they’re active ads. So we’ve got a few screenshots there, we can see nice range of ads that HubSpot is advertising.

– [Ian] So now Craig when I saw this in the show notes, I thought oh, I’m gonna go test this out on a few accounts that we were looking at. I’m like, hang on, I can’t see that, why is that? Anyway, it doesn’t appear for all the accounts ’cause users depend on the number of followers you have on your account. So just be aware of that if you think, oh I’m just gonna check this out, what are these guys talking about? It’s because of the number of followers. Have a look at a few accounts you follow and see what ads they actually running. Some of them actually might have the About this account but you might actually not seen yet any ads running. So just be aware of that too. But a great thing to work out what is going on and what people are advertising on. All right, Craig onto inside of the week and it’s talking about the inefficiency of the web. And this is from SEO book, Google reCAPTCHA breaking websites lowering conversion rates costing businesses real revenue on e-commerce websites.

– [Craig] So we have a reader of SEO book , I grew up on Erin Wall.

– [Ian] Oh, did you?

– [Craig] Yeah, I just, so it’s fantastic. So listeners may not know this but I used to be an SEO consultant, that’s a dirty word they say Yeah, I did a lot of SEO, probably decade ago now, but Erin Wall was the man, he was the legend of SEO and so I was member of his community for many years, it’s fantastic, yeah. He’s gonna be quite the last couple of years and you know traffic think-tank with Matt Barber and that, I almost think of TTT as the new SEO Book. It’s coming from… It’s the same kind of community vibe experts in there and things like that. But anyway, I digress. He does put out the occasional post on SEO book. And by the way, if you know since not even HTTPS, I don’t know if he’s doing that on purpose. He’s got doing SSL on his site, I don’t know what’s going on, it’s just sweet. Anyway, that’s an aside. In this post, he’s talking about AMP which is excited mobile pages, Google’s little baby, and he’s highlighting it as an example of inefficiency on the web. We didn’t need AMP, we didn’t need that, we’ve got the HTML standard which is perfectly fine. Of course all these people come along and load massive payloads of add scripts and all kinds of things onto it but then Google says, oh no, we’re gonna take that perfectly valid standard and we’re gonna strip it back and then we’re gonna put all our own kind of packaging around it and then force you to use it. And so his post is quite a critical one of Google as many of his posts are just about the way they’re kind of abusing their position of power and taking standards and just, I guess, corrupting them for their own good.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] And so I think this is a very good post to read but it just reminds me of inefficiency in so many things. So the takeaway from this and why I wanted to chat about it in the show is because as marketers, just be careful when you find yourself doing things inefficiently to overcome other things that shouldn’t have even been there in first place.

– In the first place.

– [Craig] So I’ll give you, this is my favorite example, you know Twitter has a limit to the number of characters, that has kind of increased lately, but it’s still quite small. So you put their small tweets. And so if you wanted to put a URL in, you couldn’t because it’s too long. So people created URL shorteners, so you can shorten URL to put it into Twitter. It’s like Twitter created a problem and someone else has created a solution to this problem. It shouldn’t have been a problem in the first place, it’s so inefficient, Twitter just should have said, you are all . It’s like they created this false problem that needed a solution to fix this from. So that’s inefficiency in their own.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] You don’t have to think too hard before you start saying this everywhere. All these tools that people put together to solve problems that shouldn’t be problems in the first place, AMP is one of them, there’s all these others. Yeah, you know reCAPTCHA?

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] So that puts a pixel on sites, one of the things he said in this blog post is that Bing ads used to use reCAPTCHA as a confirmation thing to log in. So what it meant was Bing ads and all its Bing Microsoft properties had a Google reCAPTCHA pixel on all their sites to just kind of drink all this information. It’s like, dude I realize he put reCAPTCHA on his site and of course HubSpot has it in there on blog post reCAPTCHA. Thank you, that’s a Google pixel in their tracking, people wonder how they get tracked everywhere, this is it, all these little pixels for problems that we’ve kind of known going on around here, reCAPTCHA, right, so they’ve got these things so that BOTS can’t overcome . It’s like they’re putting all this money into AI to create BOTS that will be able to do the things that people don’t have to do them and then they put a reCAPTCHA in place to supposedly stop so it’s only real people. So you’ve got like this problem to solve–

– [Ian] The self-perpetuating–

– [Craig] Yeah, it’s like I’ll create a thing that only BOTS can’t solve to stop what’s going in but will create AI that’s so smart that it can overcome these things. It’s just this is what I call inefficiency. Anyway, I could go on with that with all these kinds of things. The takeaway, be thoughtful about your marketing stack and your marketing reports and your marketing activities. I look, I could get start on marketing reports, how many reports you see people creating that answering a question no one is asking–

– [Ian] That’s right.

– [Craig] And then as a result of that report someone else is going all I need this too, we need it. Oh yeah, what do we need that for? I don’t know but let’s do another report to find out. It’s just this, and so it goes on. Should I stop there, I think I’ve said enough.

– [Ian] Yes, you should. All right, onto the retired of the week Craig.

– [Craig] Oh you know what’s retired from the Google search results, organic results, that’s whats retired.

– [Ian] Yes, you know what, if we have pressed to find some organic results these days with more than half the page being paid local maps, product, it’s any wonder.

– [Craig] Yeah, people also ask, knowledge base year.

– [Ian] All right, Craig resource of the week.

– [Craig] Nice one here from Tim Silver, so just put this on Twitter and just it’s very simple, this is not some groundbreaking thing, it’s just good is this the terms for around intent. I see now when people search for stuff on Google there’s kind of different intent, purchase intent or transaction intents, often referred to, but there’s no vocational intern, there’s educational, there’s entertainment intent. Anyway he’s got just a list of some of these terms. So well, I’ll have a look at that what’s some of the informational intent terms that you’d find?

– [Ian] Yeah, I think that’s interesting. I mean when, I mean if I’m reading this right, if you type in a what–

– [Craig] Any queries that have what like questions, what, who, what, how, where.

– [Ian] Yeah, and then it says and the transactional its coupon, what does that mean?

– [Craig] If people this were to search for things, it’s just showing their intent. So if they’ve got buy red shoes or coupon for the iconic or things like that, it’s probably showing that that’s a transactional intent. They’re looking to purchase order, how to order, store lookups, those kind of things.

– [Ian] It’s basically everything across that line is not related to each other.

– [Craig] Oh no, sorry. There’s four columns, like there’s informational terms, navigational, investigative ones and then transactional purchase.

– [Ian] Yeah, okay, I get it, absolutely.

– [Craig] So whenever to buy or–

– [Ian] Yeah, absolutely, so that’s… I mean I think that I’ve actually seen and I was reading Google report is that a lot of people actually typing in ‘the near me’–

– [Craig] Yes, which they don’t need to.

– [Ian] Which still don’t need to especially when you’re talking about search locally. So I think over 60% of search for product ends up actually where people are looking to walk into a store and purchase the products. They’re often wanting it soon. So I’ll go to a perfect example. I was going for a presentation the other day, I figured oh, last time I went for the presentation I couldn’t connect my computer up to the projector, I needed that HDMI. I’m thinking, oh hang on, which one am I gonna get. So I actually went through this project, I went onto the web, I was searching, okay well, hey what’s the best connector. And then once I realized what was good, I then went okay, well, where can I get it, right? I need it to be in the vicinity of either on my travel to my destination or within the vicinity of the office. What was interesting it on a store that I thought was nearby that would potentially have it didn’t have it and I had to travel little bit further away but I was thinking, why is that the case? And maybe it did have it but it wasn’t showing up on the search results. Anyway, I couldn’t take the chance, I went to the one I knew that would have stock and that’s what I did. So I kind of just thought about the process I’ve gone through and I thought, well, this is really interesting, my need was pretty immediate. It really didn’t come down to price, it was more about convenience and distance that drove my activity.

– [Craig] That’s an excellent example of the buyers journey in a particular scenario, that’s exactly right.

– [Ian] That’s right, and if I had needed that how I thought about this a bit earlier, I would have probably ordered of Amazon and got it delivered to my house.

– [Craig] Yes, so that wasn’t our comparison shopping, that was urgency shopping.

– [Ian] Correct, so there you go. All right, you got a crack a quote of the week Craig, What does it mean to be the head of marketing?

– [Craig] Good posts from Seth on this and we’ve got two little quote phrase pulled out, I couldn’t choose them, the best one, but actually it’s not just a quote of the week, it’s like article of the week head of marketing. And his idea, I’ll capture his nutshell of his idea is, well, what’s the head of marketing like, what do they do? He basically says, here’s the killer quote, to be the head of marketing you need the freedom and responsibility to change the way things work not simply how they’re talked about. And the idea being it’s not just about brand and messaging, it’s actually about changing things. That’s what my and his book is on all about marketing, it’s about change, making a change in people. But he actually says the reason that the tenure of the same big company average is about 18 months is that it takes about a year and a half for the boss to realize the pain free risk, free easy miracles aren’t arriving on schedule. They hire the head of marketing but the boss doesn’t wanna actually give up, it’s strategic. This head of marketing just becomes an operational person, then they realized, oh no, it’s not for me.

– [Ian] And you know what, true in the marketing sense but I think this can be across the board even in sales same thing. What are the behaviors you’re driving that this driving change. I only say that because I was in a meeting the other day and what was really interesting they could see the way people are buying and the way younger people interacting with people in sales has changed but when they said, oh well, what about if we give that to Bob? No, he’s not gonna do that, he’s not gonna use a CRM. And they’re like, we’re not gonna include him in on this, oh that’s really interesting. So there are people that have identified that I’m not going to change and then there are people that are gonna change and they will basically gonna split and carry on and I thought oh, this is really interesting.

– [Ian] Wow, so Bob’s getting put over in special projects.

– [Craig] Reading from that, the next redundancy round.

– [Ian] So, you know what, this is a really interesting thing. It doesn’t just span marketing, its sales, it’s even anything we do. Even us as technical people or agency owners we have to choose to change and make a difference. So definitely worth thinking about how we go about that. Now, Craig you’ve got a bonus link of a week which is a tool, what is this tool?

– [Craig] This is a Facebook advertising management tool. So I just wanted to check out to investigate, kind of a note to self what’s checking it out today but gonna dive into it.

– [Ian] Excellent, if anyone does try it out, please let us know.

– [Craig] Yes, by the way if there are any tool vendors out there that would like us to have a play with that tool and perhaps even review it on the show, just get in contact as soon as few details, obviously if it’s marketing related–

– [Ian] If it’s sales related–

– [Craig] That’s fine, that’d be great.

– [Ian] Well everyone we hope you enjoyed this show, please leave us a review on iTunes or Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to this, could be on Spotify, we would love you to leave us a review, just the star review is fine. And if you do take a screenshot and send it to us and we’ll send you something.

– [Craig] What will we send them, Something?

– [Ian] It’s maybe some socks Craig . Anyway, we will reward you with something that is of values, so please do that, send it to us, direct message us on Instagram and let us know. Well Craig until next time.

– [Craig] Catch you later Ian.

– [Announcer] Thank you for listening to this episode of HubShots for Schonox, resources, HubSpot News including practical strategies you can implement, visit us at hubshots.com.

Episode 163: HubSpot Artificial Intelligence (AI), Attribution Reports, and a $130 ceramic mug

Welcome to Episode 163 of HubShots!

Welcome to HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

We hope you enjoy the podcast as much as HubSpot’s CEO, Brian Halligan does.

This episode we discuss HubSpot’s approach to using AI in its product, plus dive into attribution reports, and then chat about paying $130 for a mug to keep your coffee warm.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/163-hubspot-artificial-intelligence-ai-attribution-reports-and-a-130-ceramic-mug/

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD3Uo4X-IxPJLE8ygPDQhNQ

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Recorded: Tuesday 25 June 2019 | Published: Friday 28 June 2019

Shot 1: Inbound Thought of the Week

What is Artificial Intelligence (AI)?

In basic terms, AI is an area of computer science that makes machines seem like they have human intelligence.

While it’s all the rage these days, AI isn’t new. The term “artificial intelligence” was first coined back in 1956 by Dartmouth professor John McCarthy. He called together a group of computer scientists and mathematicians to see if machines could learn like a young child does, using trial and error to develop formal reasoning. The project proposal said they’d figure out how to make machines “use language, form abstractions and concepts, solve kinds of problems now reserved for humans, and improve themselves.” That was more than 60 years ago.

Until the early 2000s, AI has remained mostly in the hands of experts. But during the past few years, AI has become commonplace for two reasons. First, huge amounts of data are being created every minute. In fact, more than 90% of the world’s data has been generated in the past two years. Second, our computers are faster than ever. They can make sense of that vast wealth of new information in seconds.

With that in mind, software companies like HubSpot are sprinting towards an AI-powered future, finding new ways to use AI to solve business problems.

Couple of things that we use often in HubSpot that is powered by AI:

  1. Duplicate contacts, now
  2. Loading data and how it matches columns where data could be loaded.
  3. Import scans. When you import email addresses into HubSpot, it scans your list for potential deliverability problems.


“That’s where AI comes in. It allows you to make decisions based on data that’s too broad for our human minds to process and analyze. Simply put, AI helps to scale personalization.”

Btw if you are interested in seeing how AI can generate content (and authors), check this out:


Almost everything is created by AI – the only things supplied were the blog post Titles.

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Attribution Reports in HubSpot


Q: What types of questions can I answer with attribution reports?

A: Attribution reports can give high level insight on questions such as the following:

  • Which channels or pages are converting the most leads within a given timeframe?
  • Where should I be investing my marketing resources?
  • Which landing pages or content offers are being viewed the most before someone becomes a customers?
  • Are there types of content offers that generate more leads over others?

Attribution   HubSpot 1

Note, you really want to have Enterprise edition to get all the different options eg in Pro you can’t see Source attribution:

Attribution   HubSpot 3

And you won’t be able to view the different Attribution models:

Attribution   HubSpot 2

You’ll need to have Enterprise in order to see these options:

Attribution   HubSpot


Key insights: you need to have good, clean, complete data in order for attribution reports to provide any additional insight.

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Documents tool

With the documents tool, you can build a library of content for your entire team to use and share with your contacts.

This is especially useful for sales to keep things consistent and updated like brochures and price lists that may be shared by a team of people.


Two of the features we love is tracking and reporting.

document share dialog box

Beware the test@test.com problem…

Shot 4: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

Reminder about using styling with HubSpot forms – it’s an option on forms in Pro and Enterprise:

Forms   HubSpot

This will also make sure that the form doesn’t render as an iFrame.

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

NeverBounce has real-time email verification and email cleaning services.

https://neverbounce.com – from HubSpot support!

1  New Message

Bonus: See also the AppSumo deal on ClearOut: https://appsumo.com/clearout/

Shot 6: Insight of the Week

Google My Business updates

Google’s ‘social network by stealth’ approach (let’s not mention Google Plus)


Shot 7: Thing of the Week

Ember Ceramic Mug



Shot 8: Resource of the Week

Facebook One-Sheeter Guides:


Setting a new record for number of CTAs to include in a single post. Congratulations Jon, you’re our winner with 6 CTAs!

Shot 9: Quote of the Week

“The second is trickier: the person who knows what to do next is the leader. We’re entirely nonhierarchical in that way. But in a combat environment, when split seconds make all the difference, there’s no time for second-guessing. When someone steps up to become the new leader, everyone, immediately, automatically, moves with him. It’s the only way we win.”

― Steven Kotler, Stealing Fire: How Silicon Valley, the Navy SEALs, and Maverick Scientists Are Revolutionizing the Way We Live and Work

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week




Please leave us a simple star rating as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.


Episode 163 Transcript

– [Ian] Welcome to HubShots episode 163. We talk about artificial intelligence and HubSpot, Attribution Reporting, and the 130 dollar ceramic mug. You’re listening to Asia Pacific’s number one HubSpot focus podcast where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks and strategies for growing your sales, marketing and service results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found, with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems, how are you Craig?

– [Craig] Oh look really good, except my coffee is a little bit cold. If only there were a solution to that problem.

– [Ian] And I will give you one as the show goes on Craig so just hold on.

– [Craig] Coming up in a short seven, okay.

– [Ian] All right, I wanna talk about our inbound thought of the week Craig, and we’ve spoken about artificial intelligence before in previous episodes, and how that relates to HubSpot, but I thought, let’s take a step back because some of us throw this term around and we don’t really get it. We don’t really fully understand it, it was even revealing to me as to what it was and how it came about.

– [Craig] Well that’s right because artificial intelligence, surely that’s just killer robots right?

– [Ian] That’s right. So I’m gonna read to you a bit about how it originated, and we’re gonna just talk about some of the things that we like that HubSpot are using artificial intelligence to do to make our lives easier on a day to day basis. So, artificial intelligence was first coined back in 1956 by a Dartmouth professor called John McCarthy, where he called a group of computer scientists and mathematicians to see if machines could learn like young children do. And using trial and error they developed formal reasoning. So what I’m gonna say after this, in the early 2000s, AI was still mainly in the hands of experts, but in the last few years it’s become common place for two reasons. Firstly, huge amounts of data being created every minute, in fact they’re saying in more than 90% of the world’s data has been generated in the past two years. And secondly, our computers are faster than than ever. They can make sense of sense of vast wealth of new information in seconds. And with that in mind, HubSpot is using artificial intelligence within it’s system to do certain things. So I’m gonna highlight three things. You will see in HubSpot, it now finds duplicate contacts. So in the contacts tool under actions, you can find duplicate contacts because it’s run over the data defined what could be potentially duplicated. Number two Craig.

– [Craig] Well you’ve actually gonna hear about loading data and matching. So importing data and how it’s just, it seems to know where the data is gonna end up.

– [Ian] Correct. It actually does a pretty good job, and then understanding what type of field it is, and so on. And number three is, importing scans and this is to do with email. So when emails are imported, it scans the list for potential deliverability problems. Now you might go but why, but it’s all about keeping it clean, right? And I’ve seen this when I’ve imported things in before, where it’ll automatically mark an address’ undeliverable or not gonna send the email to because it may be marked as spam for example. I’m like how did it know that? Anyway, it does it, so it’s available. Now there is one really interesting quote that you picked out.

– [Craig] Yeah, that’s right. And actually we should just mention all of what we’ve talked about here is coming from Ari’s blog post on HubSpot blog, it’s really good. He goes into this in a bunch more detail and a few more examples but he’s actually talking about personalization. By the way that’s the topic for our HubSpot user group tomorrow night. By the time you’ll have heard this we’ll have had the user group meeting, hope you’re there, hope you enjoyed it. But anyway personalization, he talks about the fact that when it comes to AI, it actually allows you to make decisions that are too broad for human minds to process. And so basically, AI helps you to scale personalization. I think that’s a really good way to think about it.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] And of course we know there’s other barriers in, especially marketing across the stack and I’m sure HubSpot’s got this in mind with just their advertising tools and all those kinds of things, so it’s really stunning, but it’s really just about optimizing and scaling decision making, to make smart decisions.

– [Ian] Now you pointed out a really good blog, and we’d encourage people to go have a look at this. If you go to this is marketing blog.

– [Craig] No thismarketingblogdoesnotexist.com. That’s a long url, but yeah, thismarketingblogdoesnotexist.com, check it out because that is a blog that is entirely written and actually built by artificial intelligence. So not only is all the content just generated automatically by artificial intelligence, but the authors and the authors photos, they’re not real people, they’re not real names, it’s all just made up. And it’s just a good example of how, yeah.

– [Ian] How it’s working.

– [Craig] The little mini robots and artificial intelligence can build all that stuff. Basically you have an army of robots at your disposal. I think this is what people don’t realize as marketers, and well in a lot of professions. Think of Google, just the Google section, just this army of robots just crawling the web, just doing all of this stuff at massive scale and as marketers, we have this at our fingertips to do. Let’s put those little robots to work and thanks HubSpot for implementing it in your product.

– [Ian] That’s right. All right, onto our HubSpot marketing feature of the Craig, and we’re gonna talk about Attribution Reports in HubSpot.

– [Craig] Yeah, and this is also based on a blog post. A good blog post I thought from HubSpot blog.

– [Ian] That’s right. And this is because we often get these questions from people that we talk to and we deal with on a daily basis and they go, what does this mean? Like what does it mean that this contact was assisted? What can I make sense out of this?

– [Craig] Yeah, that’s right. So Attribution Reports are really well, about providing attribution back to a point. So is it the blog post where people started? Is it the resource that they came from? Is it a refer ex cetera? Now, I’m actually gonna say two things, I’m gonna say one, it’s good, and two, it’s useless. Okay, so just lemme explain that, because Attribution Reports for starters, you need pro and above to access them. But really you need enterprise to get the full value out of it.

– [Ian] You do actually need data.

– [Craig] Yeah, and plus you need a lot of data, that’s exactly right. However, and one of the people might say, oh I don’t have enterprise, well is it worth paying enterprise to get these Attribution Reports. And I’m gonna say for most people, not it’s not. And I’ll tell you why, because when I analyze well we’ve both got enterprise portals but we’re not, I analyze data for sim, and we’ve got a lot data in some of our brands, we analyze it and the Attribution Reports often don’t give much more insight over just general reports. And I think this is something that people need to understand. For Attribution Reports to give you actionable insight, you need really clean data. So if the data is wrong, you know the referral source is wrong or you didn’t tag it properly, if it came from paid adds and all that kind of stuff. If it’s wrong, it’s not gonna give you some magical insight into attribution that you didn’t know before, in fact it’ll probably confound you and the other thing is that you almost need to be saying what’s the question I’m asking here, rather than, I think people often get a report and go ah, so tell me some insight, and really you’ve actually gotta be thinking about, well what’s the question that I wanna answered here? And that’s how you have to approach reporting in many ways to get any value. And we know this from Google analytics as well, which has had Attribution Reports, well for free since forever, does give you some insights, but then again it’s also about the data.

– [Ian] That’s right.

– [Craig] It’s in place.

– [Ian] And I think it’s also understanding the types of attributions that’s available to you. There’s time decay, there’s last touch, there’s first touch, there’s first and last touch, when I first saw this I was like what the. And so you gotta understand what you’re trying to actually get, or how it’s gonna affect the results you want to see, so.

– [Craig] Yeah. And I think you’re better, sometimes you’re better coming in with the question such as ah, is it really worthy doing x? Well let’s see what attribution highlights for us, because if you just ah I’m gonna pull up the Attribution Report and see what it magically shows you, it’s possibly not gonna show you anything else then a just say a general sources report would show you. And especially if data’s dirty or not particularly clean, possibly even more misleading. Anyway, good blog post around Attribution Reports if you wanna dive into it, if you do have an enterprise portal. You know the other thing I’ll say, you know when you analyze data, do you feel like the HubSpot reports is slow?

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] I know they gotta crunch a lot of data, but I’ll bet, you know what I’m predicting? Come at an inbound they’ll say, we’ve increased the reporting crunch time by 1000% because fighting for these reports.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] People aint got time for that sometimes.

– [Ian] So when you say waiting for the reports you’re talking about the visualization of the report.

– [Craig] Sorry the visualization, yeah.

– [Ian] Versus the data that we’re actually seeing.

– [Craig] Yeah it’s pretty good at collecting the data, but yeah, creating that visualization especially on those Attribution Reports, if you’ve got a big data set, takes a while.

– [Ian] Yes. All right Craig, onto our HubSpot sales feature of the week, and this came from talking to one of my customers, and they were like, how do I track a document if it’s in a email and someone forwards it to somebody else and I wanna know if that person read that document, how do I do that? All right, I’ve got just the tool for you, it’s called the document’s tool, and what this allows you to do, is actually keep a library of content that your entire team can use. What I love about it is, it’s a central location that you can store the contents of couple of clients for used things like, the brochures that they often send people, price lists, so price lists often get changed on a quarterly basis, so keeping this all in sync for sales is really important. And also when you’re using them in templates, you can call the documents, and they will automatically pull in the right documents for you. But what I wanted to share was this feature about being able to track. So you can, when you share it, you can say look, I wanna share it with this person with this particular email, and if they need to actually, if for example if they pass that on, or they share that with somebody else, there is an option to require an email address to view the document. So people have to stick their email in to view the document. That’s where this tracking can happen, now obviously anything can be gained like you know, so just be aware of this when using that feature, because as people get more savvy, they will decide not to do that.

– [Craig] Yeah we call this the test@test.com problem which is when everyone, when ever someone’s prompted to put an email address in to access something, it’s test@test.com, but look, that’s an indicator in itself. If someone doesn’t wanna put their email address in there, probably not high intent anyways.

– [Ian] That’s right.

– [Craig] Can be a qualifier or a disqualifier in some ways.

– [Ian] That’s right, and then the other thing I forgot to mention is that the reporting on the documents, understanding who’s opening, how many people have opened it, what time they’ve spent on each of the pages, and if you’re contact owner, that will get sent to you, as to which pages they spend the most time on, which I find really useful.

– [Craig] I think that’s a really key feature about it, that time and page, and as we’ve said before on the show, if you see someone open, flick, flick, flick, flick, pricing page leave quickly.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] You know that’s a bad sign. If they flick, zoom down to pricing page, linger there, ah yeah and then go back and start reading the rest, very good sign.

– [Ian] So there you have it. All right Craig, the HubSpot Gotcha of the week.

– [Craig] Just a reminder about styling Hubspot forms, I was embarrassed about this because I cloned a form for a page, and then I put it on a word press site.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] And the styling wasn’t working. I was like, what’s going on? I’ve embedded the same way, I’m calling the native styling from the site, but it’s not working, what’s going on? I’ve cloned the form, it should be working, right? So I contacted HubSpot support, they came back and very sweetly told me ah there’s an option on the options page, basically to make it an unstyled form so it works on the site, right? And I knew this because I’d actually told people this, ’cause they’d asked me about this problem I think a couple of months ago and I’d said ah that’s an option, just completely forgot about it. So, it’s one of those things you trick yourself ’cause you duplicate, you clone a form, you’re thinking I can carry over all the settings, but just a reminder that that unstyled form setting is on the options.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] Now I would like it if that was actually on the styling and preview form tab of the form, right? You’re going through the form, I’d like to go oh styling and preview, no. Don’t use HubSpot styling. I just wanna, it’d make sense if it’s there, right? I’m just saying that so that I don’t feel so dumb but anyway, if you’ve fallen into that trap as well.

– [Ian] It is an option Craig.

– [Craig] Remember that option, yes.

– [Ian] All right, marketing tip of the week Craig. And this marketing tip came about because I was helping a customer send out some emails, and it got flagged as having a high number of bounces. And there was this really lovely message in my portal saying, if you don’t resolve this you will be banned from your account.

– [Craig] Ah you got one of those as well. We got one of those the other day.

– [Ian] All right, I contacted HubSpot support, I’m like, so firstly I’m going to find out why this has happened.

– [Craig] Yeah.

– [Ian] I then created, from all the bounces I created a list of all the bounce contacts. So I could exclude them off any future sends.

– [Craig] Right.

– [Ian] As an interim solution. I then contacted HubSpot support to figure out whether this would be sufficient to do, to which the answer was, yes it would be, obviously it’s not a permanent solution, but it kinda gave me the option, actually what I ended up doing was, from that list was, assigning the contacts back to the owner as a task to actually go and find out what was wrong with it, or why it was wrong.

– [Craig] How many contacts we talking about?

– [Ian] There were probably about 20, 30 contacts per person in sales. So it wasn’t huge but in the whole list it was still like 100 contacts, right? So that was one, they to told me to load an unsubscribe list in there, which I said then, asked what happens when I need to send emails when once it’s been fixed? And they said, that would be rather hard, so I went, that’s not a good idea. But then they came up with this solution where you can actually verify emails, and it’s called NeverBounce, and it’s real time verification and email cleaning where you can actually load this list in bulk, and it’ll check to see that address is valid. So I think this is really a useful tool to probably use before you’re importing data in to actually verify and check that it is clean, and flag those issues prior to the load.

– [Craig] I had a similar experience, I was telling you about this the other day before. We pulled a whole bunch of contacts out of one portal and imported them into another portal. So it’s about 8000 contacts under one portal, imported into another portal. Now we only exported out the ones that hadn’t bounced, didn’t have any issues.

– [Ian] Yeah.

– [Craig] So they were fine and engaged, imported them in, and about 10% of the list bounced straight away. We’re actually still tryna work out why. So we’re actually going through this process with HubSpot support.

– [Ian] Okay.

– [Craig] What’s going on? So we actually were wondering if there was something right, because it’s in another portal maybe there’s a different IP Address rank or something that’s being sent from, or something weird. So, but what we’ll do, is we’ll use a tool like this. I think this is a good tip. We’ll upload them in today and just see what it gives us back, whether the things stay clean or not.

– [Ian] And it also does connect in with HubSpot if you do need to use it. All right, onto our insight of the week Craig, you got some Google My Business updates.

– [Craig] Yeah, I just wanted to mention this because yet again, Google My Business is so important for businesses.

– [Ian] It is.

– [Craig] And a reminder to people, set up your profile or claim it and make sure you keep it updated. It’s still free which is incredible, by the way, don’t hold your breath, surely they’re gonna be charging for premium features soon, I can’t believe it. You know how you use years ago we’re going ah one day HubSpot’s gonna get rid of the key word tool, and finally it came, we’re very sad about that. One day Google My Business is gonna start charging for their business profiles, like a premium tier and we’ll be really sad when that happens, but until that does, take advantage of it. Get your Google My Business profile up to date. Anyway, some of the new features they’re putting in, they’re gonna have short names, they’re gonna have other tools within it and the reason I wanted to raise it and it’s kind of insight of the week is because you know how Google had Google+ and that’s all died, right, and gone and everyone’s like ah they couldn’t do social.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] Google My Business is their social by stealth, I really think because now you have posts you have on your Google My Business profile, you can have videos, you have photos, you have events.

– [Ian] You have offers.

– [Craig] Offers, you can have contact us by text, they haven’t got like straight messaging real time there but messaging in a sense is there. It’s become their LinkedIn page and their Facebook page, company page.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] It’s Google My Business. So I call it their social by stealth, business social by stealth and I just, folks you’ve gotta get onto this, if you’re not doing it and not updating it.

– [Ian] That’s right and you know what? I saw a really interesting thing the other day that they’ve introduced is that if you, when you initially sign up, you can actually give a one time offer to the person that actually follows or signs up to your page which I thought was rather interesting so there’s another opportunity to entice people to actually follow your business.

– [Craig] Right, that’s interesting. Yeah well, the thing I said, they’ve added short names so at the moment you just have a short name, what do you do with it? Well not much but at some point there’s gonna be your @ short naming people and talking, it’s conversation going in, it’s you know.

– [Ian] So that’s right, it’s a opportunity, I would actually get on top of that.

– [Craig] Now is it time for a coffee, ah it’s a bit cold.

– [Ian] I know, it is Craig but let me share a solution with you. There is a mug called the Ember ceramic mug and it can prolong the enjoyment of your coffee and tea as it’s the world’s first temperature controlled mug.

– [Craig] But tell ’em the price son.

– [Ian] It’s a cool 130 dollars Craig.

– [Craig] That’s 130 Australian. And the travel mug is more expensive. So folks, check the, you’ve gotta see it because here’s the mental shift I went through. When I first saw it, I thought ah this is a joke, like they’ve got an app connected mug.

– [Ian] It even works with the Apple Watch Craig.

– [Craig] And I thought this is a joke, someone’s having a go right and then it’s available at the Apple store. We were laughing about this before but here’s the mental journey that you go on. You go ah this is a joke, someone’s having me on and then you go ah actually it’s not a joke and then you go 130 bucks, who in their right mind would pay 130 bucks for a mug and then you go, you know what, that mug could be kind of handy and then by the end your day your going oh it’s only 130 bucks to keep my coffee warmer. I haven’t bought one yet. I’m getting close. So listeners, check this out, would you buy a ceramic mug.

– [Ian] Well I mean this is interesting, I mean it’s a very stylish mug I have to admit.

– [Craig] It’s a beautiful sight, they’ve done really well.

– [Ian] Yes it’s beautifully designed. It has one hour battery life and it has a charging coaster that you can stick it on and it will stay in the temperature range of between 50 and 62.5 degrees Celsius and you know what, it just looks really nice.

– [Craig] It looks really nice and I was reading some of the reviews of this, people are saying it’s life changing. I’m not joking . They’re saying it’s life changing because instead of having to go over to the microwave and reheat their coffee or get another cup, they just have a nice hot cup of coffee or tea all morning and they’re reading the paper and all that and I was like well you know there’s worse things to spend money on I guess.

– [Ian] Correct. Well there you have it, that’s our product of the week Craig.

– [Craig] If any listener has one, tell us what you think.

– [Ian] Yeah that’s right, see if you’re in the US, it’s 79.95.

– [Craig] It’s a bargain.

– [Ian] And you can get it Starbucks and Apple store.

– [Craig] You should see the video, we put a link to the YouTube video, it’s like this, such an aspirational, the music and everything, it’s like it’s a mug. Since we’re all in marketing and sales, there’s a lot we can learn from this. So I encourage you to have a look.

– [Ian] All right Craig the resource of the week and this is a Facebook One-Sheeter guide from Jon Loomer.

– [Craig] Now we love Jon Loomer and this one is good as well but folks, check this out for the maximum number of CTA’s he’s managed to push into a blog post. He’s set a new record I reckon.

– [Ian] So why I’m reading and just take a note and I love how the CTA’s are prefaced by saying a message from Jon . So there you go, I mean.

– [Craig] There’s actually almost more CTA content in the post than actual content.

– [Ian] You know what’s interesting, it’s like he’s not giving up about testing new stuff, right, and that he can clearly see he’s testing different things and measuring what’s working.

– [Craig] Oh he’s the master, I love his stuff.

– [Ian] Yeah.

– [Craig] And I will happily put up with all those CTA’s ’cause his content is so good.

– [Ian] Correct, all right Craig, onto our quote of the week. And this is from a book that you have read and I’m listening to currently called Stealing Fire : How Silicon Valley, the Navy SEALs, and Maverick Scientists Are Revolutionizing the Way We Live and Work by Steven Kotler. So here it is. “The second is trickier, the person who knows “what to do next is the leader, “we’re entirely non-hierarchal in that way “but in a combat environment when split seconds “make all the difference, “there’s no time for second guessing. “When someone steps up to become the new leader, “everyone immediately automatically moves with him, “it’s the only way we win.”

– [Craig] I think that’s a really interesting quote that the person who knows what to do next is the leader.

– [Ian] That’s right and that’s what I wanted to highlight with this quote because it was fascinating. I mean there’s lots of examples in this book and I think we can learn a lot from just understanding how Navy SEALs operate and how they actually get into the flow of operating at that level that they do so think about in your business, in your team, what’s happening.

– [Craig] Well I think if you’re in a leadership position as opposed to just managerial by the way, managers and leaders are different beasts but leadership, yeah is really about knowing what to do or deciding what to do next and then leading the way. I find these books good like this is not a book you read to learn marketing tactics.

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] But it is a book you learn how to go right, this is the way people think and this is how the way the world works and this is how leadership is manifested in active leads so yeah, I love these kinds of things that always kind of expand your thinking.

– [Ian] And on a happy note, we have a few bonus things for the week. We would love you to leave us a simple star rating on Apple Podcasts or any other podcast app that you listen to us on. And until next time Craig.

– [Craig] Catch you later Ian. Hey there, thanks for listening to this episode of HubShots. For show notes and the latest HubSpot news and tips, please visit us at HubShots.com.

HubShots HubSpot Artificial Intelligence (AI), Attribution Reports, and a $130 ceramic mug

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