Category Archives for "General"

Episode 218 Thinking through Attribution. Again. And How HubSpot provides Attribution reporting

Episode 218: Thinking through Attribution. Again. And How HubSpot provides Attribution reporting

HubShots Episode 218: Thinking through Attribution. Again. And How HubSpot provides Attribution reporting

This episode we discuss:

  • Attribution – what is it, and how can we make it actionable
  • HubSpot’s Attribution reporting tools
  • Average Days to Close Sales report
  • Are virtual events worth attending?
  • Viral Post Title Generator
  • Is Apple creating their own Search Engine?
  • Australia versus Google and Facebook

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HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Recorded: Wednesday 09 September 2020 | Published: Friday 11 September 2020

Shot 1: Growth Thought of the Week

Thinking about Attribution

I’ve been diving deeper into attribution lately – aiming to get insights that are actionable (as opposed to just interesting).

Attribution is one of those fancy sounding words that gives you the impression it requires deep analytical skills, but in practice there’s a range of attribution paths you can do down.

Simple Attribution

Even the simplest things such as checking what devices your customers use can be considered attribution, for example: ‘we are attributing x% of our revenue to customers who use an iPhone to find our site’ would be a common insight from some ecommerce companies.

Attribution specialists would likely disagree with that meeting the definition of attribution, but hey, I’m more interested in driving revenue for our clients than I am in getting my definitions right…

Journey Attribution

Moving down the rabbit hole of attribution though, we start getting into the standard attribution models – things like first click, linear, and last click attribution. This is where we start to think across the buyer’s journey – considering not just one item about them, but their behaviour over a range of ‘touches’.

Activity Attribution

And then, further down the attribution path, we come to the deeper insights around content attribution, sales activity attribution and overall activity attribution. HubSpot provides useful tools for this, and we’ll dig into that further down in Shot 3.

Shot 2: Quick Shots of the Week

Here’s a few quick items of interest we noticed:

  • HubSpot has added an export option (in Settings > Account defaults) that allows you to export a log of all the logins to your portal by HubSpot staff. A good point to note, given the privacy scare I had with them recently regarding zoom calls being recorded without me knowing (see Shot 1 in episode 214).
  • On the HubSpot blog, a recent post (July) is on the topic of How to Write a Blog post. It’s a comprehensive post (with an 18 minute reading time guide, plus downloadable templates). Here’s the key: it doesn’t matter how ‘old’ or done-to-death a topic might be, chances are there’s someone new looking for it today – offering your own high-value, fresh perspective on it can still work. (Aside: I’d love to know the stats on how well that post ranks, and converts)
  • 3.96 billion people (that’s more than half of the world’s population) now use social media. Facebook is the leader (by a big margin), followed by YouTube and WhatsApp.

See Shot 12 down below, for our Big Shots of the Week (ie in-depth recommended reading).

Shot 3: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

HubSpot Attribution Reporting

We’ve covered HubSpot’s ever improving Attribution reporting previously in episodes 168 and 176.

This time we’re taking a walk through their Attribution reports again, given that their old reports have now been removed (as we discussed with some alarm a few weeks ago, and discussed on the show in Shot 4 of 215).

Good data = useful attribution

First up we need to understand that attribution is only as useful as the data that is analysed.

Which means ensuring as many touchpoints as possible are included:

  • Make sure any traffic to the site is tagged (ie social traffic, paid ads, emails, etc)
  • Simple things like email signature links are often missed

Davis has a good post on the HubSpot blog covering these. He not only outlines the new attribution report, but also key items to have in place in order for attribution reporting to be useful:

As with every report, data analysis should link to a specific goal. With contact create attribution, the goal is to identify what worked in the past with respect to creating new contacts and assigning credit for those contacts along your prospect’s journey. Knowing what worked previously, allows you to optimize or re-create those marketing efforts to generate more contacts.”

Diving into the Reports

The HubSpot KB has a good overview (similar to Davis’ post) of setting up Attribution reports.

Play with the different Data Source Dimension options:

hubspot example attribution data

Interaction Source is a good one to start with.

Here’s an example of one of our clients – notice how social is a key driver of leads:

hubspot example attribution report

But let’s dig into the paid social interaction type, from the table underneath:

hubspot example attribution social

What is the (No value) line item?

At first we thought it was due to links not being tagged correctly, but after checking further it seems to be from Facebook traffic that is getting stripped of its parameters – possibly on iPhones that have the privacy settings in place.

Notice also how similar all the attribution models are. Which tends to indicate that many of the contacts converted very early (often on their first visit).

Key takeaway: Make a start. Use it to highlight gaps, and then fix your tracking.

We’ll dive into Attribution reports in further detail in upcoming episodes.

Real WorldExamples Needed

A final comment though regarding the HubSpot blog and KB articles – great as they are for explaining how to set up reports, the big value item they are missing is real world examples. There’s no examples of digging into an attribution report and gaining insights.

Shot 4: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Average Days to Close report

Another one to do with reporting and understanding the average days to close for deals.  This can give you insight into what is potentially taking longer or if certain times of the year are quicker to close deals.

Sales Team Productivity   HubSpot 1

There is more information here.

Shot 5: HubSpot Extra of the Week

Comments on Workflow Actions

You can now add comments on workflow actions:

hubspot workflow comments on actions

The example above is just a trivial test – you wouldn’t usually add comments like this.

This feature is going to be great for going back through and ‘documenting’ some of your old, complex workflows.

Shot 6: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

If you have one conversation inbox when you add users they end up in the inbox as users and if you for example set up your live chat to be live when only available it can seem like it is not working!

Settings 21

So you need to make sure you Manage your users in your inbox!

Shot 7: Marketing Tip of the Week

We’ve decided to move this week’s marketing tip to next week – we have too much in the show already!

Tune in next week when we’ll dig into LinkedIn Sponsored InMail tips.

Shot 8: Insight of the Week

Are Virtual Events worth attending?

Craig and Ian debate the value of online events.

Craig is largely unimpressed with virtual events and feels that there is much higher value in paid courses delivered by experts. And even in free courses such as in HubSpot Academy.

Ian has a different perspective and covers his experience attending the Grow With Video Live conference.

Here is the portal that gives you a look inside some of the items!

Grow With Video Live 2020

Shot 9: Lol of the Week

Viral Post Title Generator

This generator is fun – it’s a joke… but is it?

viral post title generator

Shot 10: Resource of the Week

Dishonest Marketing examples

Loving this Twitter account (from the makers of FOMO) that exposes bogus marketing – here’s a beauty:

bogus viewers

They have a Chrome extension as well.

We ran it on the HubShots site and it found 11 instances of hyperbole:

hubshots honesty checker

Words such as: perfect, most popular – plus it doesn’t like exclamation marks!

Shot 11: Quote of the Week

“And if you say you’re not creative, look at how much you’re missing out on just because you’ve told yourself that. I think creativity is one of the greatest gifts that we’re born with that some people don’t cultivate, that they don’t realize it could be applied to literally everything in their lives.”

― Timothy Ferriss, Tools of Titans: The Tactics, Routines, and Habits of Billionaires, Icons, and World-Class Performers

Shot 12: Big Shots of the Week

Apple and Search Engines

There’s been rumours of Apple entering the search engine space for years. Recently the rumours have started up again (via Coywolf). Aaron Wall (SEOBook) details why this is such an important topic to follow.

Australia versus Google (and Facebook)

You may have seen the headlines about Australia’s ACCC suggesting legislation that would require Google (and Facebook) to pay media organisations for including their news on the Google Search results. Facebook has largely stayed quiet, but Google has been popping up notifications highlighting their stance. The whole ACCC approach is a debacle, but you wouldn’t know that if you read the coverage on the main Aussie news sites (who, of course, stand to benefit from it). Ben Thompson (Stratechery) has the best analysis of the topic that I’ve read.

How to Go Live on Instagram

Useful, straightforward overview of how to use Instagram Live by Sprout Social. Ian is always trying to get me to do more Insta and YouTube live stuff, but I keep resisting… I’ve gotta #gotheextra 😂

Ecommerce growth relies a lot on Facebook advertising

No matter your view of Facebook, there’s no denying how important the platform is for ecommerce advertisers. Digiday outlines the trends.

Shot 13: Follow Us on the Socials

Connect with HubShots here:

Connect with Ian Jacob on LinkedIn and Craig Bailey on LinkedIn

HubShots is produced by Christopher Mottram from Podcastily.

Please share this with colleagues – it helps us improve and reach more marketers.

Episode 218 Thinking through Attribution. Again. And How HubSpot provides Attribution reporting

Episode 183: HubSpot ads reports on Dashboards, HubSpot template gotcha, CCPA

Episode 183: HubSpot ads reports on Dashboards, HubSpot template gotcha, CCPA

Welcome to HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

This episode we chat about adding ad reports on HubSpot dashboards, avoiding template gotchas, and whether you need to prepare for CCPA.

Listen to the episode here:

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

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Recorded: 14 November 2019 | Published: 13 December 2019

Shot 1: Growth Thought of the Week

Connect with us on LinkedIn

Connect with Ian on LinkedIn here:

Connect with Craig on LinkedIn here:

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

HubSpot Enterprise Workflows limit

HubSpot has increased the number of workflows in Enterprise portals from 500 to 1000.

Would love to know how many portals were hitting the 500 workflow limit. And how many does HubSpot itself have? Would love to know.

Add HubSpot Ads reports to Dashboards

There are a bunch of Ads related reports you can add to your dashboard:

Reports library

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week


Why? Save time writing emails and taking notes

You can create shortcuts to your most common responses in emails and notes logged in HubSpot CRM. Quickly send emails and log notes without having to type the same thing over and over!  This also includes have personalisation in your snippets.

Users often forget it is available in your email too!

Inbox  790    ian jacob searchandbefound com au   Search   Be Found Mail

Shot 4: HubSpot Extra of the Week

CCPA overview by Kyle on HubSpot Academy:


CCPA = California Consumer Privacy Act:

Shot 5: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

PieSync Login

PieSync login process is infuriating – sends you a verification code to your email every time you need to login. We have abandoned using PieSync due to this.

Adding Rich Text Modules to Templates

Adding Rich Text modules to templates – need to set the default text to be blank, otherwise, you’ll suddenly start seeing this kind of text appear on pages that use the template:

hubspot rich text

Either clear it out altogether or set it to something that will be relevant on the page eg on a Thank you page:

hubspot heading

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

Resending emails to get a better open rate.  So what we did was create an active list:

Did not open JITT Special  retail    Lists

We then cloned the email and changed the Subject and sent it a few days later.  You will see we managed to get an additional 22%-26% open rate.

Reports dashboard 13Shot 6: Insight of the Week

Being Better Versions of Ourselves (as Marketers):

Incremental improvement => compounds

Shot 7: Podcast of the Week

Marketing from the trenches

Good episode chatting about what’s working on Facebook these days:

From Will Wang at Growth Labz:

Shot 8: Resource of the Week

Basecamp have released a free Personal version:

Shot 9: Quote of the Week

“Coming together is a beginning, staying together is progress, and working together is success.”

– Henry Ford

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week

HTTP status codes:

SEObook: Brands versus Ads:

Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

Episode 183 HubSpot ads reports on Dashboards, HubSpot template gotcha CCPA.jpg

– [Ian] Hi everyone, welcome to HubShots episode 183. In this episode we chat about adding ad reports on HubShots dashboards, avoiding template gotchas, and whether you need to prepare for CCPA. You’re listening to HubShots the podcast for marketing majors and sales professionals who are using HubSpot hosted by myself, Ian Jacob, from search and be found, and Craig Bailey from Xen Systems. How are you Craig?

– [Craig] I’m really good, how are you Ian?

– [Ian] Excellent.

– [Craig] You’ve had a long day haven’t you?

– [Ian] It feels like that.

– [Craig] Yeah we need to go and get dinner after this, don’t we?

– [Ian] That’s correct. Well Craig onto our growth thought of the week.

– [Craig] You know I just wanted to say, I’m trying to get to use LinkedIn more.

– [Ian] So am I actually.

– [Craig] Not necessarily to sell or even for mark, ’cause we’ve done paid marketing through LinkedIn but I’m just trying to get connections with people. I think that’s going to be my network–

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] For connecting with people because as you know I’m not on Facebook, I avoid Instagram, I just lurk on Twitter, I kinda lurk on LinkedIn. I’m actually gonna try and use it to connect with people, coming out of my shell a bit so with that in mind, I’ve put both our personal LinkedIn profiles, not the HubShots one, but our personal LinkedIn profiles in shot on show notes so– [Ian] And yeah if you’re connecting tell us your listeners of the show.

– [Craig] Yeah, connect with us, ’cause I would like, I get so many connections, which I kinda accept a lot of them with random people just connecting and they just wanna sell me stuff–

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] I’d much rather connect with our listeners so that if they’ve got a question you know just ask a question, I’d love to be helping people on LinkedIn rather than kind of batting away people trying to sell me stuff that is not a fit at all.

– [Ian] That’s right, I agree with you Craig. So yes listeners connect with us, we’d love to hear from you guys. Alright Craig onto marketing feature of the week, hot off the press–

– [Craig] Well before we get to your nice find with the ads reports, this announcement that HubSpots increased the number of work flows you can have in an enterprise portal from 500 to a thousand. First of all I didn’t know there was a limit so–

– [Ian] Well you know what, I didn’t know there was a limit until I saw that message in my portal.

– [Craig] I wondered, well I’m assuming the limit was there and they have increased it because people have been hitting their limit and so they’re probably going, “Oh, we need to increase this,” I would love to know how many portals are hitting the limit, I’d love to know the telemetry on this. Obviously HubSpot has all of this, like I’d love to see some of those portals if someone needs 600, 700, work flows, like I was looking at our portal and I think ours is pretty complex around a bunch of businesses out of it.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] That you know my wife–

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] And my own businesses, and I was like well we’ve got about 200 work flows in our portal and we’re pretty complex, pretty sophisticated. I’d love to see some of these big ones that need more than 500. I’d love to see them. Not only the breakdown but how they use–

– [Ian] How complex they are.

– [Craig] Yes. Because some of the portals we go into with our bigger clients, when we take up the portals, they’re like massively complex work flows always branching, all kinds of things going on, like how does someone maintain this? And that’s something we look at with our, we’ve got a HubSpot health check audit service that we do, I’d love to get a sense of some of those big ones. I would love to know HubSpots work flows, you know I’d almost take a job at HubSpot just so that I could peek into their work flows and get a sense of how, ’cause they’ve got, not only would they have so many across all their regions but they have had them for years.

– [Ian] That’s right.

– [Craig] I would like to go in chronological order and go back to some of their work flows that they first created years ago, right at the start, and just see how that’s changed. I think that would be fascinating to see the evolution of how they’ve used work flows.

– [Ian] Yeah, absolutely right, Craig.

– [Craig] Anyway, that was just the first little feature, the increase, but you found–

– [Ian] That’s right and I was doing this because I had been doing a lot of paid advertising for customers lately and I was thinking, well they’re using, and actually they’re on marketing status so I went “oh, I wonder what reports there are” because I could never find any reports like every time someone asked you about ads you’d have to go to the ads tool. Anyway I found some reports, I’m like, “oh here we go.” Now mind you, four out of the six reports, actually all the reports had to do with social, social ads, the other two actually talk about ad campaigns with Casper Click and Casper Contact and that runs across Google Ads, LinkedIn, and Facebook Ads, and you’ll see the data in a table but the four that I wanna highlight is they have four reports which is ad impression by social network, ad clicks by social networks, ads attributed contacts by social network, and ads attributed customers by social network, and you know what? I put them on the dashboard to show them and I think it’s actually useful especially if you’re running lots of social ads.

– [Craig] I think this is really good and I’d love to know if this has been here for awhile, we should ask, we should ask George Bay Thomas.

– [Ian] We find these things and then we check with other people and go “oh yeah that’s been there for ages,” I can’t remember that one thing I found I was so excited I was like– we put it in the HubSpot WhatsApp thread and Charles said, no, no I’ve had that for months. I was like, aw I just must’ve missed it, there’s so many good things, that we miss it, but this does ring a bell, remember when they were moving it, they were changing up the social reports?

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] They were moving some of the stuff out of the social tour and then they were just making some reports I think they added some, they also, um, what’s the word when they get rid of stuff?

– [Ian] Grandfather?

– [Craig] Grandfather–

– [Ian] Oh no.

– [Craig] Someone, no.

– [Ian] Sunset?

– [Craig] Sunset, yeah, sunset, just when they got rid of them so I wonder if that was around the same time–

– [Ian] Quite possibly.

– [Craig] Ad ones in yeah.

– [Ian] ‘Cause I been looking for ad stuff in the reports, I should really call these widgets ’cause they know reports.

– [Craig] I know I always have to catch myself there, I think of a report as a solid full page thing.

– [Ian] Exactly. So, anyway, regardless I think this is valuable. So, if you are using HubSpot and you are running social ads, I would go and add this to your dashboard.

– [Craig] We should just call it in the show, “report widgets”–

– [Ian] “Report widgets.”

– [Craig] Add these “report widgets” to your dashboard. I think that makes much more sense.

– [Ian] Let’s go into the HubSpot sales pitch of the week, Craig. And I wanted to highlight snippets, and we’ve done this a few times.

– [Craig] Snippets are so good with– What do we love? Lead forms. They know how to, called Popup forms–

– [Ian] Correct, exactly.

– [Craig] Snippets, is like our next current favorite.

– [Ian] Absolutely, why would I highlight these, been training a few customers this week, and one of the features that always stands out, and people are like “Wow! Can we do that? Can we– Can we use it this way?” And I’m like, “Yes, you can.” So the whole theme is you want to save time, right? Who knows, even maybe standardize your responses for certain things across the team, so snippets are available to everyone. And it’s really about creating shortcuts so, one of the examples I’m given you before is that you can use a snippet in a task, for example. So one of the sales team was sending, uh, need to send a task to someone that counts, really create an account for this customer. They have to give them their ABN and give them a couple other details, which uh, they can collect in HubSpot. I said, “Well, how do you do that?” So then they’ve got to go to ABRR, cut and paste the ABN, then find the other details.

– [Craig] I remember this one, yeah.

– [Ian] I said, “Why don’t I just create a snippet for you, where you can put a task to that person in accounts, and you just ‘go can you please create account for blah, here it is.” And it will preview the ABN, it will preview all of these, and I was like, “Yeah, let’s do that.” And so that’s a really perfect example of how to use a snippet really well, when you’re using a system. Now, the other thing to note here is, Someone said, “Oh, can I use that in my email?” Most of our clients use Google mail, so it is there, it’s a bit hidden, and so I put a screenshot in the notes, because people seem to document sequences and a few other things, but they don’t realize snippets is hiding in this more menu, and it can be used. So, it’s a great place to utilize it. And think about ways, that you can help your team respond quicker, and bring consistency to your business.

– [Craig] I really like it, I think we should add a new shot next week called, “Reminder of the week,” which is just, one is Popup Forms, well, two use snippets, wherever you can.

– [Ian] And use LEAD.DAT–

– [Craig] And LEAD.DATs.

– [Craig] Well now we’ve got three things.

– [Ian] That was the bonus tip, Craig.

– [Craig] Bonus tip, right there.

– [Ian] Alright so, this is the HubSpot extra of the week, Craig, and we’re going to talk about CCPA. And there’s a good overview video from Kyle.

– [Craig] Yes, thank you Kyle.

– [Ian] Now, Craig. For those of us who don’t know what CCPA is, would you like to elaborate?

– [Craig] Yes, so very quickly I’ll summarize it, and I think we talked about this in a show halfway through the year, word that it was coming. So, if you think of– everyone knows JDPR, which was, I’ll just call it the privacy apocalypse thing that had to be added, uh, very European focused. CCPA is the California Consumer Privacy Act, and you’ll probably see it referred to as JDPA for the US. Now, I’ll say the US, because it only applies to California although it may, other states may adopt it. But, I think a number of companies are going to say “Look, we’re going to support CCPA all across America– The America’s,” so it’s kind of the American version of the JDPR, however, it’s a lot less stringent. And so this overview by Kyle, it’s a seven minute video, it just walks you through, and of course watching it 1.5 or 2x, like you should watch all videos and listen to all podcasts– By the way, we had someone leave us a comment the other day

– [Ian] We did!

– [Craig] “By the way, I listened to your podcast 1x speed!” I’m like, what? Who is this person? Who is this anon? I don’t know. Then you said I think your wife listens to that one.

– [Ian] She does.

– [Craig] She likes to absorb, yeah, anyway I digress, you can watch this in four minutes is what I’m saying. Kyle’s overview of CCPA is worth doing, I’ve included a slide from his video about it, ’cause it doesn’t apply to everyone, like JDPR did apply to everyone, I was very–

– [Ian] It does.

– [Craig] It does apply to everyone, it’s not like you kind of was so small that it didn’t apply. CCPA is a bit more realistic, I would say, in terms of the businesses that have to be a certain size, revenue sizes, certain number of database sizes. And so, I’m not going to– well, I’ve got a slide in the show notes, I don’t know if I want to mention them ’cause they may change, but I think they are a guide, but to give you a sense, it’s like a multi-million dollars, like a twenty-five million dollar revenue companies this applies to, so if you’re a small business, you don’t necessarily have to panic like he, kind of had to.

– [Ian] You know, one thing that I find interesting on this slide, about who CCPA applies to, was it says derived more than fifty percent of annual revenue from selling consumers personal information!

– [Craig] Right, and Kyle makes a good comment about that, he says, “Oh, just don’t do that.”

– [Ian] So, that helps you out. But you know, there are information brokers, like that’s a big business, and– Yeah, absolutely, Craig.

– [Craig] And did you listen to this week’s episode of Pivot? The Scott Galloway and Kara Swisher podcast.

– [Ian] I did listen to one.

– [Craig] When I talked about how data– people are selling data for uni enrollments in order to match people, whether they qualify–

– [Ian] Really?

– [Craig] It’s just shocking what’s going on.

– [Ian] Wow.

– [Craig] In terms of Unis, you know, targeting people who they will let enroll and all this kind of thing so, data selling and data usage is such a power business, I’m not saying that’s a good thing, in fact, I think that’s a bad thing in many ways, but it’s just so, the norm now. That criteria on CCPA is going to apply to a lot of companies.

– [Ian] Alright, Craig. Onto HubSpot Gotcha of the week. Now this is, uh, let me just say, a new acquisition HubSpot, PieSync.

– [Craig] We mentioned it in passing last episode about HubSpot acquiring PieSync, which is an integration tool so think of it as a PR, but contact-centric. I mean, I think it fits very well with Hubspot. It’s integrating with other platforms– Did you know HubSpots a platform company?

– [Ian] I did, Craig.

– [Craig] Wow, how did– How did I miss that? No, I didn’t. A bit of an inject, sorry dismiss it. Anyway, PieSync is this integration tool, which I thought great, because…

– [Ian] Yeah, which I’ve also tried, in the past and I’m thinking about trying again.

– [Craig] Now the thing that infuriates me about it, is the login process. Have you tried this lately?

– [Ian] I haven’t tried it lately, Craig, and I don’t recall it doing what it does now when I tried it a few months ago.

– [Craig] I’ll just recap the user experience for you, so you sign up, whenever you log in, you put your email address in next, then it emails you a code, which you have to go to email, find the code, and either click or put in the code back in the PieSync log in to log in.

– [Ian] So there’s no password?

– [Craig] There’s no password.

– [Ian] Right.

– [Craig] Now there are other options, you can log in with LinkedIn or Google, which we don’t want to do. It’s infuriating. Anyway, this is such a hurdle, I can’t– Anyway, I’ve been backwards and forth complaining with their support and their sites for security and you know their other option, and it’s just like, this is so ridiculous. It’s such a bad experience. Especially for agencies and for clients, right? So, we’ll say to a client, “I set up the PieSync account,” Well, actually, we’re not going to say that. ‘Cause we’re just not going to use PieSync for this, this single reason, but normally at Zapier, We’ll say, “Oh yeah, set up the Zapier account, just send us the logs in, we’ll set up your Zapiers for you, right?” So can you imagine, they send us that and they’re like, “Every time we want to log in, you’re going to get an email with a code–

– [Both] Can forward the code for us

– [Craig] So that we can log in with it, that’s just infuriating. That’s just so unworkable. Surely, just use 2-factor authentication or some other means, but we as an agency, we store our clients passwords, we use last password, we’ve got a very strong process around it, and most staff don’t have access to all the passwords, it’s just shared on the, you know, so we’re very careful– that’s the way we work it for the clients. This seems like such a bad process.

– [Ian] Before we proceed, tell me the reason you do not log in using, say Facebook or Google, if that’s available.

– [Craig] So, well in PieSync’s case, when you log in with that account, actually the Zapier– Not the Zapier, whatever the connection–

– [Ian] The syncing.

– [Craig] Actually to that log in, so even though you have other team members, they don’t see the shared, um connections to that account. Right, we and would never want to log in with LinkedIn, ’cause then that’s my LinkedIn log in, I want to share that with the team.

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] And clients want to share these kinds of things with us, so username, password–

– [Ian] Unless it supports multiple log ins.

– [Craig] Right, and well, a number of tools don’t. So Zapier doesn’t. We have one, you know, normally the client gives us–

– [Ian] Access.

– [Craig] Now, of course, if a tool does give access and many other tools do, whether we can just share permissions, of course, we would use that. But yeah, it’s just, I just don’t understand why they’ve gone down this path, they’ve got a whole knowledge base article, so I’ve totally hijacked this, and think, I’m so infuriated by this.

– [Ian] I can tell, Craig.

– [Craig] And it’s just like this is– I just thought it was such a great tool that would answer a lot of the problems that we’ve got with syncing for clients, and we’re just not going to use it. And all my team agree, it’s just this is unusable. I just don’t get it. Anyway–

– [Ian] Well, that’s it– I mean, that’s interesting. Now that you’ve explained it, it actually makes more sense to me so, it’s a good point.

– [Craig] So look, I hope the HubSpot acquisition cautions this ridiculous process, Hubspot should–

– [Craig] You realize, this is an agency tool, it’s just not going to work, thanks just get rid of that malake.

– [Ian] Alright, I think which ticks modules on the templates, Craig, now here’s a gotcha for you. As to why you need to, just set them up correctly.

– [Craig] Alright, so. Got called out by this, this is such a facepalm. We’ve got thank you pages and download pages, and I actually sent one of our offerings to Daniel Burchi. I said– Hi Daniel, by the way, um, if you’re– and I said, I’ve got this new service offering and I’d be interested in feedback. You know, what do you think of it? He sent a ton of great feedback, thanks so much. So, but, do you realize that on your thank you page, you sign up to inquire about it, there’s a big chunk of text that says-

– [Ian] Tell the readers something about–

– [Craig] Yeah, you know that default text, and it’s like aw, no. Facepalm! So what’s happened is, we’ve had this template, you know in place, and then someone is needed to add a bit more content to the thank you page for specific circumstance. So, go into the template or just pop in a rich text module there, no worries, but it’s, of course it’s got all the default text. Of course, every page based on their template suddenly sprouting this “something about”, it’s like oh no! Anyway, so that’s the gotcha. Not a HubSpot product problem, a user said “I found the problem! It’s between the chair and the keyboard. I found the problem!” Anyway, to overcome the gotcha fix, whenever you’re putting any text based modules on a template, just clean out the text, or set it to very default words that wouldn’t matter if they appeared.

– [Ian] Alright, Craig. My market tip of the week, and I want to highlight this, about resending emails to get a bit open rate, and I’ve given an example here, it’s just a costumer we’ve moved onto HubSpot, and I was telling, and they had open rates of about 25-30% thinking ah, I think we could do better than this. Anyway, we were sending out some campaigns, there’s got to be a bit of segmentation and so on, but essentially, what we did was we were able to really easily, and if you don’t know this, you should be using this, in HubSpot is create an active listed HubSpot where you can use the criteria of someone received the particular market email, but did not open it and create that list, then what we did was we cloned the email that we originally sent, we changed the subject slightly, and we then resent that to this new list in essence and what we got was, so the first email said, and I’ll just pick one, here we go, we got a 36% open rate, right?

– [Craig] Which is pretty good.

– [Ian] Yep, and I thought hey I can do better than this, and then I resent it about three days later with a slightly different subject to the unopened list, so I got another almost 22% That little action, has driven so much more sales and engagement it’s been amazing, so I just wanted to highlight this because, people are probably not doing this and it’s a really good way to get in front of people because sometimes people will see things or see your emails and they might not actually look at it. Whereas, if you sent it a few days later, they might actually have time to look at it because I know for a fact, like once my email inbox has gone– passed like a couple of days, like, I don’t go back to look at anything, so I know like Gmail now resurfaces things like after three or five days, says oh like do you want to respond to these or should you respond to this because it’s using the smarts behind the system. So it’s good, like if you often forget to reply to something or tend to something, it will highlight that. It’s a really good way in your email marketing to actually get in front of people and get them engaged with your content.

– [Craig] This is really good, and I agree with you. ‘Cause people’s behavior is like, aw look, I just didn’t have time there, so it just flew by and so I didn’t, it’ll end up getting put in some folder anyway, and I just didn’t have time to check my subfolders and do all those things. And I think this is a much better process than initially putting time into AB testing, you know how people will say, “Oh we got to AB test subject clients, oh we got to AB test when we send” the things like that, I feel most sure with a large enough number of recipients, you can probably statistically get some confidence in the best time of the best subject line, but part of me just thinks, well, no. Everyone’s different, and something was happening that day, they just didn’t get to open it. So resend it, and so they get it another time, and maybe it’s a different subject line, but chances are it’s not because the subject line changed that they opened it, it’s the fact that you sent it at a different time, and that time they just did have time to open it. So– I guess my point is, do these resends rather sweating, you know the subject line, um so much as well because I think the numbers speak for themselves. Like, in fact, don’t change the subject line when you resend it, and you still get this big open rate from people who didn’t open it the first time. So it kind of proves that it wasn’t the subject line that was the problem, it was just they happened to be doing, people have lives, who knew?

– [Ian] Yeah, and another thing I do try is if um, say maybe, we do a second time and we then try a third time, we so again, create another list to offer that second email of the people who received it but didn’t open it. My third attempt is actually sending out plain text email to that unopened list, and then getting a further open rate.

– [Craig] Alright, so what do you think is the benefit of plain text?

– [Ian] I just find sometimes it gets through so it might not be marked as marketing–

– [Craig] Oh, really?

– [Ian] So, really deliver abilities changes.

– [Craig] Okay, I’d like to see some stats around that because–

– [Ian] Let’s test and measure that, Craig.

– [Craig] Yeah, we’ll test and measure that. So, you’d have to do two different emails. One normal, and one plain text. Same subject lines, sent at the same times, to a large enough size to check, yeah, I’d love to see that.

– [Ian] Alright, I did want to want to highlight one other thing, is um, one of our favorite email newsletters, Morning Brew. Which, I read this morning, and this is something I’d talk about last time, they start off the email by saying, “Good morning,” you know, “We hope you are staying warm during this icy weather,” because you know, it’s obviously getting icy in the US, sometimes email spam filters leave newsletters out in cold, right? A+ transition. Uh, “to make sure the brew is heating your inboxes everyday, please make sure you move us to your primary inbox if you use Gmail, add us to your VIP list if you use apple mail, add us to your favorites if you use outlook, or some combination of the above, if you use anything else. Thanks.” This clearly demonstrates to me that people are being affected as email programs start to funnel, and decipher what’s going on, the fact that one of our favorite newsletters that we read everyday is saying this would indicate to me that something is changing.

– [Craig] I think whenever I read those things, I’m kind of like, I just get a bit disappointed because Morning Brew, I think they’ve got more than a million people on their daily email list, so very popular, very eager, audience. And even they’re having problems with it, so it makes me kind of think like oh. How can we possibly expect to, and so yeah, if they’re saying “move to inbox,” well, I guess we could ask people to do that, but it it just highlights it’s a problem. People are busy, too many things.

– [Ian] That’s right. Alright, Craig, inside of the week, being a better version of ourselves.

– [Craig] Oh, look I read a blog post about that which I’ve uh linked to, I just wanted to mention this, it came up in conversation, I often say to the clients, when we’re kind of doing coaching, marketing coaching, two things; one, people want to be better versions of themselves, that’s why they buy. They buy something because they want to be a better version of themselves. But, likewise, we want to be better marketers. And so, part of my job, I feel as you’re paying me to do marketing, coach, and train you, is to make you a better version of yourself as a marketer. Just as I have a coach for our business, and I want to be a better version of myself as a business owner, Et cetera, et cetera, so you get the idea. And here’s the inside around it, being a better version of yourself is an incremental process. So as marketers, it’s about incremental improvement. So everyday, well, not everyday, but, regularly, you should be trying to do a little piece of your job a little bit better. And the reason I’m saying this to people is because they get swayed by these rockstars, you know the rockstar Ninja marketer, that we’re seeing so much out there, and it’s just rubbish most of the time, but even if we look at some– Say Gary Vaynerchuk, and you see his big impact, and you’re kind of like, “Ah, we’ve got to be making a big impact,” and it’s like, no, just continue incremental improvement as a marketer is all you need to do. Because that compounds, and you’ll get better and better over time, it just compounds making you a better- to be a better version of yourself as a marketer, that’s what you should strive for. Compare yourself to yourself yesterday, not to Gary Vaynerchuk, or whoever.

– [Ian] Well said, Craig. Alright, podcast of the week, Craig: Marketing From The Trenches.

– [Craig] Shout out to our mate, Will Wang from Growth Labz and his podcast. I was listening to him this morning, he was reviewing a guy on Facebook, yeah. That’s a good takeaways.

– [Ian] Encourage you guys to listen to that. Alright, and we go to resource of the week. Basecamp released a free, personal version.

– [Craig] Have you ever used Basecamp?

– [Ian] I did, back in the day.

– [Craig] Yeah, I did back in the day. We don’t use it for our agency, but I did love it as a user experience.

– [Ian] I am actually using it for a client now, because they use it with somebody else, so.

– [Craig] Well, it’s a really good tool. I liked it, I liked the experience. Well, the reason it is resource of the week is they’ve just announced a premium tier, well it’s not even premium, it’s free.

– [Ian] It’s free for freelancers.

– [Craig] Well, you get three projects.

– [Ian] You get three projects, there you go.

– [Craig] Anyone can use it, three projects, and they actually did try– One of the co-founders, he actually, on Twitter, because I follow him on Twitter, is just basically saying, “You know, we’re just giving this a go. We might lose out, it might not work. You know, we’re not a huge VC backed thing with tons of cash to, you know, burn our way to that. We’re going to give it a go and see if it works, we hope people like the experience and then in their companies, upgrade to use a paid version.” This is what we’re doing, right? So try it out, because you know, I really like what they stand for, and I really like the product, um, I think they are a bit of an outlier in success.

– [Ian] They are.

– [Craig] So a lot of people are like, “Oh, I just want to adopt the Basecamp way.” I’ve read their books and I love their books. But, I’m just like, you know, I think you’re an outlier, this doesn’t work for everyone. You’re the exception to row, and good on you guys because you’re always really smart. But yeah, it’s almost like survivor. Survivor bias, but yeah, great tool.

– [Ian] And now onto our quote of the week, Craig. From Henry Ford, “Coming together is a beginning, staying together is progress, and working together is success.” There you have it.

– [Craig] I, I can’t say anything. I can’t add to that. That’s excellent.

– [Ian] Well, you know what, after our week, so for those of you who didn’t know, we’ve had some pretty bad fires in Australia, uh, bush fires, and there have been lots of great volunteer firefighters fighting bush fires and you know, you see people come together for more sense of communities–

– [Craig] Yeah, shed purpose.

– [Ian] Shed purpose, so. Yeah, thank you to our fireys out there.

– [Craig] Amazing job, yeah. Just wonderful.

– [Ian] Well, Craig, there are some other things to share, we’d love you to leave us a review, on our podcast.

– [Craig] Connect with us on LinkedIn, too.

– [Ian] Yes, connect with us on LinkedIn, that would be fantastic. And until the next episode!

– [Craig] Catch you later, Ian!

– [Ian] See you, Craig!

– [Craig] And remember to use snippets!

– [Ian] Yes, that’s right!

– [Craig] Hey there, thanks for listening to this episode of HubShots. For shownotes, and the latest news and tips, please visit us at

1 Episode 182

Episode 182: Landing Pages in HubSpot Starter

Welcome to HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

This episode we chat about HubSpot’s Landing Page options in HubSpot Starter

Listen to the episode here:

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

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Recorded: 05 November 2019 | Published: 13 December 2019

Shot 1: Growth Thought of the Week

TL;DW => Too long, didn’t watch

HubSpot and Canva

HubSpot and PieSync

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

Landing pages in HubSpot Starter

hubspot starter has landing pages


The things I really like are:

  • very simple to use (similar user experience to their Drag and Drop email builder)
  • good (although small) set of initial templates to use
  • adding domain details is easy
  • landing pages are SSL enabled
  • you can just use the temp HubSpot domain to publish your landing pages (note, by default it won’t force to https, so make sure you enable this in Settings – see screenshot below)
  • reports are included (ie the simple overview of the page analytics)
  • simple checkbox for adding Google Analytics (and bizarrely, AdRoll – likely a legacy carryover)
  • the Cookies setting (part of Settings) will automatically flow to your landing pages as well
  • good overview training lesson on HubSpot Academy
  • simple to add Featured image on the page
  • has the nice Optimisation review feature
  • you can use HubSpot’s Ads option to insert Facebook, LinkedIn and Google tracking pixels into the pages (see down below in The Hurdles for some side effects of this)


Some things I’ve been struggling with:

  • UPDATE: This is now available (was updated as part of a release after we had recorded the episode): some styling issues with form labels (I can edit them on the form, but when a form is added to the landing page it inherits landing page styles, and I can’t work out how to edit form labels) – for example I wanted to change the form labels to white (from black) as I had added a dark background image behind the form – I couldn’t work out how to do this…
  • can’t edit <head> properties such as adding a noindex tag on a Thank you page (ideally we want to exclude Thank you pages from getting indexed in Google and Bing)
  • you can’t add any Landing page reports to the main dashboard – I was expecting similar options to Email reports (which you can add to the main dashboard). You can see basic landing page details on a page by page basis though (which is good)


Some things that are frustrations for me:

  • can’t add other tracking scripts to the pages eg our standard is to add Google Tag Manager (GTM) to all pages, so we can insert other tracking scripts such as Google Analytics Link and Form events, as well as social tracking such as LinkedIn Insights tag and Facebook pixels
  • One possible option: add a Rich Text module to the page and add the GTM script in there, but this may not be reliable
  • However, as mentioned earlier, you can work around the social pixels to some extent by using the Ads feature in HubSpot to add pixels in Settings (however this will be limited to Google, FB and LI, you can’t add others eg Twitter, Pinterest). Note these pixels will be added via HubSpot’s tracking code – you won’t see them inserted into the source code on the page
  • There is a side effect of this however, since if you elect to add FB, LI pixels via HubSpot’s tracking code it will do it for all instances of where the tracking code is added eg if you have a main site (using WordPress for example) and you have the tracking code there, it will be adding the LI, FB pixels there as well (which is problematic if you were using GTM to add it – since they will now be doubling up)
  • Ideally I’d love HubSpot to add a simple tickbox that adds Google Tag Manager to their sites (ie similar to their Google Analytics tickbox – it’s kinda strange they haven’t done this yet).

hubspot starter landing pages

hubspot starter landing page templates

hubspot starter ssl settings

hubspot starter site integrations

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Shot 4: HubSpot Extra of the Week

E-signature now available in HubSpot Sales Professional

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

Fake likes and followers

It’s now illegal to sell fake followers and likes

Shot 6: Insight of the Week

Twitter bans political ads

There is now pressure on Facebook to do the same.

Conflict when advertising on Facebook

Listen to our discussion in episode 151 where we considered advertising on cigarette packs:

Craig’s internal conflict continues to grow: pushing money into platforms to get results for our clients, but on platforms that we are increasingly uncomfortable with.

Pay to play is almost mandatory for most businesses. As Scott Galloway notes in a recent episode of Pivot – this essentially makes it a tax. Something that most businesses can’t avoid.

But can you avoid using paid social. For most businesses, you can’t.

Shot 7: Podcast of the Week

Derek Sivers Podcast

Shot 8: Resource of the Week

HubSpot chats about Adaptive Testing

Shot 9: Quote of the Week

From James Clear on Twitter:

Needless commitments are more wasteful than needless possessions.

Possessions can be ignored, but commitments are a recurring debt that must be paid for with your time and attention.

“The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for it.”

—Henry David Thoreau

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week

Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.
Episode 182: Landing Pages in HubSpot Starter

– [Ian] Hi everyone, welcome to HubShots episode 182. In this episode, we chat about HubSpot’s landing page options in HubSpot Starter, plus much more goodness on this, very special, Melbourne Cup Day in Australia. You’re listening to HubShots, Asia Pacific’s number one HubSpot focused podcast, where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks, features and strategies for growing your sales and marketing results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found, and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. How are you, Craig?

– [Craig] Yeah, well like you said, it’s been quite a day.

– [Ian] We watched the race that stopped the nation, didn’t we?

– [Craig] The race that stops the nation. So if you’re in Australia, of course, you understand what this malarkey is.

– [Craig] Hello to Charles. I’m sure he was having a holiday.

– [Craig] Oh yeah he were, oh how you going Charles? But yeah, for overseas listeners, they’re probably thinking what is this Melbourne Cup? Seriously folks, people stop all around the country to watch a bunch of horses run around a track, and a lot of money I think is gambled and spent and all kinds of things. So anyway, there was a bit of a Melbourne Cup do here in the office. You came over and we caught up, and there was lots of cupcakes too, so, well–

– [Ian] They were good cupcakes!

– [Craig] There were some positives, yeah.

– [Ian] And you know what, I reckon most businesses stopped at lunchtime, so there you have it.

– [Craig] Well that’s right. A lot of people just stop at lunchtime and then they go out drinking all afternoon and night, but no, dear listeners, we are here recording HubShots for your listening pleasure.

– [Ian] All right Craig, so onto our growth thought of the week.

– [Craig] Actually growth thoughts of the week. Before we get to the TLDW, but did you see the news? There’s two items of news related to HubSpot,

– Yes!

– And it’s all over LinkedIn. Have they got a coordinated kind of, does someone, does Brian and Dharmesh, do they just send out a company-wide email, hey, we’re gonna make an announcement, would everyone please share this on LinkedIn. Anyway, as I’m sure they do, and we’ll grow on them ’cause it’s very effective, can’t miss this. So there are two announcements. We’re not actually gonna go into them in this episode, but we just will acknowledge that they were announced.

– [Ian] The first one being HubSpot acquiring PieSync.

– [Craig] So I think PieSync is almost like Zapier,

– Correct.

– But very contact-centric.

– [Ian] Yeah, and then the other news of bit of an integration with Canva. So for graphic design, I don’t know what that looks like yet.

– I saw a–

– A button. A button, the Canva button.

– [Ian] The Canva button.

– [Craig] So we’ll chat about those in upcoming episodes. But yeah, just worth acknowledging them here.

– [Ian] Well you know that, that promotion about having your email in HubSpot CRM? Remember that HubSpot did, when they released free email in setup.

– Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

– [Ian] It was such a success on LinkedIn that we’re following suit here, Craig.

– [Craig] Yeah, look it’s worth it. We kind of have these, this idea of pods, where you’d have a group of people and you all get in and share something on social, and everyone else jumps on to share it–

– That’s right.

– and like it and prop it up. It’s like, HubSpot, they’re the masters at it. Well done.

– [Ian] I’m sure there’s a lesson coming very soon. All right, so tell me about TLDW, Craig.

– [Craig] Well had you heard of this, TLDW?

– [Ian] Not until I read the show notes.

– [Craig] You’ve probably heard of TLDR, which is too long, didn’t read. Well apparently lots of people had TLDW, which is too long, didn’t watch, and it’s what people put in comments when someone posts a video that is far too boring and long to watch. People just replying with TLDW, you know, it’s kinda like, just sum it up for me in a sentence, I couldn’t be bothered watching your video. It’s like, yeah, that’s becoming more common.

– [Ian] So what’s the tip, Craig?

– [Craig] Well the tip–

– [Ian] Make a good summary at the start?

– [Craig] Well, yeah, I guess, keep it short and punchy and don’t just assume because you’re using the video format that people will watch. I guess there are other things. Always use captions and that as well, as we know on social, but it’s really just about making sure the content is actually good. There’s been such a push for video, right? Oh everyone’s video, video. So people are pumping out these boring as all something videos, and people aren’t watching them. So yeah, TLDW, there you go, something to add to your acronym list.

– [Ian] All right Craig, on HubSpot marketing feature of the week, and this is to do with landing pages in HubSpot Starter.

– [Craig] Yes, so this came out, just on Sunday, but we’re recording on the fifth of November, Melbourne Cup Day, by the way, did we mention that? Yeah. Anyway, so this has been out for a couple of days, and so I’ve put together just a few of my thoughts on it. You’ve had a chance to play with it as well.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] We will dive into this deeper as we use it more on our client sites, but yeah, I thought we’d just kinda summarize kind of our takeaways so far, and this is really, it’s a cut-down version of landing pages.

– [Ian] It is.

– It’s in Starter.

– And it is very different to the normal landing page too, in terms of it’s a drag and drop, a bit like the email editor.

– [Craig] Yeah, that’s right. So, oh well, what, actually before I dive into mine, I’ve written a whole blog post around it, but what’s your kind of thoughts, what’s been your initial impressions?

– [Ian] My initial impressions are great, in the perspective of A, closing that loop of all the things that we need to get started with a business, and that’s what I liked about it. Look, I haven’t played with it as in depth as you have. You know, I read your notes and I went to discover some of the things. So we’ll go through this right now. So Craig, let’s highlight some of the good things about the landing page tool that’s in HubSpot Starter.

– [Craig] Yeah, so some of the good things, well, first of all, it’s really simple to use, as you would expect. There’s a good set of initial templates. It’s only a small selection, we’ve got screenshots in the show notes, but they’re quite good. So for example, there is ebook signup and a thank you page. There’s newsletter signup too. There’s a few of each. So that’s quite good. Adding domains is really easy, and also SSL is enabled, well it’s there by default.

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] There is a situation if you don’t use a domain but you just use the default HubSpot domain, which is you know, like that test kind of–

– [Ian] Yes, HS dot something.

– [Craig] It doesn’t apply SSL by default, so I’ve got something else on the show notes to make sure you turn that on. And you might think, well why would you do that, surely you’d have your own domain? I actually think a good option here is, there are many cases when, no, just don’t need to put your domain in, and I’m surprised by the number of times I’ve been visiting someone’s site and they go, oh here, sign up, and it fires off to–

– [Ian] Lead pages or something like that.

– Lead pages, and it’s a really ugly lead pages. People don’t care. And especially on mobile, they don’t care, or coming from social, just opens, they fill out the form. So I think there’s a very good use case here for having landing pages that just use the default HubSpot ugly URL, we’ll call it, as opposed to a domain. And there is simple reporting. So you see the landing page, and you get a per landing page report.

– [Ian] You know one thing I did like? The optimizations review. So have you got the title correctly and so on. I really thought that was good, like it’s–

– I think that is good too.

– [Ian] Hitting on the things that we need to be looking at.

– [Craig] Yeah, also you know, there’s some nice things, like, you know the cookies setting?

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] You can put in, in settings you go cookies. Yep, that follows through. So even if you’ve got it on your own website, it’ll follow through on landing pages. They have a great little HubSpot Academy overview on it. Like this is well, you know, this is a polished release. I guess they flagged it at Inbound, so they’ve had a bit of time to make sure it’s there. And also, like simple things, like a featured image is part of the settings there. So if you’re sharing the landing page on social, featured image’ll come through. And then also, because they’ve got the HubSpot ads add-on, well, like an ad, it’s–

– [Ian] Well, mini add-on.

– [Craig] Mini add-on, yeah. Well it’s the ads feature.

– [Ian] It’s ads feature within the tool.

– [Craig] Which you can get in Starter and that will actually work with it as well. So part of that is, it can insert pixels, like Facebook Pixel, Google Pixel, LinkedIn Pixel–

– Very important.

– And that’ll work in this landing page as well. Now that does have a bit of a gotcha, which I’ll get to next, but yeah, lots of good things here, and for many people, many small businesses especially–

– [Ian] Great place to start.

– [Craig] This is a no brainer. If you’ve got Marketing Starter, it’s like, well, just get these landing pages going.

– [Ian] Great. All right, so let’s talk about couple of the average things, Craig, that you’ve been struggling with.

– [Craig] Okay, so I’ve been struggling with some of the styling. I’ll give you an example. Form labels. I can’t actually work out how to style those on the landing page. You’ll style them on the form, right, and if you were to use that form on say a WordPress site, it would carry the styling over, but when you use that HubSpot form on the HubSpot landing page, it inherits the styling from the landing page. Now on the landing page itself, I can’t work out actually how to set the styles of the labels on the forms. So I’ll give you an example. They’re by default white, but then on the page, I actually don’t have a screenshot here in the show notes, but one of the ones I was working on for a client, we had a dark background, so I was making all the font white so it stands out, but I couldn’t get it on the form fields, so they’re all black. Now part of me says there’s something obvious I’m missing, that this is just an issue I’ve only been playing with a couple of days so maybe I’ve missed it, but if I’ve missed it, then well, you know, it’s easy to miss, I guess. Maybe it’s really obvious and I missed it, but that was a challenge. You can’t edit it head properties to put meta tags in. So our standard use case on a thank you page is always to put a noindex meta tag, ’cause you don’t want Google indexing your thank you pages.

– Correct. That’s right.

– Especially if it’s got a download, things like that. I can’t see any way to add that to the head section of a page.

– [Ian] That should probably be an option that’s someone has to tick, right. Don’t wanna noindex this.

– [Craig] That would be better. That would be better, yeah. And the other thing, you can’t actually add, there’s no widget, report widgets for adding landing pages to the main dashboard.

– [Ian] Oh!

– [Craig] Yeah, now I was expecting there would be, because even with the email, you know how you can set–

– Yes, it has the email, yes.

– [Craig] There’s some email widgets, well they’re called reports, but let’s call them widgets, to add to the main dashboard. You can do that for email, you can’t do it for landing pages. I don’t know if it’s coming, or it’s not there yet, but I couldn’t see where.

– Yeah right.

– [Craig] I kind of expected that, ’cause on your dashboard this makes it complete, right?

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] Main dashboard okay, sure,

– I want to see it.

– it’s all cut down, I just want to see contacts, yep, bit of deal information, here’s email information, landing page information. It seemed kind of obvious, but, well look, you’re getting this for free, right, so who am I to complain, but I kind of expected to see that.

– [Ian] All right. Now, some of the things we need to jump over, Craig. Firstly being tracking. So often, like when we’re working, we put in a Google Tag Manager tracking code so we can add tracking in there, and we are unable to do this in Starter.

– Yeah, I find this really frustrating, and in some ways it’s a showstopper for me for most of our clients, because our standard kit is Google Tag Manager, set up all the pixels, everything’s–

– Correct.

– Inserted by Google Tag–

– And it’s easily manageable.

– [Craig] Yeah, and that includes inserting on landing pages. Now, I think for many businesses, maybe they don’t, this isn’t the use case they need, so maybe it’s not a concern for them, but it’s becoming the standard, Google Tag Manager. And so HubSpot, they do have the checkbox, Add Google Analytics, and there are workarounds about how you can get the pixels in using the ads.

– Correct, yep.

– [Craig] Settings, but I just want a little, I just wanna be able to add Google Tag Manager to these landing pages, and I couldn’t work out how to do it. I don’t think you can do it. I know you contacted Support

– I did.

– And they came, and what did they came up with a slight, or a suggestion.

– [Ian] Yeah, they just said to use a rich text module and put the code in there, and it won’t necessarily insert it at the right spot, but they pointed me to an article which I’ll dig out, which people said you know, what happens if you do insert the Tag Manager code, not in the head, but in the body somewhere? It’s our future.

– I haven’t actually had a chance to test that yet,

– Neither have I.

– And that might be the workaround, that might work for us, but still–

– [Ian] Can we please have it? I just wanna–

– [Craig] In fact, for HubSpot, I just want a tickbox that just says, Insert Google Tag Manager, and you just put the Tag Manager code.

– That’s right. It should be, yeah.

– [Craig] That’s what I want. But that’s pretty much my hurdles. Overall, I think it’s very compelling.

– [Ian] It is very compelling.

– [Craig] It’s such a good addition. I think for many businesses, this negates the need for a third party landing page tool.

– [Ian] That’s right.

– [Craig] Plus, until we get this Google Tag Manager piece sorted, maybe we’ll still continue to use it, but I’d love to get rid of all those other tools and just reduce our marketing stack even further.

– [Ian] Yes, agreed.

– [Craig] We’re 90% there, this is so close, and yeah, well done, HubSpot, really impressed.

– [Ian] All right, Craig, onto HubSpot sales feature of the week, and this is to do with CRM customizations. It says that we’ve been waiting for. This applies to Professional and Enterprise, and this gives you the ability on the contact record to customize what you can see on the contact records on those left and right columns.

– [Craig] Now you’ve got this on, I haven’t actually tried this yet, and we did flag this a couple of episodes ago, didn’t we, when we saw the announcement.

– [Ian] Yes, at recording this episode, you can opt in for it, and on the 11th of November, I think it rolls out to everybody.

– [Craig] Okay, cool. So this is–

– [Ian] So, to be honest, I haven’t played with it fully. I’ve read some of the documentation about it, and I’ve actually gone in. So I’ll tell you one thing I did try to do, ’cause I’ve had customers ask me, like, “We’re not using a service partner. “Can I just delete that off there?” So I actually went into this customer’s account and tried it. You can’t delete things out of there. So you can’t delete like the entire service widget, for example. That will remain there. I can go in and change what’s on it, but obviously if I’m not using it, who cares? So just be aware of that. I thought maybe I’d be able to get rid of a whole widget, but I can’t.

– [Craig] That’s really interesting. So what do you do, you just push it down the bottom right, out of the way?

– [Ian] No, oh yeah I guess you would.

– You can reorder them.

– [Ian] You would reorder them, correct.

– [Craig] But this will become a problem, especially with they’re becoming a platform. Did you know they’re a platform now, Ian?

– [Ian] Yes, I did. We are a platform company, Craig.

– [Craig] So basically you’re gonna have more and more of these integrations, that’s my point, so–

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] Your sidebars are gonna get very crowded. I guess this new customizing layout is a step in that direction, where you will actually be able to hide them altogether. I would imagine that’s coming down the track.

– [Ian] Exactly, and I think that’s what we would want to see to make life easier. All right Craig, we’ve got the Go the Extra of the week, and that is e-signatures being available in HubSpot Sales Professional. So we tried this out.

– [Craig] I must say that was a very good experience.

– [Ian] It is, isn’t it?

– [Craig] Yeah, it was very slick and seamless. And good on HubSpot for this, because I feel in the past they’ve released some stuff and I’ve felt, oh this wasn’t quite ready, they’ve rushed this out.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] This is not one of them. And lately, and well, we’ve just talked about landing pages.

– Well this has been in Enterprise. This has been in Enterprise. Has been rolled down into Professional.

– Oh, is it the exact same Enterprise functionality?

– It’s exactly the same Enterprise functionality.

– Oh, oh well that would explain it, right. Actually I thought they had brought it down and actually limited a bit, but no totally–

– No, it’s just been brought down from Enterprise into Professional. So this is a feature that’s been there in HubSpot Enterprise for well over a year, I think.

– [Craig] Okay, well no wonder it’s so seamless, then. ‘Cause it’s really good, isn’t it?

– [Ian] Yes, and it is powered by HelloSign, just so you’re aware. That’s how it happens, and so we did a test internally to ourselves, and there was an interesting feature in there about countersigning, right. So that was actually being able to choose who had to countersign that quote, and it was a great experience. You did the signature on your desktop, trying to use a mouse. That was very, very tactful.

– [Craig] Oh yeah, and that was a beautiful signature I applied.

– It was. And then I actually used the feature in there where you could actually take a picture of your signature on your phone, and you could email that picture into HelloSign, and it was waiting for it because it had a unique ID in the subject, and then it picked it up and you could edit it or cut it up, rotate it, et cetera, clean it up, and then add it to the, as your signature, which I thought was fantastic.

– [Craig] All right, so one of the things I liked is how when I went to sign, it made me verify my identity by sending me an email, which I had to then verify.

– Correct.

– [Craig] Was that a setting that you chose, or that’s just–

– No, that is the standard mode of operation.

– [Craig] Okay, well the reason I ask, ’cause I’ve signed plenty of things that were HelloSign enabled forms, and I’ve never had that before. So I was wondering if that was a new–

– [Ian] So I suspect that is a default setting that they’ve enabled. I was really impressed with that, and I think it’s something that we’re just gonna keep using more and more. Get those signatures on there, Craig. And again, so people have asked me this before, once people have accepted the quote, are they able to download it or is it a web-based only quote? There is an option to print, and there is an option to download it as a PDF.

– [Craig] Yeah, and the download includes the full history and everything.

– [Ian] It does, it gives you the IP addresses of when you signed it and what time, and the IP address mark. All right, marketing tip of the week, Craig.

– [Craig] Did you know it’s illegal to sell fake follows and likes? So there’s always been this problem in the industry of buying likes, buying followers.

– [Ian] It’s like buying friends, isn’t it Craig?

– [Craig] It’s well, it’s buying friends

– I’m joking.

– That you don’t actually know. And everyone kind of frowns on it and says they don’t do it, and of course, everyone does it. I’m talking about US politicians and things like that, right.

– Yes.

– [Craig] Okay, so we’ve all known about this, well now it’s actually illegal. So it’s not as though it’s just frowned upon and people get called out about it. It’s actually illegal.

– [Ian] Yes, so the FTC has ruled, ruled this.

– Which is a good thing, and I think, I think this is a good sign, I’m assuming this will go to other countries as well. But yeah, just a sign of the times, I think, when something becomes that problematic that there needs to be government–

– Stepping in.

– Intervention to make it illegal, I think that’s interesting. I’d love to see some of the court cases that come out when people will be charged and this will be tested and things like that. But just another, I guess sign that authenticity is not only the way you should go, but it is almost, yeah, criminal ramifications if you don’t.

– [Ian] Yeah, and look, I’ll say this from a perspective, I’ve had a few people come to me and say, “Hey look, we’ve got heaps of, we’re working with someone, “we’ve got heaps of followers on Instagram, for example, “but we don’t seem to get much engagement.” And then when you dig a little bit further, you find that they’ve actually bought followers and likes, and therefore, they’re not engaged. Like, they’re just not real people.

– [Craig] Well there’s this whole argument to be made for it around social proof. And I’ll happily admit, I’ve tested this way back when it started years ago. I was buying thousands of fans and likes on accounts. I was just testing it to see how it goes, and definitely there was a social proof element there, and of course they had no engagement or anything like that, so totally worthless, wasn’t even driving traffic, completely fake, but it certainly gives the appearance of credibility. If you were only doing fake likes and fake followers, sure, it’s very obvious. But when you blend it in with actually a real community, you’re basically accelerating or giving the appearance of accelerated growth. So that’s the way it could have been used I guess well–

– In conjunction.

– [Craig] Yeah, and so the fact that they’re ruling that out and well, you know, any form of that is now illegal, I think that’s a good thing. In our next you know, shot, we’re gonna talk about the general, I guess side effects of social overall, but yeah, I think this is just the way, it’s all around authenticity. You’ve really gotta aim for that now.

– [Ian] All right, which leads us onto our insight of the week, Craig. Twitter bans political ads.

– [Craig] All right, so this was big news last week that Twitter is banning all kinds of political advertising from I think it’s later in November, like 22nd of November onwards. So this puts a lot of pressure, and the reason this was such good timing from Twitter, well done, masterfully played, was because Facebook is under a lot of fire for this lately, and I think it was just into the Facebook earnings call when Twitter announced it. It’s just gold, it’s just, anyway.

– [Ian] And we’ve got elections coming up next year.

– [Craig] Yeah, well that’s right. And so now the pressure’s on Facebook. Will they do it and well, let’s assume they do, I kind of, well I don’t know.

– [Ian] Kind of feel like they’re gonna follow, right?

– [Craig] They kinda have to in some ways, but money speaks louder than words, and their earnings call has shown massive increase, so advertisers don’t care, right, people don’t seem to care. You know, who knows what’s gonna happen. Anyway, it just raised for me, this idea again, of as an agency, and as a marketer, and perhaps listeners as marketers, and well other agencies, how do you feel about putting money into a platform, I’m thinking mainly of Facebook, but applies to all the social platforms, especially applies to Google, giving them money, okay, to drive results for your clients, on a platform that you are increasingly uncomfortable with? And I’m increasingly uncomfortable with Facebook, and back in episode 151, which was a while ago, we actually discussed this idea of would you advertise on cigarette packs?

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] And I was kinda being overly dramatic at the time, but I kind of feel the example still holds, a very addictive and potentially harmful product that you advertise on to get results for your clients, and so I have this ongoing conflict, and I think the reason I mention it is because I know other marketers, this is nagging or niggling at them. And I think we’re gonna see some kind of change in behavior with many marketers maybe rethinking how they spend their dollars, and I’m actually rethinking our agency, how we position our agency. I actually wanna pull back from doing paid, we do so much paid advertising for our clients, because it gets such good results, right. You can’t deny that, it’s pay to–

– Absolutely.

– It’s pay to play, you have to do it, right. And I know there are a few companies, Databox is one, that hasn’t done any paid, and well they’ve done a very strong content plan, but I kinda feel like, well, imagine if they’d done paid, they would have grown heaps better, I don’t know, you know, I can’t say they’ve been very successful, but there will be exceptions to the rule, but as a general, most companies, they have to pay to play. They have to pay Facebook, and they get results, and so I’m increasingly uncomfortable with it, so I’m like, how do I do this as an agency and perhaps listeners, as a marketer, how do you do this and feel right about it?

– [Ian] So that’s interesting thing, Craig. So how does that differ from say people that used to pay 10s or 100s of 1000s of dollars to Yellow Pages to advertise their business, or did that on TV?

– [Craig] Well, I think it’s the difference between the users, because there’s a case, a strong case to be made, that particular platforms, Facebook, Google, are harmful in the sense that they’re addictive, and they also propagate information in a bubble that might just reinforce biases that are not helpful, and could be therefore harmful to others that are excluded or biased against, discriminated, et cetera. I don’t wanna go into that here. Let’s just assume that that’s possible and that’s true. If that is, do I wanna be part of that platform? Now, Yellow Pages, not addictive, not harmful. Extortionate, maybe.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] And other avenues. Even television, you could say is some ways–

– [Ian] Possibly addictive.

– [Craig] Possibly addictive, but quite highly regulated, well especially in Australia.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] And there are codes of conduct

– Correct.

– And all those kinds of things. I’m not sure of the case in other countries, maybe the US is more lax, but certainly in European countries there’s a lot more regulation around what can be shown and–

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] There’s almost a protection of the people. So I feel it’s different, and I feel the social platforms are different. So that’s probably my response to there, and so it does need greater thought and oversight, and ultimately we’re putting money in, we’re giving money to them, and you know, I’m a Facebook shareholder. I stand to gain from this as well, so, anyway, my point is, I’m conflicted, and the reason I’m raising it on the show, and will continue to raise it, is ’cause I think a lot of marketers are becoming conflicted about this. It needs more discussion.

– [Ian] Now there was an interesting podcast on, was it Recode?

– [Craig] Oh Rec, Pivot.

– [Ian] Pivot, sorry.

– [Craig] Yeah, with who–

– [Ian] With Scott Galloway actually was talking about this, and we listened to it together. It was really interesting. He said it was pay to play was almost like a mandatory tax on businesses, which I thought was really interesting.

– [Craig] Yeah, well when you have to do it, and there’s no other choice but pay to play, it’s not just differentiation then. It’s a tax. It’s a tax on small business, especially. I don’t know what my takeaway there is, except to say I think we need to be discussing this more. As marketers, we need to be thoughtful marketers.

– [Ian] Correct. I agree with that. Definitely, think about being thoughtful towards your audience. All right Craig, our podcast of the week? It is the Derek Sivers podcast. And this is a little book that you gave me, which I think was a book that we had on one of the previous shows and we had a quote out of it, but you gave it to me, and it was really interesting. I read it on the way home on the train, and then, was just one of those books where I was like, I actually couldn’t put it down. I actually read it through and finished it that night because it was so good.

– [Craig] It was so good. I’m just seeing it on the bookshelf there, yes. It was called “Anything You Want”, I think. And he started CD Baby, didn’t he?

– [Ian] Yes he did. And you know what? It’s really interesting, his podcast. So he sent an email out the other day, I got it and I’m like, oh cool. I listen to it, his podcasts are every day, and they last between one and three minutes. Just a little thought, and so I’ve just gone through and listened to them all.

– [Craig] He’s the Seth Godin of podcasting.

– [Ian] That’s right! But anyway, what I wanted to say was, there’s some really good things in there, and it doesn’t take long to listen to it, and I wanted to highlight, because he is somebody that has actually, I would actually recommend reading the book firstly. When you’ve read the book and then you listen to his podcast, you kind of, I think it makes a bit more sense, because you can understand where he’s coming from, as opposed to just listening to that thought and going, oh, really, does this guy have any idea? But I think it’s really thought provoking, and I loved it, so that’s why I wanna recommend it on the show. All right, we haven’t, the resource of the week, Craig, and this is to do with adaptive testing.

– [Craig] Yeah, so look, we’re coming up to time, we can’t dive into this, but it’s a blog post on the HubSpot blog, and really what they’ve tried–

– You know what it says? AB testing is dead.

– [Craig] They’ve basically said, oh adaptive testing, which is really just multivariate testing with multiple versions of pages. So it’s like ABCD testing.

– [Ian] Exactly.

– [Craig] And they call it adaptive testing.

– [Ian] Because there’s machine learning involved, right?

– [Craig] Well… Like this is not a new concept, but they’re trying to own the term. Where there’s lots of AI put into multivariate testing and things. They do make some good points in the post,

– It does.

– So go and read it, but yeah.

– [Ian] Yeah, and look, if you’re a marketer, I think you’ve got to understand that this is available, and this available now in Enterprise within your portal if you’re an Enterprise user. If you’ve got Professional, you’re not gonna see that. You’ve still got AB testing, which is dead. So I’d definitely be using that, because I think even that is under-utilized, but be aware that this is available to you, and you know, there are people that would be using this, not necessarily on the platform, but using other tools that might actually have it, and I think it’s really important to have an understanding of what that is.

– [Craig] Do you remember the days when one of the biggest differentiators between Marketing Pro and Marketing Enterprise–

– [Ian] Was AB testing.

– [Craig] Was AB testing.

– [Ian] I do.

– [Craig] And then, remember the day they put AB testing down into Pro, and we’re going, oh, that’s great, and well now they’re just telling us AB testing is dead. That’s progress, folks.

– [Ian] Now we’re onto adaptive, Craig, come on. Get with the program! All right, Craig, what’s that quote of the week?

– [Craig] Oh, actually, I saw this on Twitter from James Clear, and he was making a comment and then he quoted–

– [Ian] Now James Clear wrote a book, right?

– [Craig] He did, “Atomic Habits”. Great book, really good book about productive, effective productivity, I would say. Anyway, do you wanna read the quote?

– [Ian] Yeah.

– [Craig] Oh actually, there was some, his comments leading up to the quote.

– [Ian] Yeah, so it says, “Needless commitments “are more wasteful than needless possessions. “Possessions can be ignored, but commitments “are a recurring debt that must be paid for “with your time and attention.”

– [Craig] And then he quotes Henry David Thoreau, saying “The price of anything is the amount of life “you exchange for it”.

– [Ian] What can I say, Craig? After hearing the, after reading the first two and then hearing that quote, I’m like, wow.

– [Craig] What can you say? You can get off Facebook, that’s what I can…

– [Ian] Anyway, listeners, I hope you’ve enjoyed this show. We’d love it if you could share this podcast with one person that you know that would benefit from it, and also leave us a rating on Apple Podcasts, that would be fantastic. Well listeners, I hope you enjoyed this episode. Until next time–

– [Craig] Catch you later, Ian.

– [Ian] See you, Craig. Thank you for listening to this episode of HubShots. For show notes, resources, HubSpot news, including practical strategies you can implement, visit us at

Episode 181

Episode 181: HubSpot Tasks, Marketing Mindset

Welcome to Episode 181 of Hubshots!

APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

This episode we chat about HubSpot tasks, and having a mindset of openness.

Listen to the episode here:

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel here:

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Recorded: Monday 28 October 2019 | Published: Friday 6 December 2019

Shot 1: Growth Thought of the Week

HubSpot Training continues the awesome

Training on How to be really good at marketing in 2020!

A 15-part video crash course on bringing live chat, Facebook Messenger, and bots into your inbound strategy for the first time.

The HubSpot moat widens.

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

HubL Designer Tweaks

The HubSpot Design now includes more warnings when you are potentially going to break something

Eg if you rename a custom module, it will prompt you to check dependencies

Screenshot 28 10 19  4 29 pm

You may recall we’ve highlighted the dangers of renaming assets previously (it was a Gotcha in episode 152:

Looking forward to customising our Contact sidebars (when we finally get it):

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Using Tasks

Want to highlight the importance of using tasks in contacts, deals & tickets.

To keep things in one place and know if things are being actioned by the appropriate people.  Not to mention that you can have email reminders to notify the necessary person.

Shot 4: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

It’s a gotcha free episode!

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

Opt-in to Spam field on forms

semrush form with spam optin


  • Make sure it is clearly marked
  • Make sure it is optional

Shot 6: Insight of the Week

Having a mindset of openness

Marketing is constantly changing, so you need to open to new ideas, especially if they are advice from experts.

Often this means overcoming your own biases towards things you are comfortable with, or that you feel emotionally will work, even though they may not be backed up by data.

That said, there’s a balance between doing just a few things well, versus trying everything.

So, make sure you have a ‘test and measure’ plan that is well spaced out, so you don’t run thin trying to do everything.

Some things to be open to:

  • LinkedIn versus Facebook
  • Google versus Bing
  • Instagram versus Twitter

Most companies will happily embrace the first, but not the latter.

Shot 7: App of the Week

Setting your bedtime on your iPhone.  It reminds you when to go to bed to get the rest you need and also turns off all notifications till morning!

IMG F414EFC66E3B 1

Shot 8: Resource of the Week

Ahrefs Blogging tips for beginners:

Shot 9: Quote of the Week

“Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So. . .sail away from the safe harbour. Explore. Dream. Discover.”

– Mark Twain

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week

Aaron Wall’s take on the recent Google changes to nofollow

Interesting item of the week: BBC News launches ‘dark web’ Tor mirror

Guide to keyword research:

Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

Episode 181: HubSpot Tasks, Marketing Mindset

– [Ian] Hi everyone, welcome to HubShots episode 181. In this episode, we talk about HubSpot Tasks, and having a mindset of openness. You’re listening to HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals, who use HubSpot. It’s hosted by myself, Ian Jacob from Search and Be Found, and Craig Bailey from . How are you Craig?

– [Craig] Looks pretty good and another interesting night ahead.

– [Ian] So let’s start with our Growth Thought of the Week, Craig.

– [Craig] Look this really is HubSpot’s . We chatted about this last week, didn’t we, or in an episode or two ago. The most that they got through their training, and well, it’s a trifecta, isn’t it? Product usability, which is great, customer support, and then learning and training around it. Then, well, here’s another example, isn’t it?

– [Ian] That’s right. And this is a fifteen part video crash course they call it. And what did it say, it say, “Bringing Chat, Facebook Messenger, and Bots “into your Inbound Strategy for the First Time.” And it’s how to be really good at marketing in 2020. So I’d encourage you, I’ve just watched one or two of them, but I encourage everybody actually do take the time to do this because, I think from all the times that we’ve spoken on this podcast about how people are buying and what’s happening, I think this is a very clear indication of the channels that we need to be focusing on, coming into 2020.

– [Craig] I think that’s exactly right and coming up in Shot six we’re actually gonna be talking about mindset and having this open mindset to learning, because marketing is changing so much. So here’s a good example and jump onboard.

– [Ian] That’s right. All right, HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week, Craig.

– [Craig] Well, it’s not really a feature, but it’s an improvement. So this is when you’re in your HubSpot Designer and you’re working on a custom module. We talked about this back in Episode 152, something like that, it was a while ago. How you change the name of a variable, or perhaps a customer module, and you think, “Oh, it’s just a name, it’s a label, right?” But no, a whole lot of things broke. Well, we lamented at the time that there was no indication that was the case but, just noticed today because I was changing something it wasn’t actually used anywhere, because I was just creating a new one. But then when I did change the name, it prompted up and I got a screenshot in the show notes right, it just warns you it says, “Hang on, this might have “a whole bunch of dependencies. “You wanna check these.” And it actually makes you check a box saying, “Yeah, I confirm there’s gonna be no problem.” Before it actually continues to rename it. It’s good you know, it’s kind of saving you from yourself. Obviously, we would like it so that it would go and update those dependencies for you. But it’s no visual studio yet, but it’s getting there.

– But this is Craig.

– [Craig] a good protection mechanism. So that’s why I’m putting it in Feature of the Week because, even though it’s not a feature as such in a new feature, it’s a protection that will save you time. Don’t fall into the problems that we learn the hard way, or you especially learned the hard way at the time.

– [Ian] THat’s right, on a live site. That was rather nerve racking. And you know what, I just wanted to, this is gonna save support so much time. I think that’s right, you know what, I think sometimes their product enhancements are often just prompted by support saying, “Man, we’re getting too many tickets about this. “Can you fix this?”

– [Ian] And two turkeys on a show talking about it. All right now Craig, we’re looking forward to something coming up, and it’s the Contacts sidebar. Where we can actually rearrange and put what we want on there.

– Yeah, customize. Well, we’ve always been able to put the fields where we want, but now we can put them into groups.

– Correct.

– So that’s gonna be good. So basically having these Contact properties groups. I’m looking forward to that, but we don’t have it yet.

– [Ian] And that’s on marketing enterprise is it?

– [Craig] Pro and Enterprise. So there’s

– Yeah.

– [Craig] different things between Pro and Enterprise, thanks Laura from HubSpot for helping me out on that. But even with Pro you’ll be able to customize it. And so what we’re talking about here is basically grouping together fields and moving them into little sections. So I think it will be nice.

– [Ian] Something to look forward to.

– [Craig] Well yeah because they’ve got a knowledge base about it. They’ve got a blog post. They emailed me about it, do I have it in my portal? No.

– No.

– [Craig] I’m not quite on the Beta group for that yet.

– [Ian] All right. On to HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week, Craig. And I’m gonna highlight using Tasks, and the importance of it to be used on Contacts, Deals, Tickets, Companies, right? Why I’m saying this, I had a call during the week, and I got the call and was like, “Oh I’m trying to send this person an email. “I need to be logged against that contact, “because I need them to sort out this ticket.” And my question was, “Why are we sending emails around “to tell people what to do in Tickets?” And so I said, “We need to be using the Tasks feature “that’s within there.” So they wanted to inform someone within the team that they need to look after this support ticket. And possibly, somebody was owning the ticket but they needed somebody else from the team to do something. So I said, “Why don’t you actually create “a Task in the Ticket assigned to that person, “set the email notifications?” This is one of the criteria. How did I know that they know that they’ve got a Task, because they don’t log into HubSpot all the time. To which I said, “You can set an email reminder “at a particular date and time to remind that person “that there is a task against their name in HubSpot.” And the benefit of this is you can actually know that the person has done something about it, and then follow up with what needs to happen. Now obviously, if you’ve got professional . If something’s not attended to within a certain period, you could possibly run a workflow to check and maybe notify somebody within the organisation, which I haven’t done. But just trying to highlight to you use the tools and the systems and even use, what seems like a very simplistic tool like Tasks to get stuff done.

– [Craig] Well there are a whole bunch of options there, I’d say. But you can actually check for, you could run workflows based on last activity date and things like that. Workflows can create tasks. So you can do all of those kinds of things. There’s a lot of power there you can put in place if you wanted. That might be overkill. But I think what you’re saying is just this general item, like whenever I create a deal, and it prompts, would you like a Task, I always say yes, because I forget about them. I put the deal in. I’ve actually then remember to go back now. I’m actually like, well, a lot of users. I don’t login to HubSpot to check out my Tasks. So I do rely on that email notification coming out too.

– [Ian] You’re quite right.

– [Craig] I just leave it to HubSpot okay, yeah. You know HubSpot will remind me when I have to follow up that deal. So it’s one less thing that’s clogging up my brain.

– [Ian] Here’s a little bonus tip. There is, if you’re in Workflows, there is a contact re-engagement task set up your Workflows that you can can actually enable. But if there has been no activity on that contact within the last three days, it can set you a task to actually do something.

– [Craig] There you go.

– [Ian] All right, Craig. What’s the Gotcha of the Week?

– [Craig] I’m very pleased to say this is a gotcha-free episode. And I was racking my brain, because I don’t like,

– I was surprised.

– I don’t like to let the listeners down you know. But I always try and have a gotcha. I just couldn’t–

– You know what? You were having a lot of fun with HubDB and I thought you would find something in there.

– [Craig] Oh, HubDB is so good. The number of custom modules were in there, like our new site, which is available if you wanna go and find it. Although we’re not actually promoting it yet, because it’s still got a couple things to be flushed out. But so much of our new site is running on HubDB and Hubble. Just so much stuff like teams, all our products, services, all our certifications everything in there, and client testimonials, badges throughout the site they’re all randomized. Yeah, HubDB it’s so good. I guess I’m really enjoying HubDB and Hubble.

– [Ian] So yeah, let’s go have a look at Craig’s site,–

– Well, it’s a www

– Www?

– Yeah, because I got a now, by a long standing WordPress one, which has been there through millennial now. But our HubSpot one yeah, is the www. I’m still frustrated that you can’t get a clean URL on HubSpot. I know there’s all kinds of technical reasons, but I just wanna be without the www.

– [Ian] Right, gotcha.

– [Craig] At the moment, well you can redirect it, they do it actually. In fact, you can redirect.

– You can redirect.

– [Craig] You can put a redirect in but I want the URL in my browser,

– [Ian] Yep.

– [Craig] to be clean, yeah.

– [Ian] Actually, you know it’s interesting, talking about clean URLs and browsers I’ve noticed in Chrome now, when you actually look at the URL when it actually goes to the site, it doesn’t show www in there. It just shows .

– [Craig] Oh it doesn’t show anything?

– If you go to copy it you will see www.

– [Craig] Yeah and actually the thing that I do like, and I don’t think they had this originally, but, so you’ve just got that clean or truncated

– Yep.

– In the address bar. Let’s say you put your cursor into the URL.

– Yes.

– Then it pre-fills it. But it gets

– Yes.

– your cursor where it should be, which I like, which it didn’t used to do. It used to be, “Ah, I’ve lost my place.” And things like that.

– [Ian] Yeah, that’s right.

– [Craig] Even little things like that, thank you Chrome, that’s something I’d expect from Apple.

– Yeah .

– But Google’s got it in Chrome. That’s very nice! So, I’m totally off track on this.

– [Ian] Thank you to the Chrome Product Team.

– What are we saying, Gotcha of the Week, There’s no Gotcha of the Week. In fact, we’ve just turned it into a craze fest for Hubble and HubDB.

– [Ian] All right, Craig. On to the Marketing Tip of the Week. This is a global marketing day. So, if you go to This is run by SEMrush.

– [Craig] Yes. They’re putting it all together. And well then, I guess you could go and enjoy that. I think it’s on tomorrow actually, or, by the time you listen to this episode, it will be long gone. But that’s not the reason it’s in the shout outs. Because when I was registering for it, did you see this, you fill out your form they ask for your phone number by the way, to attend an online webinar, which I find quite–

– to make sure you don’t miss the start.

– I don’t know, is that what it is for? Anyway, I felt they were a bit officious with the fields they’re asking, but then at the bottom, here’s the one that got me. And it’s–

– Was that pre-filled, that you had to uncheck or?

– No, it wasn’t.

– Okay, you have to .

– You had to fill those in.

– Yeah.

– Or at least it had that but it’s just, I agreed to receive third party offers. Like, it’s a long time since I’ve seen this when signing up for something and they’re gonna sell my emails off to .

– That’s right. by selecting this checkbox, you authorize SEMrush to share your personal data with SEMrush partner for marketing purposes under the indicated forms, terms, sorry.

– [Craig] Yeah, so this is basically . Tick the opt in to get spammed. Like I know there’s co-marketing. This is, but I will say the good thing about it and this is why it’s my Marketing Tip of the Week, is that it’s optional.

– Yes.

– And so if you’re gonna put this kind of thing in your forms, especially if you’re doing co-marketing and you’ve gotta do it right and abide by, well it’s getting increasingly privacy rules and things like that not just GDPR but, anyway, make sure it’s opt in. Make sure it’s off by default. And also, make sure it’s clearly marked. So I will give SEMrush, I guess,

– Points.

– points, for the fact it was clearly marked.

– Yes.

– It wasn’t sneakily put in. But, really? Is that what we’ve come to? Sign up for some online training and I’ve gotta give them my phone number plus potentially opt in? Oh well.

– And your first child too, Craig .

– Oh that’s okay.

– [Ian] All right, Craig, on to Inside of the Week. Having a mindset of openness.

– [Craig] You know we were chatting about this before the show. Like what will we talk about as we munch down on our burgers from the Orchard. Hey, that’s a new burger place in Chatsford, by the way. So what what’s your rating of the burgers at the Orchard, eh?

– [Ian] Oh I don’t know. I’ll give it a five, Craig.

– [Craig] Yeah, it wasn’t a patch from Burger Patch was it?

– No.

– Burger Patch in Chatsford, that’s the place for burgers. Yep, go the extra.

– [Ian] That’s right.

– [Craig] Yeah, hey by the way. this one’s for you Mets. Looking forward to that next ketchup. Anyway, back to the point. Openness. So we’re chatting about this over dinner before the show, chatting about mindset and this topic came up, didn’t it?

– [Ian] Yeah, absolutely. And I wanted to highlight these speakers I have conversations with people every day about trying new things. One of the things over time that I have learned, is to have set aside some budget to actually test and experiment. So, a usual thing is that we’d have about, we’d work up to about a 20% budget to experiment with new stuff.

– [Craig] Oh wow, 20% that’s actually high.

– It’s high, yeah.

– I would have said 10%. Yeah.

– [Ian] So that’s something I’m gearing up, I’m not saying we’re at 20%, but it’s the place I’d like to be. And what it showed me is that people have preconceived ideas about things even if they haven’t tried it. And because, you know I spoke to Craig and he said this, and I have to do this and I’m forgetting about Facebook, that’s rubbish, you know? Like who would use Facebook, honestly?

– Is that a typical response you get, people are just not open to using Facebook?

– [Ian] Correct, don’t wanna use Facebook. Like who’s gonna be on there, tell me. So, not that I was struggling with this, but I had basically demonstrated somebody, look we’re generating leads. We’re in another business that is very in a similar space to yours and I think I get 10 times more leads out of Facebook, as opposed to Google, right? And I thought, if that’s happening right next door to you, what does it mean for the people who are in your market space in your area. Would I not be able to do much the same? And I said, I’m not guaranteeing you anything, “but I think we got to test and measure this.” And then they’re like, “Ah, okay all right. “Let’s give it a go.” We had to have that conversation, right? And I thought this is quite interesting, because as the world transforms and changes so rapidly and we go through exponential growth. Things change, laws change, the way we do things change. Are we actually open to testing new ideas and are we actually opening up our minds to try new things? Are we willing yo say yest to give it a go, or are we just gonna keep saying no to stuff?

– [Craig] I think this is such a good point. And I’m going to say two things. One is, I’m gonna first of all talk about where I’ve had success and I am good at this and potentially almost humble brag about results. But then the second point I’m actually gonna talk about this is actually a lesson for me, because I have this close mindedness to things that, you know, well, I’m not open to. Here I am criticizing, or getting frustrated with clients, because they won’t test stuff that I am suggesting. But, I find myself doing it. So I first of all, I’ll tell you some great success as you know Facebook’s been so good for us even today.

– [Ian] I know, I love those lead ads .

– [Craig] Lead ads and things. Well, one of my wife’s sites, you know the results, I get more than two thousand leads a month.

– Correct.

– For her, right? This is all on Facebook.

– Yes.

– Facebook right? It’s just such a killer channel. And I keep saying this. So we definitely get results and that’s why I’m so open to it, right? And then we say to clients, and they are exactly like you like, “No, no, our clients aren’t on Facebook, “they’re on LinkedIn right?” And we go, “Well, have you tested that, “have you actually tested that, “or is it just biases?” So this is the problem we all have our own biases. So that’s the first point. My second point, do you know what my biases are? I am actually bias against anything that I’m not suggesting to clients. So one of the things I’m actually trying to embrace now and be more open to is LinkedIn. Because I haven’t had much success in the past, and I have tested and measured, and yet it keeps coming up. People say, “LinkedIn, LinkedIn, LinkedIn.” I’m like, Yeah, it just doesn’t work for me.” I’m actually reading books now on it, and doing courses, because I really wanna try it. Some people are getting it to work, and I’m just gonna continue testing and trying to get it to work. But let’s talk about some of the other examples, like Google versus Bing. Do you find this?

– Yeah, .

– They go, “Ah we’re going to be on Google ads?” “But have you tried Bing ads?” “Oh no. “No one there.” I’m like, “Well have you actually tested that? “is it based on just your opinion and cognitive bias, “or do you actually got data to back that up?”

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] It’s often it’s just emotional. Or, and we find sometimes as marketing managers, “No the boss said that’s not where they are.” And I’m like, “The boss, has he done testing? “That’s your job you should be doing the testing “should be telling your boss

– Okay.

– “what’s working “and providing data. “Rather than kind of, ill informed judgment coming down” However, when a client says, “No we’re not gonna do that “we tested it and it didn’t work.” I see the data and it didn’t work. I’m like, “Great, that’s great they tried it.” So I think this all comes back to this whole approach, be open to it. If you’re gonna reject it, make sure you’re rejecting it based on data.

– [Ian] Correct and Id’s say make sure, like I know for you, for both of us, we tried lead ads in Facebook a while back then it kind of stopped working. We stopped doing it and we’re both going back to it now, because it’s generating lots of, it’s working right? And again, did you know Google’s now trying it? I just did–

– You showed me this. And I was going, “Oh my goodness, I wanna try this.” Yeah, absolutely.

– Google ads, they’re just rolling out the equivalent of a lead ad on Facebook, they’re rolling it out to Google, so people never leave Google. It’s that whole experience of, “Oh, I’ve seen that. “I can inquire right now “and I could continue “browsing away.”

– I think they’re going to convert really well. And especially on mobile of course.

– [Ian] Correct.

– [Craig] However, what you’ll also see on Google, this is what I’m really interested to see. Is people will do the lead ads, but they’ll be on a search result and they’ll just go, “Oh lead ad, lead ad, lead ad.” So they’ll probably submitting four of the lead ads. So I think that you’ll get the leads a lot quicker, but of course you’ll be competing with more people, rather than if they came to your site or filled out a form, et cetera. So very interested to see what your test results.

– Now you know what’s really interesting, I’ve also been testing out the messaging feature within Google Ads. The ability for someone to click it, opens up a message, and then sends the message to you.

– [Craig] Just like via Google My Business, is that the right one?

– No, so this is directly from the ad, doesn’t go via Google My Business.

– [Craig] So how does the message come in?

– [Ian] I think it generates the SMS, and then when you click send, it sends it to the number, or it sends it to–

– Right, yep.

– [Ian] That’s how it happens. I haven’t had a lot of success with that, but again I’m testing and measuring in different markets to see whether people are taking that up. It could vary from market to market.

– [Craig] See the difference I think between these lead ads, verses Facebook is gonna be the intent. So if you’ve got a lead ad and you get someone to fill it out on Google I reckon they’re high intent, and I think your time to respond is gonna be so important.

– Yes.

– [Craig] If there’s a list on Facebook, you do a lead ad normally it’s for an asset, you don’t have to respond quickly they just get it by automation. I think there’s gonna be a different mentality or a different approach required.

– [Ian] You know what, that’s absolutely right, Craig.

– [Craig] Yeah, it’ll be interesting to see how things pan out.

– [Ian] Yeah well we’ll let you know guys, as we test and measure. We’ll let you know how we’re going.

– [Craig] All right well, look let’s just finish a few examples. Here’s conversations that I get from my clients,

– Yes.

– [Craig] See if you get these that say, we want to be on LinkedIn, our audience is not on Facebook. So that’s fun.

– Yep.

– Another is, we wanna be on Google Ads, not on Bing,. We’re not even, don’t just dismiss Bing outright. Another one is, they’ll go, “Oh we wanna be on Instagram.” But they’ll dismiss Twitter. So in all those cases, probably the former, you’ll have no problems convincing people to. But the latter ones, you won’t. So I would definitely say, consider Facebook, consider Bing Ads, and consider Twitter as well. We’re pushing back into Twitter. I know I’ve said this many times on the show. But, yeah.

– [Ian] And here’s the bonus I think, What about YouTube? People think that to be on YouTube, you need to actually run video ads, but actually you don’t need to run video ads to be on YouTube. So there’s another option, actually another channel to test, to get in front of your potential audience. All right, Craig, App of the Week.

– [Craig] So it’s not really App of the Week, is it? It’s Function of the Week.

– [Ian] It’s Function of the Week.

– [Craig] Plus, it’s only on iPhone. right there.

– [Ian] That’s right. Well you know, I was talking to a bunch of people. Actually, it was to my connect group at that, my business connect group at church. And, I was talking about, what were we talking about? I think we were talking about growth, or something around that nature. But it came down to, how distracted are we, as individuals get bombarded by more and more things and have more and more things to do. How do we stay focused on what we’re doing? And one of the things I actually heard from them, was turning off your notifications on your phone, so when the first thing you get up in the morning, you don’t look at your phone and start going through your emails. And one thing I’ve been using for awhile now, on an iPhone, in the clock app, there is a bedtime feature, so you basically say, “Look I want eight hours of sleep “and I wanna get up at this time.” So it calculates back and says, “Okay you need to go to bed at this.” So for me, because I get up quite early to go,

– I can’t believe how early you get up. You get up at a quarter to five every morning.

– [Ian] Yeah. So I try to be in bed by nine o’clock, and so I can get enough sleep, because I know that if I don’t, I’m gonna be wrecked the next morning and also, it makes it really hard. So I’ve kind of made that a routine, but actually what happens is, when it A, notifies you that your bedtime’s coming up. So it kind of gives you a warning this is gonna happen and then it basically shuts down all notifications. It snoozes everything. And all you see is that, all notifications are snoozed, and you don’t get anything til the morning, until you’re awake. And I love it, because you know what, it’s just peace of mind and it’s quiet, so.

– [Craig] Look I think distraction free is a general principle. And for marketers, especially, when we need to be creative and strategic and things like that. This morning, I had such a good run. You know, I have some days that just it all fits together.

– Yes.

– Like, you just, oh I don’t know, everything comes together. You get a good night sleep. You’re really motivated. This morning, like I came in, put my phone aside. I didn’t even check email. I just went in I was doing HumDB and Hubble. Maybe that’s not . Just putting together customers, just building and coding and putting together a site. It was so good. And I was like, “Oh my goodness. “It’s lunchtime.” I couldn’t believe it. “Oh I better check emails. “Find out who’s “complaining about me .” Hadn’t even been on Slack, my team were like, “Oh there he is .” Tell you what, the thing distraction free, you get so much done.

– You do.

– It’s amazing.

– [Ian] So there, that’s another highlight. People were unaware that that was a feature on your phone. On to our Reasons of the Week. And this is blogging tips for beginners from Atris.

– [Craig] Yeah, look I’m not even gonna call out any of these. This is just a reminder. I send these to my team as well, saying, “Oh here’s blogging tips. “Or here’s something on keyword research.” Just always reminding people to go and check these things out.

– [Ian] All right, Craig. Quote of the week.

– [Craig] A good one you found. We’ll call this a legacy quote.

– [Ian] It is. It’s from Mark Twain. “20 years from now, you’ll be more disappointed “by the things that you didn’t do, “then by the ones you did do. “So sail away from the safe harbour. “Explore, dream and discover.

– [Craig] There you go, sail away from the safe harbour of LinkedIn and try Facebook.

– [Ian] There are some bonus links in the show. So check that out, when you’re not driving, running around on the beach. And, we’d love you to share this podcast with somebody. And, if you can, take 20 seconds to leave us a rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. It would greatly help us. Well listeners, until next time. Craig, have a good week.

– [Craig] Catch you later, Ian.

– [Presenter] Hey there, thanks for listening to this episode of HubShots. For show notes and the latest HubSpot news and tips, please visit us at

Episode 180

Episode 180: HubSpot HUGcast

Welcome to HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

This episode is a special episode: The HUGcast, involving the Sydney HubSpot User Group.

Listen to the episode here:

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

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Recorded: Wednesday 23 October, 2019 | Published: Friday November 29, 2019.

Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

HubSpot HUGcast

– Hello there, my name is Craig Bailey. I am one of the organizers of the Sydney HubSpot User Group, and I’d like to invite you to our next event, which is this coming Wednesday 27th of November. It’s our final for the year, and it’s going to be an informative night. If you haven’t been before let me tell you about the format. There’s between 50 and 80 smart, interested, digital marketers in the room, and the agenda for the night has three particular items. We have a tip of the night, which I’m gonna go through with you in the next few minutes. There’s a keynote presentation, which dives into industry research and trends. And then, a panel at the end, where we get smart people who have experience with the particular topic of the night, who give their tips and tricks as well as answering questions from the audience. Now, the theme of the night is sales and marketing alignment. As part of that, and the reason for the tip of the night, we’re gonna look at how sales teams and marketing teams can work together, better. With that in mind, the tip of the night that I’m gonna go through is around deal workflows. And, you might say, well if I’m gonna go through the tip now, why would I bother turning up on the night? Well, two reasons. One, this is just the start. So, come for the rest of the night, the presentation and the panel. But two, if you’ve got any questions about this, or perhaps feedback and tips of your own, I’d love to hear them. Leave them in the comments or bring them along, and let’s chat further on the night. But, one of the great reasons to look at deal workflows is because, as marketers, we’re very good at workflows, typically. We have had years of experience working with workflows in HubSpot. But as salespeople, we perhaps don’t use workflows as much. Sales people use deals really well, whereas marketers don’t perhaps know deals as well. So, this is a great way for sales and marketing to work together by using deal based workflows to really help the sales processes, and drive more efficiency. So, what we’re gonna do, because deals have a lot of power and functionality, is we’re going to look at it as a way to notify internal stakeholders. So, when the deal is won, we’re gonna trigger on that. It’s gonna send an email internally. It’s gonna create a task. It’s gonna update a slack channel, and it’s going to send an SMS message. So, let’s log into HubSpot and look at how that all works. This is our agency portal. We have 191 workflows. What you might find interesting though, is if I look at our deal workflows, we’ve only got three. All the others are contact and company ones. And, of the three, we’re only using one that’s active. Perhaps you’re similar to us. And, in some ways this tip of the night, I’m preaching to myself because there’s a lot of power here that we could be using more effectively. Perhaps you have a similar ratio, and this is some ideas for you as well. Let’s dive into our actual workflow, and look at how it works. As you probably know, if you’ve used workflows before, you have triggers that kick off the workflow, and then you have actions that take place as part of the workflow. In our case, we’re just triggering it on a deal being won, being marked as won, and that kicks off a number of actions. You can see, I’ve just clicked the plus button here. Here’s all the available actions. We’re not gonna go through them now. You can go through those. But, what I will look at is just a few specific ones that we use in ours. This is creating a task. You can see how you can use deal tokens in the task. There’s create task in HubSpot. You can create internal email notifications. So, you can choose all the recipients that that’s gonna go to. Here’s the subject line. Again, deal tokens. And, there’s the body of the email. You can include details of the deal. You can create slack notifications. So, this goes to our whole XEN team, letting everyone in the company know that a deal’s been won. And, including details about the deal. And then, you could do some branching. I just put this in to show you that perhaps, you have different processes based on, for example, the amount of the deal. A big deal versus a little deal. You might have different processes. Then you can use the go action at the end, to pull them all together, and then finally, you might have an internal SMS notification. So, that just sends to my mobile. Again, in the text message, you can include deal tokens. That’s pretty much it. An overview of the deal workflow. Hopefully, that makes sense and you’re getting some ideas about how you can incorporate these into your own company. Let me highlight two things though. If you wanna get SMS messages, it’s important that, in your own profile, you include a mobile number. If you don’t have the mobile, you actually won’t be an option to receive SMS messages. So, if you’re going for that action, and you can’t find anyone to send an SMS to, make sure that the mobile numbers are in the profile. And then finally, how do we connect slack? You’ll see here, HubSpot has this new app Marketplace icon. You go in the app Marketplace. Looks like this. You’ll search for slack, and find it. There we go. You’ll click to connect it. I’ve already done that in our portal. So, if I go over to our settings, if I was to go up on the cog, and then settings, and come down here to connected apps. I’ll look for slack. It would have been connected, and you can see some of the options that I’ve set. Default channels that things go out to. So, you need all that for the slack notifications, and setting things there. Apart from that, it’s pretty easy. Pretty straightforward. I hope that’s helpful. I really look forward to seeing you next Wednesday, at the HubSpot User Group. Leave me a comment or leave me feedback. Any questions you’ve got. Tips or tricks, and let’s chat further at the HUG.

Episode 178

Episode 178: How to ‘Test and Measure’ when you can’t measure, plus Merging Contacts gotcha

Welcome to Episode 178 of Hubshots!

HubShots – APAC’s number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast – where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

This episode we chat about how to avoid a gotcha when merging contacts, plus think through how to ‘test and measure’ video engagement.

Listen to the episode here:

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel here:

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Recorded: Wednesday 23 October 2019 | Published: Friday 1 November 2019

Shot 1: Growth Thought of the Week

Our strategy for the podcast

Using it mainly as a bottom of the funnel marketing piece.

We use it to drive perception and credibility.

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

How to change your email in HubSpot

Example scenario: you change your company domain and everyone’s email address changes

How do you update your HubSpot login to use the new address?

Go to your profile, there is a button to change your email address and follow the verification steps as outlined here >
<h2″>Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

Territory rotation with Workflows

Thanks Kyle!

A good example of using workflows to help with sales processes

Shot 4: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

Side-effects of merging contacts

Be aware that merging contacts can re-trigger workflows for the destination contact

You may have started getting email notifications from HubSpot telling you about contacts you can merge. This is good for data cleanliness, but can be a gotcha, which I don’t think HubSpot does a good job of warning people about.

How to handle this: Have exclusions lists in your workflows

Have a process for handling this – the best way to manage it is to have Global Suppression Lists setup which are set in all workflows. Add all the contacts you are going to merge into the Global Suppression list before your merge, and then take them out after the merge.

Listen to Shot 2 back in episode 149 for more details on how we implement this:

Shot 5: Marketing Tip of the Week

No more mixed http and https content messages – Chrome will block http content

However, Chrome is going to do it as intelligently as possible – and will autoupgrade items (eg images) to use their https version if it is available. If not, it will simply block it.

Action item: Check your sites for http items and update to https

Shot 6: Insight of the Week

Test and Measure

How do you ‘test and measure’ if you can’t be confident in the measurements?

Take Facebooks overestimation of video views debacle:

Summary of the issue: how they calculated time spent watching (total time divided by ‘view’ instead of total time divided by ‘started watching’)

Eg if total time watched is 3 mins, and 3 people start watching, but only 1 actually views for more than 3 seconds, then there is a big difference

By one calc the average watch time is 3 mins, with the other it is 1 min, ie a 300% difference

How to accurately test and measure

The key is to push your measurement to be more than just engagement – aim to get visits and conversions as well

It’s also a reminder that using multiple analytics packages is fine – they won’t agree exactly, but they should be within 10% of each other. Eg using both HubSpot analytics and Google analytics on your site.

Here’s an example of bad marketing practices:

Shot 7: Podcast of the Week

Business Casual by Morning Brew


Shot 8: Resource of the Week


Question: Is it a problem if my page has multiple H1 tags.

Answer: No

John Mueller gives a few pointers:

12  Multiple H1 headings  how to handle them for SEO   accessibility   AskGoogleWebmasters   YouTube

Shot 9: Quote of the Week

“Dressing well is a form of good manners.”

  • Tom Ford

From Clare Sheng’s wonderful book: The Suit Book

Shot 10: Bonus Links of the Week

Google Search Console has a few new reports related to video (if you use markup with your videos):

Ahrefs is building a search engine with a 90/10 revenue sharing model

Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

Episode 178

– [Ian] Hi everyone, welcome to HubShots episode 178. In this episode, we look at how to test and measure when you can’t measure plus merging contacts, gotcha in HubSpot. You’re listening to Asia Pacific’s number one HubSpot-focused podcast, where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks, features and strategies for growing your marketing and sales results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. How are you, Craig?

– [Craig] Really good and you know what’s unusual about this episode? We’re actually recording this during daylight hours.

– I know.

– For once. So you came over, we had lunch together–

– [Ian] That’s right.

– [Craig] and it’s about four o’clock in the afternoon.

– [Ian] It’s a cracker of a day outside, I have to say.

– [Craig] It’s so good, but yeah, there’s light, it’s light as we record. Normally, we’re recording late at night so this is a bit of a treat for us.

– [Ian] Onto our growth strategy for the week, Craig, or our growth thought for the week.

– [Craig] Yeah, well, this is something that I’ve said a couple of episodes. We’re gonna chat about our approach to the podcast because this has came up at the HubSpot user group back in September and we’re just gonna mention our approach and this might be useful to listeners because we actually don’t use the podcast as a top of the funnel base, which people might think is weird. Aren’t you trying to get new listeners? Aren’t you trying to grow your audience? Of course everyone wants that and we do want that. And as our listenership grows, that’s great. But once you know the key criteria, actually what we use it for or I’ll talk about it myself, you can chat maybe a little bit different, but it’s a credibility piece. So, for me and our agency, it’s very much bottom of the funnel. It’s about showing our expertise. It’s also about our credibility. And so, rather than generating leads from the podcast, it’s more about when we get a prospect, we’re chatting with them, they look to the podcast to get confidence in us. So, it’s more of a closer. It’s actually more of a sales tool at the end than a marketing tool at the top. How do you feel? Is that similar for you?

– [Ian] It has been very similar for me, Craig, and even more so probably for this year, I would say that’s been a big part of it. So, I think I am trying to with some of the stuff we’re doing internally in our business and like we’ve been doing for ourselves is try to drive more of that to the top of the funnel, so to get people interested.

– [Craig] And here’s the thing. A lot of our work just comes through referral. So, the question for, well, other agencies and small businesses is if you’re getting a lot of work through referrals, should you actually be spending time at the top of the funnel awareness and all these kind of bigger company play books? And well, no, not really. Why would you spend money and time and effort focusing on completely new audiences, if you’re getting referral, right? That makes sense for small business. But as you grow, of course, referral kind of plateaus and you do need to move more to and inbound marketing piece and much more top of the funnel. So, we will be pushing that as we’re growing and I think that’s probably our 2020 goal. We’ll be doing a lot more of that. Pushing the podcast out there, a bit more awareness. But anyway, I just thought that was, perhaps, interesting for our listeners and marketers in general. It’s always about thinking what’s the goal for each piece of content and the strategy behind it. Anyway, just an insight into ours.

– [Ian] All right, Craig, onto our HubSpot Marketing feature of the week. And this is about how to change your email in HubSpot. Now, why I’m gonna highlight this is I had a customer of ours that has moved their email from a dot com domain to a dot com dot au or vice versa and they wanted to know well, how do I change this? Now, in previous times, I would’ve gone oh, you need to create a new user for yourself, go through the whole process, then reassign all the contacts to yourself. Anyway, you don’t need to do that. You go to your profile preferences. You can actually edit your email address that’s associated to your account and then you have to go through the reverification process again, but it means that now you don’t have to go through all that malarkey that you used to do before. So, there you go.

– [Craig] Who would’ve thought it was that simple, eh?

– [Ian] I know.

– [Craig] Just go to your profile and update it.

– [Ian] Thank you to HubSpot Support for pointing that out to us.

– [Craig] By the way, I was listening when you had that HubSpot ’cause you called them, right?

– That’s right.

– And, well, apart from some interesting on hold music.

– [Ian] I know that, the on hold music, I don’t know about the on hold music.

– [Craig] Worth calling ’em just to listen to that, my goodness. But anyway, it’s super helpful. I’m sure we have, but have we ever had a bad support experience? Gee, they’re good.

– [Ian] I think about this is the marketing and growth thought of the week. That’s one thing that they’ve nailed, support. All right, onto our HotSpot sales feature of the week Craig. Territory rotation with work flows. Shout out to Kyle for this blog post

– Jepson.

– Yep. They’ve been pushing a lot on round work flows and you know how we love work flows.

– I know.

– I love work flows.

– [Ian] I read this when I got the email notification. It was actually really good.

– [Craig] I think the message from this more generally is you can do anything with work flows. That’s where we’re getting to the point where when someone has a question how do I do this? It’s not a standard feature. It’s like, well, my go-to is I’m pretty sure we can work out how to do that in a work flow. So, this is a good article in this. In this case, territories and assigning them, rotation. So a good post so just go through and get an insight into that.

– [Ian] All right, onto the HubSpot gotcha of the week Craig and this has to do with the side effects of merging contacts. Now, I’m liking this feature in HubSpot, right? And been getting notifications and my customers are getting confused. They’re like what is this merging contacts stuff? Anyway, we’re gonna tell you that there is a gotcha to this that would happen, especially if you’re running work flows on the backend that rely on contact properties. There are things that get triggered when you merge work flows. So, tell us more, Craig.

– [Craig] Well, I almost wanna say with work flows after just talking about how awesome they are, as we do every episode, it’s kind of like with great power comes great responsibility, so to speak. Work flows, they can be very powerful but they can also have gotchas like this. Now, we actually mentioned this way back I think at the start of the year in episode 149.

– [Ian] Yes, we did.

– [Craig] Where we talked about merging contacts. and basically this side effect that many people I don’t think are aware of. And what it is, let’s say you’ve got contact A and you’re gonna merge it into contact B. Now contact B, let’s say they signed up on the site, they filled in a form and then it sent some thank you emails, put them in a nurture, right? Let’s say they did that a year ago, so that’s contact B and that’s the one you’re merging into. Now contact A might just be a variation of their email address and you happen to notice it because you get one of those nice notifications from HubSpot, thanks for sending those out. So you go along, you go right, I’ll just put HubSpot contact A into B, so you merge it. Bang, suddenly all those work flows that contact B has already been through get triggered again for contact A. And so, this can be quite puzzling, quite distressing for clients, as well. It’s like right, well, how did this happen? Well, here’s the side effect. And you know what? A slight criticism of HubSpot for this ’cause even though they’ve got a support article that talks about potential downsides and we’ve got that linked in the show notes. When they send these emails out saying you’ve got all these contacts to merge and they have that list, they don’t make it clear. There might be a little message, you know, oh be aware that there could be these effects, but I actually think this is a big gotcha and it’s causing confusion for clients and I think it’s gonna be a big problem that HubSpot’s got on their hands. Anyway, how do you get around it? Which, of course, is the key. Now, we’ve got a bit of a workaround and we went through this back in episode 149 and it involves creating exclusion lists. And one of the things you might know in work flows, is you can have exclusion lists or suppression lists that basically if someone is in one of these exclusion lists they don’t go through the work flow. And we have this process with the clients. We have this whole process where if we’re gonna merge contacts, we put those contacts into an exclusion list so that they don’t get triggered into work flows. Or if they do, they’re just excluded from work flow. We put the into those exclusion lists, we then merge the contacts and then we take those contacts out of the exclusion lists. Well, the resulting, finalized contact list. And that’s the way you get around it, so it’s quite manual. You actually have to go through all your contacts and put them in these exclusions lists, then remember to take them out in order to stop this side effect of the work flows. Now, that’s the workaround at the moment. I hope HubSpot comes up with a better kind of option. For example, what I’d love is just when you merge and option that says do not trigger any work flows. As simple as that. That’s really what they need. I think they’ll bring that out ’cause I think there’s gonna be a problem for clients.

– Yes.

– Anyway, that’s the gotcha and that’s the workaround at the moment. Find us in episode 149 shot to for more details on that.

– [Ian] Excellent. Now onto our marketing tip of the week, Craig. No more mixed http and https content messages and Chrome will block http content. So this, listeners, is sites that haven’t been transitioned to a secure… have a security certificate and are secure. And within that, there’s obviously images and other assets that get caught, so previously people might’ve know of this as mixed content warnings where the site might actually be secure but it’s calling as if it’s on an insecure server. And what Chrome does is it basically highlights to you and says oh this is unsafe. Do you wanna proceed, right? So, what have they done, Craig?

– [Craig] Well, this is in an upcoming release. What they’re going to do is instead of just giving warnings they’re just gonna block that resource. Your page loads and let’s say there’s an insecure http resource–

– Yeah, like an image, yeah.

– They just won’t show it. It’ll just be kind of rendered out, yeah.

– [Ian] Rendered out, yeah.

– [Craig] Yeah, so that there’s no chance.

– [Ian] so, I mean, this is really interesting. I’ll tell you why. Because people that haven’t gone through the due diligence and the process of upgrading to a secure site properly are gonna have this problem. Like I’m only telling you this because we have gone through a process with customers over the last few years where we’ve actually gone through, checked all the mixed content warnings, made sure that everything’s being called correctly. And then there are are other people that we’ve dealt with who are just like oh, no, don’t worry, just apply the certificate, don’t worry about it. It’ll all be good. These are the people that are gonna suffer very soon when it comes to these–

– [Craig] Yeah, look and I think it depends on the hosting and also plugins, like in WordPress you can get plugins that force all the resources. One of the things I will say about this upcoming chrome release is that they’re gonna be smart about it. So, they’re going to, let’s say it’s just an http image, so non secure, they will check the https version and if it’s there, that’ll load that instead. So, it’s doing some smarts in the background. Thanks Chrome, that’s actually a good thing. But, if they can’t find the secure, bang, they’re just gonna leave it out.

– [Ian] First thing, make sure you’ve got a security certificate. Second, once you’ve done that check for mixed content warnings and then go through appropriate remediation to get all of that fixed before this rolls out so you don’t get affected. All right, Craig, onto our insight of the week. A little a, what do I call? Our maxim. Test and measure that we always talk about. And thinking of Chris, we just spoke to Chris–

– [Craig] Chris Mottram, our producer who is helping us test and measure to get our audio quality even better. Thanks, Chris.

– [Ian] And this is something that you were telling me over lunch which totally bypassed me, but metrics on videos in Facebook are totally wrong.

– [Craig] That’s right. So let me give you a bit of the background to this just quickly because the background’s interesting but, I guess, the ramifications of it are even more important. So, this all goes back a couple years to when Facebook was rolling out video and are giving stats on average video view time, but they calculated it incorrectly. And I think this goes back to starting in 2015 and the reason it’s came to light is ’cause there was a class action or legal action actually taken against Facebook in 2016 about them incorrectly reporting the stats. Now, just quickly what they had done is in terms of calculating average view time, they were taking all the time that it was viewed and then instead of dividing by the total number of people who might have just started watching. Remember how the videos used to auto play just starting as you were scrolling through? They only divided it by the number of people who were actually called a viewer. So, the kinds of people that watched for at least three seconds or four seconds count as a view. The difference is, if you only divided by that smaller number of people, the average view time looks really high. Whereas if it was divided by actually the number of people that indirectly just started it, then it was must lower. So the point is that their numbers or the metrics were inflated by well, multiples up to, and some people claim 800%, et cetera. So, that’s all the background. Now, that all started in 2016. It’s all come out now recently because it’s part of that ongoing legal action. They’ve had access to internal Facebook communication. Like hundreds and hundreds of pages of emails and so forth. And it turns out, Facebook knew about this for more than a year before they did anything about it. Even though, they’re saying oh sorry, small calculation error. Yeah, we fixed it, minimal effect, right? What’s coming out now is that it was massively overestimated or overinflated numbers and they knew about it for ages. They did nothing about it and they didn’t bother. It wasn’t a concern, right? Okay, so that’s the history. What’s the ramifications of that? The ramifications are lots of things. First of all, people were moving ad budgets from other platforms onto Facebook because you remember a couple years ago everyone’s all like oh video, video is the future, right? And, of course, it is but the numbers on Facebook seemed so good and so cheap, as a result that people were pushing whole budgets away from, say, YouTube and other platforms onto Facebook. And the problem is because the numbers were inflated, they weren’t getting the results they expected. Maybe you’re expecting similar results to what you get on YouTube but it’s not happening on Facebook, et cetera. So, there’s been whole, I guess, marketing budgets pushed into a platform or a medium, which has been false. Like, in fact, not only a mistake, but you could actually say deliberately withheld. So, here comes the question ’cause we are always saying test and measure. How do we test and measure if we can’t actually measure accurately? If we can’t be confident? So that’s what I wanna chat about today in this insight. So, but before we go on, I’ve spoken for a bit there. Did you wanna make any comments about that and maybe some action items from your point of view before I, yeah, go on a bit?

– [Ian] Yes, so I think one of the actions here is we all know that, especially where we work within HubSpot, there’s a little bit of leaks in there. We also always put in the Google Analytics so we have a second point of reference. Now, it might not always be exactly 100% because people measure things differently in terms of what’s the duration that this measurement takes into account before it actually gets measured, which can be different, so give me your different results. But, regardless to say, there are all these different points or analytics packages that we can use to collect data. So if you’re using a particular package to collect data about your videos, then you should be able to tell is the video playback, or the points at which people are dropping off or playing, is it that the same as what’s being reported? That’s essentially what I wanted to say, so like having a second point of reference.

– [Craig] Actually, you’ve highlighted one thing, which is you wanna get them off Facebook onto your site in some point. So, one of the keys to coming around this is not only engagement but actually conversion stats, so you get them to your site. So, you might have a Facebook video but the call to action is to get them to your site so that you can actually compare whether it’s working. So for all those people who moved away from YouTube to Facebook, there should have been an end result, which was is it actually building audiences that drive people to your website, or to some other conversion action, not just an engagement metric. However, your point around having multiple analytics packages is perfect because there’s multiple video platforms. So another, I guess, takeaway from this is don’t just choose one channel and solely put all your budget there. You might start with one channel but then you gotta grow it out. So for example, if you’re running a number of videos on Facebook, run them on YouTube, run them on LinkedIn, run them on twitter. Run them on various platforms and check across each because if Facebook is looking ridiculously good in terms of engagement, perhaps something’s wrong. And this could be any of the other platforms you know, it could be Twitter in the future, it could be LinkedIn, who knows? THey’re probably all gonna have problems, but at least by having multiple platforms that you’re using you can actually compare and work out some anomalies. But then, the main takeaway is you’ve gotta get them back to a conversion action. And by conversion action, we’re ultimately talking about getting an email address. If you can get that, that’s I guess, the goal at the end to compare across the channels.

– [Ian] All right, Craig, on top podcast of the week and this is a business casual podcast from Morning Brew. And Morning Brew is one of the probably of the emails we read every day.

– [Craig] I love this, in terms of a daily email newsletter. We’ve talked about this before. There’s not many I read every day.

– That’s right.

– Morning Brew’s one of them.

– [Ian] Anyway, they’ve got a great podcast and they’ve been interviewing some really interesting people so I would encourage you to listen to it. It just broadens your horizon on the different things people are out there doing and I love it.

– [Craig] Isn’t it interesting how these, we’ll call them news sites, are moving into other mediums? So, Morning Brew, moving away. Not away, but complimenting an email newsletter, which is what they’re famous for, with a podcast. I’m not sure where it was, Netflix maybe the other day, but New York Times, of course, and they have these little video documentaries. I think it’s called “15 Minutes.” Little stories by the New York Times turning what is a written piece into a video piece. And they’re all really good. So yeah, we’re seeing this move into other mediums.

– [Ian] All right, now we’ve got a couple of resources of the week, Craig. Ask Google webmasters, there was a question in there. Is it a problem if my page has multiple hitting one tags? And the answer is–

– The answer’s no. This actually came as a surprise to me ’cause as a longtime SEO, it’s always been look, just trying to have one H1, hitting one, that’s a hitting one, H1. I only have one H1 tag on your site and there still is good reason to do it ’cause Google looks at it as a sign of what this page–

– Hierarchy, right?

– Yeah, hierarchy. But yeah, Google is like no, have as many as you want, that’s fine, if it highlights important things, that’s good. Use it for readability. So we’ve got John Muir from Google Little Webmaster Hangout talking about that in the show notes.

– [Ian] Yeah, and listeners if you don’t know about John Muir and those hangouts that he does, I encourage you If you’re not in your business doing this, share this with the person that is. Because I think there’s some really good information in there that you can often use and pick up. And often a lot of myths get dispelled and what we often hear out there in the marketplace. If you listen to the source and go, oh, hang on, that’s just rubbish. You don’t have to worry about it, right? You don’t have to waste your time thinking about it.

– [Craig] Well, look, let me put a caveat on that. ‘Cause, you know, I’m always cynical about Google.

– [Ian] Yes.

– [Craig] When they give guidance like this, I’m like yeah, okay, that’s fine. But when they give some other guidance, sometimes, I’m like yeah, well, that seems to work well for Google, maybe not for people. Always be running ads on your brand. It’s like yeah, okay, so, I don’t know if that’s the best advice from Google, but yeah.

– [Ian] Anyway, test and measure, I say.

– [Craig] Test and measure.

– [Ian] All right, the quote of the week, Craig.

– [Craig] Okay, so why’d you pick this?

– [Ian] Well, I picked this because you gave me a book. It’s called “The Suit Book: Everything “You Need to Know about Wearing a Suit” by Clare Sheng. And one of the quotes in this book was “Dressing well is a form of good manners.” And it’s from Tom Ford. Now you’ve read this book and you really liked this book.

– [Craig] I really liked this book and and listeners, I’ll just say like I’m your typical nerdy geek, I dress badly… Well badly, I just, I dress comfortably.

– [Ian] Craig, let’s put it this way. You dress comfortably and every since I’ve know you, you have like this, let me say it, you’ve got five shirts that are all the same. But you probably have more, right?

– [Craig] I have 10 shirts.

– [Ian] 10 shirts that are all the same. He’s got 10 T-shirts that are all the same. He’s got three pairs of shoes that are all the same. So, if that’s any indication–

– [Craig] Look, It’s just efficiency. It’s easy. I’m not gonna pretend I’m Barack Obama or Zuckerberg, I’m so busy that it solves decisions. It’s just like it’s easy and it’s comfortable, right? So I’ve been like this anyway. I’m trying to dress better. Can you believe this?

– That’s right.

– I’m trying to lift my game.

– It’s good, I’m impressed.

– We’ll see how it goes.

– [Ian] So far, Craig has gone with a new pair of R.M. Williams. I’m really excited about that.

– [Craig] I’m trying to wear better shoes, better pants, I’m actually getting things tailored now. I don’t know. But anyways, we’ll see how it goes. Actually, why are we telling the listeners this? I don’t know if they need to know this but anyway, this book had an impact. Oh, I know what I was gonna say. ‘Cause this book had an impact on me because we were chatting before, ignorance is bliss.

– [Ian] That’s exactly right.

– [Craig] After reading this how to dress well, now I’m actually like oh my gosh. I’m badly dressed and I notice it all the time, and so ignorance was bliss when I didn’t know. Oh well, I’m trying to improve.

– [Ian] There we go, listeners. Now, there are a couple of bonus links in this show so I encourage you to check it out. What else can I say?

– [Craig] Test and measure.

– [Ian] Test and measure. Well Craig, until next time.

– [Craig] Catch ya later, Ian.

– [Ian] Thank you for listening to this episode of HubShots. For show notes, resources, HubSpot news including practical strategies you can implement, visit us as